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Old 11-04-2001, 02:30 PM   #1
Philbo
 
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alright, i know it's kinda strange but...

does anyone else miss the older lightsaber battles from the original three, especially like in ROTJ?

i just like them more. they seem more dark, more gothic, more fluent. in episode one they move way too quick and it doesn't add any foreboding or interest. i don't know why. anyone else agree?


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Old 11-04-2001, 03:03 PM   #2
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I really loved the ROTJ battle...far more than TPM's

My worst fear is that they use bullet time in episode 2 or 3.


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Old 11-04-2001, 04:38 PM   #3
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ur right.

that would suck.

stick to the original. i'm tired of all these Matrix-copycats.

glad you agree matt-windu.


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Old 11-04-2001, 06:47 PM   #4
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I liked the ROTJ battles because they acted like real people not like acrobatics on steroids like they did in TPM but in ep2 they've got an actor (can't remember his name) who's a fencer so we're eith gonna

(a) go through the ep1 battles again
(b) we'll get a cross between them
(c) we'll get ROTJ type battles
i chosoe c or b
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Old 11-04-2001, 06:50 PM   #5
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I loved the lightsaber battles on all the movies except A New Hope.




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Old 11-04-2001, 07:12 PM   #6
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they WILL NOT have bullit time in AotC... besides if they did, we would have heard about it, there is no way that can hide the huge amount of equiptment that is required for shooting it, if they had that, someone would know, and tell us

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Old 11-04-2001, 08:31 PM   #7
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My personal favourite in terms of lightsaber battles would have to be...the one in ESB, I think. There were pauses in the fight...but the focus remained on that duel to it's conclusion, which helped to increase the tension. I also think Hamill managed to convey raw emotion in that battle...some of the best acting he did throughout the trilogy.

The problem with ROTJ and TPM was that it kept switching between three different battles. Instead of making it more exciting, it ruined the flow, IMHO.

From a more technical viewpoint, the TPM lightsaber battle is probably better, but I just wish they had not cut it into pieces. It ruined the tension, IMHO.
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Old 11-06-2001, 09:52 PM   #8
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i guess one more thing i always liked...

the beginning of ROTJ, right when Luke get's his lightsaber from R2-D2. he turns it on, sorta crouches to the side while looking at an opponent and twirling his saber in a circle to his side once, and attacks the guy while already looking at his next victim. it looked pretty sweet. one of my favorite parts. hope we can do that in JKII


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Old 11-07-2001, 02:28 AM   #9
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^
i also liked the the beginning of ROTJ saber battle.


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Old 11-07-2001, 04:57 AM   #10
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I always loved the ESB fights personally... they got nice and dirty I'd imagine a lot of real fights to be like that.... not perfectly choreographed....


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Old 11-07-2001, 08:12 AM   #11
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I think there are a number of things contributing to the speed of the TPM saber duel that aren't likely to be repeated (I hope... ).

1) No dialogue. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon don't know Maul, and he's not exactly the greatest conversationalist in the galaxy. By contrast, there's always a personal relationship between the combatants in the original trilogy. In ANH, Obi-Wan is facing down his old pupil, with ESB Vader is trying to subvert Luke, and by ROTJ Luke has accepted that Vader is daddy. Lots of interaction there; slows down the action while the characters rattle off their lines.

2) Maul's lightstaff. It's such a comically awkward weapon that you are either very fast with it or very dead. They opted for the former through most of the fight.
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Old 11-07-2001, 09:12 AM   #12
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I like Denise's ideas also remember that these are the jedi at their prime. Luke was now starting and DV was a hunk of metal.


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Old 11-10-2001, 03:03 AM   #13
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TPM wins hands down. That fight was the best thing to ever happen to star wars. As opposed to old jedi banging sabers lethargically - ANH - or some newbie up against an old guy - ESB, RotJ - this was Jedi in their prime, fighting how Jedi were supposed to. Blindingly fast, not letting anything through their defenses until the end, no knicks or cuts, if one gets through, they're dead. Other than the fact that it was chopped into bits by Anakin's yippees and Jar Jar's "comical" battlefield antics, it was arguably the best scenes in all the Star Wars movies.

If anything, I want to see something very similar to that in Ep II. None of the slow fights frought with awkward dialog.

That's all I have to say.

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Old 11-10-2001, 03:16 AM   #14
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I totally agree with JediKnight_114. The battles in the first movies were way to slow and chatty. It's like "Hello, my name is Darth Vader, and for the next 15 minutes, I'll be trying to kill you. Wanna talk through it to vainly try and make it emotional?" Now, I'm not gonna talk down about RotJ, 'cause that one was kinda cool and the chating wasn't as annoying Luke's ESB "NOOOOOOOOOO" scream or his "AHHHHHHHH" scream when he jumps off the ledge. *under her breath* "sissy" oops, did I say that out loud? Dear me, after reading about Corran Horn, no SW guy really compares.

Anyways, to sum it up before the flaming begins: TPMs fight scene was the coolest, and I hope the rest of them are that intense.



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Old 11-10-2001, 07:40 AM   #15
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Any fellow fan of Corran is welcome to her opinion, even if I do think it's an insane one.

I mean, here you have Maul with this ridiculous "weapon" that wouldn't last five seconds against competent opponents... yeah, much more realistic, alright.

Ever notice that every time Obi-Wan gets behind Maul he spins around in a full circle to make a slash rather than simply attacking normally (because this would actually finish the fight, and we can't have that)? Mm hmm.

Or how about how O-W and Q-G don't even try to outflank Maul until they're out on the catwalks?

It's not more "realistic" --just a lot faster. Biiig difference.

Oh well, though, it's just entertainment. People like what they like, can't change that, I suppose.
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Old 11-10-2001, 07:49 PM   #16
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I actually like the banter during fights. It makes it more interesting sometimes. Plus it's another form of psychological warfare.

TPM did okay without dialouge, but every fight doesn't need to be silent except for a few grunts and "NOOO!" screams.

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Old 11-10-2001, 07:54 PM   #17
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You know after watching "the One" I was thinking more about bullet time. However, again, the problems are implementing it into MP without it becoming extremely lame (ie: everybody uses it and you all just fight normal speed? Then what's the point?).

The only use I can see it being is in Single Player. And then there's the whole "Oh wow the matrix is so cool lets put bullet time into every game" bandwagon that JK2 doesn't need to jump onto necessarily.

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Old 11-10-2001, 11:08 PM   #18
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I prefer the TPM fights, they were more fast and sounded better, in the original trilogy they just kinda stood there swinging, you would get more of a fight out of a twelve year old. Granted the spins and stuff were pretty much useless.

And they didnt sound as cool
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Old 11-11-2001, 03:13 AM   #19
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when you call yourself SuperStupidStormie, you really mean it, don't you.


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Old 11-11-2001, 05:54 AM   #20
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ESB has the best fight, with ROTJ following a close second. The whole atmosphere is so much darker, something the dialogue helps to bring forward. Vader is actually trying to convert Luke, and how would he do that without talking to him? Force Convert maybe? ( Well, it works in Galactic Battlegrounds, but that's not the movies is it? )

I like Duel of the Fates to, but it seems pretty sterile. Just fighting, and yes, the tension does somewhat disappear after you see Jar-Jar jump around on the battlefield and Anakin expressing "Ooops" after "Ooops".

I can't wait for the Episode 2 lightsaber fights. The one we see a flash of in the trailer, looks very dark. Same with Obi-Wan fighting Jango Fett. Looks very good.

[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Darth Simpson ]
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Old 11-11-2001, 08:21 AM   #21
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Whats your point?
Im entitled to my own opinion, as are u
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Old 11-12-2001, 11:41 AM   #22
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I dont have a preference. They all have their place in the story telling, thats what I care about, and even TPM fits into an important place. The original trilogy saber fights explain themselves, old men and a novice Jedi, they fit in with the story line and because of that that they are more than just the random violence you come across in too many "blockbusters". Talking also adds more tension to the already personal happenings, its also how Vader try's to "turn" Luke, while he is emotional and vunerable.

TPM is fast and dialogue free because as pointed out before, it is a look at Jedi Knights in their prime, but also because Maul is not really known to either of them. They have only encounter him once before and dont know who he is.

Quote:
Ever notice that every time Obi-Wan gets behind Maul he spins around in a full circle to make a slash rather than simply attacking normally (because this would actually finish the fight, and we can't have that)? Mm hmm.
Thats may be true, but the scene is not about being realistic, yes there are flaws in the technique, but it is meant to be fast, furious, and visually impressive, to show the speed of Jedi in their prime. Before you go having dellusions of George Lucas's good choice in the original Trilogy, remember the only reason he didn't have more visually stunning saber battles (including dialouge) was because he was working with an old man, a guy in plastic armour, had a limited budget and martial arts style fighting was popularised yet.
Alec Guinness was old and had training in fencing, of course I dont hold that against him and in fact as I have said I like how it fits in well with an ageing Jedi character.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, the original trilogy fights arent all that technically impressive either. I dont think the goal of any of the fight scenes is to be "realistic", just to add some action and advance the plot. Having said that, Duel of the fates, unlike the others, is somewhat interupted by the cut aways to Jar Jar and Anakin. Non-the-less they are all quite good in their own ways.


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Old 11-12-2001, 11:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Thats may be true, but the scene is not about being realistic, yes there are flaws in the technique, but it is meant to be fast, furious, and visually impressive, to show the speed of Jedi in their prime. Before you go having dellusions of George Lucas's good choice in the original Trilogy, remember the only reason he didn't have more visually stunning saber battles (including dialouge) was because he was working with an old man, a guy in plastic armour, had a limited budget and martial arts style fighting was{n't} popularised yet.
Nobody's applauding the "technical realism" of anything but TPM, and I'm merely putting the lie to that. I'd likely be the last person you know to compliment Lucas on much of anything, trust me.
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Old 11-13-2001, 01:56 AM   #24
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yer well i liked all of teh battles, becasue each had their own benefits and adavntages.


any way, my teaher will turn my computer off in a minute because i am not supposed to be on here, so yer they were all good.


and ladyjedi what a feisty lady jedi you are!! i don't know many chicks that like to voice their opinions like that. so.... how you doin'?




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Old 11-13-2001, 01:00 PM   #25
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AT least the talking in the original films allowed the cutting between battles to work better, since there were natural pauses in the fights. WHereas in TPM (apart from the bit where they get seperated by that field) they were cutting to and from the fight in the middle of the action, which totally disrupted the rythym.

BOth were pretty good fights, but there seemed more psychology and emotion in the ESB and ROTJ ones.. if you have watched any HK martial arts movies then you have seen fights like TPM (and better) a hundred times before. I think in a few years, when both films look old, people will probably prefer the original fights.

I suppose that, "realistically", the TPM fight would be closer to the way JEdi and lightsabers are suposed to act. THe fighting in the original trilogy was much more like people fighting with heavy broadswords than light sabers... but then i have always liked those sorts of fights. (Highlander etc...)
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