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Old 01-14-2007, 04:52 AM   #1
Darth Avlectus
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References to horror flicks and history in K3?

Let's face it, the star wars franchise has its suggestions of odes and references towards horror flicks and historcial things in it. I could take forever going down the list.

And let us not forget that lucas arts back in '93 teamed up with konami to make a tour `de force called Zombies ate my neighbors. This referenced just about everthing in horror as well as its own comedy and a few other things.


Is it something we need more of or less of in K3?
WHY? Or WHY NOT?

Now, let's press the issue.

IMO: I think, so long as it is unique if not original...sure. Why not?
I can read off a list of comparisons should anybody care.

Last edited by Jae Onasi; 01-14-2007 at 08:07 AM. Reason: Changed title 14 Jan 07 by Jae
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Old 01-14-2007, 11:01 AM   #2
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If you can list the references forever, try listing at least one, cause I dont remember any.
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Old 01-14-2007, 11:02 AM   #3
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I'm not sure I understand this topic.

Name a few horror flicks that have a reference in star wars... I'm curious.

Anyway, do you want K3 to have horror content in it? Or humourous referrals to horror movies? I think horror doesn't have a place in starwars...
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Old 01-14-2007, 02:24 PM   #4
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Yea I don't get it either. I'm not sure I remember any horror flick references in either KotOR game. If you have that "list of comparisons", reading it off would be helpful.


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Old 01-14-2007, 03:06 PM   #5
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Actually I was too tired to type anymore last night.

Well, maybe not a direct reference and I suppose it is all debateble, but

In KOTOR2
Kreia is sort of like a witch
Sion is a zombie basically
Nihilus is an abomination, and with the whole sucking force thing is a bit vapirish (the bite-neck and suck blood was bram stoker's idea, WHAT I am referring to is real life vampires--people wh do the sort of work on a telekenisis lever with your aura; kirilian photography has proven these people do drain aura--but from willing patients; not at all like we have seen in movies)

I don't see too much in K1 except the caucasian skinned asian face with a fu man-chu goatee for the PC

In the movies:
Count Dooku...Count D? Dracula.
He also sort of physically has the appearance of the more popularly known dracula; tall, was mr stud when he was younger af far as 'good looks' would be concerned (I'm a poor judge of good looking for guys since I am a guy). When dooku was beheaded, though, that was ironically coincidental with how the real dracula was supposedly killed. For those who don't know,
The origins of Dracula are a man named Vlad Teppes Dracul in the late 15th century. Vlad was either beheaded or scalped and left to die. It's unclear exactly which, but it is most popularly believed he was beheaded after losing a sword fight (no his hands didn't get cut off, he was outnumbered as the turks often did).
This man was short, stalky, muscular, long hair, mustache, and brutal. Bram stoker's dracula keeps accurate to what Vlad the impaler looked like, but time and spinoff has evolved away from it visually and in what vlad truly was.

Also the way Greivous ran and dressed was vampiric. He talked with a transylvanian (romanian) accent as well. Vlad Dracul was Transylvanian.

I'd say the emperor was sort of the "mad scientist".

Vader; that scene in ep 3 was right out of Frankenstein, duh. Reconstructed, breking the holders, waddling off and yelling "NNNOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Now can you see it?

May just be my interpretation, but these things are hard to ignore.
Other people I know actually pointed them out to me.

I get the feeling some disagree--fine if you can refute me with evidence to back up your claims. OR uncle george comes in and says something--but just 'cuz he says vader anin't like frankenstein doesn't mean he didn't get the idea from it.

There is at least an element of horror flicks in SW to MY attentions.
I think it's cool though. So long as we don't get too bogged down with it.

Maybe a Elvyra without the hairdoo next?
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:08 AM   #6
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:45 AM   #7
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Yes, this does seem like a bit of a reach. It is known that Lucas references all sorts of sources, such as directly from several Akira Kurosawa films. I would say that horror references are some of the lesser, and mostly by coincidence. The Frankenstein reference is probably the only real tangible one in the films.

As for K2, those examples are probably closer, but I would argue (because it is a bit of a pet peeve) that Sion and Nihilus "powers" are a bit over the top because they in fact do not really align with what we see in the films.

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Old 01-15-2007, 12:23 PM   #8
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I think it's a bit far-stretched to say that Star Wars was directly influenced by "horror flics". The casting of Christopher Lee as Dooku probably influenced the Dracula references more than anything else. For Grievous, I disagree; wearing a cape doesn't make you a vampire (or else I guess every single Jedi would be one?) and there are more than 22 million romanians who, I am sure, are not all vampires. The way he ran? Quasimodo, from The Hunchback of Notre Dame, probably ran that way too.

The Vader & Frankenstein part, I'll give it to you. But the rest is mostly situational, in my opinion. The point is, you can create references out of pretty much everything. Star Wars might really have horror films references, but it's not a major source.

I won't comment on Nihilus and Sion, because like Prime said, these are straight out of a game developper's mind and simply don't fit with the "canon" movie material. I would personally like KotOR 3 to be closer to the movies than the (IMO) ridiculous storyline of TSL.


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Old 02-04-2007, 08:22 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by DarthMuffin
For Grievous, I disagree; wearing a cape doesn't make you a vampire (or else I guess every single Jedi would be one?) and there are more than 22 million romanians who, I am sure, are not all vampires. The way he ran? Quasimodo, from The Hunchback of Notre Dame, probably ran that way too.
True, and I may not know any specifics I can point to. I didn't say I had any direct references. A stretch, yes and no.

I doubt georgie boy got greivous' run from Quazi. Q had a more waddling hopping run. The way Greivous carried his cape and ran, It's like the Drac of some drac films which are spinoffs. That's what I meant by greivous.

However, I Never said all romanians were vamps. I said Vlad was tansylvanian--->romanian. Vlad has been made into a vamp by Bram Stoker's work. Stoker's was the first. Everything after that is spinoffs of Stoker's work that have evolved away from it. Now instead of the Transylvanian king imagery, we get slicked back hair with "tall and handsome"--esque in dark clothes and cape and fangs.
Vamp has been most popularly established as something that literally sucks life from the living. Not all suck blood I realize. Some are psychic, and somesuch.

Yea,
"Nothing is created, everything this is copied" ... I wish somebody would tell capcom that their game writers need to stop doing that for everything.

This is probably just difference of opinion but, While Sion's powers may just be a bit over the top, the whole scrapped together thing and refusing to die says zombie all over it. OK nothing Specific here. May not be a slobbering and retarded mess, but still. Undead, like a zombie.

Nihilus. Looks sort of like a stereotypical vamp imagery-wise to me...... sucks life and force away from living creatures...Hmm, sounds like The popularly-pretty-well-established vamp.......Unless you want to call him a leach in fancy Rags and a mask. I could go with that--his skin is always black and shady like a leach. Nothing too Specific here either.

I'll say the KOTOR2 Villains are to a lesser degree, but not completely, UN- horror flick-ish. I agree K2s storylins sux. I did pick up one thing though; to defeat a nobody like Nihilus, it takes a nobody like the exile. It's the story of a couple nobodys fighting. Pretty boring. Ask the non SW fan what they think of sion and nihilus of appearance and concepts; of those who can keep up, at least half will probably say zombie and vampire. My community college had some class that took surveys of various things, one happened to be on the K2 bosses. The average folk said it here, and people are simply people the world over.

Maul--This one is subjective. Well, I don't think it takes a genius to figure out satanic/devil/demon imagery went into him.
You could debate that, but I doubt most people will disagree. Not an actual horror flick, I know. BUT,
All the time Lucifer, Satan, and the Devil are used as references for evil--which, judging by reactions of people who are scared of them could pass as their impersonal horror creatures.

It is a little stretch, but I'm glad at least someone acknowledged Fankenstein and Dracula.

We already are getting close to Egypt style mummy flicks with sith tombs.

IS this an element the SW franchise should do more with or without? (though after K2 I think we're all desperate for any storyline that is better.)

Last edited by RedHawke; 02-04-2007 at 08:33 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tags...
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Old 02-04-2007, 01:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity
Maul--This one is subjective. Well, I don't think it takes a genius to figure out satanic/devil/demon imagery went into him.
You could debate that, but I doubt most people will disagree. Not an actual horror flick, I know. BUT,
All the time Lucifer, Satan, and the Devil are used as references for evil--which, judging by reactions of people who are scared of them could pass as their impersonal horror creatures.
I remember hearing that Maul was based off of a nightmare George Lucas had when he was younger. I don't remember where exactly I heard it, it may have been an article I read somewhere... but I was under the impression that was the inspiration for Maul's appearance... not the devil.

Quote:
We already are getting close to Egypt style mummy flicks with sith tombs.
Mummy movies aren't the only stories that involve tombs, you know.


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Old 02-08-2007, 07:13 PM   #11
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Nah, Star Wars was most strongly based on the Nazis and World War II, and the prequals argueably on Bush and the war on terror and Iraq.
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Old 02-08-2007, 08:50 PM   #12
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Well the prequels does not follow history as much, though I do know about the whole iraq-CIS thing floating around. But yes Lots of OT stuff follow WWII German design, including the weaponary. Well when it comes to weapon design and what not it is easy to start with some present toys and improve on it, though some may be too obvious to be entertaining, like that P90TR in Dark imes...
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:10 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
Nah, Star Wars was most strongly based on the Nazis and World War II, and the prequals argueably on Bush and the war on terror and Iraq.
How did you come to that conclusion? Episode I was made in 1999 and GL had all 3 prequals plotted out before then... also Bush wasn't even president to base anything on at that time?


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Old 02-09-2007, 01:24 AM   #14
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That's why I said argueably. It's not a view I share but people have jumped on the 'Bush is Palpatine' bandwagon, for the sake of our sanity I've ignored that and concentrated on people discussing comparisons and allegories to RotS and Bush.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051600615.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in695449.shtml

http://www.lilithgallery.com/articles/episode3iraq.html

Okay, Anakin echoing Bush in saying "if you are not with me then you are my enemy" is a good one, but I think this may have been raised before, and if memory serves the rise and fall of the empire could apply to any such event in history from the Egyptions, Ninivites and Romans to the Mayans, Soviets and Atlantians, if you believe in that sort of thing.
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:39 AM   #15
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^^^^
Oh, ok!


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Old 02-09-2007, 11:35 AM   #16
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Hm, the Prequel and the Origianl triology always seemed to reflect a anti-Nazi view of the rise of Nazi Germany. The Prequels talk about how Palpatine/Aldof Hitler came into power by creating an threat (CIS/bombing of the German Parliment) and then combating it to rise in popularity and gain abosulte power. The OT talks about how Palpatine gets overthrown.

Then again, it can be aruged that Palpatine represent every single dictatorship out there that George Lucas hates (even the Evil Empire, the Soviet Union) and the Republic represent the democracy that George Lucas loves (even when said Republic turns out to be a corrupt body of politicans wanting to stab each other).


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Old 02-09-2007, 04:28 PM   #17
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Politics muddy the issue, especially for a movie kids will see (though Star Wars is growing up). All the allegories in the world are fun, maybe even valid, if a little uncomfortable. For me though, I like simplicity...good guys are Republic, Jedi, ect. Bad guys are CIS, Sith and their cronies. Good guys point guns at bad guys, pull the trigger, repeat. Must be why I like Battlefront so much. Having a female character they try and make cooler than any before her is fun as well.
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:00 AM   #18
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HAHAHA! I though this one thread would not survive long!

As for maul--I'd love to see where the info came from for uncle G having a nightmare that inspired Maul into being. Even if it is only idle speculation, any kind of attention adds to the legendary status of SW as a whole franchise. Certainly, my fencing/ sword play club at my college has a hard time keeping away from it: in a play we just did, my character was killed like count dooku!

At any rate, maybe horror flicks are not so much inspiration as are attrocious events and history? I'd like to expand on both ideas where possible.

Politics is something that muddys the issue, whatever the issue is.
Wanting it simple is understandable, but why not make it a bit after something we can all sort of relate to?

Prefer the horros of our real world do we? I guess no better place to get inspiration for stories!
I guess humans--oids are the ultimate evil? We seem to prefer the horror and attrocities of our world.

Ian McDiarmid said something in an interview about how "episode 3 really makes you think about freedoms and liberties." I don't remember exactly what or how he said it (I can't find it anymore, if someone could find the article--please?) but it was about how "we must be so careful in how we try to use and protect (the freedoms and liberties) because it is so easy to errode them." I couldn't agree more. While I think the media is hyperbolizing things, you cannot ignore what is going on in the world today...especially how makes some of us feel......feel like we are sort of living in a time like ROTS. I'm not like the idiots who lean on everything the media says, but I do watch the idiots and the rest of the world. A lot of the crap to come will be self-induced. That's a horror story if I've ever seen or heard one.

Bush is Palpatine--what a load of hooey. Bush isn't that clever. Probably just playing stupid and looking the other way on a lot of issues, admittedly. If it can be done and it makes money, it's done. That's lawyers and politicians and lawyers for you. What do they care what anyone says or thinks? However, "W" used to own and manage a baseball team--which went right into the ground, and I seriously doubt that was on purpose....... like how the 'punk' crowd want to believe bush is doing it all. Most of their arguments are on suppositions. I saw something on how Bush's family was linked to the Nazis. I couldn't tell you what to make of it. Because it is the only one of its kind (well, now there's probably more, but this was 2005), based on observation of 'what' it is and that it is rare, eventually points (as weak an inference as it is) to either being a real deal or a cleverly presented and totally contrived load of something that smells bad. I'm willing to give it all a chance, but I don't expect anything real.
(In fact, there's a good example, the media and social groups, of using freedom of the press to possibly run amock. Being used to demoralize and divide USA--Exec. Producers, as well as those with agendas, are very clever at sending messages to do just that, I know because I've met a few. After all it's all about the money.)

So much as history, why not some horror story that is based on something ranging from the dark ages to the imperial ages--especially seeing as how SW seems to want to have a lot to do with republics and empires and uprisings.

I guess classic horror flicks get the boot for now. I was hoping for a little more here. Possibly on the real Dracula: Vlad Teppes Dracul (the impaler)-- not the vampire. Though Dooku did a good job of playing a sort of in between role of both: Count D in the name, and having sort of the appearance of the tall slick guy with a cape for the Vamp part, and an expert swordsman, cunning tactician, as well as beheading death for the Vlad the impaler part. Though I think he was scalped and left to die--the corpse in the tomb could be someone else.

A mad scientist role has been portrayed (if only slightly in character and/or visually) a few times. Galak Fyaar in JK2, in a way the trade federation and some seperatists (those in charge of droids). Perhaps Malak and the Star Forge. Those who do "experiments". But that's just my opinion.

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