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Old 11-23-2006, 10:28 PM   #1
Samuel Dravis
 
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Affirmative Action

Recently some Republican group at the University of Texas held an affirmative action bake sale. The TV news interviewed several members of minorities, mostly African-Americans, and asked the reason they were protesting the sale. One of them used an analogy: "If you're playing cards with a few people and you realize that at least some are cheating to win. Do you want them to just start playing fair from then on, or do you want your money back as well?"

Sure, I can understand that. I know someone cheated me, I'd want my money back too.

The issue then becomes - who cheated you? Do you demand all the money that everyone won from you, regardless of whether you *know* they cheated or not?

Because, of course, that's just not fair. I wouldn't want anyone to be unfairly termed a cheater, suffer as a cheater. They're my card buddies, after all.

Now let's put this back into reality. Supposedly, white people are the "cheaters" in this instance. Not all of them, of course, just some. Let's also take into consideration that these people protesting this event were no more than ~25 years old; typical college students. That means that they were born at least 17 years after the 1964 ruling on desegregation - enough time for an entire generation of students to go through the school system.

The thing that these cheaters are getting undeserved is admission to a university. Curious thing is, pretty much all of these 'scumbags' were also born after that ruling - it's not like people older than that are a significant part of a college's population. Consequently, they are much less likely to descriminate precisely because they have not known the racism mindset as an institutionalized value. I know the people that I am around, those my age, my friends, my generation, has very few problems with discrimination. In fact, I've personally counted a grand total of none during my time in college. Perhaps this is worse elsewhere, but I'm going from my experience.

I am 19 years old, I am a white middle class male, and I'm being called a cheater by this man. I'm being told I stole something from him, and now I need to give it back.

Why am I a cheater? Who decided this? What reason does he have to believe this kind of thing of me? I didn't give him one; I try to be fair to everyone I come into contact with; they're people, they're Americans. Those are the core values which I have been taught.

I guess the color of my skin is cheating me out of a fair evaluation of my actions.

I don't like that.


"Words are deeds." - Wittgenstein
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Old 11-23-2006, 10:51 PM   #2
Spider AL
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Basic morality would dictate that if you have not been personally wronged, you have no right to claim compensation for yourself. I highly doubt that any of the protesters in your anecdote had been personally wronged by any of the bake-sale individuals.

As for affirmative action, one does not achieve balance by perpetually swinging from one extreme to another. Affirmative action is merely reverse discrimination, and reverse discrimination on the basis of both gender and race has had awful effects on the society in my country. The most capable people should get jobs WHATEVER their gender or race, but in the UK during the early to mid nineties there were many instances involving local government positions in which the most capable people were rejected in favour of the first person of the "correct ethnic background" who came along. The most extreme debacle that resulted from this was I believe in Lambeth in London, where eventually the local government offices were largely staffed by the completely illiterate.

Now, people are often accused of racism for saying what I just typed, but frankly this is a matter of common sense and public record. Stating that the most capable people should be employed no matter what, is merely basic, logical morality.

There ARE instances of racial and sexual discrimination in our society. But certainly in the UK, I have seen members of EVERY race attack every other race. I've seen black people being incontrivertably racist towards white people, asian people being racist towards black people, white people being racist towards asian people, and... frankly every conceivable combination of the preceding. Racism is NOT a quality that only one race holds a monopoly on.


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Old 11-24-2006, 10:10 AM   #3
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As a firm believer in the Merit System I hate Affirmative Action. I have worked hard to get where I am and don't like seeing people who haven't worked hard getting a government hand out that many will piss away. There is no such thing as reverse discrimination, Affirmative Action is discrimination, pure and simple. If you can't get a Scholarship or take out some Student Loans you don't have any reason to go to College.
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Old 11-25-2006, 02:26 AM   #4
TheTexasPirate!
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what about that dude who wants to start up a white only scholarship that you have to be at least 25% white. they are calling him racist. yet there are black only scholarships, and hispanic only scholarships, and asian only scholarships. they are not considerd racists, only the white only one is considered racist. which it is not.

BTW I'm hispanic, middle class, 37 years old, male.


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Old 11-25-2006, 02:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by TheTexasPirate!
what about that dude who wants to start up a white only scholarship that you have to be at least 25% white. they are calling him racist. yet there are black only scholarships, and hispanic only scholarships, and asian only scholarships. they are not considerd racists, only the white only one is considered racist. which it is not.
All this sh*t is racist, there shouldn't be no race only scholarships of any kind.
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Old 11-25-2006, 02:37 AM   #6
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Have you ever heard of the stolen generation? It was a time in Australia when the native people were taken from their families, whether it was because the government truely believed they would be better off, it was done to establish white superiority, whatever the real reason was, I don't know. Now this is an absolutely tragic thing to occur, something that should never have happened and everyone should be sorry took place. Compensation and land is even being handed out to try and help the healing process. But victimising white man isn't going to change what happened, demanding we hand everything back to them isn't going to change things either. And yet this is being done time and time again when we try and make amends for our mistakes. It's kicking dirt in our face for helping, and I truely do not have an answer in terms of what can be done to make the situation better, but I know I try my damndest and I'm certain that everyone who seeks to heal these racial wounds do their level best as well.
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Old 11-25-2006, 03:02 AM   #7
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Have you ever heard of the stolen generation?
No, Nancy!

Quote:
It was a time in Australia when the native people were taken from their families, whether it was because the government truely believed they would be better off, it was done to establish white superiority, whatever the real reason was, I don't know. Now this is an absolutely tragic thing to occur, something that should never have happened and everyone should be sorry took place. Compensation and land is even being handed out to try and help the healing process. But victimising white man isn't going to change what happened, demanding we hand everything back to them isn't going to change things either. And yet this is being done time and time again when we try and make amends for our mistakes. It's kicking dirt in our face for helping, and I truely do not have an answer in terms of what can be done to make the situation better, but I know I try my damndest and I'm certain that everyone who seeks to heal these racial wounds do their level best as well.
I'm tired of racism of any kind, it is time for that sh*t to end now.
Also I know people can't make up the mistakes of the past.
It's time to move on from that ridiculous past.

Last edited by windu6; 11-25-2006 at 03:14 AM.
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