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Old 05-27-2008, 04:27 AM   #41
Ray Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Only that lots of things started out buried and ended up not buried over time.
I already granted the possibility that life might have originated some way down in the ground. But rather significantly higher than a mile deep.

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Which part of your point do you feel that I am missing?

That the earth was once hotter?
Yap. Especially one mile down the crust.

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I haven't contested that.
Sure, you have not contested that.

Hee, you know what, for some strange reason I'd be somewhat excited about possible arguments one might have there, supporting the idea that Earth was in fact cooler back then or at least that it's temperature is now about the same as it was when life originated... :~~~



Last edited by Ray Jones; 05-27-2008 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 05-27-2008, 05:13 AM   #42
Achilles
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I already granted the possibility that life might have originated some way down in the ground. But rather significantly higher than a mile deep.
We're probably good then. Remember my whole thing why trying to figure out why Gurges-Ahter felt it had to happen at the surface.

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Yap. Especially one mile down the crust.
I'm not. I hope that helps you feel better about our conversation

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Sure, you have not contested that.
Should I have?

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Hee, you know what, for some strange reason I'd be somewhat excited about possible arguments one might have there, supporting the idea that Earth was in fact cooler back then or at least that it's temperature is now about the same as it was when life originated... :~~~
Given the prevalence of methane, I doubt it. Absence of frozen water at the poles reflecting UV back out into space also makes that one difficult.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:17 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I'm not.
Cool. Means we could basically safely conclude that in that time life has not developed at depths of one mile or even only half a mile etc, simply because it was too hot there back then, and it must have crept all the way down there from above. That this 'above' might be knee deep within the sediment or some kind of mudflat is another question.

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Should I have?
Nah. What for?


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Old 05-27-2008, 07:28 AM   #44
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Cool. Means we could basically safely conclude that in that time life has not developed at depths of one mile or even only half a mile etc, simply because it was too hot there back then, and it must have crept all the way down there from above. That this 'above' might be knee deep within the sediment or some kind of mudflat is another question.
Don't know that I'd go that far.

If you could provide models of earth's crust from 3 billion years ago that accurately show mean temperature by depth, then I think we could begin ruling this out or that out intelligently.

Am I willing to share your assumption that depths of one mile were mostly likely way too hot back then? Yes. Am I willing to share your assumption that this automatically means that abiogenesis took place at the surface? No, not really. Does this mean that I've automatically ruled out that it did happen at the surface? Certainly not.
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Old 05-28-2008, 09:20 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
If you could provide models of earth's crust from 3 billion years ago that accurately show mean temperature by depth, then I think we could begin ruling this out or that out intelligently.
Try fission-track thermochronology:
link 1
link 2

Further material:
link 1
link 2

Moar intarsting reeds:
link 1
link 2
link 3

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Am I willing to share your assumption that depths of one mile were mostly likely way too hot back then? Yes.
Then why adhere to the deep crust abiogenesis?

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Am I willing to share your assumption that this automatically means that abiogenesis took place at the surface? No, not really.
I've not made such an assumption. I did not even say that life arose at the surface.


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Old 05-28-2008, 02:40 PM   #46
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I've not made such an assumption. I did not even say that life arose at the surface.
Since you're not advocating it and I'm not challenging it (per se), what are we doing here?
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Old 05-28-2008, 03:03 PM   #47
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look good? ^^


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Old 05-28-2008, 03:11 PM   #48
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Shucks, Mr. Jones, a couple of lady killers like ourselves don't need this thread to do that
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:42 AM   #49
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Seafloor Diversity Points to Origin of Life

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Much of the seafloor long thought to be barren is instead teeming with microbes, researchers said today.

Scientists now have found "thousands of times more bacteria on the seafloor than in the water above," according to a statement. The findings were made at two sites, suggesting that rich microbial life extends across the ocean floor, said University of Southern California geomicrobiologist Katrina J. Edwards.

These results, along with a separate discovery announced last week of life a mile below the seafloor, have scientists wondering if life on Earth began along shorelines or perhaps originated in the planet's marine belly.
Skipping ahead:
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The research supports the idea that some bacteria survive on energy from the crust, a process that could affect knowledge about the deep-sea carbon cycle and even the evolution of early life.

For example, many scientists think shallow water, not deep water, cradled the planet's first life. They reason that the dark carbon-poor depths appear to offer little energy, and rich environments like hydrothermal vents are relatively sparse. But the newfound abundance of seafloor microbes makes it theoretically possible that early life thrived-and maybe even began-on the seafloor.

"Some might even favor the deep ocean for the emergence of life since it was a bastion of stability compared with the surface, which was constantly being blasted by comets and other objects," Edwards said.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:35 AM   #50
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The hydrothermal vent communities at the mid-ocean ridges have gotten the lion's share of press when it comes to life on the deep ocean floor but there is another environment that provides the chemical nutrients to sustain a non-photosynthesis-based form of life. These are the cold seeps and related environments, where oil and methane gas are bubbling up from undersea sediment layers.
Cold Methane Environments on the Ocean Floor


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Surviving in Space
In November, 1969, the Surveyor 3 spacecraft's microorganisms were recovered from inside its camera that was brought back to Earth under sterile conditions by the Apollo 12 crew. The 50-100 organisms survived launch, space vacuum, 3 years of radiation exposure, deep-freeze at an average temperature of only 20 degrees above absolute zero, and no nutrient, water or energy source.
or
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Too Bizarre for Words (Bizarro-philes?)
Microbes that live in a bath of sulfuric acid which is produced as an intermediate product of their own metabolism.

Other Extreme Earth Life



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Old 05-29-2008, 02:45 PM   #51
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Shucks, Mr. Jones, a couple of lady killers like ourselves don't need this thread to do that
You two spend way too much time on these boards to achieve 'lady killer' status. You do both look good, however.


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Old 05-29-2008, 05:23 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
You two spend way too much time on these boards to achieve 'lady killer' status.
Stay on topic, Jae!!

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You do both look good, however.
Oh wait...


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Old 05-29-2008, 06:38 PM   #53
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I only need 8 seconds to rope a calf. I think Ray uses a club (not sure though).
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Old 05-30-2008, 05:58 PM   #54
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No need to be. It may have helped to read the article that was linked to in the first post before responding though.
I was practising my speed-reading skills. They need a bit of polishing, it seems
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