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Old 07-11-2007, 07:10 AM   #1
Homespout
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If there was a JK4 or DF6

I'm sure this topic i'm about to bring up has been discussed to death, likely by minds much more intelligent than my own. However i'm sure the points i'm about to bring up have been clearly viewed and experienced by people who have and still on occasion play the jk games.
And getting to those points, i believe some will agree with me that if there ever is a sequel, the battle system must be drasticly changed. One only needs to see how it can be abused to know that it can not be fairly used by all players. Don't get me wrong, i've enjoyed very much my time spent playing and "mastering" the finer points of it, but it is limited in flexibility and eventually you are left using the same effective attacks over and over again.

First and foremost, to combat "sweeping" and general "spamming" of attacks i believe a stamina or fatigue system should be implemented. One that works in such a way that the more you swing in a limited time frame, and/or the stronger your swings are, the higher the level of fatigue you experience. The higher level of fatigue you experience directly translates into your lessened effectiveness to block/parry attacks, the speed at which you can make your next attacks, and a slightly decreased movement speed. The time that it takes to regenerate stamina, and the maximum negative effects possible are of course balance issues, and require testing that is impossible at this time. Theres alot more i could go into but this like some of my other points/suggestions has likely been discussed before.

Secondly, in an effort to add a more unique player experience, and differentiate between individuals, i would highly suggest more of an rpg element added in.
.Strength (Increased probability of bypassing defenses/increased dmg)
.Endurance (Affects health level/ stamina regeneration)
.Agility (Affects ability to block/parry/lessen dmg from attacks recieved?)
.Technique (Affects attack recovery speed/number of additional stances?)
With the ability to configure stats, people who don't want/need to use preconfigured moves to win can put the points in something more useful to their play style. There are again others i could think of, but you get the idea.

Thirdly in order to have some kind of difference between true experience, and natural game talent. I would propose an experience point based system that follows your individual character and caps at a certain level (perhaps A Lord/Master?). Perhaps it's based upon total time played+enemies defeated? And each rank (padawan/apprentice/jedi etc.) adds a certain number of points per upgrade to allocate to stats. The more i go on the more this probably sounds like an mmorpg, but the formula can be kept rather simple.

And lastly some type of physic's _must_ be implemented to keep players from from simply turning the mouse during an attack and increasing the speed/defense in an abusing manner, far past their stat allocation range.

Currently at 6am this is all i can elaborate on atm. I'm interested to know what everyone thinks about this, whether i'm beating a dead horse, or i just need to stfu.

Last edited by Homespout; 07-11-2007 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:57 AM   #2
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Everything sounds interesting there, except for the experience point system. That means everyone who has been playing for a while will be much more powerful than a newbie, making starting the game frustrating.

And yes, physiscs would be necessary. Definitely.


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Old 07-11-2007, 02:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orj
Everything sounds interesting there, except for the experience point system. That means everyone who has been playing for a while will be much more powerful than a newbie, making starting the game frustrating.

And yes, physiscs would be necessary. Definitely.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention, an oversight on my part. There are a few methods that could be used to balance this. One might be to start with half the points readily available, and the other half earned through time/kills. Another could be that you start with all the points, but they are evenly distributed among all the stats and can only be focused individualy as you increase in experience. Or it could be worked around, by providing "training grounds", places that only certain ranks are allowed to venture. Leaving the strongest of opponents to fight only those of similar standings. The levels should of course reflect on these skill levels, becoming more difficult and dangerous to maneuver in. It would be up to the server host to set min. and max. level of experience allowed.
Perhaps hosting a game with bots and playing against them would have a similar effect of gaining experience, so those who would rather enter the mp scene a sith lord/jedi master has the option to do so.
Talking about this has also given me another idea, i wonder if anyone remembers the game Die By the Sword. You actually controlled the weapon in a free swing enviroment by mouse or numpad keys. Perhaps with enough points put into Technique you can access this feature, and gain the ability to customize your idle stance and attack animations through an in-game stance customization screen. One that shows depending on where and how the saber is moved a probable defensive or offensive bonus. (it's as complex in theory as it would be to implement.) This would have to be fleshed out a whole lot more to even be worth suggesting, but it's an idea.
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Old 07-11-2007, 07:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homespout
Talking about this has also given me another idea, i wonder if anyone remembers the game Die By the Sword. You actually controlled the weapon in a free swing enviroment by mouse or numpad keys. Perhaps with enough points put into Technique you can access this feature, and gain the ability to customize your idle stance and attack animations through an in-game stance customization screen. One that shows depending on where and how the saber is moved a probable defensive or offensive bonus. (it's as complex in theory as it would be to implement.) This would have to be fleshed out a whole lot more to even be worth suggesting, but it's an idea.
Tell me, have you played Determinance? It's a sword fighting game, sword controlled by the mouse, if you have the full version you can customize your stance, special attacks, etc. It's a lot like what you described.

You can download the demo at www.mode7games.com if you are interested.


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Old 07-12-2007, 04:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orj
Tell me, have you played Determinance? It's a sword fighting game, sword controlled by the mouse, if you have the full version you can customize your stance, special attacks, etc. It's a lot like what you described.

You can download the demo at www.mode7games.com if you are interested.
Never played it but it looks fun, however upon reading reviews of it, it would seem it is another example of potential untapped. Thinking about it now, i could imagine there being a problem keeping up with the attacks of people using the standard pre-set moves, not to mention (manual?) blocking. I suppose it's worth trying just to get an idea of how they applied it.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:33 AM   #6
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Take a small trip over to the OJP forum. OJP (Open Jedi Project) is a mod for JKA which totally changes and balances out the guns/sabers/force powers so any player will have an equal chance of being able to win. Including a completely new saber system which is more movie-like than spam-like :P

http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=542
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homespout
Thinking about it now, i could imagine there being a problem keeping up with the attacks of people using the standard pre-set moves, not to mention (manual?) blocking. I suppose it's worth trying just to get an idea of how they applied it.
What if there aren't any pre-set moves?

If the sword/lightsaber/big pointy stick/whatever is controlled by the mouse, manual blocking isn't as hard as it sounds. In Determinance, you can often see where your opponenet is going to hit and move your blade to intercept it.


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Old 07-12-2007, 07:38 PM   #8
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I tried the determinence demo, and i didn't like it for a number of reasons, which i won't get into, but i will say i didn't find the combat nearly as engaging as i imagined. I think the OJP is worth extensive playing though, wish i'd heard of it sooner.
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Old 07-13-2007, 04:24 PM   #9
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I felt kinda the same way. Maybe it's different with the full version, or maybe we're just spoiled by Jedi Academy. I know you can get different types of weapons in the full version. That might help a bit, I wouldn't know.


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