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Old 04-25-2007, 02:25 PM   #121
Darca Lar
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Darth Nihilus Drained entire planets of all life, kinda like force drain but at a very high magnitude.


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Old 04-25-2007, 02:31 PM   #122
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The true sith should be manipulative and use other people to do their dirty work.
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Old 04-26-2007, 01:07 PM   #123
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I now have an alternate theory, if those saying that the true Sith are a continuation of the Old Sith Empire who left after the Great Hyperspace War are correct. My previous theory was that they were a fusing of Xendor's line of Dark Jedi (the Legions of Lettow) and some traveling Sith species, having nothing to do with the line of Ajunta Pal, Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, etc.

My new theory is this: If the true Sith do indeed include the line of succession I just mentioned and the exiled Jedi from the Hundred Year Darkness, then there is a problem. Those Dark Jedi (and the Sith throughout the ages) have viewed themselves to be Xendor's successors, and even go so far as to call him the honorary first Dark Lord. But how? How are they in any way connected to Xendor's Legions of Lettow, which were said to be defeated in 24,500 BBY, if they were the successors of an entirely different group of schismatic Jedi who were exiled in 6,900 BBY?

I think that there must have been at least some of the Legions of Lettow who survived, hiding and waiting for 17,500 years for the perfect moment to overtake the Jedi; and that opportunity presented itself in 7,000 BBY when this new group of fallen Jedi showed up, Ajunta Pall being among them. The Lettow knew that this would be the perfect opportunity to double their numbers, so they sought out these fallen ones and convinced them to join forces, thus grafting Ajunta Pall and all of his followers onto the line of succession from Xendor. However, they still couldn't defeat the Jedi, and, as I'm sure you all know, they were exiled from Republic space, where they came upon Korriban and Ziost and conquered the Sith people.

This group abandoned Korriban and their empire following another defeat at the hands of the Jedi and the Republic in the Great Hyperspace War of 5,000 BBY, where they fled to the Unknown Regions and established a new empire in secret after building the Trayus Academy on Malachor V, again waiting in secret for the perfect time to attack the Republic. This group was severely weakened and their numbers dwindled at the hands of Revan, so they remained just a few until their return to Republic space in 2,000 BBY, when Darth Ruin brought them under his wing when he unified all of the scattered Sith organizations, thus grafting himself onto the line of true Sith Lords beginning with Xendor. This line continued from ruin to Bane, to Palpatine and his apprentices, including Vader, when it was finally cut off at the hands of a redeemed Anakin Skywalker, thus bringing balance to the Force.

Now, back up 4,000 years to the time of Revan. As the self-proclaimed Dark Lord who started a new Sith Empire from nothing, having no connection to the Sith Lords who came before, and thus not being "true" Sith. Revan knew that, in order to be a true Dark Lord and for his followers to be true Sith, they would have to conquer the "true" Sith who existed in the Unknown Regions, whom he gained knowledge about somehow. But first things first: they had to conquer the Republic first, and so began the Jedi civil war.

Revan had his mind wiped, and from the canonical light side ending, memories of these "true Sith" flooded back, and he went off to battle them in order to keep the Republic safe. In the nonncanonical dark side ending, Revan acted upon his previous plan and went off to conquer them to usurp the manle of true Dark Lord of the Sith.

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Old 04-26-2007, 01:18 PM   #124
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Did he suck the life force out of it, or actually eat everything on it?
Suck the life force out. But I do consider that a form of eating.

It like how you see a nut, and you break the nut to drink the juice, thereby eating the nut. Nihilus broke the the "the nut" (life) to get the juice (the Force). Once the juice is drunk, you discard "the nut", which is useless, which is why Kattar remains, but nothing can live on it now.


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Old 04-27-2007, 12:03 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Suck the life force out. But I do consider that a form of eating.

It like how you see a nut, and you break the nut to drink the juice, thereby eating the nut. Nihilus broke the the "the nut" (life) to get the juice (the Force). Once the juice is drunk, you discard "the nut", which is useless, which is why Kattar remains, but nothing can live on it now.

A coconut would have been a better example, a simple nut cannot have juice unless you smash it with something hard or are strong enough to squeeze the juices out by hand.


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Old 04-27-2007, 11:21 AM   #126
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I think that Naga Sadow was a True Sith. They should be like him.


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Old 05-02-2007, 11:44 AM   #127
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Come on, Zerimar should get a response.
I think that is actually true what you are saying. I don't really know Xendor or anyone from that era, it could as well be Adas's forces so we could include maybe some material about the Rakata who had the sith enslaved during their time of the infinite empire. But yes, I like your idea!
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Old 05-02-2007, 11:26 PM   #128
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True Sith

On the Star Wars wiki if you type in Sith you're going to get the RELIGION, *DARK JEDI, MALAK, REVAN, NHILUS and whatever Sith has claimed to be a True Sith deserved to be cut in two because THE TRUE SITH ARE A SPECIES ALL THEIR OWN; EXILED JEDI found them on Korriban and the other True Sith colonies, and basically took over. The TRUE SITH vanished, and all that was left were the followers of an ideal* I am sick of playing games and running into a Dark Jedi who says the same old *Sith* line "You could never face up to a True Sith, pathetic Jedi." Anyways the True Sith differ from the boring broken record Dark Jedi, they look alot more like Darth Maul (they weren't Zabraks of course) but they had the Red Skin and Black Sith Tattoos. They would seem to be more of a challenge than your average Sith scum.
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:55 PM   #129
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I don't think they have any direct connection to the Legions of Lettow, presumably they would have considered Xendor their honorary Dark Lord because he was the first recorded individual to have split from the Jedi Order. Initially it was believed that Xendor's rebellion was the group of dark siders who were exiled and found Korriban. The New Essential Chronology mentioned the Hundred Year Darkness as that event and considering the time difference between them I don’t think they could be anything other than their philosophical descendants. The other thing is based on the fact that the “True Sith Empire” had Korriban in it, I don’t think they could have been anything else other than the Mark Ragnos/Naga Sadow Sith forces. Surely the homeworld of that Sith Empire could not have been a part of someone else’s Empire. The distinction between “False Sith” and “True Sith” is that A – the True Sith have a direct line to historical Sith lineage and B - the old Sith would be the true masters of all Sith teachings, and therefore be much more skilled in the powers of the darkside than Revan’s ilk. I’d like to think they are a lot more level headed than the goofballs of Revan’s order who seemed to betray each other simply for its own sake rather than differences in idealogy like Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh. By the way, I don't have the Tales of the Jedi comics, but how much detail did they go into about the Fall of the Sith Empire?
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:47 AM   #130
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As I've said before the only possible "True Sith" have to be The Empire of Ragnos, Sadow, Kresh etc, because A: The Legions of Lettow were not Sith, B: Ragnos' Sith were the only incarnation worth mentioning with regards to maintaining power or directly influencing history at this point in time, An off hand comment from Kreia about the real reason for the Mandalorian Wars does not cut it for me. I think the True Sith being a geographically different group to the Sith Empire is Crap.


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Old 05-02-2008, 01:10 PM   #131
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After reading a few interviews and such, I think the whole idea of 'True Sith' is pretty straight forward.

True Sith refers to every Sith in the known and unknown regions who has the characteristic traits revolving around world domination. I call it the Darth Vader and Darth Malek syndrome, which includes Dark Jedi, Sith Lords, Assassins, Apprentices, etc... Any Sith that followed the traditions found on Korriban, Duxn, and Yavin IV is a True Sith. True Sith follow "The Sith Code", "The Rule of Two", and they use deception, cunning, and patience. A 'True With' seeks absolute domination over everything.

Amature Sith refers to Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus, and anyone else from the academy on Malacore V. Kreia could be considered a fallen "True Sith", for she believed and followed in the teachings of Korriban. Everyone else who was a sith in "KotOR II" was not a "True Sith". What makes them amatures is a simple logic, "...these Sith are of special teachings"; "...they are driven to destroy the Jedi"; "...this one consumes the force"; "etc...". KotOR II's Sith were not driven by other philosophies such as "The Rule of Two" and "The Sith Code" and "World Domination". The only thing they are interested in is to wipe out all the Jedi. They do not seek world domination.

I think the writters were not sure what direction to go in, so they created the ideology behind the True Sith in an attempt to be creative. What would be very interesting is if "KotOR III" would be called "The Sith Wars". Lol... If you think about the two different factions, someone would have a real easy time in creating a civil war between the two types of Sith.

If you have read the first Darth Bane novel, you will understand the differences.
spoiler:
According to Darth Bane's research, the True Sith's origin is on Korriban. Teachings of a True Sith includes 'The Rule of Two', 'The Sith Code', and 'Deception, Patience, and Cunning'. Within the Sith Academy on Korriban, Unknown Planet, Dxun, and Yavin IV, force sensitives were trained to become a canadate for apprentiship. Everyone else is considered a soldier, or they will be killed off to consolidate the darkside of the force. Originally, there were only two. There were no armies, no hierarchies, and nothing else. In order for the True Sith to overthrow the Jedi, they would work through politics, deceptions, and patience. One will encompass the darkside (power), and the other will crave it. If the apprentice is cunning enough, he or she will learn everything from the their master and the old mater's archives on Korriban, Duxn, The Unkown Planet, and Yavin IV. When the Apprentice believes he or she is ready, the individual will kill the Sith Lord in a cunning manner to take his or her place. (Thats how Malek and Palpatine got their power.) As each generation takes over, the following one will be that much stronger.


When the 'True Sith' strike, there will only be two. Both of them will be in plain site, and they will use patiance, cunning, and deception. If you think about what Revan had done, there is no real Darth Revan. According to Star Wars EU canon, Revan was a lightsider using the monarchy Darth. All Revan wanted to do is unite the Jedi and Republic, so they can face the true force of the Sith. Revan knew that a Sith Lord and a Apprentice were waiting in the Unknown Regions; however, they will bring an army of non force users up against the Republic and Jedi. Since a 'True Sith' follows the "Rule of Two", the stregnth behind one Sith Lord will be more powerful than Sion, Nhilus, and Malek combined. Malek obtained his knowledge from Korriban, but his reign and teachings as a Sith were limited. The two other "True Sith" in the unknown regions have been preparing for decades. Malek and Revan built up an army within only a few years. You can only imagine how far back the battle between Sith Lords and Apprentices had extended. Korriban contains the original Sith Archives, but the knowledge and history of the 'True Sith' is scattered throughout the gallaxy. Almost like hidden stashes of knowledge, so that the lineage could forever continue.

In an interesting turn of events, the Exile's actions on Malacore V did the 'True Sith' a favor. Since the "Rule of Two" is essential for reaching ultimate control over the darkside, the removal of Sion, Kriea, and Nhilus had consentrated the force back onto the two in the unknown regions. If they finish the story, all shnite is going to hit the fan.



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Old 05-02-2008, 01:26 PM   #132
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I agree with The Source, mostly because of Kreia's comments about the True Sith being a "belief".
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:00 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Gurges-Ahter
I agree with The Source, mostly because of Kreia's comments about the True Sith being a "belief".
Yep. Almost like a religious experience.



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Old 05-02-2008, 03:09 PM   #134
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Well, they're portrayed very good in this story but even better in it's sequel. On Fanfiction.net.

First story.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2388512/1/The_Children

Sequel.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2499185/..._Pure_Sith_War

They're actually called the Pure Sith in this story. But the story's on halt atm, since the author needs Open Heart Surgery. It's based on Revan and the Exile coming back to the republic and preparing for 30 years. Then going to war with them. The 30 years aren't covered much. There's an indirect sequel on his account, which covers 300 years after the Yuushong Vong War.




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Old 05-02-2008, 04:53 PM   #135
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I think they should be scary and in the shadows, manipulating others to weaken the galaxy before sending their own fleet out to take Coruscant or whatever.
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:41 PM   #136
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They try it in the story, but Revan stops their spies on Coruscant.

Note, the quote in my sig is from those stories.




A nice song, fits them perfectly.
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Old 05-02-2008, 06:46 PM   #137
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Well, they're portrayed very good in this story but even better in it's sequel. On Fanfiction.net.

First story.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2388512/1/The_Children

Sequel.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2499185/..._Pure_Sith_War

They're actually called the Pure Sith in this story. But the story's on halt atm, since the author needs Open Heart Surgery. It's based on Revan and the Exile coming back to the republic and preparing for 30 years. Then going to war with them. The 30 years aren't covered much. There's an indirect sequel on his account, which covers 300 years after the Yuushong Vong War.
FanFiction is not considered canon. No offense to your friend's story, but I rather go by the novels, movies, and game.



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Old 05-02-2008, 06:52 PM   #138
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He never said it was considered to be canon, just that he [presumably] thinks that that's how they should be.


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Old 05-02-2008, 06:54 PM   #139
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It's an interpretation, a very good one too.




A nice song, fits them perfectly.
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:11 PM   #140
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The True SIth could be a complete counter-balance to the Jedi. Kreia told The Exile on Korriban that the ancient Sith (Tulak Hord, Marka Ragnos...) were much more powerful than the Sith in the Jedi Civil War time. But they could not be the "True" Sith because they were once Jedi. The Sith we oficially know became Sith during the great Schism around 24 500 BBY. I think that the True Sith developed at the same time the first Jedi.
And I have to disagree with The Source. From the beginning the Sith were only commited to destroying the thing they hate the most: The Jedi. It's because they are the only beings in the universe that can stop them. After the Jedi are gone there is truly nothing that can stop them, and "world domination" is just an after-effect.
But I think that NOBODY is going to win. At one time the Sith are close to destroying the Jedi, but the Jedi return and defeat the Sith, and it goes on.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:38 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by The Source View Post
After reading a few interviews and such, I think the whole idea of 'True Sith' is pretty straight forward.

True Sith refers to every Sith in the known and unknown regions who has the characteristic traits revolving around world domination. I call it the Darth Vader and Darth Malek syndrome, which includes Dark Jedi, Sith Lords, Assassins, Apprentices, etc... Any Sith that followed the traditions found on Korriban, Duxn, and Yavin IV is a True Sith. True Sith follow "The Sith Code", "The Rule of Two", and they use deception, cunning, and patience. A 'True With' seeks absolute domination over everything.

Amature Sith refers to Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus, and anyone else from the academy on Malacore V. Kreia could be considered a fallen "True Sith", for she believed and followed in the teachings of Korriban. Everyone else who was a sith in "KotOR II" was not a "True Sith". What makes them amatures is a simple logic, "...these Sith are of special teachings"; "...they are driven to destroy the Jedi"; "...this one consumes the force"; "etc...". KotOR II's Sith were not driven by other philosophies such as "The Rule of Two" and "The Sith Code" and "World Domination". The only thing they are interested in is to wipe out all the Jedi. They do not seek world domination.

I think the writters were not sure what direction to go in, so they created the ideology behind the True Sith in an attempt to be creative. What would be very interesting is if "KotOR III" would be called "The Sith Wars". Lol... If you think about the two different factions, someone would have a real easy time in creating a civil war between the two types of Sith.

If you have read the first Darth Bane novel, you will understand the differences.
spoiler:
According to Darth Bane's research, the True Sith's origin is on Korriban. Teachings of a True Sith includes 'The Rule of Two', 'The Sith Code', and 'Deception, Patience, and Cunning'. Within the Sith Academy on Korriban, Unknown Planet, Dxun, and Yavin IV, force sensitives were trained to become a canadate for apprentiship. Everyone else is considered a soldier, or they will be killed off to consolidate the darkside of the force. Originally, there were only two. There were no armies, no hierarchies, and nothing else. In order for the True Sith to overthrow the Jedi, they would work through politics, deceptions, and patience. One will encompass the darkside (power), and the other will crave it. If the apprentice is cunning enough, he or she will learn everything from the their master and the old mater's archives on Korriban, Duxn, The Unkown Planet, and Yavin IV. When the Apprentice believes he or she is ready, the individual will kill the Sith Lord in a cunning manner to take his or her place. (Thats how Malek and Palpatine got their power.) As each generation takes over, the following one will be that much stronger.


When the 'True Sith' strike, there will only be two. Both of them will be in plain site, and they will use patiance, cunning, and deception. If you think about what Revan had done, there is no real Darth Revan. According to Star Wars EU canon, Revan was a lightsider using the monarchy Darth. All Revan wanted to do is unite the Jedi and Republic, so they can face the true force of the Sith. Revan knew that a Sith Lord and a Apprentice were waiting in the Unknown Regions; however, they will bring an army of non force users up against the Republic and Jedi. Since a 'True Sith' follows the "Rule of Two", the stregnth behind one Sith Lord will be more powerful than Sion, Nhilus, and Malek combined. Malek obtained his knowledge from Korriban, but his reign and teachings as a Sith were limited. The two other "True Sith" in the unknown regions have been preparing for decades. Malek and Revan built up an army within only a few years. You can only imagine how far back the battle between Sith Lords and Apprentices had extended. Korriban contains the original Sith Archives, but the knowledge and history of the 'True Sith' is scattered throughout the gallaxy. Almost like hidden stashes of knowledge, so that the lineage could forever continue.

In an interesting turn of events, the Exile's actions on Malacore V did the 'True Sith' a favor. Since the "Rule of Two" is essential for reaching ultimate control over the darkside, the removal of Sion, Kriea, and Nhilus had consentrated the force back onto the two in the unknown regions. If they finish the story, all shnite is going to hit the fan.
OMG, you think exactly like me... That's exactly my opinion!!!
Are you a Jedi or something, cauze you read my mind like a pro XD
That is why Revan searched the first time the Star Forge, so he can make an army quicker. But because of that stupid Jedi Council, he ruined all his plans, all his army. So he had to come up with something else.
So probably he knew- this is an assumption- that the Apprentice has not completed his full training, so he decided to go make the business now, while it's easier.
But he still needs help. Those guys are hidden for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Enough time to make a very big army and a wealthy society to support a war, and a domination who suppose to last thousand of years...

And if you ask me, The Sith Lord would look like a sith-human half-breed, much like Ragnos, he would have a DS aura all around him, and the place where he stands should be filled with some spooky grey--black-red smoke!!! BOO!!!
Or he could be a green twi'lek LOL!!!


*Note: Chapter 8 is out!*
[Fic] The war of the ancients, seen through the eyes of one young men, as he walks the road of destiny... The Triumvirates War


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Old 06-30-2008, 05:22 PM   #142
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But because of that stupid Jedi Council, he ruined all his plans, all his army.
Yeah. One of the biggest problems with KOTOR 1 was the fαct that Vrook and the others never apologized for trying to stop Revan's crusade of justice and mercy, during which he happened to murder quadrillions of people.


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Old 06-30-2008, 05:23 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Darth Scorpius View Post
Well, they're portrayed very good in this story but even better in it's sequel. On Fanfiction.net.

First story.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2388512/1/The_Children

Sequel.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2499185/..._Pure_Sith_War

They're actually called the Pure Sith in this story. But the story's on halt atm, since the author needs Open Heart Surgery. It's based on Revan and the Exile coming back to the republic and preparing for 30 years. Then going to war with them. The 30 years aren't covered much. There's an indirect sequel on his account, which covers 300 years after the Yuushong Vong War.
I actually read his other sw fan fiction story "Descended from Heroes and Villains" a couple weeks ago and it was pretty good, thanks for posting the link to the original ones.

As far as the true sith go. I think they will be members of the sith species that left Korriban after Adas drove the Rakatan off.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:10 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by The Source View Post
After reading a few interviews and such, I think the whole idea of 'True Sith' is pretty straight forward.

True Sith refers to every Sith in the known and unknown regions who has the characteristic traits revolving around world domination. I call it the Darth Vader and Darth Malek syndrome, which includes Dark Jedi, Sith Lords, Assassins, Apprentices, etc... Any Sith that followed the traditions found on Korriban, Duxn, and Yavin IV is a True Sith. True Sith follow "The Sith Code", "The Rule of Two", and they use deception, cunning, and patience. A 'True With' seeks absolute domination over everything.
It is an interesting theory but these is a flaw to it imo. Exar Kun and Ulic Qel Droma were declared to be sith by Marka Ragnos who was the most powerful ancient sith lord, a mere 40 years prior to kotor. They didn't exactly use deception to conquer the galaxy rather they used military force. Another problem is that the true sith can very well have been in existence prior to the old sith empire meaning that the sith code did not exist yet.

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Originally Posted by The Source View Post
When the 'True Sith' strike, there will only be two. Both of them will be in plain site, and they will use patiance, cunning, and deception. If you think about what Revan had done, there is no real Darth Revan. According to Star Wars EU canon, Revan was a lightsider using the monarchy Darth. All Revan wanted to do is unite the Jedi and Republic, so they can face the true force of the Sith. Revan knew that a Sith Lord and a Apprentice were waiting in the Unknown Regions; however, they will bring an army of non force users up against the Republic and Jedi. Since a 'True Sith' follows the "Rule of Two", the stregnth behind one Sith Lord will be more powerful than Sion, Nhilus, and Malek combined. Malek obtained his knowledge from Korriban, but his reign and teachings as a Sith were limited. The two other "True Sith" in the unknown regions have been preparing for decades. Malek and Revan built up an army within only a few years. You can only imagine how far back the battle between Sith Lords and Apprentices had extended. Korriban contains the original Sith Archives, but the knowledge and history of the 'True Sith' is scattered throughout the gallaxy. Almost like hidden stashes of knowledge, so that the lineage could forever continue.
There is another possible flaw in your theory. I recall Kreia saying that the "True Sith" outdate the Old Sith Empire which was made up of the entire sith species and half breeds from the dark jedi and sith species. So if the True Sith outdates the old sith empire which was formed once the dark jedi came to korriban than the "sith ideal" (as the kotor cutscens described the sith of kotor era) was established by the dark jedi merging with the sith to form the sith empire therefore no rule of was thought up of yet since the "true sith" would just be the real sith species and have no connection to any sith order such as the old sith empire or Kun's brother of the sith.

Now in regards to what you said about Revan. Yes he did become a sith to take over the galaxy to make it stronger to combat the true sith. but if you are suggesting that Revan did not fall to the darkside was a lightsider using the "darth" title than you are wrong. The best evidence of him falling is his sith holocron.
I am Darth Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith.

Those who use the dark side are also bound to serve it. To understand this is to understand the underlying philosophy of the Sith.

The dark side offers power for power's sake. You must crave it. Covet it. You must seek power above all else, with no reservation or hesitation.

The Force will change you. It will transform you. Some fear this change. The teachings of the Jedi are focused on fighting and controlling this transformation. That is why those who serve the light are limited in what they accomplish.

True power can come only to those who embrace the transformation. There can be no compromise. Mercy, compassion, loyalty: all these things will prevent you from claiming what is rightfully yours. Those who follow the dark side must cast aside these conceits. Those who do not—those who try to walk the path of moderation—will fail, dragged down by their own weakness.

Those who accept the power of the dark side must also accept the challenge of holding on to it. By its very nature the dark side invites rivalry and strife. This is the greatest strength of the Sith: it culls the weak from our order. Yet this rivalry can also be our greatest weakness. The strong must be careful lest they be overwhelmed by the ambitions of those working beneath them in concert. Any master who instructs more than one apprentice in the ways of the dark side is a fool. In time, the apprentices will unite their strengths and overthrow the master. It is inevitable; axiomatic. That is why each master must have only one student.

This is also the reason there can only be one Dark Lord. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If the leader grows weak another must rise to seize the mantle. The strong rule; the weak are meant to serve. This is the way it must be.

My time here is ended. Take what I have taught you and use it well.


There is no doubt that Revan fell to the darkside no matter how noble and good his intentions were, the same could be said for Ulic's goal for turning as well as DE Luke's who wanted to destroy DE Sidious and his empire from the inside, Anakin wanted to save his wife so he to had a noble goal and Darth Caedus wanted peace for the galaxy with his falling. A jedi pretending to be a sith could never say such things and I doubt they could even make a sith holocron. Darth Revan was really Revan who fell to the darkside no one can pretend to turn. Canderous notes Revan used tactics in the madalorian wars that were a replica of the madalorians which included willingly sacrificing men and jedi something a real lightsider would never do.

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spoiler:
According to Darth Bane's research, the True Sith's origin is on Korriban. Teachings of a True Sith includes 'The Rule of Two', 'The Sith Code', and 'Deception, Patience, and Cunning'. Within the Sith Academy on Korriban, Unknown Planet, Dxun, and Yavin IV, force sensitives were trained to become a canadate for apprentiship. Everyone else is considered a soldier, or they will be killed off to consolidate the darkside of the force. Originally, there were only two. There were no armies, no hierarchies, and nothing else. In order for the True Sith to overthrow the Jedi, they would work through politics, deceptions, and patience. One will encompass the darkside (power), and the other will crave it. If the apprentice is cunning enough, he or she will learn everything from the their master and the old mater's archives on Korriban, Duxn, The Unkown Planet, and Yavin IV. When the Apprentice believes he or she is ready, the individual will kill the Sith Lord in a cunning manner to take his or her place. (Thats how Malek and Palpatine got their power.) As each generation takes over, the following one will be that much stronger.
There is a problem with your theory down here that the true sith should they follow the Rule of Two. For example Darth Sidious notes multiple times in the Jedi Vs Sith guide that the master does not have to have teach the apprentice everything he knows. For example in the Jedi vs Sith Guide,after reading part a passage from Naga Sadow's records Sidious in his own words says Ah,but Naga Sadow was far too generous with his knowledge. Far more generous than I. Then he says he will guard Sadow's secrets implying that he didn't teach any of Sadow's knowledge to Maul,Dooku,Vader or Luke when he was Sids. apprentice in DE. Than in the article about selecting apprentices Sidious notes not what to look for in an apprentice which implies that the apprentice could kill the master before they truly learned all they could from the master so the order would lose some knowledge and become weaker over time.
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Old 07-01-2008, 03:38 AM   #145
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No, the master does not need to learn the apprentice all, but the Rule of Two still stands.
When the level of the Master is equal or lesser then the level of the Apprentice...ZUNG! TZIAN! FOOM! Aaaaaaa!!!! "You have destroyed me!!!"
"Yep!!!! I am the MASTER!!!!"


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Old 07-01-2008, 09:11 AM   #146
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No, the master does not need to learn the apprentice all, but the Rule of Two still stands. When the level of the Master is equal or lesser then the level of the Apprentice...ZUNG! TZIAN! FOOM! Aaaaaaa!!!! "You have destroyed me!!!"
"Yep!!!! I am the MASTER!!!!"
That doesn't mean it is getting stronger, the lost of knowledge hurts the order as a whole. The apprentice can betray the master before the master taught his apprentice everything he wanted to. Another problem is that a weaker apprentice can kill the more powerful master by means other than in combat and thus weaking the order by betraying way before they are ready to be the DLOTS.

Now regardless, it makes no difference because the True Sith were wouldn't exactly follow the rule of two because they existed (according to kreia) before the Old sith empire which was founded by the exiled dark jedi. So the sith ideal and sith code were not invented yet, but other than that your theory is pretty interesting but i don't see it being correct.
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Old 07-02-2008, 02:16 PM   #147
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In regards to Revan's move towards a single leader... I think that Revan believed that certain actions had to be taken, but because there were so many leaders with their own agenda, he declared a single leader had to decide the fate of all. Democracy is a strange thing because it allows more individual freedoms, but because you have so many voices, progress is slowed. Perhaps Revan needed a system where a single leader would make all the hard choices and progress would go exactly as he decides. The problem Revan faced was that Malak interfered and destroyed all Revan's progress... leaving the Republic in more dire condition than it was before. If Revan had succeeded, he would have dominated everyone, but would have kept them safe from the true sith.
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:07 PM   #148
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i dont want any of the zombie pale stuff they put in both kotor games
i want kotor 3 to have some messed up freaks.
the sith are supposed to strike fear into you hearts as the movies taught me, but they didnt scare me in kotor, they made me laugh!
so all in all, freaky sith with an even freakier voice


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There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the force.
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:34 PM   #149
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What should the True Sith be?.. Retconned, the current vision of the Sith beginnings and various Orders are awesome as is, I feel no need to to cheapen the Characters already established in the TOTJ, GAOTS, FOTSE.


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Old 07-03-2008, 04:34 PM   #150
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The "True Sith" should be like the original sith

Elite Ranks: The Original Sith Species. Masters of the Dark Side

Elite Warriors: The Massasai. Basically force-imbued hulks

Sith Warriors: Sith Species warriors. Basic blaster-fodder.

Sith Assassins: Maybe Revan got the design for the Sith Assassin uniform from the Trayus Academy.

Sith Troopers: Same as Sith Assassins.
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:04 PM   #151
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I think the True Sith should be a small group of individuals, basically using many 'pawns' to go about their goals, whatever they may be.

I admit the concept could use some fleshing out, but I only made it up there...
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:02 AM   #152
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I agree with everybody else.


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Old 07-07-2008, 12:06 AM   #153
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I think the true sith should not be physical entities. I would believe a sentient force nexus would be much more terrifying because... how would you attack it? Or maybe an enemy like the borg from star trek? (a collective with a single consciousness) Something that is not a single leader, but a single enemy supported by many.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:18 AM   #154
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Interesting thought there D_Y...

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Old 07-07-2008, 06:50 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Source View Post
After reading a few interviews and such, I think the whole idea of 'True Sith' is pretty straight forward.

True Sith refers to every Sith in the known and unknown regions who has the characteristic traits revolving around world domination. I call it the Darth Vader and Darth Malek syndrome, which includes Dark Jedi, Sith Lords, Assassins, Apprentices, etc... Any Sith that followed the traditions found on Korriban, Duxn, and Yavin IV is a True Sith. True Sith follow "The Sith Code", "The Rule of Two", and they use deception, cunning, and patience. A 'True With' seeks absolute domination over everything.

Amature Sith refers to Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus, and anyone else from the academy on Malacore V. Kreia could be considered a fallen "True Sith", for she believed and followed in the teachings of Korriban. Everyone else who was a sith in "KotOR II" was not a "True Sith". What makes them amatures is a simple logic, "...these Sith are of special teachings"; "...they are driven to destroy the Jedi"; "...this one consumes the force"; "etc...". KotOR II's Sith were not driven by other philosophies such as "The Rule of Two" and "The Sith Code" and "World Domination". The only thing they are interested in is to wipe out all the Jedi. They do not seek world domination.

I think the writters were not sure what direction to go in, so they created the ideology behind the True Sith in an attempt to be creative. What would be very interesting is if "KotOR III" would be called "The Sith Wars". Lol... If you think about the two different factions, someone would have a real easy time in creating a civil war between the two types of Sith.

If you have read the first Darth Bane novel, you will understand the differences.
spoiler:
According to Darth Bane's research, the True Sith's origin is on Korriban. Teachings of a True Sith includes 'The Rule of Two', 'The Sith Code', and 'Deception, Patience, and Cunning'. Within the Sith Academy on Korriban, Unknown Planet, Dxun, and Yavin IV, force sensitives were trained to become a canadate for apprentiship. Everyone else is considered a soldier, or they will be killed off to consolidate the darkside of the force. Originally, there were only two. There were no armies, no hierarchies, and nothing else. In order for the True Sith to overthrow the Jedi, they would work through politics, deceptions, and patience. One will encompass the darkside (power), and the other will crave it. If the apprentice is cunning enough, he or she will learn everything from the their master and the old mater's archives on Korriban, Duxn, The Unkown Planet, and Yavin IV. When the Apprentice believes he or she is ready, the individual will kill the Sith Lord in a cunning manner to take his or her place. (Thats how Malek and Palpatine got their power.) As each generation takes over, the following one will be that much stronger.


When the 'True Sith' strike, there will only be two. Both of them will be in plain site, and they will use patiance, cunning, and deception. If you think about what Revan had done, there is no real Darth Revan. According to Star Wars EU canon, Revan was a lightsider using the monarchy Darth. All Revan wanted to do is unite the Jedi and Republic, so they can face the true force of the Sith. Revan knew that a Sith Lord and a Apprentice were waiting in the Unknown Regions; however, they will bring an army of non force users up against the Republic and Jedi. Since a 'True Sith' follows the "Rule of Two", the stregnth behind one Sith Lord will be more powerful than Sion, Nhilus, and Malek combined. Malek obtained his knowledge from Korriban, but his reign and teachings as a Sith were limited. The two other "True Sith" in the unknown regions have been preparing for decades. Malek and Revan built up an army within only a few years. You can only imagine how far back the battle between Sith Lords and Apprentices had extended. Korriban contains the original Sith Archives, but the knowledge and history of the 'True Sith' is scattered throughout the gallaxy. Almost like hidden stashes of knowledge, so that the lineage could forever continue.

In an interesting turn of events, the Exile's actions on Malacore V did the 'True Sith' a favor. Since the "Rule of Two" is essential for reaching ultimate control over the darkside, the removal of Sion, Kriea, and Nhilus had consentrated the force back onto the two in the unknown regions. If they finish the story, all shnite is going to hit the fan.
The first Darth Bane novel tells a lot about the "True Sith" but there is only so much you can assume from it. Like the secret of the Sith holocrons for one thing which Bane learns how to make in the second novel could possibly be considered something that came from a True Sith line.

In my opinion however, the most I can depict from both of the Darth Bane novels, the True Sith existence began on Tython in the Core of the galaxy along with the beginning of the Jedi, although they were referred as something else. But as to where they are during the KOTOR period is something I don't think is answerable at this point.


Yesterday is history. Tomorrow, a mystery. Today is a gift...that is why it is called the present.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:00 AM   #156
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I think the True Sith should be a lie.

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Old 07-07-2008, 02:29 PM   #157
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I think the True Sith should be a lie.
QFT, Thats the sentence I've been trying to come up with since 04 lol


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Old 07-07-2008, 03:02 PM   #158
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QFT, Thats the sentence I've been trying to come up with since 04 lol
I guess that we have been tainted by the myth of the 'True Sith'. I don't think that we will ever know much about 'them' (saying that because it has been said in the game that 'they' are real. ) unless they answer the question in a game or book or comic or....whatever.

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Old 07-07-2008, 03:17 PM   #159
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There's nothing in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction that indicates that Bane was referring to the same "true Sith" that Traya spoke of. All it says is that he considered Revan a true Sith because he agreed with all of his teachings. In this instance, "true Sith" seems like a very relative term, and there's nothing connecting it to the fabled beings that Traya referred to, or that Revan even knew of the people she mentioned. It seems to me that Traya and Bane are speaking in entirely different terms here, not knowing about one another's findings.


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Old 07-07-2008, 03:46 PM   #160
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Palpatine is in essence a true Sith.

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