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Old 12-08-2006, 05:55 PM   #1
Maxstate
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Thumbs up Saber style suggestion thread!

Saber style suggestions only please, posts about other subjects will be deleted!

Now I know a lot of us want the styles to reflect their form counterparts, their movie counterparts and even their JKA/ingame flows and nuances.

Razor Ace has agreed to give balancing them a shot IF (big IF) we guys can get to a general consensus on how they should be and IF we all agree on THAT particurlar way.

Now I think I might know how this could work:
Everyone post their ideas on how it SHOULD be, then in the end, we can discuss our likes and dislikes of all the different and come to one conclusion and work it out as good as we can.

Please everyone be sure to react quickly on this because Ace doesn't have much time left

My idea:

We base the styles on what they represent universally:
Blue: Defense
Yellow: Balanced
Red: Aggressive
Cyan: Riposting/passive aggressive
Purple: Speed/power combo

Blue:

Anti gunner: Switching to blue should result in more simplified deflection of blaster bolts, id est : Slightly less DP damage for DEFLECTING projectiles. I think deflecting a bolt right now is 5 dp, make it 4 dp for whenever the user is in blue stance.

Anti saber: A defensive style, so defensive bonus.. hmmm.
How about a defense multiplier?
1 parried attack: normal damage.
2 parried attacks: less DP damage.
3 Parried attacks: even less DP damage.

it would reset as soon you would fail to parry.

Yellow wouldn't really need to get any bonuses to anti saber or anti gunner combat, BUT:
If someone buys at least 1 point in every core force power, they can meditate while in yellow mode and receive a bonus regen rate.

Red:
Anti gunner: Hitting a blasterbolt with a slash will count as a manual deflect.
Note that sense 3 and saber defense 3 have to be bought for this to work.

Anti saber: Either A: 10fp fatigue threshold is ignored down to 0 FP to simulate true berserker-esque strength or B: add a damage multiplier for power attacks:
1 unparried power attack: normal damage.
2 unparried power attacks: slight increase in damage.
3 unparried power attacks: even more damage.


Cyan
Anti saber only.

Using cyan, you can disarm someone with a riposte if he has higher than half mishap. Riposting a power attack is an instant disarm.

Purple
Juyo would benefit from many ideas. Being described as unpredictable, open and powerful I think there's a lot we can do with it.
My personal ideas:
A: More DP damage on unparried attacks.
B:Ability to dual-loop power attacks, which essentially means just doing 2 fakes/changes in direction before the actual slash.
C: Ignore the recently added feature that makes parried users have to return to idle stance before they can attack again.

That's it for my ideas, post your own and I'm sure we can work something out here.

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Old 12-08-2006, 07:25 PM   #2
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Honestly, I kind of like the way it is now, where switching saber styles makes a bigger visual difference than it does in how well you can play. I wouldn't mind a few perks for different styles, but I think they should be fairly muted: in other words, style could make a difference, but a SMALL difference.
I want a competent player to be able to hold his own just fine in any style, and I don't want the game to force me into using certain styles to survive certain situations. The last thing I want is to have to constantly cycle through styles during a fight depending on the exact situation I'm in.
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi_CW
Honestly, I kind of like the way it is now, where switching saber styles makes a bigger visual difference than it does in how well you can play. I wouldn't mind a few perks for different styles, but I think they should be fairly muted: in other words, style could make a difference, but a SMALL difference.
I want a competent player to be able to hold his own just fine in any style, and I don't want the game to force me into using certain styles to survive certain situations. The last thing I want is to have to constantly cycle through styles during a fight depending on the exact situation I'm in.
I agree. But see, with the things I suggested and things like it, it would still be a matter of preference. You don't NEED to switch to blue to deflect shots, but I see where you're going with your comment.

Please post your own ideas on how it should be and I will probably agree, I just had to get the ball rolling.

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Old 12-08-2006, 10:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi_CW
Honestly, I kind of like the way it is now, where switching saber styles makes a bigger visual difference than it does in how well you can play. I wouldn't mind a few perks for different styles, but I think they should be fairly muted: in other words, style could make a difference, but a SMALL difference.
I want a competent player to be able to hold his own just fine in any style, and I don't want the game to force me into using certain styles to survive certain situations. The last thing I want is to have to constantly cycle through styles during a fight depending on the exact situation I'm in.
Well, the main problem is that its not just visual, its speed (because of the greater number of animation frames or how they are set up) and how they hit, which is why I've been hounding razor to put the different DP damage values back in for ages. I don't mind different perks either as long as their balanced. I"m always for adding more depth in to sabercombat.


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Old 12-09-2006, 05:31 AM   #5
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I've been trying to balance the actual animation lengths as they crop up.

Anyway, I agree with Sushi, style differences should be small, probably in the %5-15% advantage/disadvantage range. Also, I don't think that style choice should effect things other than saber combat. Simply choosing a particular style isn't going to gain you extra Force or acrobatic abilities.

But, maybe there might be some justification for bolt blocking differences based on style motion or something. Should one of the stances be the "anti-gunner" stance and maybe allow manual reflections during attack swings? (Which one?) This could be offset by weaker saber-on-saber abilities.


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Old 12-09-2006, 06:26 AM   #6
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
But, maybe there might be some justification for bolt blocking differences based on style motion or something. Should one of the stances be the "anti-gunner" stance and maybe allow manual reflections during attack swings? (Which one?) This could be offset by weaker saber-on-saber abilities.
I'd pick blue, it has the right stuff and it's always been a limited saber to saber style.

Shall I just list everything in percentages of damage then?

Blue:
Would only do 70% damage of what it did before.
Would have have a parry multiplier which rewards every good parry with -10% damage (up to 3 or 4).

Yellow: When sense 3 and yellow are bought, dp/fp regen while meditating is upped by 30% speed.

Red: Every consecutive unparried power attack will get a 10% damage boost by multiplier (up to 3).

Cyan: Ripostes are a lot more useful and can disarm a person as soon as they reach half mishap.

Purple: (one of 3 ideas)

Maybe you should make these buyable skills on the side? Kind of like specializations? They would cost a ****load and the bonuses would only be applied once you buy them. It would also limit people as to what styles they could choose. I'd love to see people be limited to 2 or 3 styles.

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Old 12-09-2006, 09:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
I'd pick blue, it has the right stuff and it's always been a limited saber to saber style.

Shall I just list everything in percentages of damage then?

Blue:
Would only do 70% damage of what it did before.
Would have have a parry multiplier which rewards every good parry with -10% damage (up to 3 or 4).

Yellow: When sense 3 and yellow are bought, dp/fp regen while meditating is upped by 30% speed.

Red: Every consecutive unparried power attack will get a 10% damage boost by multiplier (up to 3).

Cyan: Ripostes are a lot more useful and can disarm a person as soon as they reach half mishap.

Purple: (one of 3 ideas)

Maybe you should make these buyable skills on the side? Kind of like specializations? They would cost a ****load and the bonuses would only be applied once you buy them. It would also limit people as to what styles they could choose. I'd love to see people be limited to 2 or 3 styles.
These ideas are pretty good. I especially agree with lowering blues main damage (so it cant buzzsaw people as well) and boosting reds. I'd also like to see a style or skill that turns regular slowbounces into heavybounces with the disadvantage of not knowing percisely where your opponent's mishap meter is.


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Old 12-09-2006, 05:56 PM   #8
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How is that really a disadvantage? You'd get used to it after a while.


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Old 12-09-2006, 07:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
How is that really a disadvantage? You'd get used to it after a while.

True, but you would only have three levels to your mishap. Hmm, maybe as a disadvantage, every slowbounce against you turns into a heavybounce as well? I suppose we could also make it so that only the slowbounces in in the slowbounce range change to heavybounces and not the ones in at low mishap. I wouldnt mind it as a style skill, but I kind of like it as a menu skill better.


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Old 12-09-2006, 07:58 PM   #10
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More suggestions please.

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Old 12-13-2006, 01:36 PM   #11
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I like your general ideas Max, especially the idea of making Makashi have only anti-saber bonuses, since it focusses on saber vs saber.
Though, the bonus itself seems weird... disarming isn't really like Makashi...

Something like making it able to parry attacks with swings would be more appropriate, or maybe causing heavier mishaps (ep3 obi wan and anakin get kicked down and force pushed) or maybe easier superbreak (ep2 obi wan loses saber lock).

Also, maybe with Juyo you could dodge with less DP than with another style? I think it's 30 at the moment, maybe 25 with Juyo then?
(Although, I'm not sure if it's really Juyo itself or Vapaad, which gives a big bonus to dodge )

I don't know, what do you think about it?

Edit: (well, editted it before you repplied, and re-editted now :P)
Oh by the way, I have an idea about style-buying system.
Instead of having 1, 2, or 5 styles according to offense level, I have 2 different ideas:

1) Buy as many styles as you want on their own (Hmmm... Soresu, Djem so, and Makashi, that will be... 12 points! [or something like that...] )
Though this might be a problem due to the offenser power... what would it become?

So here comes my second idea:
2) You can choose 1, 2, or 3 styles according to your offense level.
(Hmmm I got level 2 only, because I want jump 3 in this map, so I'll take Soresu for defense and hmm maybe Shii-cho for it's meditation FP regen boost with sense 3)

Last edited by TheShaman; 12-13-2006 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman
I like your general ideas Max, especially the idea of making Makashi have only anti-saber bonuses, since it focusses on saber vs saber.
Though, the bonus itself seems weird... disarming isn't really like Makashi...

Something like making it able to parry attacks with swings would be more appropriate, or maybe causing heavier mishaps (ep3 obi wan and anakin get kicked down and force pushed) or maybe easier superbreak (ep2 obi wan loses saber lock).

Also, maybe with Juyo you could dodge with less DP than with another style? I think it's 30 at the moment, maybe 25 with Juyo then?
(Although, I'm not sure if it's really Juyo itself or Vapaad, which gives a big bonus to dodge )

I don't know, what do you think about it?
On Ace's recommendation I've tried to get rid of the whole Forms idea, but I still like them a lot.

My makashi idea is based on it being the pure parry and riposte king when it comes to defense, Makashi's strength doesn't lie in it's offensive ability.

I see Juyo as a speed, power and confusion combination and I see Vaapad more as a speed, confusion, dark side and anti-force combination.
It would be logical to give Juyo a Dodge bonus or something, but untill we get saber styles that are loosely buyable, or a reason to actually spend points on saber defense and attack I don't see the benefit of it.

Although I do like your thinking.

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