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Old 11-03-2007, 07:42 AM   #36
Ray Jones
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Originally Posted by Totenkopf
Not killing exclusively. However, killing something that doesn't threaten you directly (swatting a fly, stepping on a bug) seems to fall under what you appear to be railing about: the cavalier and seemingly hypocritical treatment of God's/god's creatures b/c they fail to satisfy some arbitrary (from your pov anyway) assessment of the value of God's/god's "lesser" life forms.
You missed the point again. Forget the killing. It's one step before that.

As this thread is about the nature of sin, it's not unfair to conclude that you were questioning a "a firm believer's" sense of sin via your cockroach example.
Yes, right direction.

The underlying assumption w/in your challenge is the idea that all life is equal in value in God's/god's eyes, regardless of whatever your personal belief system is.

You imply that it may well matter to God/god, but then insist that it shouldn't/can't. Don't know what to make of that.
It matters to god how you think about his creatures, that's a small step before you going to treat any of them, and makes a difference. Hence the pure fact that one of his creatures ceased living cannot matter to him, at least regarding the aspect of sin.

So, why assume that a God/god you don't believe in anyway would be offended that you kill/hurt/disrespect a cockroach simply b/c He/he created it?
It doesn't matter what I do believe or not. What matters is that if you tell me I will go to hell because I am a sinner because I don't believe in your god and that you are the one who's gonna be saved because you accepted god into your heart and god is your truth, that is plain controversial to any comment containing disrespectful statements about your god's work. It's not so much about god or any belief in the first place, but double standards, ignorance and presumptuousness, regardless if you see this from a religious point of view, or a scientific.

Who's to say why such things were put here in the first place.
I think I am not. Are you? But that's basically the point. Who decides what's a "good" being, and what's a "bad" one? Which has a purpose, which not. Where do we draw the line? You cannot have a fully fledged (god made?) eco-system and then take out what you don't like to see.

Originally Posted by Corinthian
I don't see it as being a problem when you destroy a creature that invaded your territory. Just about every other predator on Earth does it.
Every creature, predator or not, which is "defending" its territory does not do this because it "thinks" that the other one is "worthless".

Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I respect creatures.
You know, respect does not just start where you not going to kill someone/something.

But compared to humans, I wouldn't even think twice.
Fine. Me too. Again: not the point in question.

Perhaps you could find that out before you go out trying to make us all look like sadistic hypocrites with your little rant....
Perhaps statements like "they're one hair above dirt" combined with "I believe in god, that he created everything and his word is teh law rana rana" make you look like hypocrites on your own. Maybe you could think about that. Imagine but one second what your god might think when you call his work use- and worthless. You all defend the principle of sin (which is also a creation of your god) or even the existence of Satan as necessary for free will to exist and so on, despite the fact that is causes so much suffering, but when it comes to a simple creature, also made by god, you go "Bah. Away with it!"

Secondly, what would you do? Would you treat your brother better than an insect? If it was a choice, which would you choose? Would you choose one simply because the species has survived longer than the other?
Choose what? My brother over a cockroach when both lives are in danger? Come on. This is not about choosing. It's about that one cannot spout god's oh so true words upon everybody who thinks different, and how one must respect religion and whatnot, and at the same time talk disrespectful about any other of god's creatures! Is that a so difficult logic to follow?

Last edited by Ray Jones; 11-03-2007 at 08:16 AM.
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