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Old 08-04-2001, 08:23 PM   #1
Alan Byrne
 
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Post Enough about the lightsaber(for now), I want to talk about blasters

Sorry if this thread already exists, but my connection is pretty slow and it would take forever to search through four pages.

Anyway...
Will blasters have a stun option?
Another thread has had a discussion about how civilians get in your way pretty much every time you see them, so if you stunned them, it would prevent you from killing them, which would stop your mana going down like in MotS.


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Old 08-04-2001, 08:30 PM   #2
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Lightsaber Schmlightsaber is what I always say. Love the topic - I like this guy already.
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Old 08-04-2001, 08:33 PM   #3
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Im glad someone has brought up this topic....there are similar weapon ones...but this seems more specific (i.e. blasters), and we havent had a topic like this since we've had the new previews and information anyway (however little it may be).

Little is still known about the weapons....i think they did mention a few of the old ones returning along with a stun gun of some sort. More information will be released in a few months....the most informative will probably be around christmas seeing as that wont be long before the game is released. Actually, the game preview may make the christmas editions of PC magazines which would be a good selling point for the game as this is when most people buy the magazines.

Weapons interest me more than sabers....actually...a good question...who here will play the game completely with a sabre and the force..and who will play completely with weapons??


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Old 08-04-2001, 08:43 PM   #4
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I am looking forwar to being a Jedi, and all that ecompases (sp? its late) it.

I just hope that guns are a little better in this. What annoyed me in MOTS is that the weapons just didn't feel right, even the conc didn't feel like it should.

In Duke Nukem, when i whipped out the devastator i had a feeling of power, JK just didn't have that feel.

Does anyone else agree?

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Old 08-04-2001, 09:00 PM   #5
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Yea, the conc riffle just felt like a large water pistol . Raven will sort it out though. Another reason it didnt feel realistic because the kick back was all wrong and just didnt feel right. In ST:V EF you actually felt as if you were holding something devastating like the photon launcher. Even my mum goes "wow...are you havin a war in there or somethin". That also shows how good the surround Sound quality was and the EAX. If someone shot behind you, then you actually went to duck. The sound in EF was of the highest quality in my opinion. The music was also very gripping

If JK2 is of the same high quality then Raven are on to a WINNER once again.

[ August 04, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainRAVE ]


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Old 08-04-2001, 09:58 PM   #6
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Im also intersted in weapons
I dont want the game to be too saber focused
The balance in JK was great

stuning sounds like a great idea, most civilians are only bothering you
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Old 08-04-2001, 09:59 PM   #7
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I would like to have a stun mode on my blaster. Come on, have you ever seen a jedi whip out a blaster set to kill and clean out a room full of stormtroppers?


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Old 08-05-2001, 01:12 AM   #8
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perhaps different power settings, like a powerful one that uses up more energy and is slower, down to a light setting thats fast but doesnt do much damage.


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Old 08-05-2001, 02:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Weapons interest me more than sabers....actually...a good question...who here will play the game completely with a sabre and the force..and who will play completely with weapons??
Umm, I mix them. The idea that Jedi should run around with just sabers has always struck me as a little silly because they're depriving themselves of any form of nonlethal weapon. But the saber is generally my first choice in the original game's SP, so I don't imagine that changing.

[ August 04, 2001: Message edited by: Denise ]
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Old 08-05-2001, 05:08 AM   #10
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The Lightsaber is my favorite, but it felt like a glowing baseball bat that you clumsily (????) batted around. The guns were also one or two colored squared of sticks that shot really slow bright peas, hence them being pea shooters... ok the humors' off. I'm tired, I just hope Raven can bring a more real feeling to these completley fantasy weapons... I'll shut up now


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Old 08-05-2001, 01:09 PM   #11
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Yep it's a pity that the lightsaber was so weak in JK/MotS that we had little choice but to laugh at it, rightfully so.

Jedi Outcast's stun baton might do the stunning work you long for, Wraith Leader.


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Old 08-05-2001, 02:12 PM   #12
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thatd be.......... stunning??? (groan)


if they didnt include it i'd be....... shocked? (hehehe)

lets just hope raven takes....... charge of the situation


ok, thats enough........


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Old 08-05-2001, 03:18 PM   #13
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Oh behave, Austin!

Last I heard Raven was still only considering allowing the stun option on the stormie rifle. The confirmed presence of the stun baton, which Wilhuf mentioned earlier, makes the presence of such a optional fire mode on the Stormie Rifle less likely to happen.

From where I stand that is a shame. Assuming the Stun Baton will only be able to operate in short ranges (as far as you can reach to swing it), we might as well assign the cool blue stun fire to the stormie rifle and free up another weapon slot for a more interesting weapon that can replace the Stun Baton. Secondary fire for the stormie rifle might already belong to the Scope for sniping, but I have seen 3 modes of fire for one weapon and that would not be a problem.

One could also argue that the stun baton is better suited for single player only. It sounds like Raven is going to encourage much more sneaking around in JK2 then the original (judging by for example how well enemies react to the slightest sound) and perhaps the Stun Baton makes a lot less noise when it comes in contact with its target, as opposed to the Stun Mode of stormie rifle which admits that sexy rippled sound.

In multiplayer deathmatch, unless the Stun Baton somehow freezes the victim in place like carb instead of dropping them like the the Stormie Stun in ANH, I can't image it being too fun and useful. But by those same merits I suppose stun mode on a Stormie Rifle wouldn't be that useful in deathmatch either, because even it has a greater range it would still have the same effect, rendering the victim uncousious and dropping him to the floor. Imo, deathmatch is about, well, death. Unless you can mess with them after they are 'stunned' (ala carb), I say forget it.

Stun via stomrie rifle (preferred by me) or stun baton in multiplayer co-op would still be useful though.
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Old 08-05-2001, 03:26 PM   #14
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As long as there were some risks involved in using the stun baton in multiplayer (e.g. you have to traverse the distance with your target), I'd say the stun baton might be a fun weapon.

BTW I wonder what Gamespy were talking about when they mentioned that Jedi Outcast will feature 'compulsion' weapons. Was this simply a typo for 'concussion weapons?'

[ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]


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Old 08-05-2001, 06:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainRAVE:
<STRONG>Weapons interest me more than sabers....actually...a good question...who here will play the game completely with a sabre and the force..and who will play completely with weapons?? </STRONG>
If the game is properly structured, and the weapons well balanced, it should be perfectly possible to do either.

Quote:
Originally posted by Denise:
<STRONG>Umm, I mix them. The idea that Jedi should run around with just sabers has always struck me as a little silly because they're depriving themselves of any form of nonlethal weapon.</STRONG>
Yeah, fair enough, but the Force is a non-lethal weapon, isn't it. It's possible for Jedi to "persuade" enemies to let them pass peacefully, to push them away, etc.


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Old 08-05-2001, 07:13 PM   #16
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In regard to the stun baton, it would be fun if you used Force persuasion to become invisible, then woalked straight up to a stormie and whacked him.
But long range stunning would be useful, and if Raven can implement this well - for example, you should be able to stun both in and out of the stomtrooper rifle scope - then I don't think the stung baton will be very popular.
However, there is a problem with the whole idea of stunning your enemies. Problems will arise, such as:
the length of time your enemies are unconscious for;
whether stormtroopers react to stunned colleagues;
whether, upon waking up from being stunned, stormies search for you instead of just standing on their post.
If Raven can come up with intelligent solutions to these problems, I will be in awe, and a happy customer.


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Old 08-05-2001, 07:38 PM   #17
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If they're including saber throw they're going to have a hard time explaining why you can't throw a stun baton or any other melee weapon...

And Matt, that's all fine and dandy except that even as a Jedi, personally I'd like an alternative to constant use of the Force. How many Jedi died in the purges simply because they'd become overconfident in their abilities with the Force? I mean, Tim Zahn has already shown a couple inventive ways for "normal" people to deal with Force users, yes?
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Old 08-05-2001, 07:47 PM   #18
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Huh? What do I have to do with this thread?


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Old 08-05-2001, 08:50 PM   #19
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Oops, Ed, not Matt. My mistake. Sorry.
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Old 08-06-2001, 06:11 AM   #20
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I'd assume the reason for having a stun baton rather than a stun setting on an ST rifle has to do with range. It'd require you to sneak right up behind someone in order to knock them out silently.

I remember hearing WAAAAAY back when they first previewed Obi Wan in one of the gaming mags (PC Gamer I think) that Obi Wan was going to have gameplay elements similar to Thief. Basically just more stealth elements. Mayhaps they plan to do the same thing with Outcast? I certainly wouldn't complain, I rather like the idea, Thief happens to be bar none my absolute favorite game of all time

And Wraith, "Stunning" has been done very succesfully in other games, so it really isn't a problem. if it's implimented anything like Thief a "stunned" enemy remains unconcious throughout the duration of the level, and guards become alerted and search for you after stumbling upon an unconcious body.


I prefer all this sneaking around to a straight fight


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Old 08-06-2001, 02:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denise:
<STRONG>even as a Jedi, personally I'd like an alternative to constant use of the Force.</STRONG>
Well that's fine, it's your choice of course, but then it's you who's denying yourself the use of a non-lethal weapon (the Force) rather than Jedi in general.


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Old 08-06-2001, 03:15 PM   #22
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Originally posted by The Wanderer
Quote:
And Wraith, "Stunning" has been done very succesfully in other games, so it really isn't a problem. if it's implimented anything like Thief a "stunned" enemy remains unconcious throughout the duration of the level, and guards become alerted and search for you after stumbling upon an unconcious body.

I prefer all this sneaking around to a straight fight.
Thats fair enough Wanderer, but I think there would be many more people who would question this. It is a first person shooter and not a first person sneaker after all. While I personally, am excited at the added stealth supposedly in JK2, Raven wont add too much I would guess because they dont want to alienate people who are JK fans but dont want to be forever sneaking.

Also Thief didnt have a multiplayer mode, did it? Thus they didnt have to comprehend the affect of weapons in a non-AI environment, Raven most certainly have to do this with the stun baton.


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Old 08-06-2001, 03:37 PM   #23
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Well, I'm still hoping Jedi Outcast will attach a grenade launcher to the Imperial Repeater. Here's how I would do it:

Imperial Repeater primary fire is the standard-fire, rapid repeating rounds, like an assault rifle (btw I hope the repeater is hitscan, but still lightsaber blockable. That would give the repeater some well-deserved respect.) Fast, medium-long range, lower damage, high rate of fire, hitscan. Basically an assault rifle or maybe submachinegun.

Secondary fire, the grenade launcher propels a grenade at your target. Note, this is not like throwing a grenade. The grenade is actually launched with fairly high speed and range. Speed and range more like the grenade launcher from Aliens v Predator (but not quite as fast), or the Half-Life Mp5 grenade launcher. This is exactly what the Imperials would do to improve the Repeater. Flexible and efficient.

How cool would it be to be able to switch out grenade types on your repeater? E.g. load up a flash grenade and fire off a few rounds to blind opponents, covering your assault ingress. Then load some thermal grenades into your rifle and unleash some firey death, while covering your assault with an enfilade of supressive repeater rounds. Good for digging out campers. Mmm-mmm-good™!

Or maybe you switch to proximity grenades. You fire them at floors and walls, and they stick to surfaces, primed and active. If anything walks nearby, the grenades detonate. Great for covering your assault egress. Ruin your pursuer's day.


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Old 08-06-2001, 08:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by ed_silvergun:
<STRONG>

Well that's fine, it's your choice of course, but then it's you who's denying yourself the use of a non-lethal weapon (the Force) rather than Jedi in general.</STRONG>
I'm not, I was stating my intention to use both instead of one or the other. But if you exhaust your Force energy, if the game puts you in a situation where you can't expose yourself as a Jedi --heck, if you run into some ysalmiri? Where are you then?

Up a Forceless creek without a nonlethal paddle, that's where. **giggles**
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Old 08-07-2001, 07:00 AM   #25
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Don't worry, I'm not saying it should be just like Thief, nor would I want it to be. I want to hack things with a lightsaber. In general though, I'd like the enemies to be strong and smart enough to be a threat. Threat enough that trying to waltz through the front gate of an imperial base through a legion of storm troopers would get you toasted. I think that the option of a little sneaking around is a good alternative. I like the realism.


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Old 08-07-2001, 07:27 AM   #26
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Well Denise i tend to agree with you however even when Luke was on Mirkr and with the ambush and all in Hyllyard city(i'm sure you remember) He was still able to use his lighsaber to a certain degree in fact he actually threw the damn thing to slice two pillars i believe so that the archway(??) crashed on top of the stormtroopers and all that.
What's my point? well simply put even a "forceless" Jedi can still put up a good fight, mainly i think because of experience.
But still i agree somewhat so dont get me wrong.


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Old 08-07-2001, 08:16 AM   #27
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Yes, but he killed all those stormtroopers, too. Solo was an Imperial before running into Chewbacca, and Skywalker himself wanted to go to the Imperial fleet academy. How many of those troopers are being similarly duped? How many are conscripts? The same book you cite mentions that a substantial number of Imperial crewers were basically drafted. So on and so forth.

Which isn't to say that I'm some sort of whacked out super-pacifist, but having options available is never a bad thing.

------------

And yeah, Thiefy elements in the gameplay are definitely a good thing in my opinion. Just so long as they're a mite smarter than Deus Ex's implementation was.
Stormies that go "Duhhhh... the Jedi just popped by and massacred half the squad, but now he's been out of sight for fifteen seconds... guess I'll go completely idle and act like I've been standing boring guard duty for hours now" just don't appeal. Definitely one of that game's few weaknesses.
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Old 08-07-2001, 12:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denise:
<STRONG>Up a Forceless creek without a nonlethal paddle, that's where. **giggles** </STRONG>
Hehe... yeah, I take your point.


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Old 08-07-2001, 02:14 PM   #29
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This might be slightly off topic, but in general, should the weapons be like they were in JK or should they change? I'm thinking that some changes would be cool, especially effects wise, but would people like that or not? I'm not sure if I would care or not. I guess it also depends on what kinds of changes are made. Maybe if someone is brave enough, this topic deserves its own thread? Heh
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Old 08-07-2001, 04:30 PM   #30
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I think they should be similar, but updated a bit with the new engine. I trust Raven though seein what amazing changes they have already made to the crossbow


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Old 08-08-2001, 01:19 PM   #31
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<STRONG>should the weapons be like they were in JK or should they change? I'm thinking that some changes would be cool, especially effects wise, but would people like that or not?</STRONG>
There definitely needs to be more change than just the effects. We don't want another Jedi Knight just with better effects and graphics.


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Old 08-08-2001, 01:45 PM   #32
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Seems like the JO crossbow may be similar to the Stasis Weapon found in Elite Force.

It has some splash in primary fire, and launches multiple rounds simultaneously in secondary fire.


Wilhuf

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Old 08-08-2001, 05:50 PM   #33
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I hope its like the stasis weapon because the multiple fire on that was amazing. I hadnt thought of it before, but the stasis weapon will be exactly the same nearly.


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