Why are some people gay?

[El Sitherino]

Indeed. Just like how I'm awesome.

[Totenkopf]

Ah, yes, man's amazing capacity for self-delusion.

[Ray Jones]

No, it's one of the most important universal constants! IS = aVl/e+s(0)^mE


I think this has been said earlier in this thread, what you personally like and what you do not, is not a choice. It's based on environment and experiences, just like with all other things you like/dislike. The only choices we make is how we gonna deal with it (i.e. denial, acceptance, shove it down the world's throat, etc).

[Totenkopf]

What, pray tell, are your experiences made up of if not at least some acts of personal choice? This insistence that people are somehow not responsible for what they do is a little too convenient. However, how we deal with things is (as you note) still a personal choice. So, if I have an impulse to pummel you into dirt, am I not responsible for doing that if I choose to act on that impulse (ie dealing with it)?

[Ray Jones]

Where did I say people are not responsible for what they do? I said they are not directly responsible for what they like.

Just like the question was "why are people gay - born, choice, w/e?" and not "why are people engaging in gay practises - born, choice, w/e?"

[Totenkopf]

Originally Posted by Ray Jones

I think this has been said earlier in this thread, what you personally like and what you do not, is not a choice. It's based on environment and experiences, just like with all other things you like/dislike. The only choices we make is how we gonna deal with it (i.e. denial, acceptance, shove it down the world's throat, etc).

How does one determine what they like and not like in life if not by making choices? Seriously, if you're going to take the position that we have no control over what we like and don't like, why argue we have any choices at all in the first place? I didn't like spinach at one point in my life, now I do. That pretty much qualifies as having a degree of control over what you like/don't like. Unless you can show where in the human genome are the irreversible markers that say "Ray can like this, but not this" then it's silly to argue that people have no control/choice over their likes and dislikes, not merely their reactions to said objects.

[Ray Jones]

Did you chose to dislike it first and later to like it just like "snap from now on I'll like spinach", or was it more like you tried it because mom said so, and thought "naaah" and tried again later when mom didn't say so anymore and found it to be somewhat better? I mean *I* never actively chose to like things, I just experience them to be fine to me (or the other way around).

[RobQel-Droma]

^Still doesn't answer the original question: if I wanted to murder you, would that be a choice? One wonders how we can judge notorious criminals if they had no choice about what they did.

[Jvstice]

Sexual orientation isn't a choice at least for men. Whether it is for women or not, I can't say from my own experiences. But I would never choose to be gay, and the idea of experimenting in that way doesn't appeal to me at all.

As far as nature or nuture:
There is an SRY gene on the Y chromosome that does have a slight prediction value of homosexuality or heterosexuality in men. That does point to genetic factors. After a mother has more than one son, each individual son after that is more likely to be gay than the one previous. They think that may be an environmental factor, but in the womb, not in the actual genes. Matt Ridley devotes considerable discussion to both of these factors in his book Genome: the autobiography of a species in 23 chapters.

Evidence for whether nature or nurture plays a bigger role in preferences for women in general is more sketchy even than that, or at least was the last time I looked.

Rob: That's a non sequiter. To my knowledge there are no large segments of the population that has an overwhelming biological urge to murder and a predisposition of who only an afterthought to the actual act.

[Ray Jones]

Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma

^Still doesn't answer the original question: if I wanted to murder you, would that be a choice?

I think it does. If you wanted to kill me, it's not that you actively chose it to be like that. Just as you don't actively decide that you have appetite for bananas when you notice you're hungry, your appetite is just *there*. When you give in to your wantings and perform a kill on me, it's your active choice to do so, just like you decide to go for a banana lunch.

One wonders how we can judge notorious criminals if they had no choice about what they did.

Oh, but they have a choice. Even if you eagerly want to kill me, because I always tie your bootstraps together, you have the clear choice whether you actually going to kill me or not. Maybe you decide not to do so and buy shoes without bootstraps instead, annoying me in a way that I lose all my hair and erectional power eventually. Your path of action, your choice.

I know you now gonna say, "but you know, that means gay people actually choose to have teh gay secks!"

While that is correct, this threads title still reads "Why are some people gay?" and not "Why do some people act gay?"

In other words, people are not gay because they perform same sex actions, they are gay because they are attracted to the same sex.

[El Sitherino]

Originally Posted by Ray Jones

In other words, people are not gay because they perform same sex actions, they are gay because they are attracted to the same sex.

Exactly. I hate how all these homosexuality debates always revolve around the act of intercourse. Some people are straight yet never have sex with a single woman/man.

[Totenkopf]

Yeah, b/c they're too busy having it with other married people.

[RobQel-Droma]

Originally Posted by Ray Jones

I think it does. If you wanted to kill me, it's not that you actively chose it to be like that. Just as you don't actively decide that you have appetite for bananas when you notice you're hungry, your appetite is just *there*. When you give in to your wantings and perform a kill on me, it's your active choice to do so, just like you decide to go for a banana lunch.

Ah, thanks for clarifying, then; I see what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Jvstice

To my knowledge there are no large segments of the population that has an overwhelming biological urge to murder and a predisposition of who only an afterthought to the actual act.

To my knowledge there aren't any large segments of the population that have an overwhelming biological urge to perform homosexual acts, either.

[Kain]

I dunno. That section of San Francisco is pretty much predisposed toward homosexuality...

[Kylilin]

Why are some people gay?

I have a better question, Is it really all that important that we have a definitive answer on why people are gay?

Here's the answer: in the grand scheme of things, its not.

[Nedak]

Most people are gay, are born gay...

I know people who are gay, and have been so all their lives... It can be explained pretty scientifically.

Though, some dramatic circumstances (such as molestation) may result in the individual's orientation to change.