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Old 07-16-2001, 05:44 AM   #41
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lol. Nice post Jimi, nice post.

and you're more or less right about me with your quote. but that's not entierly my reason for finding fault in the force.

Ok, my reason for calling the force a "bad" pseudo religion is that the force seems to have no revlance to ANYBODY in the SW galaxy except for that one person in 6 billion who has a high midiclorine (however the heck you're supposed to spell it) counts.

And even for them the forces only pourpose for existing seems to be for granting these handful of a handful of a handful of people superpowers.

The force doesn't seem to have any guidelines showing people how they can live a better life, or even attain any kind of a spiritual enlightenment (although I suppose I could argue the same thing about Christianity). No messages such as "possesions are fleeting" just that there's a weird "force" everywhere, and if you're one of those VERY lucky one in 6 billion people with a lot of a special microbe in your blood, and you feel "it" you'll gain superpowers.

And that is why I call it a bad pseudo-religion.


"Weeeeeeee!!! I just accidentally BLOOOOOOOOOOWED up the droid command ship, oopsie! he he he, say whatever happened to those other 100 driod command ships we saw orbiting the planet in the begining of the movie??? oopsie!!!! he he he"

-Anakin Skywalker (future Dark Lord of the Sith)
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Old 07-16-2001, 06:38 AM   #42
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<font color=cbcbff> Hey, Don't diss clans. I'm a proud member of the Jedi Order(JK clan) on the zone. Just because you choose to be with friends in a clan doesn't mean you are a dork. Anyway the lightsaber is a must in this game, regardless of its relevence in other Star Wars games. Kyle simply HAS to kick butt. I don't understand though. If he turned evil in MotS and he had an orange bladed lightsaber, then gave up being a Jedi directly after. When did he make this blue-bladed lightsaber?
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Old 07-16-2001, 10:58 AM   #43
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he had never made his own obi...


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Old 07-16-2001, 11:34 AM   #44
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This is my opinion. It may be wrong. But i dont think so.

Kyle got Rahns saber.Green? Rite? Then as a light jedi he got Yuns in JK.Yellow? Correct? i believe it changed color in MotS because he made his own.Orange. Then he gave it to Luke Skywalker cause he didnt want to go to the darkside.(symbolism?) Then somehow he manages to find or make a blue one.


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Old 07-16-2001, 11:39 AM   #45
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i think the one he got from yun, is the same one he gave to luke...
im almost 100% sure of it...thats also why itd be a logical explanation, this is even covered on another thread


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Old 07-16-2001, 03:15 PM   #46
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I think the whole issue could be avoided quite easily by simply letting you choose your lightsaber color at the begining of a new SP game. Heck, maybe they could even let you choose a different outfit/skin for kyle. And BIG DEAL if it doesn't match up with the cutscenes. We're all intelligent enough to know what's going on, or if it bothers us that much we merely stick to the default skin/lightsaber. Seeing as a lot of this game will doubtlessly be played in 3rd person, the look of your character is a bit more important than quake, and custimizing is a GREAT option then IMHO.

I hope this is an option, because I find the yellowish/Orangish lightsaber to be fairly ugly.

And Obi, maybe WD Torment on these boards here has colored my view of clans with all of his constant egotistical bragging self-serving "elite" crap, so in the favor of maintaining peace on these boards I retract my infamous clan comment. cool?

And I didn't say Kyle shouldn't have a lightsaber. I've even went on in other posts on how to make saber control better. I was just pointing out to someone who said without the Jedi SW is just like ANY other SF that that's just bugus, there are a ton of other things that make SW unique.

[ July 16, 2001: Message edited by: The Wanderer ]


"Weeeeeeee!!! I just accidentally BLOOOOOOOOOOWED up the droid command ship, oopsie! he he he, say whatever happened to those other 100 driod command ships we saw orbiting the planet in the begining of the movie??? oopsie!!!! he he he"

-Anakin Skywalker (future Dark Lord of the Sith)
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Old 07-16-2001, 07:22 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jimi-Wan:
<STRONG>wow, quite a fight we have here.

Obi Wan does have a point, but its not 100% true. oh hails yes the jedi helped SW become the big thing it is now, but it wasn't the only thing, atleast for me.

now, i do agree w/ wanderer, there are a lot of cool things in the SW universe other than Jedi(droids, X-Wings, blasters, all the alien species, HAN FRIGGIN SOLO!, to name a few of many).

but, i also disagree w/ wanderer about the force... to a point. now, when GL first wrote SW, he got many of the ideas about the force from mythology and whatnot. so, the force was made up, but from mythology. so it seems its up to us to figure out if the myths are true, and if there is a


i think this thread has taken a whole new direction, dont you?</STRONG>
Hmmmm.....This sounds good about the force being an ancient myth thing that our good friend mr Lucas created this all from. Tel me more tell me more!!
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Old 07-16-2001, 10:51 PM   #48
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Ok, you want more Obi Wan? I'll give you all i got, or all i can remember. Now, I dont know much of what and where GL got this stuff from, but i know a little.

Midichlorians- obvious. You see, all living things have cells, and in those cells they have these energy-producing micro-organisms called mitochondria. This is actually a fact, but GL did add some stuff to it, as you may know.

Telekinesis- another obvious one, ever heard of Uri Geller (or however you spell it)? in case you havent heard, he's the guy a few decades ago that said that he could bend spoons w/ his mind. Fact, he said this, whether or not he actually did it or not, is up to you and your imagination.

Ability to see the future- again, obvious. i can sum this up into one word.... Psychics.

Those are the powers that actually have an obvious backstory. These, however, dont...
superhuman speed, superhuman jump, and the ability to "have a strong influence on the weak minded".

I know Im forgetting a lot of powers, and im also not even mentioning others, because im going by the films only, and not the EU stuff.

Man, i think we need to move this into Yoda's Swamp, what was the original topic? oh yeah, "Save the Lightsaber".


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Old 07-16-2001, 11:45 PM   #49
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Ok *cracks knuckles* I'll try and make this short (I do have a tendency to be long winded)

Midichlorines... yes, everybody has mitochondria. it's a scientific fact. But,uh.. what's so mystical spiritual or religious about that? Don't you feel that the inclusion of "midichlorines" watered down the force, changing what was a mystical thing into bad Sci-Fi pseudo science better suited to star trek?

Uri Geller and telekinesis and seeing the future...
http://home.xnet.com/~blatura/skep_2.html

Also there's a rather infamous incident with Uri Geller that I don't remember reading there. Years ago Uri Geller went on the tonight show, and Johnny Carson (a skeptic) replaced uri's spoons with other spoons. Oddly enough Uri found himself unable to preform any of his tricks. Psychic impotence if you will

I think that Lucas didn't do any reasearch into myths to create specific force ability as much as he just chose some rather common "superpowers" that were "neat"

And as far as getting off topic... hey, I tried to talk about lightsabers and skins and whatnot


"Weeeeeeee!!! I just accidentally BLOOOOOOOOOOWED up the droid command ship, oopsie! he he he, say whatever happened to those other 100 driod command ships we saw orbiting the planet in the begining of the movie??? oopsie!!!! he he he"

-Anakin Skywalker (future Dark Lord of the Sith)
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Old 07-16-2001, 11:54 PM   #50
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there is an actual mythological SW class that they held somewhere where they covered each mythological reference that George Lucas used I'm sure others out there know of this. If you don't beleive us or me then I suggest you email the G. Lucas yourself. hehe



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Old 07-17-2001, 06:19 PM   #51
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Quote:
Don't you feel that the inclusion of "midichlorines" watered down the force, changing what was a mystical thing into bad Sci-Fi pseudo science better suited to star trek?
Hell yes. They should've left it more vague and mystical. Instead of analyzing and measuring force potential through science, it would've been far more philosophical if they were to leave you pondering about the source of the force and the reasons certain individuals have higher potential than others.
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Old 07-17-2001, 10:51 PM   #52
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it was never meant to be vague and mystikal
the Jedi had devoted their lives to learning about and studying and living for the Force, they trained their students through that type of understanding....they only stopped making mention of it when all the Jedi were assassinated, i guess Yoda thought Luke should go in a different direction in a more intangible sense for future Jedi...i dunno


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Old 07-18-2001, 02:28 AM   #53
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so you're saying i's Ok with you that the force is merely bad pseudo science now?


"Weeeeeeee!!! I just accidentally BLOOOOOOOOOOWED up the droid command ship, oopsie! he he he, say whatever happened to those other 100 driod command ships we saw orbiting the planet in the begining of the movie??? oopsie!!!! he he he"

-Anakin Skywalker (future Dark Lord of the Sith)
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Old 07-18-2001, 02:45 AM   #54
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whether its 'ok' with me or not..im gonna have to live with it
i can dig that they want to make it that, since those events did happen before in the course of the timeline, it was kinda supposed to be a science the whole time...
i can grasp where it could be headed, or what its purpose is...its not so far out if you think about it
its kinda easier to swallow when its from Georgie himself...i mean, EU i can understand if people raise eyebrows, but this is straight from the creators brain, we cant knock his world
later


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Old 07-18-2001, 04:45 AM   #55
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To touch base on what C.H.A.S. kind of said. I don't think Kyle is much of a Jedi. He trains himself, for the most part, uses someone elses lightsaber, never truely building his own lightsaber, then takes Yun's. I know he was off on a mission and couldn't build his own lightsaber so thats the real reason he took Yun's. But I guess hes just following the Jedi code which clearly states, "You must foolishly loose your lightsaber when in the heat of battle!". That is why Qui-Gon was such a rouge Jedi, the council was ticked cause he never lost his lightsaber! Unlike, Luke and Obi-Wan who have both lost about 20 lightsabers, lol. Anyhow, I think that a Jedi Knight style game from LA, can not go without a lightsaber for the simple reason that that is what makes the game so special, along with force powers and a good story line. Cause no other games have lightsabers. I think that would be cool if your first weapon was a belt! So you could wip the cra* out of anyone who came across you!

Well I didn't notice there were 3 pages, so my post kind of picks up where the first page left off.

[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: Dr_Strangelove ]


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Old 07-18-2001, 06:07 AM   #56
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A belt ehh...You mean like an indy jones whip.
*Starts humming theme song*

Oh and crap isn't censored. ****, ****, *******, ***** , bastard, and maybe ass are though.


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Old 07-18-2001, 11:34 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by C.H.A.S.:
<STRONG>Good point grezzer.

My friends and I all liked the saber and i personally thought it added the Jedi aspect to the game even if he only had Force Powers. I mean a Jedi isn't a Jedi until he's passed the final test of constructing a lightsaber. Also how can you call yourself a Jedi if you've never deflected 100 lasers going 100mph from 100 stormtroopers back at the enemy and blew them up into 1,000 parts.

</STRONG>
Whoa!! Thats a lot of lasers to deflect!

Although personaly the Saber system they had for JK wasn't really all that great but it gets the job done (meaning it makes it easy to use and fun). I play JK for the saber and the saber alone. I don't care about the guns. I' all Sith


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Old 07-18-2001, 03:25 PM   #58
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As long as thereis no Nerf Sabers mod, I don't care!


Needing a new sig idea to get rid of:
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Old 07-19-2001, 07:46 PM   #59
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Does anyone else no about the myth that GL got the force form and where he got it from?
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Old 07-19-2001, 11:24 PM   #60
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SSJ7Viper3k, im suprised that wardz hasn't hassled you about the extreem size of your sig yet. if he hasnt, watch out, he prob will soon...
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Old 07-21-2001, 02:42 AM   #61
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NERF SABERS YEAAAAAAAAAAAAA!@



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Old 07-21-2001, 06:51 AM   #62
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Getting back to the color of Kyle's lightsaber... I thought that Outcast takes place after JK but before MotS, this would nullify anything about Kyle turning evil or having an orange saber. Personally, I think the reason he has a blue saber is becuase he finally got around to building his own. Well, that, or the guys at Raven just like blue better then yellow! HA


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Old 07-24-2001, 10:53 PM   #63
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First of all, I'm anticipating a flame or few over this post. This is my first post here, so I might be starting out on the wrong foot. But anyway.

If somebody has an actually shred of proof the Kyle’s saber will actually be blue in the release, I will take this back, but it seems to me that since all the screenshots and previews are all basically made to give example. At E3, JK II was said to be only 3 months in. We don’t even know the whole story arc yet.

I admit that its nifty to brain storm, but to actually generate anger because somebody said they hated the Lightsaber is kind of foolish. That’s why games such as JK and Quake let you switch weapons. I for one am eternally fascinated by the Jedi/Sith/Force portions of the Star Wars Universe. It seems to me that EU allows Star Wars fans to become masters of the world that George Lucas created. They took up the challenge of writing books and storylines that expanded many different aspects. I’ve seen arguments and bickering over games that are no different then such books.

We have games that span from X-Wing to Jedi Knight, each having its own scope and span in the Universe. I think games like Jedi Knight are prime examples of great mixtures of these aspects. In JK, if you didn’t want to ambush the numerous enemies with your Lightsaber, you switched it off.

I know I’m responding late to many posts on this section, but I hope I’ve made some points. I can’t wait for this game to come out. It’s like waiting for the next movie. People say Episode I was just utterly terrible, and others say they loved it. But I both types will be back to see the next one. I’m straying far from the point, but I tend to do it, and I hope it will be accepted a bit.

I basically played, and still play JK because of the Jedi/Force/Lightsaber aspects of the game. I can honestly say there were better games out if you just wanted to blow something up. I’m hoping JK II will expand far beyond my hopes and dreams for these aspects.

But the game is still months from release, and lots will change. I think we need to hold on tight until then and not rip each other apart over speculations and ideals.

Anyway, I’ll keep a few band-aids around for when you people rip on me. But I hope to post back again soon and get involved in these discussions.


"Then he got up and went away leaving behind his silence."
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Old 07-24-2001, 11:01 PM   #64
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::rolls out welcome wagon::
sorry, im all out of flames at the moment
his saber will be blue, i know it...
sorry, im currently out of gift baskets too! ask someone else for one


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Old 07-25-2001, 02:16 AM   #65
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better late than never, heres a basket (tho i never got one) and good ideas.

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Old 07-25-2001, 02:19 AM   #66
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i didnt get a basket either, consider it a part of being a semi-veteran heh, its not even THAT late, we still got around a year before the game if they do some well-executed delays


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Old 07-25-2001, 09:43 PM   #67
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ya, its almost humorous that people are screaming and kicking for info, and its prob over a year off...

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Old 07-26-2001, 01:14 PM   #68
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hey guys this is my first time here the lightsaber has to be the main waepon in jk2
its simply awesome .i bet well get to kick some siths ass
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Old 07-26-2001, 01:41 PM   #69
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I'm hoping for some good Lightsaber battles also. I've heard discussion of MP Co-op around other boards and that would be the greatest thing. Once in a while death after death after death would get old, and I'd crave a team game. That would be better then JK team games by far.

I liked the fact that a Lightsaber forces you to be up close and personal, and not just be pecking at somebody with a laser from the other corner of the world. I'm beginning to be fearful of the saber throw. Destruction was cool, but it got everybody into the habit of waiting until there were two or three people fighting, and a single blast would toast all of them. A saber throw sounds like a good replacement for this.

I hope there is a better balance between the Forces too. I've heard there won't be a light or a dark side and I think this may be better if its true. I don't think it was possible for somebody using the Light side to win in a DM with 3 or more dark Jedi blasting around. Sure, you can protect yourself, keep yourself from dieing, but the others were using grip and destruction to waste each other 100's of times a piece, and I just could never score high enough against that.

I sure hope that there is better protection from cheaters in JK II. It got really old when you were having a good time with some friends, and some moron decided it would be fun to fly around Canyon Oasis with repeating Force destruction.

I like what I've seen about the Lightsaber in the levels leaving streaks and gashes. I think the more realistic all the weapons are, the better the game will be. I also liked the way the lightning surged and flowed.

Now that I have a system good enough to handle games like this, I can't wait for Outcast... I actually wouldn't mind it not being a lot different then JK except the realism. JK kept me coming back no matter how many times I beat a level. Probably because I just liked killing things with a Lightsaber. Give Quake III or UT a Lightsaber and I'll buy that game too. I'd rather fragg people in ROTT if I'm there for the guns and the blood. I mean...who doesn't like to Filch a Flamewall? But THIS is Star Wars.

[ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Uber ]


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