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Old 02-25-2007, 02:23 AM   #1
Rockstar
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guardian vs sentinal

Hi all,

Just wondering. Besides force jump, what can a guardian do that a sentinal cannot? I heard somebody say they have no better attack rating than a sentinal (which is worrying) so what do they do?
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Old 02-25-2007, 04:19 AM   #2
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They get more hitpoints (10 per level If I'm not mistaken), but less force points.

In Kotor I, they had a significant bonus in lightsaber hit rate (and damage I think), which made the sentinel a kinda crappy class, but I think in Kotor II that's not the case.

I recommend you take the consular class first, later on the weaponmaster to have powerful hybrid, equally strong in force (the consular feat with break-through) and combat (weaponmaster's advanced dual fighting).

Or you go sentinel/watchman, weaker imo, but you get way more skills. You don't need them though, that's what you got party member for.
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Old 02-25-2007, 04:29 AM   #3
Diego Varen
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Actually, Consular is better than both of them. Sure you might not be as good with a Lightsaber, but near the end, it feels balanced, than the other two classes.
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:04 AM   #4
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I think that sentinel/jedi master is best for lightside (you have good melee skills at the start - where you need them as you can boost them later with items)

Dark side i think that consular/sith lord is good. It really is best to go consular for a sith lord as you need high wisdom and charisma to make the dark side spells effective. Light side poweres don't require to hit thier target, hense no need to invest much into wisdom
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Old 02-25-2007, 07:53 AM   #5
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That's true. Consular / jedi Master is not worth it, if you REALLY use lightside powers only. (I will always skill lightning and choke, no matter what I play)
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Old 02-25-2007, 08:25 AM   #6
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In TSL, the real problem is that everyone has the same attack base. That means the guardian has only force jump and few measely extra feats and hit points in advantage over the sentinel, who has tons more skill points and force immunity to certain abilities. And skills are really useful in TSL, too...

EDIT: Oh, and given that force jumps are possible only for someone using a lightsaber and how long it takes before you get one, the advantage of force jumps are reduced to almost zero IMHO... (unless you cheat and use the KSE to get a lightsaber earlier. But then you can just as well given your sentinel force jump, as I did in one game...)


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Old 02-25-2007, 08:45 AM   #7
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i like goning consular/weapons master or gaurdian/jedi master


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Old 02-25-2007, 09:20 AM   #8
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So it's better to find balance then to go one extreme...except for the Sith Lord class?
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Old 02-25-2007, 09:41 AM   #9
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Well, I've found the most effective combination to be sentinel/jedi master (if LS). Since skills are more useful in TSL than in KotOR, the sentinel has some clear advantages, and later the weapon master seems overkill - what does it matter if you hit the opponent by a margin of five or ten when you hit him just fine either way?

On the other hand, jedi master gives you more force powers and makes them more difficult for opponents to resist. Moving through the hordes of the Trayus Academy was much easier as a sentinel/jedi master because I could just push every around with Force Wave and then Force Storm them a few times until they ere all dead... As a sentinel/weapon master, I had to go through endless battles. But even so, the sentinel/jedi master had no trouble fighting Sion or Traya, so I don't think it was a compromise.


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Old 02-25-2007, 06:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Well, I've found the most effective combination to be sentinel/jedi master (if LS). Since skills are more useful in TSL than in KotOR, the sentinel has some clear advantages, and later the weapon master seems overkill - what does it matter if you hit the opponent by a margin of five or ten when you hit him just fine either way?

On the other hand, jedi master gives you more force powers and makes them more difficult for opponents to resist. Moving through the hordes of the Trayus Academy was much easier as a sentinel/jedi master because I could just push every around with Force Wave and then Force Storm them a few times until they ere all dead... As a sentinel/weapon master, I had to go through endless battles. But even so, the sentinel/jedi master had no trouble fighting Sion or Traya, so I don't think it was a compromise.

I think that it's most fitting to choose Jedi Sentinel/Sith Lord, because you really use DS powers a lot more, since most LS powers are buffering ones, and you rarely have to use them many times in one battle. As a Darksider, however, you'll use much more DS powers, including the highly Force-Draining power: Force Crush.

As a LS, I like the combo Jedi Sentinel/Jedi Weapon Master, and I really don't know why you said you had more troubles with this combo than the Sentinel/Master combo. I mean, you should be stronger, once you have the Weapon master Prestige Class. And you really relies much more on your saber for offensive actions when lightsided.
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
I think that it's most fitting to choose Jedi Sentinel/Sith Lord, because you really use DS powers a lot more, since most LS powers are buffering ones, and you rarely have to use them many times in one battle. As a Darksider, however, you'll use much more DS powers, including the highly Force-Draining power: Force Crush.
Force Crush is powerful, but it also is a complete game-hoser, if you ask me. Defeat Sion? Spam force crush. Defeat Traya? Spam force crush... 'nuff said.

I found Force Enlightenment far more useful and balanced by comparison, and Force Storm was the only DS power I really did build. Okay, I took others, but I rarely or never used them. Hey, even Luke used Choke in RotJ...

I guess it comes down to which side you like to play. I prefer LS, so I took sentinel/jedi master. But yes, when I played DS, I definitely preferred sentinel/sith lord.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
As a LS, I like the combo Jedi Sentinel/Jedi Weapon Master, and I really don't know why you said you had more troubles with this combo than the Sentinel/Master combo. I mean, you should be stronger, once you have the Weapon master Prestige Class. And you really relies much more on your saber for offensive actions when lightsided.
I wouldn't say problem, it's just that the battles take longer because you have to rely on physical lightsaber combat instead of force powers. With my lightsaber I have to kill all the enemies one by one. With my force powers I can take out huge groups of enemies fast, if they can't resist my powers. That being the case, it took far less time for my sentinel/jedi master to blast his way through the Trayus Academy than it for my sentinel/weapon master to cut his way through...

And in the major battles against Sion and Traya, I really didn't notice much difference to be perfectly honest... Even on the highest difficulty setting.


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Old 02-25-2007, 07:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Force Crush is powerful, but it also is a complete game-hoser, if you ask me. Defeat Sion? Spam force crush. Defeat Traya? Spam force crush... 'nuff said.

I found Force Enlightenment far more useful and balanced by comparison, and Force Storm was the only DS power I really did build. Okay, I took others, but I rarely or never used them. Hey, even Luke used Choke in RotJ...
No arguments there. Force Crush is really extremely unbalanced.

Still, Force Kill, Plague and Scream, can be of some use with the Force Storm Power too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
I guess it comes down to which side you like to play. I prefer LS, so I took sentinel/jedi master. But yes, when I played DS, I definitely preferred sentinel/sith lord.
I meant that when you're DS, you obviously have more DS powers, and when LS you have more LS powers. And since you have to cast DS powers constantly to use them properly and effectly, you spend more Force Points. So, as a Darksider, you need more FP,unless you want to run out of FPs on every battle. As a Lightsider, this need is not so critical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
And in the major battles against Sion and Traya, I really didn't notice much difference to be perfectly honest... Even on the highest difficulty setting.
Well, I guess that varies from player to player. But I could certainly see some difference on my Strenght modifier
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:26 AM   #13
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ok ill tell what i think about sentinel ( this is not an anti sentinel post from me , just
the truth )

=The Stats=
each level guardian receive 2 vitality point each level (not 2 hp , 2 vitality points for your stats.) like have i explain in my Guardian/Marauder build , the stats system only get effect by 2 , lets me explain betwen 14-15 in STR for exemple you dont have any effect because its only cause by pairs of 2 . 2-4-6-8 for every stats .
SO its give you a clear boost in hp everytime you level up..

=The Force point=
beside Sentinel/watchman receive 2 more point in the amount of force .

(BTW who cares about the vitality and force trust me you dont need that much , you get enough Force with a guardian to do tons of powers trust me at lvl 30 (like in my movie) even while using different allignement powers i had enough to do it like 7 more time.
plus dont forget the items and quest that give you more force points.

=The vitality=
as i always say to everyone who emailed me about my build why you didnt have more hp ? you have so low Hp in your movie How that possible ? i anwer focus more on defense than hp and focus more on dmg than everything els and dont forget your best friends stimulants and force powers buff's . ( if anything cant touch you or hurt you before you 2 shot kill them why hp ? why force if you only need 1 or 2 cast to remove 20 enemies in 2 wave of force powers.)
(if you think iam lying just watch my movie , or wait for the next one coming out with build of mine :P)

=The Powers=

The Sentinel learn powers faster than Guardians (once sentinel get hes prestige class), But Guardian's dont need much powers like 2 or 3 powers Master speed , Force heal/Drain , Force crush.
Btw with sentinel you will use around 5 or maybe 6 different type of force powers, and maybe more if you dont have Force Enlightenment wich is the best Force buff in the game.

=The feats=
Guardian learn feats faster then sentinel , but when guardian get hes prestige class (weapon master / marauder , they get big usefull feats and just make the guardian even more overpower)
example.
Spr Two-Wpn Fghtg I
Spr Two-Wpn Fghtg II
Spr Two-Wpn Fghtg III
Spr Wpn Fcs: Lightsaber I
Spr Wpn Fcs: Lightsaber II
Spr Wpn Fcs: Lightsaber III
Increase Cmbt Dmg I
Increase Cmbt Dmg II
Increase Cmbt Dmg III
Increase Melee Dmg I
Increase Melee Dmg II
Increase Melee Dmg III
they have Force jumps for starting feats wich is usefull only againts enemies not boss because the fight is already engaged like i said before. no big deal with the guardian starting feats.

And for the sentinel feats
they got at start in kotor 2 iam not sure for kotor 1 ..
Force immunity againts fear,stun, paralysis
wich if you ask me useless when only 3% of the enemie will try to cast that powers on you. wich you can get imune to fear easly by wearing items.

=The Overall=
-kotor1-
if your wher asking for Guardian vs Sentinel in kotor 1 , i say never go sentinel because sentinel is bad in both force and melee compare to Guardian and Concular wich can make more dmg in their own way force or melee"
-kotor2-
And for kotor 2 going sentinel is only good for Assassin and watchman but playing assassin is very anoying and dull , you have to be always stealth to get your adavantage useless your class is weak , and you cant go stealth in combat (that mean that you have to be steath before the combat is engaged)
but 90 % of the big fight in the game the npc atack before you or hes talking to you before the fight hes begin.
(i realy think that obsidian have made a huge mistake in the game by that when the fight is engaged you cant go anymore stealth WOW how to make a class been very very dull)

and for wich class is stronger if you put them in a ring and ask for whos gonna win ill put my money on the guardian. Because you will have to spent to much in both STR and CHAR that the guardian have only to raise STR in they end they will do more dmg and hit more with success than sentinel.

the sentinel will strike and miss more with melee than Guardian to kill something so they will loose more hp than guardian, The sentinel will nuke more with force powers than consular to kill something so they will loose more hp and Fp so, yeah sentinel is bad if you ask me..

=The Tip=
always go for the extreama dont go for hybrid class .
because you will make weak both of your class by doing so. if you dont trust me or your an headstrong just do it then lol , i dont have the courage to explain all and everything. just try it for yourself. :P (maybe i played kotors to much time) this is the time for a kotor 3 , but this is another story.

sorry for my horrible spelling my english is bad .

Last edited by DarthZayne; 02-26-2007 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:13 AM   #14
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Guardian is superior in K1 because Sentinal is a pretty pointless class, as being a bridge between the Consular and Guardian it has none of their advantages, and skill points arent as important in K1

Sentinal is superior in K2 because skill points are more important in K2, therefore the Sentinal is better... Generally I go Sentinal then Weapon Master



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Old 02-27-2007, 07:04 PM   #15
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**SPOILER ALERT**

The most powerful character I ever made was a single saber wielding jedi guardian/weapons master. With maxed flurry i didn't put anything in two weapon fighting, instead bumping up every other damage feat and with force enlightenment (level 3 valor, barrier and speed) i killed any enemy (even at the end) in one regular attack. Sion fell in less than 5 flurries i think? Traya took a little more but the only remote challenge in the whole game were the sabers at the end, which even then are easy if you know how to tackle them.

I could have made him "more powerful" by dual wielding and using storm as well, but role playing is more fun in an easy game like this
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Old 02-27-2007, 09:11 PM   #16
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Basically, to address guardian vs. sentinel in KotOR2...

Guardian = Offensive saber-wielder
Sentinel = Defensive saber-wielder

Why? Guardians generally go weaponmaster/marauder which gets damage-increasing feats and minimizes force power effectiveness for primary offensive damage. Strength and constitution usually wind up as primary attributes. Force Jump is basically a way to cause more damage faster as well.

Sentinels lose these damage-increasing feats if they go Watchman/Assassin especially, and instead like to sneak around in the shadows. Since dex winds up as a primary attribute their defense is higher and usually at the cost of damage. They use force powers better which helps to augment their defense.

Really, IMO, the difference evens out by the endgame to be a personal preference.


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Old 03-01-2007, 02:04 PM   #17
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I usually do a dual blade Guardian\Weaponmaster focusing on strength and constitution. By the time I get to the academy my Exile is powerful enough to easily overpower the Dark Jedi there. Force Wave, Stasis Field , Master Heal and the Light Side buffs and Enlightenment (to use them faster) are all the Force powers I need. Sentinels have more skills but I don't really use any skills besides treat injury and persuade. As Fish.Stapler said Sentinels are defensive but I prefer offence. In the end all classes are good if they are properly used.
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Old 03-01-2007, 02:42 PM   #18
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Unless you're completely dedicated solely to melee, definitely choose Sentinel in TSL. As jonathan7 points out, you get far more skill points as a sentinel, and unlike KotOR, skills are quite important in TSL to say the least - if you have the right skills, you really can create some insanely powerful items at the workbench, especially if you're big on implants and lightsaber-crystals.

Also, skills and stats can be important, because there are conversation paths that are available only if you meet certain demands. Sometimes these require high stats in Intelligence or Wisdom and sometimes a high awareness skill. In the end, none of the skills are useless, though perhaps stealth has the least impact on the plot itself. There are few times when it's needed, but you can usually rely on your NPCs for that. It's still bloody useful, though - I love disarming mines in peace because the enemy can't see me, especially on Goto's yacht (you need both high stealth and demolitions to pull that off, though).

So I'd have to disagree that you shouldn't go for hybrid classes. At least, I find sentinel/jedi master to be a very powerful combination, because you get all the skill of the sentinel combined with the force powers of the jedi master. That's the combination I recommend.


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Old 03-01-2007, 03:29 PM   #19
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I never said skills are useless it's just that I'm the kind of guy that seeks solution with the lightsaber. Skills are useful that's why I always have someone with high skills in my party.When I make my lightsaber upgrades I use my party members. Force powers are useful for killing enemy groups fast but I find lightsaber combat more fun and just as effective.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:51 PM   #20
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Sentinels are very powerful in K2, for reasons outlined by many members. To add to what I have to say about Sentinels being defensive vs. Guardians being offensive (feel free to disagree, based on observations and opinions not hard stats )...

It really comes down to three things.

1. How much do you like using the force to kill people?
2. How much do you like using the lightsaber to kill people?
3. Would you prefer to rely on yourself or someone else to create items?

To address 1, sentinels are MUCH more powerful in the force than guardians...it's not even a contest really. However, buff powers on guardians end up being far more effective (in terms of melee buffs) simply because they are a pure melee class. If you're using ANY offensive powers as a guardian, prepare to have them resisted more often than not. However, if you're a Sentinel, they connect nearly as much as a Master/Lord's powers would.

To address 2...Sentinels are minus a lot of feats that can really pile the damage on. In terms of melee buffs they simply scale and add better with guardians. If you love to hack and slash and hardly ever use force powers (or if you really love 2h/saber staff) then the Guardian is for you. Offensive, sacrifices a little in terms of defense (especially Marauders using Fury) but does more damage that scales better with buffs and leveling.

For 3, Bao-Dur and Visas especially can end up with high levels in a lot of skills. If you find some good gear more often than not you can boost them up to the "build-exile-smash-gear" stuff in terms of skills and the workbench. If you are a sentinel however, you get a lot of skills and your own skills can end up being VERY high, especially with a good intelligence modifier. The choice is yours.

In conclusion, the sentinel is very powerful in different ways, most notably saber combat. To me, sentinels who use lightsabers were designed to be more defensive and go for the 1handed style of fighting (+3 defense can mean a lot more than you'd think in a long fight ), while guardians and maraduers/weaponmasters were tailored for the 2H-EXILE-SMASH role.

In k1 though, don't even bother playing the sentinel. The force powers arent strong enough to justify sacrificing as much melee as you do. Nearly all resisted, so you end up gimping yourself (which pains me as I have grown to love the sentinel and I'm sort of a sentinel personality in real life ). It's a lot more extreme in K1. Either you go for combat all-out with a lightsaber OR you go for devastating force powers as a consular.


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Old 03-02-2007, 10:03 PM   #21
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conclusions from above:

1) best combo for jedi master using LS powers only: guardian->jedi master
2) best combo for open powers jedi master is sentinel->jedi master
3) best combo for sith lord: sentinel->sith lord (can use consular for max force attacks at the expense of melee power
4) assassin and watchman aren't any where near the power of the other classes
5) there are enough items that boost your character in the game to make any combination viable and easy enough to pass the game. This is why you can actually end up as a decent dualist at the end of a consular-master/lord when you absolutely suck at melee for the start of the game.
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