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Old 10-12-2007, 09:21 PM   #1
Meowster
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Neverwinter Nights

Greetings everyone. Well, from what I've seen using the 'search' that Neverwinter Nights is a well known game around here.

So I looked up some info on it and found that it looked pretty good, and wondered about what other people recommended/thought about it. So what do you think of it? Should I get it? Whether it matters if I play the first, or second one first, would complicate things?

Thanks, Meowster.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:49 PM   #2
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NWN is a great game. The graphics are dated, but the story is wonderful. There is a huge spoiler if you play NWN2 first, but it is even better. Great story, great graphics, and improved game mechanics. If you have tons of time, do NWN first, then go straight into NWN2.


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Old 10-12-2007, 11:15 PM   #3
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Get it, for sure. Easily 60+ hours of awesomeness. Make sure to pick up the one with the bundled expansions.


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Old 10-12-2007, 11:28 PM   #4
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Yep, both NWN and NWN2 are excellent games, highly recommend them.


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Old 10-12-2007, 11:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo fett 66
NWN is a great game. The graphics are dated, but the story is wonderful.


You weren't talking about the NWN1 OC of all mad things, were you?

NWN is a great game. The original campaign by BioWare, however, is very poorly written and populated with characterless characters that is made all the worse by how long it is. Don't play it. But there is still hope! The first expansion, Shadows of Undrentide, is okay but only really there if you want some background info for the second expansion, Hordes of the Underdark. It starts at level 15 and ends around 25 so the high-level gameplay is a lot of fun, as are the settings. (Undermountain, the Underdark, and Hell.) It's also got an excellent series of fan-made modules (which I regret having not yet finished) that follow up on it, starting with Shadows over Heliopolis, and followed by Gem Tower and Pyramid of the Ancients. I'm a sucker for Epic-level gameplay, and the fact that it goes up to level 40 adds a lot of fun.

There's some other good fan-made modules out there, with the two ADWR modules being some of my favorite ones. It's a ton of fun and has a rather dark and gritty storyline set in recently conquered city where almost everyone wants to take advantage of your PC however they can. If you're very religious, against premarital sex or don't like sexual content, btw, it probably isn't for you - the module is full of it. (I said dark and gritty, didn't I?)

There's a ton of other good-looking ones I've not yet had the chance to play, though stoffe and ChAiNz could probably give you some recommendations.

NWN2 is still in its infancy, and hasn't yet produced any particularly exceptional modules made by fans. The OC for it isn't bad, but it's not good either. MotB, however, looks to be a different story completely - I've heard nothing but good things from the reviews and people I know who've played it. (Grr, my copy still hasn't arrived yet!) Since it stands alone from the NWN2 OC you can also jump into it with a new character who gets leveled up 18, which is useful if you'd rather play an excellent-sounding campaign than an okay one. It looks pretty dark too, what with your PC carrying a curse that requires them to devour the souls of others to stay alive.

In summary: Yes, they're both a lot of fun and definitely worth getting.


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Old 10-13-2007, 12:18 AM   #6
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Aah. Thanks for the advice. I think though I would try it first without the expansion....just for a feel of it. It uses the d20 system correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
NWN is a great game. The original campaign by BioWare, however, is very poorly written and populated with characterless characters that is made all the worse by how long it is. Don't play it.
Is it really that bad? Maybe not...but it isn't bad to try the original out first, is it?

I'll look for it on eBay...I can't find the first one at the stores anymore.

EDIT: It seems I found the Diamond Edition on eBay at a very good prize. All expansions included.

Last edited by Meowster; 10-13-2007 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Quote wrong/ News
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Old 10-13-2007, 12:45 AM   #7
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I liked the original campaign. I Liked it doubly when traveling through it with buddies.

Every Wal-mart I've ever been in to has the Diamond pack of NWN that comes with the expansions. It only retails for 18.82 there too. Linky

If your Walmart doesn't have it, I recommend getting it at GoGamer.com. It's only 14.90 there and shipping is pretty low too. I've bought quite a bit from them in the past and highly recommend them.
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Old 10-13-2007, 12:54 AM   #8
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Really? Well the bid is set for now, my large bid for Oblivion was out-bidded yet again...from all of the Wal-marts I've been at there was only the second one. Or maybe it was just sold out whenever I visited?

Well, without giving away spoilers, is there any way possible to give a brief summary?

The price for the New Diamond version was seven dollars, with four dollars shipping. Really reasonable.
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Old 10-13-2007, 01:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meowster
Aah. Thanks for the advice. I think though I would try it first without the expansion....just for a feel of it. It uses the d20 system correct?
Yep, the 3.0 D&D rules.

The expansion is essential. Both of the modules I've listed are impossible to play with out it, and the only good campaign BioWare made is in it. If you'd like to get a feel for it, just download the demo instead. That's on the BioWare page somewhere.

These days it's even more difficult to find the original game than a the diamond/platinum edition that comes with it and the two expansion packs. It's quite cheap, too; something like $15 most places. (Tracking down a copy of just the original game will probably cost you more.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meowster
Is it really that bad? Maybe not...but it isn't bad to try the original out first, is it?
Why would you need to? Apart from the glaringly obvious tutorial you're given on how to play the game at the start of the OC, there's really no reason to play it. The story is awful. Synopsis:

An incurable plague ravages the city of Neverwinter. Its government opens up a hero academy for low-level adventurers to save the city. (Why they think being good with a sword could lead to curing a plague or why they don't use their already high-level paladins and clerics is not explained.) A cure is then delivered from Waterdeep that involves four hard-to-find creatures, and naturally it gets sent to the hero academy rather than somewhere secure like Castle Never. The academy is attacked and the creatures are lost. Your PC is sent on a fetching mission to find them, while the city's (poorly VO'd) highest-level paladin twiddles her thumbs away from the sick and any danger as you bring them back. Upon the creation of the cure it gets stolen by a character who has always been rude to you and the people portrayed as the good guys. You track him down and he gets killed. Naturally he rambles something about an evil cult he is part of before death. The paladin's lover also gets killed because he didn't think the bad guy was a bad guy.

Your PC is then sent outside the city to track down this cult by walking randomly across the countryside to stumble upon four bits of evidence, which are all journals/letters various minor villains have been kind enough to write down all their schemes on, including the cult's base of operations in Luskan. The paladin in the meanwhile vanishes. You then break into Luskan's Hosttower and hack your way through various wizards and monsters before seeing a ritual where a lizard-woman and bald man turn the paladin into a blackguard. The bald man has also been kind enough to record all his schemes in a journal of his own, which says that he is a megalomaniac looking for the Words of Power. (tm)

You are then sent to another random part of the countryside to wander around looking for these Words of Power, which you are naturally all located less than a mile apart from each other. Finding said Words involves hackfests through groups of monsters that have decided to guard them. The paladin-turned-blackguard has also marshaled a giant army and is sweeping across the land without opposition. She soon attacks Neverwinter and your PC is called back to defend it. You then have a hackfest through all the Luskan troops, naturally without any assistance from the army that's supposed to defend the city. You eventually reach the paladin, fight her, and if she gave you a ring in an earlier conversation you can convince her to turn her back on her cause and face execution in about twenty words. You also meet the bald man in the next room, who laughs insanely saying no one can stop him. Several combat rounds later you do just that. You also find out there is an ancient race of lizards who when the climate changed for an unexplained reason sealed their civilization up in a small stone. Somehow the bald man was able to find and contact them. They now want out, and let loose that plague just for the hell of it. The Words, scattered across the land for reason, are also able to unlock the stone they're in for another unexplained one. Your character journeys into the stone and hacks his way through the lizards. You eventually find their queen. She says she will kill you. You kill her. The stone explodes. The end.

That's that... Unremarkable, wasn't it? Cookie-cutter plot, characterless villains, incompetent good guys, and a PC with no connection to any of them who's able to save the world.

But really, don't let that turn you off. Hordes of the Underdark and the various fan-made modules are all excellent and make the game more than worth getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meowster
I'll look for it on eBay...I can't find the first one at the stores anymore.
http://www.amazon.com/Neverwinter-Ni...2248757&sr=8-1


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Old 10-13-2007, 01:31 AM   #10
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Heh-heh. Yes, that sounds like a relatively simple plot.
It actually sounds vaguely similar to Fable...both with simple plots, the incompatent good-guys and stuff...
And well, I think Bioware is a great company but...I happen to love with what Obsidian does with plots. so I guess I'll be looking forward to the second one alot.

Although that synopsis didn't seem...that long for the game. But I guess the expantions will certainly made up for it. The way your are all describing it is making me want it more and more! ...Just three more days.

I'll also look for those mods which you mentioned.
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Old 10-13-2007, 07:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
hero academy
I don't think anything more need be said about NWN's OC. But I disagree about NWN2, aside from Act 1 I think the game came out rather well. The trial, the siege of Crossroad Keep and the battle with the KoS are some classic gaming moments for me - along with a certain death...


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Old 10-13-2007, 08:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meowster
Although that synopsis didn't seem...that long for the game. But I guess the expantions will certainly made up for it. The way your are all describing it is making me want it more and more! ...Just three more days.
The synopsis posted by Devon is of course extremely simplified and makes no mention of the hundreds of sidequests and sub-quests in the game. There is more to the game than that.

But generally I'll agree that the NWN1 campaign was somewhat lackluster, it felt more like a tech demo for the Aurora engine/toolset than a game on par with previous Bioware stories like that of Baldur's Gate. I think I played through it twice before getting bored of it, once when I first got the game, and then another time with loads of mods and custom content installed.

Thankfully the NWN1 campaign is just a very small part of the Neverwinter Nights game though.There are loads of campaigns, modules and new content made by the modding community to play. Some of it very impressive both in storytelling and gameplay execution. If you do get the game I'd recommend you browse the Hall of Fame lists on http://NWVault.ign.com/ and pick up some mods there.

The first expansion, Shadows of Undrentide (SoU) was a fair bit better in the storytelling department, even though I didn't like it much for some reason I can't quite put a finger on (and thus I only played it once). You start over from level 1 with a new character in this. The story here is more of a "save the world from a troublemaker", with some elements of revenge splashed onto it. It's fairly standard fantasy, the setting being Faerun near and in the Aranoch desert.

The second expansion, Hordes of the Underdark (HotU) improved storytelling further and is IMO the best of the campaigns made by Bioware for the original game made. It continues where SoU left off with the same protagonist, leading you to start the game at around level 15-18, and then advance into Epic (20+) levels. It starts out fairly standard in Waterdeep with the city falling under attack by Dark Elves pouring into the city from the Underdark. You head down to investigate, but have to find your way through Undermountain first, a death-trap filled labyrinth beneath the city constructed by some insane arch-mage. After finding your way through that you finally end up in the Underdark where you try to put a stop to the dark elf threat to the city, until the plot twist sets the game off in an entirely new direction and you end up in a planar adventure for quite a while. As such the game offers fairly interesting story, quests and characters.


As for Neverwinter Nights 2 that campaign was a lot better and felt more like a real full game than the predecessor. The story may not be the most amazing thing ever written, being a typical fantasy "save the world" plot, but it's certainly better than the majority of the game stories, fairly long, and interesting enough.

The NWN2 expansion pack Mask of the Betrayer campaign has a darker, less traditional story and theme than the NWN2 campaign. MotB has more of a "save yourself" theme, though the path you choose certainly have quite an impact on the world. This expansion also introduces Epic levels to the game.


mt
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Old 10-13-2007, 01:51 PM   #13
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Wow! So, what exactly is a campaign? Just, whenever I hear campaign, I think of Age of Empires/ Mythology. So I'm supposing campaigns are just differant storylines, which you get through the expansion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
Thankfully the NWN1 campaign is just a very small part of the Neverwinter Nights game though.There are loads of campaigns, modules and new content made by the modding community to play. Some of it very impressive both in storytelling and gameplay execution. If you do get the game I'd recommend you browse the Hall of Fame lists on http://NWVault.ign.com/ and pick up some mods there.

I did just check out some of the mods, and they looks very impressive. So I guess the original campaign is horrible then...oh well, these mods might help bring that up!

In terms of character, how well does that go?
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Old 10-13-2007, 07:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meowster
Wow! So, what exactly is a campaign? Just, whenever I hear campaign, I think of Age of Empires/ Mythology. So I'm supposing campaigns are just differant storylines, which you get through the expansion?
Pretty much. A campaign is just a long module/storyline made for NWN. If it didn't run off the Aurora engine could be called a game of its own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meowster
In terms of character, how well does that go?
Depends on the campaign, really, but there's always interesting people in the good ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
The first expansion, Shadows of Undrentide (SoU) was a fair bit better in the storytelling department, even though I didn't like it much for some reason I can't quite put a finger on (and thus I only played it once).
That the characters and plot were rather bland?


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Old 10-13-2007, 08:19 PM   #15
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Meowster, if the game doesn't involve complex political intrigue and lots of psychological angst and moral ambiguity, Devon doesn't like it, so that his opinion for what it's worth.

It's a fun game.


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Old 10-13-2007, 09:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
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It's a fun game.
This is coming from someone who hasn't downloaded a single fan-made module or even opened the toolset. :P You've not played NWN, shoo, get out of this thread! Get out!

(But yes, it is a fun game. And no, the OC, which is the only thing you've played, doesn't count!)


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Old 10-13-2007, 11:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Meowster, if the game doesn't involve complex political intrigue and lots of psychological angst and moral ambiguity, Devon doesn't like it, so that his opinion for what it's worth.
I'll be sure to remember that, Jae.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
Depends on the campaign, really, but there's always interesting people in the good ones.
That's good to here. if the plot is simple-minded and unfun, I'd want some memorable characters then. Kinda like KotOR, even though the plot was fairly good, it was over cliched...and characters like Carth. and Jolee made up for it.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:18 AM   #18
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Here I thought I knew nwn after playing a bit into chapter 2, but noooo, after starting hotu, I played trough the night and ended up failing a test misserably. My belowed shifter is incinerating undead as a dragon before smacking them senceless as a golem, all to the singing of deekin dragon bane. In short, yes you should get it.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:59 PM   #19
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Yes, NWN & its expansions are worth buying.

Though the OC & SoU sucked, I think you should play through them once just to get the backstory of the game before moving on to HotU, which features characters from the previous two campaigns.

NWN seems to cater to the hack n' slash crowd more than it does to spell-casters (unlike Baldur's Gate 1&2), and that's my chief complaint about it. I don't know if NWN2 is geared the same way or not because I've never played it.

And, well, the graphics suck, pure and simple. So much so that it's hard to believe that KotOR came out only a year later. It's an ugly game, but it's fun.


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Old 11-12-2007, 09:23 PM   #20
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I myself got the game awhile ago, but didn't want to update this for fear it would be considered bumping...

Anywho, I am currently playing through the original scenario, and the first expansion pack (forget what it is called at the moment.) I do like the character creation system that they use, and am wondering why they didn't use that for KotOR? ( such as Lawful Good, Neutral Bad, Chaotic good etc.) although, it is probably because there is only 'good and evil' as GL wanted.

Anyways, I am liking the Expansion better than the original story, although, how exactly do I do multiplayer? All of the 'groups' are either gray or red, and it won't let me connect to them.
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Old 11-13-2007, 01:21 PM   #21
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NWN seems to cater to the hack n' slash crowd more than it does to spell-casters (unlike Baldur's Gate 1&2), and that's my chief complaint about it. I don't know if NWN2 is geared the same way or not because I've never played it.
NWN2's OC is pretty damn easy with any pure class or build. You can even beat the game using just your companions - even with a completely retarded PC build; something like Druid 4/ Sorceror 4/ Wizard 4/ Cleric 4/ Warlock 4 can still beat the game. Or you'd be able to complete it solo if it wasn't for the characters that are required party members at various times. Lol.

The expansion pack, Mask of the Betrayer, is a cakewalk with melee-based characters because of the way they implemented post-epic BAB that gives a load of extra attacks per turn, on top of a permanent hasting ring for another attack, on top of completely ridiculous crafted weapons with 15d6 (or more) elemental damage.

Compare that with spellcasters, whose most powerful spells are capped at 25 caster levels, it leaves the game irreparably unbalanced. If the level cap is ever moved to 40 then epic spellcasters will have to rely heavily on using death magic, and not every enemy is vulnerable to it. Having said that, the combat is still more enjoyable than in KotOR, for instance... IMO.

And I agree about NWN's graphics. Hell, the Infinity Engine games looked better, if anything, even if they were 2D.

Anyway, despite their various issues, both games are still really good fun. The really great thing about the original NWN is that BW are still patching it with improvements, even now, although I believe the next one will be the last one. I sincerely doubt future games will get that kind of love with EA holding the leash.


...

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Old 11-20-2007, 09:42 AM   #22
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Embarassingly enough, I'm still playing the first NWN It's great fun though, and I rather enjoy talking to the henchmen. Though I would never call Tomi a friend. Not on the pain of death, which would be considerably milder than anything he might dish out:/

Why did they have to kill off the cute elf?!:P



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Old 11-20-2007, 12:50 PM   #23
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Playing NWN is what made me play KotOR. I really nevery had any interest in the SW universe ... but I was soooo drawn in by NWN (well, HotU, to be more precise) that I needed another BioWare fix...pronto!!

Actually, I'm just running through the OC again ... playing with different henchmen...having fun with the gnomish sorcerer...(played the first time through with the Evil dwarvish monk...and my CG sorcerer)...but, HotU...*sigh*...actually the thing that got me started writing fanfic. So, you all can blame my addled ramblings on that..


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Old 11-20-2007, 04:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balderdash
Anyway, despite their various issues, both games are still really good fun. The really great thing about the original NWN is that BW are still patching it with improvements, even now, although I believe the next one will be the last one. I sincerely doubt future games will get that kind of love with EA holding the leash.
More than the EA on top, I worry with the decision of Atari to sop doing games.


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Old 11-21-2007, 12:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Hoon
Embarrassingly enough, I'm still playing the first NWN It's great fun though, and I rather enjoy talking to the henchmen. Though I would never call Tomi a friend. Not on the pain of death, which would be considerably milder than anything he might dish out:/

Why did they have to kill off the cute elf?!:P

If you had her friendship ring she didn't necessary die. You never know who you will run into in the expansion packs. :shifty:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
More than the EA on top, I worry with the decision of Atari to stop doing games.
They only stopped developing games not publishing games from developers like Obsidian or Bioware.


Not all those who wander are lost.-J.R.R. Tolkien

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it but by it I see everything else - C.S. Lewis
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Old 11-21-2007, 01:54 PM   #26
Balderdash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
More than the EA on top, I worry with the decision of Atari to sop doing games.
Atari only stopped doing in-house projects; they are still publishing games. That decision shouldn't really affect the NWN franchise at this point. If anything, if publishing is where they are placing their hopes, this suggests that they intend to keep the ball rolling with NWN.

Even if Atari go out of business completely, D&D games are only licensed to Atari... so the buck could concievably pass to another publisher, in that event... hypothetically speaking.

EA acquiring (assimilating) BioWare on the other hand, means that if they don't think the Doctors are having their staff spend their time in a cost effective way, they will put a stop to it. This means no more patches to games that are no longer making the company money. Which was my point.

(Sorry mods if this was semi-off-topic, but I felt the need to clarify my other comments).


...
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Old 11-24-2007, 01:01 AM   #27
Bee Hoon
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Aratoeldar, I meant Fenthick:/ :shifty: Indeed, how they didn't talk about her fate at the end of the OC is dodgy indeed. I just started SoU...



The sun goes down and the sky reddens, pain grows sharp.
light dwindles. Then is evening
when jasmine flowers open, the deluded say.
But evening is the great brightening dawn
when crested cocks crow all through the tall city
and evening is the whole day
for those without their lovers

-Kuruntokai 234, translated by A.K. Ramanujan

[Fic] Shreds of a Dying Belief
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