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Old 02-08-2007, 10:56 PM   #1
SilentScope001
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Murder: What's your opinon?

The argument over abortion in the other topic centers around the warrant that murdering a human being is wrong, and because of that, aborting a fetus is murder, and therefore is wrong...which leads me to wonder.

Is murder wrong?

This is a theoritcal topic, and I do not condone the use of murder. What I wonder though is why I do not condone the use of murder, and why people say that murder is wrong.

The most common argument against murder is the Forfiture Account. Murder is wrong because you are taking away a person's life without getting the person's conset to "forfiet" his life. In other words, you are stealing/destroying a person's property, and therefore it is wrong. Sounds pretty good justification, but it does beg the question of why stealing and destroying other people's property is wrong...

The other argument is that society would not be able to function properly if murder exist. If everyone is allowed to kill each other, we'll all die. Therefore, we ban murder in order to prevent a State of Chaos from being formed. Sounds good, but begs the question of why society is important, and why not human liberty (like the freedom to bring harm onto others)?

There is in fact one person, Mariqus de Sade, who argues that Murder is in fact okay. I have the full text of his argument, but I'll summarize it (if you are interested, I can post it in this thread or send it by PM):
1. Nature is perfect and nature is what causes people to murder, by causing him to be angry. Since nature is perfect, and it is nature that causes people to murder, how could murder violate the laws of nature? In fact, murder helps nature, as it creates compost materials that can be used by nature to create new beings, such as trees and grass, furthering the cycle of life.
2. Murder is needed to keep nations and political organizations in order. It is the organized murder of wars that need to keep nations up and running.
3. Murder cannot be a crime against society because society really doesn't care if one person is living or if one person is dead. Its laws, customs, and traditions will not be violated and the death of one person really has no effect upon a general mass.

Marqius believes that mankind is proud and boastful and because of that, declares a murder of itself as a crime, because it believes itself to be great, and that nature would be worried if this human race gets destroyed. Mariqus thinks that nature really wouldn't care if the human race all get wiped out, it will continue as it always had, and the stars will move in its path without noting the passing of a patheic race. Mariqus ends his paper, commenting that monarchs are able to pass decrees that causes for the deaths of millions, but laments that these feeble beings are not even allowed to kill someone else just to sastify their vengance and hate.

I can see this arugment being knocked down, and in the end, I think this topic will conclude with a resounding "MURDER IS WRONG!". But that is not the point. Rather, the point is to probes at the heart of the matter what is our morals and our ethics, and what we believe about the sacinty and worth (or non-worth according to Marqius) of a human being. Why we believe the way we do, and is our way of thinking considered good or is bad? Especially since while we hate murder, many nations usually punish the doing of that crime by...murder. Surely, it shows that maybe murder is sometimes right?

Again, I'll repeat again, I hate murder. I just want to know why I, and the rest of society, hate murder.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:05 PM   #2
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By the way, Marquis de Sade, not Mariqus, which would be pronounced, Ma-ri-cus(it's actually unpronounceable in French but meh) and not Mar-kee.

That is all.


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Old 02-08-2007, 11:22 PM   #3
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If you allow murder to be committed by individuals, that's obviously another name for anarchy.

Not much to say on this matter, though. You (thankfully) won't find many differing opinions.


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Old 02-08-2007, 11:36 PM   #4
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Well, Marquis de Sade is just one man entitled to his opinion. I do think it's wrong to revert to search primitive means. To help us feel better, we soften it to such words as "assassinate" and "eliminate." Do I condone "assassinating a menace to society?" Yes. Do I condone wanton destruction? No. It's how you, me, society interpret what's right and wrong is what will MAKE it right or wrong. If our world said to do what is necessary to be the most powerful, murder and other crimes would be "natural."

About nature : We're currently on top in nature, sooo how we play it out is how it happens. Once dolphins and monkeys start creating civilizations and doing something more meaningful than swim and throw poop, they too can join our ranks. Technically, since we're part of nature, anything we do is...natural...good or bad.
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:43 PM   #5
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a. Murder is dead wrong
b. The Marquis de Sade (from whom we supposedly get the term sadist) was a sociopathic fruitcake.


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Old 02-08-2007, 11:51 PM   #6
SilentScope001
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Er...maybe this topic wasn't such a good idea.

Could someone likely lock it? And if anyone is interested in talking about it, I guess they could PM me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 02-08-2007, 11:58 PM   #7
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Depends what you mean by murder... I think the assassination of invididuals wanting to blow people up (e.g. suicide bombers) or those who are too difficult to take down in peaceful means by autorities then I think yes that should be done. Serial Killers, Private Assassins or people take the law into their own hands I would say is wrong. Is suicide wrong, well I would not be arrogant enough to say yes or no, as that is the individuals choice (personally I would say it is wrong and try and talk them out of it).

If it is done by the state for legitimate reasons that is cool. Not like Hitler and Stalin, but say the hunting down of fugitives in Europe, USA, etc

If we go into the realms of ethical relativism and presume there is no God, then too me I see nothing wrong with it, as we are all basically animals then, and just competeing with one another for habbitat, food sources and mating rights, then murder does become acceptable I hava feelings alot of people will dislike me saying that :-p



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Old 02-09-2007, 12:06 AM   #8
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Murder is wrong. While there are times that killing is justified(self defense, defense of others) murder is always wrong.


.....Don't see much discussion potential, as just about any sane person would say the same.


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Old 02-09-2007, 12:34 AM   #9
Hayden Kered
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Murder is wrong in every way, but to kill by means of defence or protection is justifiable, IMO.

Exodus 20: 13~ Thou shalt not kill.
This by meaning to murder, to take one's life through an act of rage, revenge, or pleasure.

Ecclesiastes 3: 1-3~ [1] To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
[2] A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
[3] A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

There are times when we must kill for justice, even by the will of God.

Murder: To kill with out justifiable cause is wrong.

To Kill: Through times of war or to end a threat (such as a person seeking world domination) is just.


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Old 02-09-2007, 12:48 AM   #10
Jae Onasi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Er...maybe this topic wasn't such a good idea.

Could someone likely lock it? And if anyone is interested in talking about it, I guess they could PM me.
OK, will do.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

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