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Old 07-08-2008, 09:25 AM   #161
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The Sith have continued to evolve and taken many forms over the millennia, and none are more Sith than the others.

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Old 07-09-2008, 10:07 AM   #162
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Maybe the true sith in the unknown are ones that have maintained true to the ways of the ancients rather than those who evolved it in a brotherhood or an army.


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Old 07-09-2008, 10:33 AM   #163
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But does that make Palpatine less of a Sith? I say no.

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Old 07-09-2008, 10:52 AM   #164
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no it doesn't, because he in sense followed the ancient ways.


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Old 07-10-2008, 04:13 AM   #165
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I think the True Sith should be a lie.
Blasphemy!

The whole "True Sith" thing is just so 80's... lets bring in the Shadows from Babylon 5... yeah... they appear from nowhere slice everything to pieces and dissappear with a shrill scream... that's better.


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Old 07-10-2008, 10:32 AM   #166
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no it doesn't, because he in sense followed the ancient ways.
How so?

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Old 07-10-2008, 12:42 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by RedHawke View Post
Blasphemy!

The whole "True Sith" thing is just so 80's...
Did the introduction of Kun, Ragnos and later Sadow etc in the early 90's not fill that hole? and the Kreia true Sith not an entirely new lump of mud for the SW waters?


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Old 07-10-2008, 11:00 PM   #168
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How so?
Well he used secrecy and cunning to take over. He killed his master and took the mantle of Dark Lord. He was able to deceive everyone up until he had revealed himself to the Jedi.


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Old 07-12-2008, 03:21 AM   #169
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Did the introduction of Kun, Ragnos and later Sadow etc in the early 90's not fill that hole?
Not for many, just lame ol' dark jedi pretenders like all the others.

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and the Kreia true Sith not an entirely new lump of mud for the SW waters?
The 'True Sith' have been ho'd-and-haw'd about long before that. Think of it as a late 80's Sci-Fi convention 'urban legend', with wild stories/speculation traded all amongst the fans, given some credence now by Obsidian with Kreia's lines in TSL. At least that is where I personally heard of this 'True Sith' idea... and at more than one convention and in more than one state.

Because of that I made up a Pnp D6 RPG Star Wars campaign around them in the mid 90's. Though I mixed in a ton of B5 influenced stuff cause I liked it too.

Though it can be argued that the aforementioned characters might have even been spawned because of these 'urban lagends'... we just can't tell.


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Old 07-27-2008, 06:44 PM   #170
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What should the True Sith BE Like?
Who said there should be True Sith in the first place?

Really though, with all the hype the True Sith have been given already, I'd say it'd be far more interesting to have them not exist at all, or not be the true threat, rather than to have them as yet another group of baddies with red lightsabers and black hoods.


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Old 07-27-2008, 06:50 PM   #171
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Who said there should be True Sith in the first place?

Really though, with all the hype the True Sith have been given already, I'd say it'd be far more interesting to have them not exist at all, or not be the true threat, rather than to have them as yet another group of baddies with red lightsabers and black hoods.
If there were no true sith, then what's the point? I still would go with something beyond flesh and blood. Something that can't just be killed or can't be sensed would be far more intimidating than any being could ever be.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:02 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by JCarter426
Who said there should be True Sith in the first place?
I'm not a big fan of the True Sith, especially when we've been told through canon countless times that the Sith species, the origin of the Sith, died out on Ziost and Korriban.

It would definately be interesting if they didn't exist, but it woulg beg the question of what Revan has actually been doing in the Unknown regions for all this time. Fighting the Chiss?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura
Something that can't just be killed or can't be sensed would be far more intimidating than any being could ever be.
We've already had lifeforms that can't be sensed - the Yuuzhan Vong - and I sincerely hope that they don't get involved at any point, seeing as they don't show up for another 4000 years.






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Old 07-27-2008, 08:31 PM   #173
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It would definately be interesting if they didn't exist, but it woulg beg the question of what Revan has actually been doing in the Unknown regions for all this time. Fighting the Chiss?
That would be awesome! [/sarcasm]

Eh, I think it would be interesting to have Revan or the Exile turn out to be the villain. Maybe he/she found the remnants of the True Sith Empire and conquered them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of the fan base would object, but a guy can dream, can't he?


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Old 08-29-2008, 02:30 AM   #174
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I didn't see anything directly relating to this topic in the forum, so I apologize if I missed it (in which case I would be more than willing to delete this thread or move it to the appropriate place).

As the title says, what should the True Sith be like? How should they act? This came from a thread in another Kotor III forum that I really liked and decided should be here as well. This is what I personally came up with:

I think the cold and passionless character of him is perfect. Jedi are like Buddhists, that try to remove all emotion through contemplation of nature (the force). Sith are Darwinian Romantics that embrace and revel in emotion as a tool to increase the potency of the force.

It would make sense that the true sith would be completely emotionless, just coldy calculating- in other words, true psychopaths. Unlike the jedi, they wouldn't deny their emotions because they are afraid of acting impartially, but because they aren't willing to surrender their judgement to anything outside themselves. Motivated purely by the drive for perfection and power. Not FEELING hate, because they NATURALLY hate everything besides themselves. Not feeling LUST, because all they care about are themselves.

I also like the idea of them NOT using lightsabers, since that would certainly help distinguish them, but I've got an alternative option. If any of you have played Planescape: Torment, then you know all about Dakkon's magical sword that is formed by will. I think it would be awesome if the True Sith all used these weapons- essentially wielding pure force WITHOUT an actual lightsaber. They could go from fighting you with a single-bladed weapon, then transition to a double-bladed one, then maybe a spear-type one. An additional feature would be that YOU wouldn't be able to wield these weapons unless you went fully dark side.

Look forward to hearing other ideas!
Let me just point something out first to eliminate ambiguity:

There is a difference between insanity and crazy.

Crazy means perhaps erratic or clever boisterous charade, coherent. They know it and are fully aware. If a bit jangled in nerves--by will or otherwise.

Whereas insanity, the person is just lost--no conscious awareness of it or of a number of things...in no particular order either. Incoherent. Not necessarily loud or quiet. They can perhaps be considered to have lost a majority of their sentience, whereas crazy is still quite sentient.

Then there is sociopath. Normally cold, emotionless. Calculative. Manipulative by nature it seems. Conniving backstabbers. Changing to fit in wherever, just so long as in the end they get what they are after and couldn't care less who they ruin to do it. Can't truly know this person--if you could call them that. They are amongst the most morally corrupt and reprehensible, despicable creatures to live.

Shaolin monks (which also are bhuddists... a *LOT* like jedi--especially fighter monks) tend to want to believe nobody starts out rotten or corrupt--it happens as a result of the tide in the universe, and is the culmination of all bad things to happen to you.

Shaolin Monks are peaceful. When there were fighter monks, however, they also funneled their emotions and anger and channeled it into a tool for positive and good. Kind of like Vaapad. They stood in peace so long as others did. One move in aggression, though, and they did what must be done--even if it meant they pulverized you. Like Jedi.

I'm not so sure some aren't born corrupt. At the very least, there are those born predisposed to it as their nature. Like ferrile animals.
Example: I had a very rare "red" fir rat in my rat breeding days--and I hand raised that thing from a 4 day old pinky as carefully as I possibly could. Sweet mama and papa. It worked for all its siblings: they turned out fine. Loved people, and each other. He, on the other hand would sharpen his teeth just so he could tear up whatever or whoever he bit into. Didn't play well with its siblings. Came home and I guess papa decided its spawn needed to be eliminated. Just as well--he would've been food for a predator if he'd lived.


If a TRUE sith species is born like that I suppose it might justify calling them an evil race...still, there are the few exceptions...or this may just be a misconception and caricature. Remember, it was dark jedi conquerors responsible for all the 'sith lord' stuff. The species lead their lives as just another society prior to that. Keep that in mind.

Edit: one more thing: Scapegoating. I think some of you might be looking for scapegoats, someone to blame for everything and to unite everyone. Keep in mind that it is social engineering amongst the very lowest order. That is how masses are indoctrinated with prejudice and hatred. If you want an ignorant society, go ahead with it.

Don't whine when after several millenia they have produced little of worth...should the society still be intact after that long

Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 08-29-2008 at 02:35 AM. Reason: One more thing
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:01 AM   #175
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I think that the True Sith should be kept ambiguous until the MMO Kotor game comes out and we find that they are harder to kill then Rancors.


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Old 08-29-2008, 09:23 AM   #176
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I don't think the True Sith call themselves the True Sith.
Kreia spoke in riddles. She spoke in the terms "a certain point of view".
She implanted the idea that there is something worse out there, a boogieman.

I think Kreia knew if the Republic/Jedi knew there was no threat out there, which can not be measured, it creates a fear or wanting of preparedness. She wanted to make the Galaxy ready including the Jedi for a coming conflict even if it never happens.
Kreia saw the Jedi get comfortable. She will implant the idea of the True Sith who could keep everyone on their toes. But…..

I do believe there is a True Sith. Kreia has been on MalachorV and studied the remains of this ancient Sith Empire. She still has not told the Exile all she knows. She knows that all you need to do is use the information you have to give the person a push in the direction she wants them to go. Kreia will release information to cement her ideas and suggestions.

The True Sith are a sect of Sith who are die hard in the ancient beliefs of the culture, a culture that was destroyed by the Jedi and the Republic along time ago.

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Old 08-30-2008, 01:47 PM   #177
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She did speak in riddles...which means that it might not be an armada of sorts, but a single being, or possibly one that does not know they are but is destined to become. So maybe it could Revan or the Exile who become the True Sith.

Kreia said the True Sith was in the unknown and Revan went there to stop it and did it without any allies or attachments. Maybe he foresaw himself becoming the destruction of the galaxy and left everything to save the galaxy from him.Or maybe it was the Exile he foresaw and went to find the Exile in the Unknown thinking S/He was there and now waits for His/Her arrival.


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Old 09-10-2008, 07:12 PM   #178
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Yeah, I kind of wonder if the "true sith" thing isn't some kind of phony build up.

--Like what you must face alone on the outer rim, where you cannot take (with you) the ones you love...

Sounds like inner demons possibly. Facing oneself. .....just thought I'd throw it out there.

Frankly I'm just as puzzled as anyone else, I guess.

Perhaps in order to have things play out in the future the way they did: Darth Rivan, Darth Bane and the rule of two, Jedi Vs Sith war, Ruusan Reformation, and all that; the force had to lead away the only ones who could possibly prevent it from playing out that way...

Why wouldn't they just obey the will of the force if they were canonically light sided?
Simply, it's revan and the exile...duh... so I seriously doubt they'd sit idly by and just let it all happen. Sort of like divine intervention, the force drew them away because the galaxy needed to re-strengthen itself BY itself.

Again just a suggestion.

Though there was a sith species, is it not possible they died out and went extinct?
I doubt they'd be *necessarily* or absolutely any more evil than other sentient species by nature. But I could be wrong.

The charicature given them is that these creatures are powerful, blind, malleable, left handed (morally & literally) and destined for evil.
The pics on wookieepedia I seen of them look almost indian/asian/arabic.

I'm no sympathizer of their extremism, or any other. However, I absolutely resent the whole "left handed is absolutely evil" Notion. I'm left handed.

Back to my point, the species is either extinct and a sinister figure is in the ranks--possibly more powerful than revan and exile combined, or the species is in hoards...and their leaders are still just so powerful.

It's a tossup. Rakatadark, I would agree the ambiguity would make it interesting. If it is to be more well written than the previous episode, we'll need to find out eventually.


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Old 09-10-2008, 08:34 PM   #179
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Copied from another post I made in another thread:
I could write a book on this, but here is a brief overview of what I think the "true Sith" are (though I doubt this was is what Kreia had in mind):

The Sith (species) that the Exiles came upon and lorded over in 6,900 BBY were said to be a primitive race, knowing little about the cosmos and worshiping natural phenomena as deities (thus why they were so quick to honor the conquering Dark Jedi as gods). But it is said that in 28,000 BBY, Sith king Adas of Korriban defeated the Rakata and relocated his people to the nearby planet Ziost, suggesting that they were accustomed to space travel at the time. How then are they a primitive people by the time the Exiles come around?

I believe that at some point either Adas himself or one of his successors must have observed a drastic difference in the Sith people: some were modernists while other held onto their archaic ways. Believing the latter group to have been weak and unworthy, the modernist Sith abandoned Ziost and the school of Sith who were behind the times, and set off to build an empire elsewhere, eventually coming upon the Unknown Regions and building the Trayus Academy on Malachor V.

So we have a rift in the Sith race: those modernists who set out for the Unknown regions and those who stuck to their old ways. The former group would consider themselves the "true Sith," and the latter group was left to devolve on Ziost, eventually conquered by exiled Dark Jedi who founded the first Sith Empire. All the while the "true Sith" were building an empire of their own in the Unknown Regions, plotting to take over the galaxy when the time was ripe. Revan may have found evidence of their existence during his time as Dark Lord, and these memories may have come flooding back sometime after the events of the first Knights of the Old Republic game. This may have been why he departed for the Unknown Regions: to battle this potential threat to the Republic and the galaxy (or, in continuation the non-canonical dark side ending, to his new Sith Empire).

I know that I've posted many very different theories in this and other threads on the subject already, but I'm not committed to any one theory as the subject at hand is very ambiguous.


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Old 09-11-2008, 04:59 PM   #180
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"Kissai and Massassi are two subspecies of the original Sith race of Korriban. The Kissai are the priests and spiritual leaders who indoctrinate their comerades in the teachings of the Sith. The Massassi are ferocious, selfless soldiers led by the great Sith Lords." -- Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

There is a whole background story to both speices. Massassi and Kissai end up leaving Korriban and resettling on Yavin IV and Ziost. There is more to the story, but I have to finish reading it through.


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I know that I've posted many very different theories in this and other threads on the subject already, but I'm not committed to any one theory as the subject at hand is very ambiguous.
True. Very true. There is so much to the expanded universe. Once you think a mystery has been solved, another fact or piece is added to the mix.
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Old 09-11-2008, 05:23 PM   #181
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Crap! I don't even play the RPG and I might buy this book!


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Old 09-11-2008, 05:39 PM   #182
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Crap! I don't even play the RPG and I might buy this book!
I'm willing to bet the answer to who are the true Sith? is right in front of us. All we have to do is piece things together. I'm beginning to theorize that the Sith species was turned into a triad.

spoiler:
Massassi, Kissai, and the original fallen Jedi. Massassi and Kissai being the original two species that originated on Korriban.

Look at what I found:
The Massassi
The Kissai
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:40 PM   #183
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you're right I think

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Originally Posted by PoiuyWired View Post
Hmmm... Tinkerbell True Sith...

Well, from what I remember, the dark jedis of the 2nd schism took command of the True Sith people, became their leader and god, and interbreed(ack... them girls are ugly) with them. So in a way most True Sith believe is a version of the Sith Code. Now, that is not necessarily a bad thing either. The problem is that most True Sith are killed off, the republic pulls a genocide on Korriban, or something like that. The rest are probably scattered in small pockets around the galaxy, probably where few people come into contact. Now there is that one planet where you may find the True Sith civilization...
I think you are exactly right. Revan is trying to overthrow the true sith empire (the true sith are oppressing lots of indigenous people maybe) and you help revan create a democracy, or use him to install yourself as new Dark Lord
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Old 10-02-2008, 08:45 AM   #184
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I'm willing to bet the answer to who are the true Sith? is right in front of us. All we have to do is piece things together. I'm beginning to theorize that the Sith species was turned into a triad.

spoiler:
Massassi, Kissai, and the original fallen Jedi. Massassi and Kissai being the original two species that originated on Korriban.

Look at what I found:
The Massassi
The Kissai
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spoiler:
"Kissai and Massassi are two subspecies of the original Sith race of Korriban. The Kissai are the priests and spiritual leaders who indoctrinate their comerades in the teachings of the Sith. The Massassi are ferocious, selfless soldiers led by the great Sith Lords." -- Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

There is a whole background story to both speices. Massassi and Kissai end up leaving Korriban and resettling on Yavin IV and Ziost. There is more to the story, but I have to finish reading it through.


True. Very true. There is so much to the expanded universe. Once you think a mystery has been solved, another fact or piece is added to the mix.

I see you've read the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide hehe, there is very little new information in this guide, as I too have it, and all previous Essential guides, Guide books, comics and games.
It's what we have known for years but worded slightly differently, with a few tidbits from the current comic lines added in. check the other sources for the two links you gave

Massassi were first introduced in 1982 then retconned, they have kept there current back story and appearance relatively as is, for 14 years, and while the name kissai is only a couple of years old we have been aware that there were other caste's of the sith species for the same amount of time, again the mixing of the Exiled Dark Jedi with said species is very old news.
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