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Old 04-27-2006, 04:58 PM   #41
Kryllith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
To follow on from Alien, take a look at MI2, Elaine and Herman were both in the game for very short amounts of time, each playing their part and then dissapearing until needed again. As far as I can tell, those were the only chararcters "re-used" from the first game (oh, okay, and LeChuck, but he's a given, just like Guybrush is) and MI2 still stands as most fans favorite out of the entire series.
Don't forget the 3-Pirates with the rat and Stan (who was in all four).
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Old 04-27-2006, 05:01 PM   #42
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Fair do's, but Stans more of a running joke than anything else (we need someone to sell something, we have stan) and the 3 Pirates were very short lived in the first one, this was really just their big break, I hear they're doing broadway now.

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Old 04-27-2006, 06:45 PM   #43
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Despite some of my opinions on EMI, I was always impressed that they kept Stan's incredible suit jacket.


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Old 04-27-2006, 06:49 PM   #44
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I could never quite decide on whether that was an extremely easy effect or an extremely hard one, but I was impressed either way.

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Old 04-28-2006, 04:12 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Thrik
Largo, if you're going to get all anal and start picking out small typos in people's posts (which is in itself laughable, considering your own examples of writing in this thread, as well as generally annoying), then at least try to not ignore genuine points that are made in the same posts.
It's comparable to arguing with a brick wall
Thirk please read before pointing the finger I was not the one who was picking on peoples typos that was alien. Firstly I am not an annoying what I said About MI3 might annoy those who’s favourite game is MI3 but that was the whole reason why I said “I did say if MI3 is your favorite game in the series you wont like what I say about MI3 if you do not want read what I think of MI3 then don’t read” I am one of the most polite people you will meet in these forums I live and breath Monkey Island I might annoy people accidentally.

Anyway the whole point of this post is to discus MI4 and do we think it was the game that ruined the series my favorite game is M1 and MI2 and I also like MI4 but I didn’t like MI3 as much as the others and so I think MI3 was the worst of them all and I gave all my reasons for this. Alien did not like my comments on MI3 and instead of putting his point in a civilized manor he put his point across like he usually in all the other posts he briefly reads what you say and then he says what he wants to say and picks out all the typos calls you a few names and swears. He didn’t like what I said called me silly names and sweared at me. I told him he doesn’t need to swear to get his point across because there is not need for that in these forums. Thirk if you read the quotes below.

Originally Posted by Alien426
Quote:
If only you would put more emphasis on mastering the English language and less time on obsessing about 'bad words'
In the same post Alien said this

Originally Posted by Alien426
Quote:
No, that's not what you said. By "ommitting" CMI you completely altered the sentences meaning.
Originally Posted by Largo La grande
Quote:
Alien you should try mastering English yourself first try practicing how to spell the big words correctly because in your statement above your spelt Omitting incorrectly “Omitting” is one two T’s
Now I admit I am not the greatest speller but I try my best like everyone else around here. Now I am sure you agree alien has no right telling me I should try mastering the English language before telling him not to swear and this is the reason why I corrected him on his spelling because he totally contradicted what he said by spelling Omitting wrong. He did not like me correcting him because he knows it made everyone see he had just made an idiot of himself and if you look at his quote below you will see for yourself how foul mouthed he is.

Originally Posted by Alien426
Quote:
Secondly, you get all ecstatic because I spelled one fúcking word wrong? One measly fúcking, insignificant letter too much?! English is not even my first language and I'm better at getting my point across than you.
Thirk I Am a true Monkey Island Fan he is the one who is only around here to ignite arguments also I never said Murray was not in MI1 or MI2 because he was in all of the games. I was telling Alien Murray was in all the MI games because he said Murray was a new character in MI3 in his quote below..

Originally Posted by Alien426
Quote:
But the new characters in CMI just worked. They were likable and had depth and did fit in the MI settingJust think about them: Haggis, Edward, Bill, Murray (a very popular character), Kenny (great music!), Madame Xima, Capt. Rottingham...
Anyway alien is known in these forums for his bad attitude and I am going to do what everyone else in this forum who has been annoyed by him in does. I am going to show him the finger and ignore him so from now on he doesn’t exist. I do not want to waste my time talking to him I am only interested in talking about Monkey Island.



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Old 04-28-2006, 04:15 PM   #46
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Third times a charm, eh Largo?

Could I just ask, exactly where in Monkey Island 1 and 2 was Murray. Obviously not being as big a Monkey Island fan as you so obviously are, I was wondering where I'd slipped up because I can't for the life of me find him.

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Old 04-28-2006, 10:27 PM   #47
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Largo, you seriously need to start cutting down how much you say; life's too short for me to be reading four pages of text with a point that could have been said in a few sentences.

Anyway, my main point was that you are completely ignoring people's arguments, and seem to just not be taking in anything that's said at all. A perfect example is your Murray comment: you have been told multiple times now that Murray was not in Monkey Island 1 or 2, and yet you are somehow managing to completely ignore it. Once again: Murray was not in Monkey Island 1 or 2.

Do you see what I mean by “arguing with a brick wall” now? You've been directly asked to explain where you think Murray was, and you just... haven't. This complete lacking of ability on your part to respond to people's arguments just makes the whole debate thoroughly tedious.


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Old 04-29-2006, 03:41 AM   #48
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Wow, i don't come on here for 3 days and look whats happened. I'll start with points about MI i think...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien426
You see that's where I disagree. And your insistance just played into my hands.

Did EMI have a lot of characters from previous games? Yes, certainly. Elaine, Herman, LeChuck, Carla, Otis, Jojo (kinda), Murray, Voodoo Lady...
Did the fans feel it was a worthy part of the series? No.

They missed a lot of the stuff that was just there in the other games. You can't throw all the stuff that has already been in there into a new game and expect it to be as much as the others. EMI had no mojo. It was what suits do when they want money. Milk the franchise. But they often forget this one ingredient that Neill nailed in his post: Love.

You can tell the developers to make a Monkey Island game. They can look at the art style and try to translate it to 3D (because 3D is so hip). Take old characters and put them there. Take the references to modern life and bloat them up very crudely. If they are just using formulas there will be something important missing.
My point is, that there are many key elements to creating a proper MI game. The characters is just one of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
To follow on from Alien, take a look at MI2, Elaine and Herman were both in the game for very short amounts of time, each playing their part and then dissapearing until needed again. As far as I can tell, those were the only chararcters "re-used" from the first game (oh, okay, and LeChuck, but he's a given, just like Guybrush is) and MI2 still stands as most fans favorite out of the entire series.
Okay, i think this is where my argument f*cks up.. I didn't think about that. But, the problem is, i don't see MI2 as the second game. I see it as the first, along with MI1. Wierd, i know. I think it's how i played the game, side-by-side in a sort of way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
Yes, it was nice to see old characters in MI4, but I found it a lot more fun meeting all the new characters in MI3 than "catching up" with old characters in MI4. In a sense, it made MI3 that much more accessible to people who'd never played an MI game (the amount of times people have come here saying they played COMI and absolutely loved it, "now where can I get my hands on the first 2?") as they don't need a whole load of prior knowledge of the previous games just so they can enjoy it as much.
Part of me would agree. I'd hate a game which just featured MI1 / 2 characters. But certain ones i feel are essential to the feel of a MI game. And also others. Like it was nice seeing Carla, Otis and Meethook again. And the Men of Low Moral Fiber in the second. I think to have the odd firmiliar face is good but not to litter the place with old characters.



Now, i would like to point something out. This is not an english exam. We are not judging people's posts by their english skills, but by there MI content. That's why we're here, to discuss Monkey Island. So, please, shut up about damn grammar skills etc. It honestly makes you look pathetic and shows everyone that you have run out of relevant points to argue with and are scraping the barrel so to speak so you don't look like a fool. Too much pride are in people. Accept that sometimes you are wrong instead of bringing up irrelevant points...
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Old 04-29-2006, 05:19 AM   #49
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Murry is appranetly in all the MI games I cant remeber were it was I read this Im sure It was on the world of MI or Amiga Power magazine. Aprently they put him in all the games in some way or another he did not have a part in MI1 or MI2 but he is apparently in MI1 and MI2. Maybe he is one of the pirates in the Scumm bar on MI1 or a skull someowere in the game. I reakon in MI2 in woodtick he is the skull on the shelf in the voodo ladys shop but maybe that is not his skull. The theroy he made his debut as a pirate in the scumm bar sounds more intrsting because it would fit perfectly with the skull and bones of one of the pirates floating in the water that ask guybrush to pass him one of his bones at the begining of MI3. Murry also tell you how he got to be the host of planet threepwood in MI3 maybe he was somone elses. Anyway untill Gilbert himself and not amiga power magazine whos word I accept highly. However without gilbert we can not for sure find out if this is true and it will remain one of the many secrets we will never know about much like the lost scenes, backgrounds, Puzzels and story that was cut out of the final versions of MI1 and MI2.


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Old 04-29-2006, 08:31 AM   #50
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Which pretty much puts Murray under the same heading as "The carpenter in MI2 is really Largo in disguise"

No really, that's just going a bit too far with the whole "reading too much into things" thing. Not everything had to be a secret or conspiricy. A random skull is probably just a random skull, Murray only became a character in MI3

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Old 04-29-2006, 12:05 PM   #51
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Largo, read these two articles:
http://www.scummbar.com/resources/ar...e&article=1007
http://www.scummbar.com/resources/ar...e&article=1008

Larry Ahern and Jonathon Ackley both confirm that they came up with the idea for Murray.


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Old 04-29-2006, 12:36 PM   #52
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Yes this is another one of those mysteries.Thats a intresting interview and I have already read that before. I belive it is possible they came up with the whole murray idea. But at the back of my mind I remeber the interview in amiga power magazine and what ron gilbert said. I think about Ron Gilberts files on Monkley Island he left behind it contained all his scripts for the Monkey Island series and future cripts, his charcter designs, Puzzles, secrets ect he was not alowed to keep it and it reamined the property of lucasarts. I think maybe they still had it back then and they would only be human to have a little peep to see all his fantastic ideas maybe they still have his files to this day we will never no but it would be very intresting to have a look and see if all these secrets, myths, and rumers actual are true.

Any way Ben I think you should do the honours I think a vote is required is monkey Island 4 the game that ruined the series give us all a choice of all 4 games and lets see who thinks what. Maybe createing a new post just for it will get more people to vote on it.


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Old 04-29-2006, 12:42 PM   #53
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Just simply create a new thread with the question "Which game ruined the MI series?" and two poll options, MI3, or MI4. I'd do it myself, but if you think Ben should do the honours then by all means...

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Old 04-29-2006, 12:49 PM   #54
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Have you even stepped back and taken a look at yourself, Largo? You act like Ron Gilbert is the only person capable of coming up with genuinely excellent characters. Not that I'm saying Ron isn't most respectable, but the idolisation of him and the subsequent ignoring of others' skill and efforts is a little lame.

Murray wasn't in MI1 or MI2. Why is that so hard to accept? One would think that the interview above would put an end to it, but no — you still dispute it. I guess the ease with which Murray could have slotted into MI1 and MI2 is a testament to how well designed he is, though.

To comment on an earlier post though, I agree, the characters in MI4 were largely pretty bad. I mean, some were alright, but the majority of them were just completely unmemorable and I didn't really enjoy talking to them at all. In fact, pretty much everybody on Jambalaya was rubbish, and only a select few on Lucre/Melee were any good.


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Old 04-29-2006, 02:40 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by counting_pine
Largo, read these two articles:
http://www.scummbar.com/resources/ar...e&article=1007
http://www.scummbar.com/resources/ar...e&article=1008

Larry Ahern and Jonathon Ackley both confirm that they came up with the idea for Murray.
In the first one, he says "Too much new stuff and people complain it isn’t enough like the previous game, too much old stuff and people will say you just ripped off the first game." That epitomizes my thoughts earlier regarding new characters. This goes for the whole game too. Like he points out.
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Old 04-29-2006, 02:51 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Largo LaGrande
Any way Ben I think you should do the honours I think a vote is required is monkey Island 4 the game that ruined the series give us all a choice of all 4 games and lets see who thinks what. Maybe createing a new post just for it will get more people to vote on it.
Um, okay sure. I'm gonna see if i can find how to make polls now...
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Old 04-29-2006, 03:05 PM   #57
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Just in case no-one else has realised (and you all have) but if Murray had been in either of the first two Monkey Island games he wouldn't have been a talking skull, he would have been a skeleton. His head was blown off at the start of The Curse Of Monkey Island when Guybrush fired a cannon at his rowboat. It's his arm you carry around in your inventory, isn't it?

So any vague generic skulls in either of the first two games can't be Murray, because he wasn't decapitated yet.

But it's all pointless because as we all know, Murray was created by The Curse Of Monkey Island team.


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Old 04-29-2006, 03:13 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Largo LaGrande
Anyway untill Gilbert himself and not amiga power magazine whos word I accept highly.
I want to know what an Amiga magazine is doing talking about a game that never even came out for the Amiga (granted, it was a sequel to a game released on the Amiga, but even still, why would they care enough to attempt to make the deduction that Murray was actually a secret character in the first two)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrik
Have you even stepped back and taken a look at yourself, Largo? You act like Ron Gilbert is the only person capable of coming up with genuinely excellent characters. Not that I'm saying Ron isn't most respectable, but the idolisation of him and the subsequent ignoring of others' skill and efforts is a little lame.
But... didn't he come up with such characters as Manny Calavera, Ben Throttle and Razputin?

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Old 04-29-2006, 03:15 PM   #59
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Just in case no-one else has realised (and you all have) but if Murray had been in either of the first two Monkey Island games he wouldn't have been a talking skull, he would have been a skeleton.
He could have been a human pirate.
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Old 04-30-2006, 10:44 PM   #60
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I am going to create a post just for MI secrets because they are intresting but there wil be some secrets that could be wrong I am much more intrested in other secrets.

There was a heap of stuff that Ron cut out of the MI1 and MI2 games it was either because he did not have the space or the time or other reasons. The mystery about Murray is that there was a heap of characters cut from MI1 one character was apparently a pirate that was surpose to debut in MI1 now weather he was origionaly called Murray we will never know but the rumour was he ws going to debut as a pirate in MI1 and eventualy meet his fate at the hands of guybrush.

He might have been called murray or something else but he was apparnetly left in the game but only as scenery. In MI1 he is belived to be one of the many pirates in the scumm bar. Then there was apparently a mystery about the Skeleton left in the jail cell next to guybrush on phatt island and it might have been murray I hope these storys are true storys like this really add magic to the games.

Maybe this is just storys there was alot of rumours about stuff they cut out back then but I hope not because stuff like this makes MI games magical.


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Old 05-01-2006, 12:12 AM   #61
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The skeleton in the jail cell is just dead. Not undead. All the pirates in the Scumm Bar were scared to go out pirating because of LeChuck. Doesn't sound like that would include Murray. You seem to be saying there was a character cut out from MI1 that was unnamed. Then the makers of CMI made Murray up and this becomes the unnamed pirate's name, meaning he was in the older games?
Quote:
There was lots of new and excellent characters in MI4 the
Starbuccaneer's Clerk, Deadeye Dave, Salty the Bait Shop Owner, Planet Threepwood Waitress, the teacher at pirate school, Manatee Operator.
Oh God, not them!


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Old 05-01-2006, 06:58 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mr Cheese
The skeleton in the jail cell is just dead. Not undead. All the pirates in the Scumm Bar were scared to go out pirating because of LeChuck. Doesn't sound like that would include Murray. You seem to be saying there was a character cut out that was unnamed. Then the makers of CMI made him up and this becomes the unnamed pirate's name, meaning he was in the older games? Oh God, not them!
Ha yea cheese not them
That could be right but it dosent explain what the deleted stroyline with the skeleton in the cell next to guybrush if the skelleton did have a storyline it would have been alive at some point if thats before it became a skeleton or as an undead skeleton in the end it just ended up as part of the puzzle with guybrush using its leg to get keys from dog. It would have been good if when guybrush said the leg bone conects to the thigh bone it jumped up and started singing and dancing the whole song. It makes you think all the same there was alot of story, puzzels, characters and scenes cut out of the game I would love to find out what was cut from the game.


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Old 05-03-2006, 07:42 PM   #63
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One last thing. It is fun to walk around a pirate town and talk to pirates about piratey things. It is not fun to walk around a bunch of themed restaraunts and talk to tourists about the nonexistence of pirates.


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Old 05-04-2006, 05:34 AM   #64
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I like cheese, but I love Mr Cheese. ;)

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Old 05-04-2006, 11:40 AM   #65
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One last thing. It is fun to walk around a pirate town and talk to pirates about piratey things. It is not fun to walk around a bunch of themed restaraunts and talk to tourists about the nonexistence of pirates.
I agree entirely. I think that's why i can't get into modern day themed point n clicks. I enjoy going into a past era that i'm alien to, like pirates, fantasy etc. Much more fun.
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Old 08-13-2006, 06:05 AM   #66
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I agree monkey island 4 was rubbish because tim didn't make it


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Old 08-13-2006, 06:44 AM   #67
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Tim also didn't make Doom, Beyond Good & Evil, Mafia, Aliens Versus Predator, Rainbow Six 3, Deus Ex, The Elder Scrolls 3, Gothic, Broken Sword, Splinter Cell, The Dig, Hitman, KOTOR, Fallout... So I guess all those games were rubbish?

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Old 08-13-2006, 09:06 AM   #68
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Broken Sword wasn't made by Tim?! I now renounce my allegiance to the block pushing blonde Indy!

But yeah, MI4 wasn't as good as the rest for a number of reasons, (the lack of dialogue from Tim being one of them) but it wasn't an overly awful game.

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Old 08-14-2006, 07:00 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshi
Broken Sword wasn't made by Tim?! I now renounce my allegiance to the block pushing blonde Indy!

But yeah, MI4 wasn't as good as the rest for a number of reasons, (the lack of dialogue from Tim being one of them) but it wasn't an overly awful game.
I think Monkey Island 4 was a very good Monkey Island game I actually liked it there was quite a lot of dialog because the dialog is spoken by the characters it probably dose not seem like there is not as much.

It dose not have as much dialog as Monkey Island 1 and 2 but there is still quite a bit.

I still think Monkey Island 3 was worst of the 4 Monkey Island games, mainly because after Monkey Island 2 myself mainly was really excited about what was going to happen in Monkey Island 3 but Monkey Island 3 did not continue from were Monkey Island 2 left off in a way I wanted it to and I think it could have been alot better.

Out of all the Monkey Island games my favourites would be in this order with 1 being my most favourite.

1. Monkey Island 2
2. Monkey Island 1
3. Monkey Island 4
4. Monkey Island 3


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Old 08-14-2006, 07:15 PM   #70
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Largo, can you please stop saying that? It's not that you don't have a right to say it, it's just that saying it over and over again in the same thread just makes you sound like a broken record and verges extremely close to spam.

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Old 08-14-2006, 07:41 PM   #71
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A guy whose named after a MI2 character's favorite game is MI2? I never woulda thought! It took me completely by surprise the eighth time he said it!


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Old 08-14-2006, 07:54 PM   #72
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I was surprised to get an email saying that there has been a reply to this post I thought we had finished this discussion. Were all repeating ourselves this is not the first post were we this has been disgust this type of post has been repeated lots of times over and over again and were going to keep giving the same opinion over and over again were just like the men of low moral fiber in Monkey Island 2. And this post should have ended by now anyway.


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Old 08-15-2006, 02:25 AM   #73
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Yes, but once you've defined your point in a thread, and made that point ubundantly clear, there's really no reason to repeat yourself in the same thread. Just because someone has replied doesn't mean you have to as well, but if you do, at least try and be original.

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Old 08-15-2006, 07:39 AM   #74
counting_pine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Largo LaGrande
I still think Monkey Island 3 was worst of the 4 Monkey Island games, mainly because after Monkey Island 2 myself mainly was really excited about what was going to happen in Monkey Island 3 but Monkey Island 3 did not continue from were Monkey Island 2 left off in a way I wanted it to and I think it could have been alot better.
Actually I think that this fact just goes to show that it is possible for a Monkey Island game to undergo a change of team leaders, a change in the story direction and a complete graphics overhaul, and still (overall) be accepted and remembered fondly by the Monkey Island community.
It achieved this by being a great game, not just by being a continuation in the Monkey Island series.


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