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Old 01-07-2009, 06:10 PM   #1
EnderWiggin
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iTunes Completely DRM-Free

Apple announced that after six years, the iTunes Store would soon completely stop selling music encumbered by digital rights management (DRM) restrictions.

This does come with some price changes (some songs will be $0.69, some will be $0.99, and some will be $1.29).

These songs are just like iTunes Plus songs that were being sold before. Apple is charging a one-time fee to update your iTunes library ($0.30/song).

A wonderful turn of events for anyone who likes the internet.

Discuss.

_EW_



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Old 01-07-2009, 06:32 PM   #2
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woah, i *never* thought apple would do that. this is practically an invitation for p2p'ers to go crazy. i wonder what the music artists think about this?



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:39 PM   #3
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Wooo!! I may actually get into iTunes now.


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Old 01-07-2009, 06:47 PM   #4
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Finally, a publisher has common sense and wishes to free itself of rather draconian DRM. Hopefully other publishers, especially game publishers, follow Apple and CD Projekt's DRM-free policy. That itself is one of the main factors of game piracy.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
this is practically an invitation for p2p'ers to go crazy.
Disagree 100%.

I, for one, am going to buy all my music from now on. (hint: no p2p)

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Old 01-07-2009, 07:06 PM   #6
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I, for one, am going to buy all my music from now on. (hint: no p2p)
ah, but you seem to be an honorable p2per. your sentiment is closely matches mine.
but there are a *lot* of people who are going to abuse this without a second thought



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Old 01-07-2009, 07:35 PM   #7
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I already use ITunes when I just want a song or two from an album or for videos. I still buy the CD when I want the entire album. I never really worried about the DRM until recently when I noticed how many songs I have downloaded. Great news, but I wish they would have announced it before I used up my ITunes gift card I received for my birthday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
These songs are just like iTunes Plus songs that were being sold before. Apple is charging a one-time fee to update your iTunes library ($0.30/song).
60 cents for music videos.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
Finally, a publisher has common sense and wishes to free itself of rather draconian DRM.
Amazon's MP3 service has always been DRM-free, no?

@topic: I'm glad to hear that Apple is getting rid of the DRM stuff, but I am even happier to see that one of the music services is finally offering competitive pricing. Not that a dollar a song was bad, when you consider how much overhead the companies are avoiding by going digital, it still feels like I'm being raped.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
woah, i *never* thought apple would do that. this is practically an invitation for p2p'ers to go crazy. i wonder what the music artists think about this?
people who are going to pirate music will pirate music, surprisingly enough, itunes isn't the only source of music on the internet and drm is far from being foolproof.

and the artists probably won't be affected since they're probably gonna be ****ed by the industry just the same.




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Old 01-07-2009, 08:38 PM   #10
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Great news!

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Old 01-07-2009, 09:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Amazon's MP3 service has always been DRM-free, no?
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142 View Post
and the artists probably won't be affected since they're probably gonna be ****ed by the industry just the same.
More true.

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Old 01-08-2009, 12:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Amazon's MP3 service has always been DRM-free, no?
Except amazon does not allow you to redownload songs. You buy it once, you lose it(as data often is), you gotta buy it again.


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Old 01-08-2009, 12:09 AM   #13
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Am I the only person who archives?
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Am I the only person who archives?
No. I have a back up to my back up.

Just got my email back from iTunes to upgrade to iTunes Plus. Pretty painless, except for $75.00 price tag and the amount of time it is taking to download. I guess it could be worse, instead of 180 songs/videos it could be updating all 4640 songs/videos.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
people who are going to pirate music will pirate music, surprisingly enough, itunes isn't the only source of music on the internet and drm is far from being foolproof.
i know.
what i thought was a situation where some guy gets high quality music with all the gracenote info from itunes. then his buddies come along for a lan party and everyone grabs his high quality itunes music.
thing is, with p2p, you're relying on other people's ripped music. after a while of dloading music, you'll end up with one heck of a messed up library. (track info, etc)
with this development, pirates can get a nice clean library with high quality songs.
example: if i was a total pirate, id only pirate my music from itunes from now on.
i personally hate having a messed up library and this beats having to buy TuneUp to have one.
so itunes and the music artists get ripped off even more. see where im coming from?



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:15 PM   #16
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Uhm... you do know that iTunes lets you organise your library quite easily, right? Without 'TuneUp'. I don't see what you mean by "messed up library". So no, I personally have no idea where you're coming from.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Uhm... you do know that iTunes lets you organise your library quite easily, right? Without 'TuneUp'. I don't see what you mean by "messed up library". So no, I personally have no idea where you're coming from.
i said if i was a pirate. the messed up libraries happen when you get all your music from p2p. not when you use itunes.



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Old 01-08-2009, 07:33 PM   #18
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... you clearly have no idea how to use iTunes, by the looks of it....my library is meticulously organised, and is in no way "messed up". It's not like iTunes only lets you edit tracks that you buy from the Store. It lets you create ID3 tags and such for any track you want.

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Old 01-09-2009, 12:58 AM   #19
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... you clearly have no idea how to use iTunes, by the looks of it. I myself use P2P for all my music, ... And my library is meticulously organised, and is in no way "messed up". It's not like iTunes only lets you edit tracks that you buy from the Store. It lets you create ID3 tags and such for any track you want.
yes, you have to go edit the song info by yourself, which can be extremely tedious when you have thousands of songs that havnt been organized.
while when you buy itunes music, all the track info is already there.



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.

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Old 01-09-2009, 06:48 PM   #20
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Took them long enough, like it's been said Amazon as well as Rhapsody have been offering DRM-free music for quite a while now. Don't really like how I have to pay to get the DRM removed from the songs I have bought from iTunes when they should have been DRM-free all along.


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Old 01-10-2009, 12:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
you also clearly have no idea... i get id3 tags and cover art on the rare occasions i smurf things.
getting id3 tags is not he problem. its the orderliness of the contents of the tags. you might class this song's genre as "orchestral", while some uncultured nut whose computer you got the song off may put the genre as "crap".

so, what program do you use that nullifies this issue?



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.

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Old 01-10-2009, 12:49 AM   #22
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... iTunes? Or, heaven forbid, right click on the file and look under "Properties". Works real well.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:37 AM   #23
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this isn't some crazy new fangled technology or people being willing to go through their music adding tags you just have no idea what you're talking about

Quote:
Originally Posted by skype
[2:21:14 AM] Sabre says: i haven't seen messed up music tags since like 2000



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Old 01-10-2009, 03:11 AM   #24
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Quote:
this isn't some crazy new fangled technology or people being willing to go through their music adding tags you just have no idea what you're talking about
i believe some context is in order:
i'm meaning mostly genre tags. the titles and stuff are usually fine.
another example:
here is a cd track with info from wmp (shown in iTunes):

here is the same song with the info taken this time from gracenote (iTunes):


ive used wmp's and itune's respective track info finders without any tag modification from me.

do you see the difference?
my point is, i may take that track from a guy who ripped the cd using wmp, and some other ones from a guy who ripped using itunes, and then the rest from a guy who put the tags in himself. i end up with a somewhat disorganized cd in my library.



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:22 AM   #25
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i know what id3 tags are and so does sabre and your inability to organize your music doesn't mean everyone else has the same problem.



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Old 01-10-2009, 05:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
i know what id3 tags are and so does sabre
two questions: (not sarcastic)
1. did i say you didnt know what Id3 tags are? where did you even get that anyway?
2. where in my above post did you see the word 'sabre' or anything referring to him or his post?



Quote:
your inability to organize your music doesn't mean everyone else has the same problem.
aaaand you still cant see my point.

its not the condition of my library, the point is the easiness of having a pirated library organized to the largest music database on earth because it is now even easier to steal such music because apple has thrown out drm on itunes.



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Old 01-10-2009, 09:49 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
its not the condition of my library, the point is the easiness of having a pirated library organized to the largest music database on earth because it is now even easier to steal such music because apple has thrown out drm on itunes.
Apparently some people know how to organize music without relying on itunes.

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Old 01-10-2009, 03:23 PM   #28
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And @satanjesuswhatever - you're the one trying to prove a completely sophistic point.

Oh, and right-click isn't 'tedious.' kthx.

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Old 01-10-2009, 03:38 PM   #29
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This can only mean easier transitions to new operating software for individuals who don't pirate their music, the quality of pirated music as compared to legally purchased music aside. It's essentially about being less of a hassle for those that plan to upgrade their computer software in the near, or even distant, future. I will say that the "one-time charge" is a soulless marketing ploy to make money off of something that should have been put in place from the very beginning, but, then again, Apple isn't exactly known for being a generous, benevolent business.

At any rate, I think this is a good thing. Ending up with a faulty music library is due to apathy in lieu of editing your song information when you get the song.



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Old 01-12-2009, 06:08 AM   #30
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I'm very glad you brought this up Edner. This does partially affect me since I do some occasional DJing.

Not sure how this might affect the professional DJs. Considering most of what my father and I have is bought or professionally custom made, or a periodical subscription (CDs bought and shipped by mail)...well, that kills 2 or 3 birds with one stone. Plus little to worry about.

While I have some of the same problems j.i.g.o.s mentioned...iTunes (when it's on a mac) actually has been a tremendous help to me for neatening up. (On a PC, forget about it, microsoft hates apple and is making iTunes all ****'erd up for vista).

I would rather do it honorably where $$$ and making a living is involved.
Emergency requests? ....
I do imagine, though, if it were all going to be digital and pay-per download, paying or by some legit means of free would be best.

------
Have a lotta hot? Too lazy to edit it all at once? I'd say archive it and then...get a new hard drive. Then change it all in private at your leisure.
(No Achillies, you are not the only one to archive--very smart of you. Yours truly has done some DJing and in this age archiving is more necessity than ever, now. Regardless of situation)

Still it begs the question. How much editing time is actually worth it to avoid small costs? I guess this is asking to equate time used for money saved. Where it is only leisure, I suppose it is totally worth it. Where you must turn up a profit...not a good idea for the majority of it to be freebie downloads. Not that clients care--if you have it they're happy...no I'm talking about the sharks in suits who watch out for this stuff.

If one really likes it and its artist...pay for it.


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Old 01-12-2009, 10:41 PM   #31
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Tags are tags, you can edit them in like two seconds. And at least 90% of the music I download is well-labelled on its tags. And if not, my music player does a good job of autotagging based on filename. At most the genre tags are different, but that's because everybody has a different idea of genres. I tried to organize my collection by genre once but it was too difficult to choose one genre for many songs, so I just decided to let those genre fields be. >:[



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Old 01-14-2009, 02:59 AM   #32
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So then...what? I'm coming from a semi professional point of view with counterparts fully professional..... All other things (paying the honorable way, cds, etc. etc.) aside...I'm just trying to figure out how does this significantly affect me? What significant changes will I be seeing in the future? Or is this, respectively, irrelevant?

I thought less security measures lead to piracy since there is nothing stopping them, but obviously one counter measure just leads to another measure to avoid paying $$$.

I don't go in intending to defrauding anybody. Try to be on top of things so there is no surprise or emergency.

Formats will have to change from CD behemoth tech (though nothing compared to vacuum tube amps still in use even today) to computerized/mp3player/digital/port'a'drive so I imagine I'll have to do more pay>download
(...and then put into hard copy for archive in case something gets botched.)


What does this basically do for guys like my father, me, and my buddies? Sounds like $$$ are going up and security going down.

(Security which apparently is now just $ hassle vs tag hassle, instead of effective)

'Course no matter how neat it all is, there eventually is a necessity for organizing ang tagging anyway for some number of it.


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Old 01-14-2009, 04:28 AM   #33
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thinking of this again, im coming to the conclusion that the doctor was right:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor
... you clearly have no idea how to use iTunes, by the looks of it
now then, i mostly use windows media player, because im on vista and itunes is incredibly slow on it. i use itunes to sync the music to my ipods.

wmp has a 'find album info' function. you right click a song, and go 'find album info'. it searches for the song's info based on the title, and you choose the best match.
afaik, itunes doesnt have this kind of feature. it gets the song info from gracenote when you rip a cd, but it doesnt if you import already ripped music. (i rip with wmp)
afaik, the only way to get the correct info for a song like that is to right click>get info> edit tags manually.

sure, editing tags manually would be fast, but its not the editing itself thats the problem. you have to hop on the net, go and find all the tag info yourself, then put it in. and if you have many songs you want to have perfect tag info for, your'e nuts if you dont think thats tedious.
(i mean, how long would that take for like, 50 songs?

so i have a question: does itunes have an auto info finder feature like wmp?
because i cant find it. 'get info' doesnt actually let you 'get the info'. (it shouldnt be called 'get info', but just 'info'.)

if someone could tell me if there is a feature like this is there in itunes, my point would be properly defeated. (which is what should have been done, rather than make me out as an idiot)
the point can be attributed as my mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
At most the genre tags are different, but that's because everybody has a different idea of genres. I tried to organize my collection by genre once but it was too difficult to choose one genre for many songs, so I just decided to let those genre fields be.
and that is one of the major things i want to resolve. because messed up genre tags defeat the purpose of 'browse by genre' features on music players and ipods. the solution would be to rely on one standard of genre classification - gracenote. (its also the solution for all other disorganized tag info) and to do that, youd have to get the info from them, and that comes around to my problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
Anyways, this is 2008.
um, its 2009, but its ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
Like I said before, I don't think I've encountered messed up tags since 2000.
er... you dont consider disorganized genre tags as tags?



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.

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Old 01-14-2009, 05:24 AM   #34
Darth Avlectus
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Use the safari browser, yo. It is apple based.

Itunes probably does somehow, someway. Haven't cared enough to try to find it though. I don't really trust windows' apps due to backdoors in the programs hacker buddies of mine have found through the years. Used to use sonicsound, sonicdisc, or rhapsody or something like that which came along with the sony vaio stuff in 2003. There are any number of things like that.

I swear as an ultimate middle finger to microsoft, though, I will defeat the hostility harbored within my PC!!!

In my experience, if there are no tags it is blank or has a bunch of weird characters.Some are unchangable, too. Probably ones to be gotten rid of come to think of it.


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Old 01-14-2009, 05:59 AM   #35
EnderWiggin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
now then, i mostly use windows media player, because im on vista and itunes is incredibly slow on it. i use itunes to sync the music to my ipods.
There's your problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satanjesuswhatever
wmp has a 'find album info' function. you right click a song, and go 'find album info'. it searches for the song's info based on the title, and you choose the best match.
afaik, itunes doesnt have this kind of feature. it gets the song info from gracenote when you rip a cd, but it doesnt if you import already ripped music. (i rip with wmp)
Actually, I think if you click Advanced>Get CD Track Names, it does just what you're thinking of. Of course, I can't be sure, because I just rip the music into iTunes like a normal person, so it does it automatically. I've only had to use that button like once and now I don't remember how it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ownjesusplease
afaik, the only way to get the correct info for a song like that is to right click>get info> edit tags manually.
See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusawejfoijfsatan
so i have a question: does itunes have an auto info finder feature like wmp?
because i cant find it. 'get info' doesnt actually let you 'get the info'. (it shouldnt be called 'get info', but just 'info'.)
See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusatan
if someone could tell me if there is a feature like this is there in itunes, my point would be properly defeated. (which is what should have been done, rather than make me out as an idiot)
the point can be attributed as my mistake.
You pretty much said the same thing for four paragraphs. See above. Again.

And to be honest, if you couldn't click the advanced button, No one deserves to be treated rudely, kthx. --Jae There is an iTunes Help menu, tbh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by you
er... you dont consider disorganized genre tags as tags?
You can't really organize them all that well, since multiple songs could be perceived as multiple genres, albums are not always genre-uniform and bands change genres from album to album (sometimes.)

So I think he just doesn't beat himself up over it.

_EW_



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Yes, I hate you.

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Last edited by Jae Onasi; 04-15-2009 at 10:00 AM. Reason: edited out flamey stuff
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:47 AM   #36
Sabretooth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
sure, editing tags manually would be fast, but its not the editing itself thats the problem. you have to hop on the net, go and find all the tag info yourself, then put it in. and if you have many songs you want to have perfect tag info for, your'e nuts if you dont think thats tedious.
(i mean, how long would that take for like, 50 songs?
Well, if I care enough for my music to look it up by tags and nitty-gritty info like year of release, composer, lyricist and whatnot, I'd care enough to go on the Internet, tag it and save it once and for all. If you can't be bothered with looking up artist info and feeding it yourself, the question arises as to why you'd want all that in your IDv3 tags anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
and that is one of the major things i want to resolve. because messed up genre tags defeat the purpose of 'browse by genre' features on music players and ipods. the solution would be to rely on one standard of genre classification - gracenote. (its also the solution for all other disorganized tag info) and to do that, youd have to get the info from them, and that comes around to my problem.
Well that statement I made was kinda fuzzy but refer to good man Wiggins' response, he got it right. There are many songs that don't fit into a single genre. That is why Last.fm doesn't use genres, but a tag system that is infinitely more flexible.

One song in my collection for example, can be classified as Black Metal, Ambient Black Metal, Atmospheric Black Metal, Post-Black, Avant-Garde Metal, Avant-Garde Black Metal, Progressive Black Metal and probably even something else. And Wintersun's music defies all genres, the closest possible would be describing it as "Epic Technical Melodic Death Metal" and even that feels vastly inappropriate to the music. What's more, Wintersun's founder denies his music being Melodic Death Metal and goes on to invent what he calls "Epic Technical Majestic Melodic Metal".

If you ask me, the whole "genre" system is starting to fail with artists experimenting wildly in different music forms. I don't sort my music by genre in any case, partly because of the reason stated above and partly because I don't see the point. I know which artist plays what sort of music, which is why they are in my collection, duh.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
um, its 2009, but its ok.
>.>
<.<

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
er... you dont consider disorganized genre tags as tags?
Here I'd like to get clarified what "disorganized genre tags" are you exactly referring to. Incorrect genre labellings? Grammatical errors? No labels?



Last edited by Jae Onasi; 04-15-2009 at 10:01 AM. Reason: edited quote
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:22 PM   #37
Det. Bart Lasiter
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Use the safari browser, yo. It is apple based.
yes use safari on windows so you can have a mediocre browser on a platform it wasn't designed to run on but oh well it's apple so that automatically means it's secure

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Itunes probably does somehow, someway. Haven't cared enough to try to find it though. I don't really trust windows' apps due to backdoors in the programs hacker buddies of mine have found through the years. Used to use sonicsound, sonicdisc, or rhapsody or something like that which came along with the sony vaio stuff in 2003. There are any number of things like that.
heh



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Old 01-14-2009, 11:05 PM   #38
Darth Avlectus
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Originally Posted by jmac7142 View Post
yes use safari on windows so you can have a mediocre browser on a platform it wasn't designed to run on but oh well it's apple so that automatically means it's secure
Hey, if you want to use microsoft internet explorer, be my guest JMAC.
If you have one better, out with it. Otherwise we just disagree and this would be moot.

I know safari well enough that it ignores lots that microsoft doesn't. If that means anything about anything. Save for a few finicky problems on youtube it does just fine.

Admittedly I'm still on it for firefox and I'm still deciding whether I like chrome or not. Just anything *other* than Microsoft internet explorer. You disagree, that's not my problem.


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Old 01-14-2009, 11:15 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Hey, if you want to use microsoft internet explorer, be my guest JMAC.
If you have one better, out with it. Otherwise we just disagree and this would be moot.
Lol.
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:38 AM   #40
JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
Actually, I think if you click Advanced>Get CD Track Names, it does just what you're thinking of. Of course, I can't be sure, because I just rip the music into iTunes like a normal person, so it does it automatically. I've only had to use that button like once and now I don't remember how it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin
There is an iTunes Help menu, tbh.
of course ive tried it before. itll only work if you ripped the music using itunes.
Quote:
You pretty much said the same thing for four paragraphs. See above. Again.
and it was originally one paragraph. i just separated it to make it easier to be read.
Quote:
Oh. In that case, I agree with your argument
notice there was no hostility in my statement.
have a nice day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
One song in my collection for example, can be classified as Black Metal, Ambient Black Metal, Atmospheric Black Metal, Post-Black, Avant-Garde Metal, Avant-Garde Black Metal, Progressive Black Metal and probably even something else. And Wintersun's music defies all genres, the closest possible would be describing it as "Epic Technical Melodic Death Metal" and even that feels vastly inappropriate to the music. What's more, Wintersun's founder denies his music being Melodic Death Metal and goes on to invent what he calls "Epic Technical Majestic Melodic Metal".

If you ask me, the whole "genre" system is starting to fail with artists experimenting wildly in different music forms. I don't sort my music by genre in any case, partly because of the reason stated above and partly because I don't see the point. I know which artist plays what sort of music, which is why they are in my collection, duh.
point taken
Quote:
>.>
<.<
as i said to enderwiggin, no hostility intended. just pointing it out, thats all.
Quote:
Here I'd like to get clarified what "disorganized genre tags" are you exactly referring to. Incorrect genre labellings? Grammatical errors? No labels?
in my experience i have encountered all of those. but i mostly mean incorrect genre labellings and no labels.

so heres the thing:
im contemplating getting tuneup: a program that completely cleans your itunes library using gracenote. check it out. it seems to be sweet slavation for just my problem. now, one of the reasons i asked my question is because im wondering if itunes has this functionality built in, and tuneup is just a rip off for technically inept people who dont know that itunes has this very feature built right in. this may surprise you, but im not technically inept. i just asked here because maybe, just maybe im missing this feature on itunes. (like when you look for something, you just cant find it, but its right in front of you).

now if tuneup (and other programs that do the same thing) is actually useful, if it's function is actually solving a valid problem,the programs are not a useless ripoff, and the praises hundreds (thousands-?) of people all over the world are singing about it are deserved, then my second argument still stands and i come to this conclusion: "itunes does not have a comprehensive autotagging functionality for non itunes ripped/bought music and i am not an idiot for wanting that function in itunes. "



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it is not a cry of joy.

Last edited by Jae Onasi; 04-15-2009 at 10:05 AM. Reason: deleted flamey quote and response to deleted quote
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