No more cheesey sith.

XI33 · 04-11-2006, 05:47 PM

Two of my few problems with the kotor series is the fact that the sith are so lame and childish and there are very few times to be cunning as the sith. I mean you cant be a cunning sith like kreia, palpatine and dooku, you can only be a brute like Anakin, Maul and Sion. There should be more dialouge options for using force persuade to manipulate people to do your dirty work, give you somthing and turn them to the dark side. This would realy cut down on the corney factor of the game and give a real sense of true evil. No more of this i dont like you. DIE!!. No more of these lame sith dudes walking around killing people for fun, like mekel and that lame ex-sith teacher in kotor1. QUOTE I do enjoy torturing these wanna be recruits, its great fun. I think ill go for some dinner, it'll be fun to think of them while im gorging my self. END QUOTE. Crap like that is realy common in kotor, do you realy think any real bad guys act like that? its almost like he knows hes evil. Evil people dont think their evil they think their good. Stuff like that realy needs to be fixed for the next game.

nas77 · 04-11-2006, 05:57 PM

I agree that some of the DS PC's lines are cheesy, and there could be some more manipulative dialogue options. But some cheese I found to be fine, especially with Mekel etc. I mean they're arrogant, cocky young Sith students so it would seem perfectly fine for them to act evil and know it.

Though I gotta say the cheesiest bit of villainy in KOTOR is Malak's pantomime hand-on-belly-laugh. If he could still grow one I'm sure he'd be twiddling his mustache.

XI33 · 04-11-2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nas77

I agree that some of the DS PC's lines are cheesy, and there could be some more manipulative dialogue options. But some cheese I found to be fine, especially with Mekel etc. I mean they're arrogant, cocky young Sith students so it would seem perfectly fine for them to act evil and know it.

Though I gotta say the cheesiest bit of villainy in KOTOR is Malak's pantomime hand-on-belly-laugh. If he could still grow one I'm sure he'd be twiddling his mustache.

Yeah mekel's ok but hes still a little on the retarded side but that ex-sithteacher, omg he gave me a friggin headake. The sith arn't supposed to think their evil, they can be cocky and arrogant but nobody joins an organisation because they want to be evil, its just stupid.

Maverick5770 · 04-11-2006, 10:05 PM

I agree that some of the sith were a bit cheesy, there should be some of the good old
"Mwahahah, Now I shall kill you" but there should be some sith that just attack you, without talking like "Lord Malak was most displeased when he learned you had escaped Taris alive" but just turn on saber, attempt to kill him, screw the talking.

RaV™ · 04-11-2006, 10:18 PM

Shoot first ask questions later is what I prefer.

Det. Bart Lasiter · 04-11-2006, 10:22 PM

The Sith always seemed rather quiet to me. That's what happens after you kill them.

†Saint_Killa† · 04-12-2006, 12:54 AM

Sith are like saints. I wanna kill'em to shut them up and stop manipulating people.

Ben_Walker · 04-12-2006, 03:06 AM

There's a good point there about Malak's lackies Dark Jedi, at least give those ones seperate lines instead of both of them saying "Lord Malak was most displeased... yadda yadda yadda" and I think Sith should see themselves more as powerful warriors cleasning the galaxy of the weak(even though that seems like Yuuzhan Vong idealogy) than the evil guys.

**Jae Onasi** · 04-12-2006, 10:38 AM

I'd like the bosses to be a little more complex, but I'm OK with stupid cheesy Sith that I whoop up on on my way to the bosses.

Vibro · 04-12-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XI33

Two of my few problems with the kotor series is the fact that the sith are so lame and childish and there are very few times to be cunning as the sith. I mean you cant be a cunning sith like kreia, palpatine and dooku, you can only be a brute like Anakin, Maul and Sion. There should be more dialouge options for using force persuade to manipulate people to do your dirty work, give you somthing and turn them to the dark side. This would realy cut down on the corney factor of the game and give a real sense of true evil. No more of this i dont like you. DIE!!. No more of these lame sith dudes walking around killing people for fun, like mekel and that lame ex-sith teacher in kotor1. QUOTE I do enjoy torturing these wanna be recruits, its great fun. I think ill go for some dinner, it'll be fun to think of them while im gorging my self. END QUOTE. Crap like that is realy common in kotor, do you realy think any real bad guys act like that? its almost like he knows hes evil. Evil people dont think their evil they think their good. Stuff like that realy needs to be fixed for the next game.

I fully agree.

**Prime** · 04-12-2006, 11:17 AM

The Sith of this era were not cunning. They sought open conquest. It wasn't until after the Battle of Ruusan that the Sith directly changed their ways to what we see in the films.

Clone L68362 · 04-12-2006, 07:54 PM

While I definitely would like a better option to go DS than

"Hand over the credits and you won't get hurt."

"Just kidding! Hahaha!"

I hope they keep options like this for the unimportant parts, because how manipulative do you have to be if you want a guys credits?

vader815 · 04-12-2006, 09:17 PM

Out of the 4 siths we've had Malak was the only good Sith. We knew nothing of Nihilus, Kreia's sudden change to the dark side was completely un called for, and Sion (I think he goes without saying). Malak had a background and an agenda which the whole game was based on, while TSL's game story had nothing what so every to do with the story, at all. What we need is a single Sith (not two or more), whose agenda is related to the player's agenda (common goal that is directly related), and has a mysteryous relation to the character.

XI33 · 04-13-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vader815

Out of the 4 siths we've had Malak was the only good Sith. We knew nothing of Nihilus, Kreia's sudden change to the dark side was completely un called for, and Sion (I think he goes without saying). Malak had a background and an agenda which the whole game was based on, while TSL's game story had nothing what so every to do with the story, at all. What we need is a single Sith (not two or more), whose agenda is related to the player's agenda (common goal that is directly related), and has a mysteryous relation to the character.

I definatley agree.

**Prime** · 04-13-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vader815

Kreia's sudden change to the dark side was completely un called for

What was sudden about it?

Henz · 04-13-2006, 03:33 PM

I agree. The Sith master who is so clever and skilled to become so powerful should act like it.

I liked Nihilus at first. Looked really important and dangerous... 'til I killed him in a heartbeat.

Mister Chief · 04-15-2006, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prime

What was sudden about it?

Yeah, I saw it coming a mile away. Maybe put more backstory there and you are good.

KyleOfHarpenden · 04-15-2006, 11:33 AM

well malak had the best story but was a pushover, Trayer dropped to many hints and was weak(FORCE CRUSH!) Sion just wouldent die and Nihilus had no sence,but like Malak they do need a bit m0ore of a back bone if u know what i mean Nihilus should have ruled the galaxy if he wasnt so hungry for like souls(so y not take down the whole galaxy there like 200000000 more out there) they all need more story but a sith who twists the whole galaxy round his finger would be cool like revan did in a way by the mandalorian wars.

ScieX · 04-15-2006, 01:32 PM

the thing is that nihilus was the coolest Sith in KOTOR II but he was seldom in it. the only scenes he was in were:

the betrayal scene
the scene when he tells visas to kill the Exile
and the final scene where you kill him

he had the potential to be the coolest sith in the game if they had tied him into the plot. but then again... what was the plot in KOTOR II??

DarthZayne · 04-15-2006, 08:51 PM

bah i dont agree.

i like "the way of the sith" , they realy should make a book with that title :P

anyway i love the way maul is . i Read the comic's
SW darth maul 1 to 4 . you learn lots more about him .

Hes ruthless , and he have a hunger wiout limit . i love him.
Anyway you said you like manipulator's then you should
Read

Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Golden Age of the Sith #0 (of 5)
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Golden Age of the Sith #1 (of 5)
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Golden Age of the Sith #2 (of 5)
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Golden Age of the Sith #3 (of 5)
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Golden Age of the Sith #4 (of 5)
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Golden Age of the Sith #5 (of 5)

Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Fall of the Sith Empire #1 (of 5)
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Fall of the Sith Empire #2 (of 5)
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Fall of the Sith Empire #3 (of 5)
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Fall of the Sith Empire #4 (of 5)
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi - The Fall of the Sith Empire #5 (of 5)

its about Naga Sadow , he was a pure Sith ( species )
he was the stronger of all sith.
and yeah he hes manipulting.

†Saint_Killa† · 04-15-2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xl33

Two of my few problems with the kotor series is the fact that the sith are so lame and childish and there are very few times to be cunning as the sith. I mean you cant be a cunning sith like kreia, palpatine and dooku, you can only be a brute like Anakin, Maul and Sion. There should be more dialouge options for using force persuade to manipulate people to do your dirty work, give you somthing and turn them to the dark side. This would realy cut down on the corney factor of the game and give a real sense of true evil. No more of this i dont like you. DIE!!. No more of these lame sith dudes walking around killing people for fun, like mekel and that lame ex-sith teacher in kotor1. QUOTE I do enjoy torturing these wanna be recruits, its great fun. I think ill go for some dinner, it'll be fun to think of them while im gorging my self. END QUOTE. Crap like that is realy common in kotor, do you realy think any real bad guys act like that? its almost like he knows hes evil. Evil people dont think their evil they think their good. Stuff like that realy needs to be fixed for the next game.

You said every single wrongs about sith in the game. Totally agree.

Curse · 04-17-2006, 07:44 AM

The Sith Lords did have their own agenda, IMO. You just have to dig deep.

Regarding the "cheesy sith": The Sith were indeed "brutes" in K1. Malak is a good example. Of the 2, Revan and Malak, Malak was the rash one, Revan was the cunning and intelligent one. (it is mentioned, in K1, that it was Revan's superior tactics that led to victory against the mandalorians.) You want the games to have more "Revans" and less "Malaks"?

Dark Lord Revan · 04-22-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone L68362

While I definitely would like a better option to go DS than

"Hand over the credits and you won't get hurt."

"Just kidding! Hahaha!"

I hope they keep options like this for the unimportant parts, because how manipulative do you have to be if you want a guys credits?

Amen to that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henz

I agree. The Sith master who is so clever and skilled to become so powerful should act like it.

I liked Nihilus at first. Looked really important and dangerous... 'til I killed him in a heartbeat.

same

tbl1 · 04-23-2006, 12:51 AM

The worst TSL DS dialogue option. "You, dead"

**JediMaster12** · 04-23-2006, 01:56 AM

I would like to see a healthy balance of the two types. Definitely the manipulators and definitely the brutes. In a way, they balance each other out and it makes for an interesting ride.

Darth InSidious · 04-23-2006, 08:42 AM

Oh, come on! Star Wars *is* cheesy bad guys. Does the line "If you will not be turned...You will die!" ring any bells? Or "At last we shall have our revenge. At last we shall reveal ourselves to the Jedi."?

aerowars617 · 04-26-2006, 03:41 PM

I agree with a balance, there should be more examples like when giving that sith student the wrong sword in Ajunta Pauls tomb. That was a good cunning way to get him killed without raising a finger, and allowing him to die in a more satisfying way.

Jasper_Kazai · 04-26-2006, 03:44 PM

I liked the lame "I am the Dark Lord! I kill you now!" lines, but since I was doing Light side, I had to refrain from using them. Now, however, I'm going to go through and use them. But, yeah, they do lack in true evilness.

Lantzen · 04-26-2006, 04:09 PM

Im with JediMaster, i would like some brute dialougs, and some manipulations dialougs. In some of the places in TSL they have both, but on the most it's just the brute

Darth Manus · 04-30-2006, 08:06 PM

Well, the usual Sith mentality demonstrated in the games is "I'll do it because I can.", which is basically amoral use of power for selfish gain. Their only code of conduct is the law of the strongest. The Sith seen in KOTOR are mostly greedy, violent, arrogant and treacherous, Like Ajunta Pall said, that proved to be their downfall, since they turned on each other and led themselves to ruin.

So you basically see:

KOTOR: Sith apprentices and instructors on Korriban who go around using their power against random people, acting all though while they're mostly nothing more than thugs. Then you see one or two manipulative students who either try to fool you into helping them so they can get all the credit, or threaten you like imbeciles. Then you have the top ranks of the academy, who basically spend their time plotting against each other. You also see the trios of Dark Jedi that pop up on several worlds, but all they do is spot the usual line and get killed. Oh, and there's Bandon, who basically acts like a kid on a power trip, murdering people randomly just for the heck of it. All that arrogance was only a pitiful attempt at hiding his inferiority.

KOTOR II: You see a lot of Sith assassins who don't say a word, just pop up and try to kill you. And then there's Sion, Traya and Nihilus. Sion is basically the usual "kill kill kill" type, obsessed with destroying the Jedi. Traya is the most intelligent of the bunch, with a whole agenda of her own, and she manages to get the other two right where she wants them. As for Nihilus, he could be interesting, but seems to be little more than a mindless devourer of worlds.

dede_frost · 05-01-2006, 01:32 AM

Yeah... I agree, specially with the thing about the dark side options. In KOTOR and TSL it seems that most of the DS options are for crazy sicopaths (did I spell that right?) obsessed with killing random people.

xides · 05-15-2006, 10:12 PM

But look at Nihilus, the only thing he cairs about is consuming worlds, thats a little crazy...

aerowars617 · 05-16-2006, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xides

But look at Nihilus, the only thing he cairs about is consuming worlds, thats a little crazy...

he dosnt really care for it, its what he has to do to prevent himself from "really" dying, since he is already dead according to kriea. Its like us eating food. If we dont eat, we die. Same applies to him, only he *feeds* on worlds, not pizzas