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Old 08-08-2001, 03:46 PM   #1
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Lightsaber control

We keep hearing reports about how the saber control will be better, what with poly to poly collision and all. But I thought it through and with what they are telling us it should be awesome. I've read in various places that control will be part keyboard part mouse. Also there is the comment "saber control will be much improved." In addition I've read that you will need to cut through doors and such to get to certain parts of the level. That in itself sounds fun, but how will that be accomplished? Through a cutscene? Unlikely. Also pressing primary or secondary fire repeatedly is stupid. If you were a Jedi, you would just plunge your saber into the door and wait, much as Qui-Gon did in Ep 1. I know that in the 4:43 preview we saw Kyle's lightsaber leave scorch marks on a wall when he ran into it. But the position he was standing in was hardly the position for cutting through the door. It was more like "I'm not going to move because my lightsaber isn't causing resistance" It looked cool, but at the same time, he wasn't purposely trying to cut into the wall. It just happened to be sitting there. Cutting through a door is a little more planned.

Do any of you remember the part in JK in the level with the tunnels and the gas on the floor that would explode if anyone shot it? (Level 8 or 9 perhaps?) At the end of all those tunnels was a big open room with what looked like a vault in the middle of the floor. You needed to cut through it with your lightsaber. In that game, however, you just hit it and a hole would appear. I'm hoping that Raven is going to do a little bit better job than that this time. So my real question is...How will it be accomplished?


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Old 08-08-2001, 05:55 PM   #2
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I rememeber it...level nine in the fuelling station......but i dont know how that would be accomplished. Actually I find the lightsabre into the wall kind of annoying. There was a mod for it in JK and it was really, really frustrating. Hopefully it wont be as bad in JK2.


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Old 08-08-2001, 06:36 PM   #3
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Maybe it will be sort of like what Obi-Wan was going to have, the Glyph system or something, where you hold down the fire button and move the mouse/joystick around, and the saber moves that direction, like if you moved the mouse/joystick right the saber would move right as long as the mouse/joystick is moving that direction and about the same speed, then you could move the saber back to the left then down quickly and so forth.

And with a system like this you could stab with lightsaber by doing something like walking/running forwards and pressing secondary fire, and if you stab a door the lightsaber could stay in the door until you move backwards, and you could move the saber around to cut a hole in the door for you to get through.


*Stormtrooper commander in front of his troop of stormtroopers walks up to general*

Commander: "We have succesfully defeated those two wookie armies."

*An Ewok starts throwing pebbles*

Stormtroopers: "AAAAAHHHHHGGGGG!"
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Old 08-08-2001, 07:01 PM   #4
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Yea, it might be like that. Raven see things through and dont give up when the going gets tough. But they'll implement which ever system they think suits the game best. I think the system will be more impressive than any of us think it will be.


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Old 08-08-2001, 11:33 PM   #5
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ok, how bout this for sabers on walls, a real jedi wouldnt be so senseless as to clumsly let his saber touch all the walls... they are an eligant weapon, not something you whip around with out a care... if a jedi cannot avoid walls, how is he supposed to avoid himself whilst swinging. maybe your charcter should automatically move his saber, so it misses all the walls, but if you swing, then it could hit walls, and leave marks. so, normally a saber could cut through any wall or door, right? maybe if the door/wall is magneticly sealed (does that stop sabers?!?! if not, why didnt luke use it in the garbage masher) or if the wall leads to something like space, then kyle would stop, and say something cliche like "hmm, dont wanna do that, i dont enjoy being spaced" or "hell no, that door is magnetically sealed".

not a bad idea, eh?

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Old 08-09-2001, 01:17 AM   #6
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Yeah, he should move his saber when he comes to an object for other obvious reasons:
*Kyle walks up to person*
Kyle: "hello I'm Klye Katarn!"
*Kyle moves closer, saber passes through person*
Person: "AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!"
Kyle: "Oops."


*Stormtrooper commander in front of his troop of stormtroopers walks up to general*

Commander: "We have succesfully defeated those two wookie armies."

*An Ewok starts throwing pebbles*

Stormtroopers: "AAAAAHHHHHGGGGG!"
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Old 08-10-2001, 10:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by acdcfanbill:
<STRONG>ok, how bout this for sabers on walls, a real jedi wouldnt be so senseless as to clumsly let his saber touch all the walls... they are an eligant weapon, not something you whip around with out a care... if a jedi cannot avoid walls, how is he supposed to avoid himself whilst swinging. maybe your charcter should automatically move his saber, so it misses all the walls, but if you swing, then it could hit walls, and leave marks. so, normally a saber could cut through any wall or door, right? maybe if the door/wall is magneticly sealed (does that stop sabers?!?! if not, why didnt luke use it in the garbage masher) or if the wall leads to something like space, then kyle would stop, and say something cliche like "hmm, dont wanna do that, i dont enjoy being spaced" or "hell no, that door is magnetically sealed".

not a bad idea, eh?</STRONG>

Because for one its a game. Second, you are in control of the jedi and his lightsaber, so if your clumsy ass goes close to a wall and lets the saber hit it then its your fault.

Sum it up with: If you're that worried about your saber hitting the walls, dont go near them.
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Old 08-10-2001, 12:47 PM   #8
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Actually I like the Saber just scorching if you approach something. Why would he move it automatically, if you want to approach an NPC then retract the blade, as seen in the new X-wing screenshot. If you forget then its your own fault, adds more to the gameplay. Also of course if you leave the saber out it will "burn" through objects it touches, I have confidence Raven will make this a good feature and not a draw back.

While I have no basis to prove this, I believe the Saber would go through magnetic sealing, as this is just magnetic forces being applied. As the saber is solid energy it may puncture it. A possible reason Luke doesnt use it in the gabage compacter is that occured while he was in a stormtrooper suit, he probably left it in the falcon as it wouldnt fit in the suit.


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Old 08-10-2001, 01:52 PM   #9
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Did anyone notice in the new JK pic that Kyle is carrying just the lightsaber hilt without the blade extended? I just thought that was pretty cool.


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Old 08-10-2001, 01:58 PM   #10
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Actually some of us did notice that Lunatic. Read the post "New JK2 X-wing screenshot"


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Old 08-10-2001, 02:11 PM   #11
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lol no need to be rudely sarcastic


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Old 08-10-2001, 03:23 PM   #12
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Forget about the glyth system. The difficulty in actually making it work was one of the reasons LEC killed OW. Might sound nice on paper, but it didn't work to well in the game.
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Old 08-10-2001, 03:57 PM   #13
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I believe your main question of the post was how would/should raven allow the lightsaber to interact with the environment.

Generally speaking, we are not at the point yet where in-game technology or more importantly the average consumer's PC is powerful enough for the lightsaber to manipulate the game environment how it really should (based on its observed movie capabilities).

One of the games these days with a more advanced 3D environment interaction is Red Faction, which has been released on the Playstation and should be coming to PC shortly. Thanks to its most touted feature, Geo-Mod technology, the player can blast walls, floors, ceilings, and more almost all over the levels, not just in scripted portions of the level that need to be destroyed in order to advance.

Even Geo-Mod pales in comparison to what would be required to let a lightsaber realistically manipulate its environment like we know it to be capable of doing. For this to happen there wouldn't just be chunks of a wall that explode into bits or pieces of a ceiling that fall down on lightsaber contact. For true environment manipulation with the lightsaber you are dealing with what is essentially a pretty exquisite carving tool. The actions of the saber would have to be very specifically represented. How specific? Think secondary fire on the Pulse Gun from UT, but slower, and imagine the wall doesn't just show carbon scoring but where penetration is actually achieved and displayed properly.

The levels themselves have limitations that prevent this. You cannot esentially carve out a little cave or West Wing in a level that doesn't have one already- Or doesn't have the space for one. Quake 3-based levels (as well as many others) essentially exist entirely in a hollowed-out big box. You cannot penetrate the final walling of this box and expose the rest of the level to 'The Void' surrounding it. Eventually if you kept carving into a wall you could go no further. You can also build levels in some editors from a 'Block of Clay' standpoint instead of an 'Empty Box' standpoint. Perhaps someone can design something the enables the lightsaber to do some in-game editing

Unfortunately I see little point in theorizing how we might make the lightsaber into the ultimate environment manipulater for JK 2. Maybe for JK 3 when it will be feasible. One limitation is already in place: there will be carbon scoring in JK 2, this is the Scorch Marks the saber leaves that will eventually disappear. This most likely means we will not be seeing the saber stab into walls and other things like a pen through Jello this time around, no matter what.

We can think of some ways that the saber might interact with pre-arranged portions of the environment that are designated to be manipulable, however. In JK we of course had things of such nature, like grates.

To begin with, I would like to see an increased number of things you can slash or stab. Everyday objects, parts of structures, things in nature. And include these things at more inteverals, in places that aren't just for secrets or when you need to advance in the level!

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: Krayt Tion ]
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Old 08-10-2001, 11:33 PM   #14
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Sorry the one who hates Gonks.
But you did think it was cool huh!


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Old 08-11-2001, 11:21 AM   #15
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Ok guys i admit i havnt watched episodes 4-6 in a while, but in the part where luke was in the garbage compactor.. didnt ben kanobi have the saber, cos he then went on to fight vader, and luke didnt get the saber till after ben was killed.. i could be completely wrong, but thats how i remember it.. and to add the what this topic is about, i think its cool the saber can leave scorch marks, i guess cos doors arnt that thick, holdin the saber on a certain point (qui gon didnt just randomly stab the door, it was at a certain point destrying the lock mechanisim or something) might open doors, but walls are just too huge and thick to have much effect.. could that work..????


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Old 08-11-2001, 06:21 PM   #16
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no, both ben, an luke had their own sabers at the time... werent we discussing this elswhwere too?

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