lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Marriage; Pointless or Worthwhile?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 03-01-2009, 06:24 PM   #1
jonathan7
Exiled Jedi...
 
jonathan7's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 3,676
Contest winner - Modding LFN Staff Member Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Marriage; Pointless or Worthwhile?

Quote:
AdavardesA wonderful philosophy, truly, but you're assuming I'm never positive about anything. I do enjoy some optimistic pleasures in life, but, I'm sorry, marriage is just not one of those things to inspire optimistic pleasure in me, because I have personal experiences in observance of relationships ending because of marriage. Typically, the two individuals have been loving and committed as they can be, but it doesn't matter. Marriage ends relationships, and the only relationships you hear about lasting, save for a few exceptions, are between people that just learned how to put up with one another.

Yeah, that sounds like some really worthwhile ****. Tell me where I can sign up, Mr. Sunshine.
My own saw on advice; "Good advice is a statement of fact or a question that causes a person to answer their own problem. Bad advice is giving your opinion which is irrelevant as we all have our own paths to take"

Most of the marriages I know, have been long and successful, and of my peers are happy. Should I infer anything from that, or look at wider statistics?

If two people love each other and want to get married, I fail to see why that would doom them to failure.



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
jonathan7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 06:35 PM   #2
EnderWiggin
Sine Amore Nihil Est Vita
 
EnderWiggin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,395
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
My own saw on advice; "Good advice is a statement of fact or a question that causes a person to answer their own problem. Bad advice is giving your opinion which is irrelevant as we all have our own paths to take"

Most of the marriages I know, have been long and successful, and of my peers are happy. Should I infer anything from that, or look at wider statistics?

If two people love each other and want to get married, I fail to see why that would doom them to failure.

I agree. Just because the statistics suck doesn't mean that I think that marriage is the end of a relationship. Especially because I'm religious.

_EW_



Hello, Pot? This is Kettle. You're black. ~ Prime

Yes, I hate you.

J7 - thanks for accepting me as part of the 'family.'
EnderWiggin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 06:36 PM   #3
Adavardes
Junior Member
 
Adavardes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 476
1. How old are your "peers", and how long have the marriages you know of been lasting?

2. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_14.pdf

The statistics on divorce rates are the testament in themselves. I'm not buying that the majority of married couples are happy go lucky for very long. And you have to factor in the longevity of the marriage, as the longer time goes by, the better chance of divorce. It's pointless, and ultimately turns something that should just be about love and commitment into a legal obligation that you can't get out of. Yep. Totally makes sense.



It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built.
Adavardes is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 06:41 PM   #4
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Marriage is perfectly fine with me, however, there are people who should most certainly not get hitched. By that, I mean, the domestic violence and child abuse that may develop from a rushed or ill-planned marriage. Hence why I still believe that a psychological and mental evaluation must be mandatory in order to obtain a marriage license.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 06:46 PM   #5
jonathan7
Exiled Jedi...
 
jonathan7's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 3,676
Contest winner - Modding LFN Staff Member Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
I agree. Just because the statistics suck doesn't mean that I think that marriage is the end of a relationship. Especially because I'm religious.

_EW_
Indeedy. Lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics, as I will shortly show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
1. How old are your "peers", and how long have the marriages you know of been lasting?
James and Hannah; married at 18, been happily married for the last 7 years.

Ed and Charli, married at 23, been married 5 years

Tom and Becca, Married at 21, happily married 3 years etc etc

I could then say, my mum and dad, 28 years and going, family friends Jo and Alistair 31 years and going, my Aunt and Uncle 26 years and going, really I could go on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
2. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr56/nvsr56_14.pdf

The statistics on divorce rates are the testament in themselves. I'm not buying that the majority of married couples are happy go lucky for very long. And you have to factor in the longevity of the marriage, as the longer time goes by, the better chance of divorce. It's pointless, and ultimately turns something that should just be about love and commitment into a legal obligation that you can't get out of. Yep. Totally makes sense.
These are misleading for the following reason, where are the statistics for Boyfriend/Girlfriend (or same-sex) breakups?

There won't be any to compare against, so you can't actually place an inference into the effect marriage has on relationship success.

Furthermore, I'd have to disagree, for several reasons. Firstly, just because something doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to others. I'm not going to tell you, that you should or shouldn't get married, so why does it matter what others do?

I would assert in statistics, that if Boyfriend - Girlfriend relationships will be more frequent and also have a higher statistical likely hood of ending, in a shorter period of time.



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
jonathan7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 07:18 PM   #6
Pho3nix
#rekt
 
Pho3nix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nordic Europe
Posts: 3,374
Forum Veteran 
This is an interesting topic since we were just discussing marriage the other day with my friends, and a day later one of them found out his parents might get a divorce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post

If two people love each other and want to get married, I fail to see why that would doom them to failure.
I don't know about the statistics, but in my cynical world view life happens, people drift away, you meet someone new who's fresh and exciting, feelings come and go -- and before you know it someone ends up cheating or hurt.

For me there is no such thing as "happily ever after" since we evolve throughout our lives and I honestly believe that most* are not content with having just one partner for the rest of their life.

Pho3nix is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 07:28 PM   #7
EnderWiggin
Sine Amore Nihil Est Vita
 
EnderWiggin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,395
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes
Yeah, that sounds like some really worthwhile ****. Tell me where I can sign up, Mr. Sunshine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes
Yep. Totally makes sense.
I think you need to stop being so rude to J7 - he's really done nothing flamebait worthy, so stop attacking him.

Also, your argument is specious. You can't use statistics to back up your argument when your argument is "All marriages are unhappy."

Bias is a bad thing.

That is all.

_EW_



Hello, Pot? This is Kettle. You're black. ~ Prime

Yes, I hate you.

J7 - thanks for accepting me as part of the 'family.'
EnderWiggin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 07:31 PM   #8
jonathan7
Exiled Jedi...
 
jonathan7's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 3,676
Contest winner - Modding LFN Staff Member Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pho3nix View Post
I don't know about the statistics, but in my cynical world view life happens, people drift away, you meet someone new who's fresh and exciting, feelings come and go -- and before you know it someone ends up cheating or hurt.

For me there is no such thing as "happily ever after" since we evolve throughout our lives and I honestly believe that most* are not content with having just one partner for the rest of their life.
I would have to argue that this is because of a wrong view of love.

How do you know if someone loves you? Is it when you are easy to love, and the feelings come easily? Or is it when your an absolute pain in the bum, and the feelings aren't there but they come through for you?

J7's selected quotes on love

Quote:
"Love is not affectionate feeling, but a steady wish for the loved person's ultimate good as far as it can be obtained." -- C.S. Lewis (Answers to Questions on Christianity)

"Love may forgive all infirmities and love still in spite of them: but Love cannot cease to will their removal." - C.S. Lewis - The Problem of Pain

“Love is patient; love is kind
and envies no one.
Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude;
never selfish, not quick to take offense.
There is nothing love cannot face;
there is no limit to its faith,
its hope, and endurance.
In a word, there are three things
that last forever: faith, hope, and love;
but the greatest of them all is love.”
- 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
So is love a feeling, or an action? I think it's a bit of both, but it is proven in the action. In regards marriage, how to marriages do sour? I would have to argue by not doing the above.



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
jonathan7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 07:54 PM   #9
Darth333
Administraterror
 
Darth333's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In my secret dungeon...
Posts: 8,295
To me it's pointless unless you want the legal consequences that come with marriage in your jurisdiction or if you feel that your religion absolutely mandates it (officially I'm Roman catholic but I couldn't care less about the outdated "rules"...I should probably be excommunicated by now lol...to me the important message of Christ is love, not the paperwork ). Anyway, if only religious marriage would not necessarily equal civil marriage under the law (at least where I live)...

If I love someone, I don't need marriage to show it, officialize it or whatever but I can understand that it can be important to some people. As for the legal aspects of common life, I prefer a custom contract which would be more adapted to the couples' situation. (And screw the fancy white dress! I'm probably the least romantic girl in the world )

Quote:
J7's selected quotes on love :xp
I don't think marriage is a requirement to make that applicable. Love != marriage to me (but not incompatible of course ). Marriage is not necessary for a successful and long-lasting relationship.
Darth333 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 08:09 PM   #10
GeneralPloKoon
Just a Time Traveller
 
GeneralPloKoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,532
Current Game: Borderlands (PS3)
I think Marriage is very worthwhile as long as its with the right person.
GeneralPloKoon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 09:19 PM   #11
Q
The one who knocks
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ABQ
Posts: 6,643
Current Game: Mowing down neos with my M60
LF Jester Forum Veteran Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
How do you know if someone loves you? Is it when you are easy to love, and the feelings come easily? Or is it when your an absolute pain in the bum, and the feelings aren't there but they come through for you?
Well, that's my test of any relationship. They always fail it.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
Q is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 09:32 PM   #12
Rev7
I'm a Mage
 
Rev7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,208
Current Game: CoD 5 WaW; Skate 2
Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralPloKoon View Post
I think Marriage is very worthwhile as long as its with the right person.
I agree.

My parents have been married for 30 years now....so I have noticed many positive things about marriage...

Rev7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-01-2009, 09:53 PM   #13
Web Rider
Senior Member
 
Web Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: here
Posts: 1,768
I would argue the problem with statistics is that they count the number of marriages and divorces. They don't count how many of those are by the same person, my father's cousin has been married 9 times, it could be up to 10 now.

I know many successful marriages, far more than I know failed marriages, and we're talking 10-year+ marriages, not day-old ones. Could they fail? Sure, but a 10 year marriage is IMO, pretty successful, and people change over time.

I would say that marriage is a good thing most of the time.


"So if you go to Washington, it's buildings clean and nice. Bring a pack of matches...and we'll burn the White House twice!"

"Nobody's talking about extermination. No one ever does. They just do it." - Magneto

"Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice, unless you get a good percentage of her price."
Web Rider is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 12:56 AM   #14
mur'phon
Whale eating vegetarian
 
mur'phon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southier than thou
Posts: 1,537
Forum Veteran 
@Jonathan: they did a survey in Norway some time ago concerning the likehood of breaking up, I'll see if I can find it, but IIRC the diference was only about 2-3%. Of course, this is in a country were relatively (they still make up a majority) few people marry, so it might not apply elsewere.

Myself, I think that since income is as inequall as it is, marriage makes a lot of sence if only to give your love the rights she deserve. Of course, you could just write a contract, but many seems to prefer mariage for some reason. Yes, they often fail, but so what? would it be better if they broke up without marrying?

Last edited by mur'phon; 03-02-2009 at 02:47 AM.
mur'phon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 01:28 AM   #15
Web Rider
Senior Member
 
Web Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: here
Posts: 1,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by mur'phon View Post
Myself, I think that as income is as inequall as it is, marriage makes a lot of sence if only to give your love the rights she deserve. Of course, you could just write a contract, but many seems to prefer mariage for some reason. Yes, they often fail, but so what? would it be better if they broke up without marrying?
I'd get upset at the sexism if I wasn't so tired. My mom is by and far the breadwinner in our family. The same is true for 2 of my aunts and their families.


"So if you go to Washington, it's buildings clean and nice. Bring a pack of matches...and we'll burn the White House twice!"

"Nobody's talking about extermination. No one ever does. They just do it." - Magneto

"Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice, unless you get a good percentage of her price."
Web Rider is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 02:13 AM   #16
Astor
It's Thornhill!
 
Astor's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 3,632
Current Game: The Old Republic
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran Helpful! 
It's plainly obvious that marriage is not everyone's cup of tea. That's fine - it's their choice not to get married after all, but I do think that marriage, while not necessary for a strong, loving relationship, is for many people a confirmation of such a relationship.

I know many people who married for love, and are still together at least a decade afterwards.






Astor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 02:46 AM   #17
mur'phon
Whale eating vegetarian
 
mur'phon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southier than thou
Posts: 1,537
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
I'd get upset at the sexism if I wasn't so tired. My mom is by and far the breadwinner in our family. The same is true for 2 of my aunts and their families.
Yet numbers don't lie, and while I don't like them, they are there, so you might as well make the best of the situation while you try to change it.
mur'phon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 03:18 AM   #18
Bee Hoon
ngom ngom ngom
 
Bee Hoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,269
Forum Veteran Veteran Fan Fic Author LFN Staff Member Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D333
officially I'm Roman catholic but I couldn't care less about the outdated "rules"...
Ditto

I have to say I'm old-fashioned when it comes to such things- I do want to get married, if only because I want to prance around in a flouncy white dress it's just a way for the couple to show each other that they are srs bsns about spending their lives with each other. I don't think that the statistics should affect a person's decision as to whether or not they want to get married, as no two relationships are the same, and in the end it's between them.



The sun goes down and the sky reddens, pain grows sharp.
light dwindles. Then is evening
when jasmine flowers open, the deluded say.
But evening is the great brightening dawn
when crested cocks crow all through the tall city
and evening is the whole day
for those without their lovers

-Kuruntokai 234, translated by A.K. Ramanujan

[Fic] Shreds of a Dying Belief
Bee Hoon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 03:25 AM   #19
Sabretooth
鬼龍院皐月
 
Sabretooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 9,365
I will marry if I really hate someone.

/ayn rand
//but i don't think of you


Sabretooth is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 02:46 PM   #20
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,052
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7
Marriage; Pointless or Worthwhile?
Yes.

If you want a more specific answer, I’m going to need more specific fact about the couple. Depending on the people involved then marriage may be pointless or it could be worthwhile.

I’m no expert as I’ve never even been engaged, I’ve been close a few times. After reading this thread last night I could not think of a reply, so I turned up Bon Jovi’s “Living in Sin” and pulled out an engagement ring I purchase 20 years ago. (I wonder how much it is worth)
mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 03:53 PM   #21
mur'phon
Whale eating vegetarian
 
mur'phon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southier than thou
Posts: 1,537
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
I wonder how much it is worth
Depends on wether you get paid for parting with it
mur'phon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 04:09 PM   #22
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,052
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mur'phon View Post
Depends on wether you get paid for parting with it
Well I know it would be worth a butt kicking if I tried to give it to another woman and she found out it was purchase for someone else.

I'm not great at understanding most women, but it does not take great understanding to figure that one out.
mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 06:26 PM   #23
Darth_Yuthura
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vienna
Posts: 1,585
Current Game: KOTOR III
Weddings are just not as important as they used to be. Given that we are in a recession and that the divorce rate is so high, it makes more sense for a small-scale celebration... at least one that doesn't go into the thousands of dollars into the cake alone.

My own sister is engaged, but there is not likely going to be much of an event other than maybe a party with direct families.

My answer is that marriage is definitely worthwhile so long as the events and financial obligations are not made in excess. The gains and the recognition of being married to another are worth whatever else comes with it.
Darth_Yuthura is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 06:54 PM   #24
Miltiades
Death... by Exile
 
Miltiades's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bruges, Belgium
Posts: 2,832
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran Folder extraordinaire 
I don't see why a marriage would cause problems, on the other hand, I don't know why it'd be necessary. In my opinion, if two people love each other, they don't need to prove it with marriage.


PSN id: BE_Miltiades

Miltiades is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 06:58 PM   #25
Darth_Yuthura
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vienna
Posts: 1,585
Current Game: KOTOR III
Marriage does have certain attributes, such as spousal confidentiality and financial incentives. It's not required or even a good reason to get married, but there are certain benefits in the legal system that come with it.
Darth_Yuthura is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 07:02 PM   #26
Samnmax221
I never Kipled
 
Samnmax221's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: My hovercraft is full of eels
Posts: 5,784
Current Game: Sex with women
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
I don't see Marriage as valuable outside of the legal standpoint. I would however like to find someone to be monogamous with at some point, my own ideas about the matter are complicated.
Samnmax221 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 07:16 PM   #27
Ray Jones
[armleglegarmhead]
 
Ray Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: digital
Posts: 8,256
10 year veteran! LF Jester Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Pointless or worthwhile as non-marriage relationships. Considering the statistic is worthless, because it's about successful and failed marriages, which is easy to count since there's always some paper about it. It's hard to count successful and failed non-marriage relationships, since there's no documentation about it.

So, at the end of the day, what D3 said. ;~~~


Ray Jones is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-02-2009, 07:51 PM   #28
Web Rider
Senior Member
 
Web Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: here
Posts: 1,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by mur'phon View Post
Yet numbers don't lie, and while I don't like them, they are there, so you might as well make the best of the situation while you try to change it.
Yeah, maybe my mom doesn't make as much as a male coworker, but I gotta say, 70k vs 75k, not a lot of difference at this point.

My point was that you shouldn't marry women with the assumption that you're going to "protect" them and "provide" for them. If that's the way both you and your wife want to be, go right ahead. But marrying women because they make less is one of those prime reasons that women are paid less. Companies figure that since a woman has the man earning money, they don't need to pay them as much.

So by marrying them to "provide" for them, you're making the situation worse.

Not to mention you're assuming that just because you're a man, you're going to make more than her. You may make more than a woman who is in your same profession, but that doesn't guarantee you're top your wife. My aunt makes 250K+ a year. That's hard to top with ANY profession.


"So if you go to Washington, it's buildings clean and nice. Bring a pack of matches...and we'll burn the White House twice!"

"Nobody's talking about extermination. No one ever does. They just do it." - Magneto

"Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice, unless you get a good percentage of her price."
Web Rider is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2009, 03:22 AM   #29
Phantom Knight
BAANAAANAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
 
Phantom Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: A figment of your imagination
Posts: 2,228
Current Game: Mass Effect
Hot Topic Starter 
In my most deepest, honest opinion: dont do it.

Some couples are just better off not getting married. My parents are divorced, and now they are in a relationship with someone else. Only this time: they dont intend on getting married... again.

I for one dont believe in it: given from what I have been through with my parents. I learned from their mistake, and others as well. I'm sure you love your girlfriend, and you want whats best for her. But consider this:
Is it really quite necesary to throw a huge freakin' party to announce to the world that you're crazily in love with someone? And even after the marriage: things WILL get tough between the two of you. I'm sure you dont want that for your girlfriend.

Now that i've said my piece, I'll shut up now -.-
Phantom Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2009, 04:06 AM   #30
True_Avery
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,002
This thread has made it blatantly obvious that this is a Star Wars forum. So blatantly obvious.

Party? Extravagance? Glam?

Some of you are obviously missing the point if the party is the first thing to comes to mind. You can get married for cheap in someones backyard, or even just sign the papers and leave it at that.

No, there are 2 reasons you get married:

1) It is sort of a cultural symbol of union. You are respected more as a couple for being married if you actually love each other.

2) The bling. The serious political bling that marriage offers.

Some of you may not realize this, but being married gives you a ton of toys. Like joint custody of children. Hospital visitation and second of kin. Tax breaks. Higher work Pay. The list goes ever on.

If you feel as if you can stay with someone for years, get married for the reason of it just makes your life even better and easier.

It is far more than just a document that says you live together. There is good reason why homosexuals have been trying to get access to marriage: It offers more than civil unions, gives some pretty needed privileges, etc.

You do not get married to lock a relationship. You do not get married to prove you love someone. You do not get married to do anything other than get the papers that say you are. If you aren't willing to stay together before hand, then marriage is not going to help you.

Which brings us to the divorce part of this thread. "Don't get married or you'll get divorced!" Seriously? I'm sorry if your parents broke up or something, but that is not the systems fault. It lies on the shoulders of the people that locked rings. If they can't hold a marriage together or marry the wrong person and become the 50% of people who divorce, then quite frankly that is there own fault for the short sightedness.

Dude, marry her if you think you can spend the rest of your life with her. If you want my advise, don't even propose. Proposing is, in my opinion, a good part of the reason why marriage's end in flames so often. You both should reflect and talk on how you feel about each other and your situation. While it may be difficult right now, try to rationally think out the next few years and consider that she will be there at all times.

If you both can cope with being with each other for a long time, then take your relationship up a notch and live together, eat together, breath together, etc for awhile.

If all ends well and you both find peace with each other, THEN go get the marriage papers and sign them.

In the end, it is not a religious document no matter what people tell you. It is not a religious ceremony. It is nothing but a legally binding document that gives you a large amount of very good and very important rights that will simply make certain aspects of your union move smoother.

In summary, don't ever think of proposing. Think about and focus on becoming -friends- with your girlfriend. Because, if you honestly cannot see her as a friend then it isn't going to go anywhere. Propose when you can both come to an agreement and a peace together.

Personally I never got the whole man on his knee proposing thing. Sure, it is dramatic and such but what does it accomplish? Spring the question and get an answer in the heat of the moment? It should be mutual, and it should be planned. It should be agreed upon and more thought should go into it than "what type of ring do I buy?"

That is the best I can give. Don't pay attention to all of this teenage angst "don't do it!" BS, because only you know if you fit into that 50% of people. The choice is yours on which 50% you will be in.
True_Avery is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2009, 05:39 AM   #31
Taak Farst
Eat The Rude
 
Taak Farst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,561
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Forum Veteran 
All marriages I have seen - which are only like 4 - have all gone down the drain. However, I still think marriage is a big step needed for a commited relationship. While the couple might get divorced, I still think you should do it. If you really love someone, some things are worth getting your heart broken for.

But there are marriages that WORK OUT for the rest of someone's life! Look at Jae Onasi - how long has she been married? Isn't it 40 years?? 40 years and still happily married -- that's doable for anyone if u know how to do it.

But I don't know anything about this because I'm 12, just wanted to say my thoughts


Taak Farst is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2009, 06:59 AM   #32
EnderWiggin
Sine Amore Nihil Est Vita
 
EnderWiggin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,395
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribbiani View Post
Look at Jae Onasi - how long has she been married? Isn't it 40 years?? 40 years and still happily married -- that's doable for anyone if u know how to do it.

But I don't know anything about this because I'm 12, just wanted to say my thoughts
Jae, you are going to have to kill TSR for making that comment... Now everyone thinks you've been married for 40 years

@Tribbiani: I'm pretty sure Jae & Jim are coming up on their 20th anniversary, but your point still holds

_EW_



Hello, Pot? This is Kettle. You're black. ~ Prime

Yes, I hate you.

J7 - thanks for accepting me as part of the 'family.'
EnderWiggin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2009, 08:24 AM   #33
mur'phon
Whale eating vegetarian
 
mur'phon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southier than thou
Posts: 1,537
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
My point was that you shouldn't marry women with the assumption that you're going to "protect" them and "provide" for them. If that's the way both you and your wife want to be, go right ahead.
Nope, I'm a feminist and will probably end up taking work paid in a clearer consience so not as if I'll ever end up as a breadwinner. My post was mainly directed towards Advardes, as I believe the legal benefits/liabilities are a good thing about marriage.
My point is that if you love someone why not get registered? No party needed.Just give (or take) the rights you (he/she) deserve, enjoy the shared benefits and each other.

Quote:
But marrying women because they make less is one of those prime reasons that women are paid less.
Agreed.
mur'phon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2009, 08:56 AM   #34
Tommycat
>^..^<
 
Tommycat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,578
Current Game: Real Life 1.0(BETA)
Forum Veteran 
This is a subject I am pretty familiar with.

First let me preface this with my own tale. I was with the same woman for 8 years before we got married. Through that whole time we argued about on average once per year. I got married to her about 2 years ago. From that point we started arguing a great deal. Then last July we broke up. She was sleeping around on me for a month at least. Now we're going through divorce.

Ok so with that out of the way, you'd think I would have a negative view of marriage. I do not. I still have faith that marriage is a good thing. See my dad was married to my biological mom for 16 years before their divorce. The next woman he married he was with until his death. My grandmother was married and divorced once until she met the man I knew as my grandfather. She was married to that man until he died(better than 30 years). Those really indicate that while the first marriage may have ended badly, the next marriage has a higher success rate. It really depends on the maturity of both parties. if you have a similar maturity, you will likely mature together. Or you will have learned about how to really make a relationship work.


"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson
Tommycat is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-03-2009, 12:48 PM   #35
Taak Farst
Eat The Rude
 
Taak Farst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 1,561
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
Jae, you are going to have to kill TSR for making that comment... Now everyone thinks you've been married for 40 years

@Tribbiani: I'm pretty sure Jae & Jim are coming up on their 20th anniversary, but your point still holds

_EW_
well now im embarrassed..damn TSR - but im glad my point holds :P


Taak Farst is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-04-2009, 11:47 AM   #36
Adavardes
Junior Member
 
Adavardes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 476
I'm gonna have to go with Qliveur. It doesn't make your life better or easier. There's just soemthing about being legally bound to a person, no matter how much you love them, that detracts from the relationship and puts it under strain. Do you know how much you can fall out of love and learn to despise someone by thinking of them as a legal obligation instead of a relationship built on trust and commitment that doesn't need a paper saying you love one another?

The benefits do not outweigh the setbacks. Don't get married.



It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built.
Adavardes is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-04-2009, 11:54 AM   #37
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,916
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
I'm gonna have to go with Qliveur. It doesn't make your life better or easier. There's just soemthing about being legally bound to a person, no matter how much you love them, that detracts from the relationship and puts it under strain. Do you know how much you can fall out of love and learn to despise someone by thinking of them as a legal obligation instead of a relationship built on trust and commitment that doesn't need a paper saying you love one another?

The benefits do not outweigh the setbacks. Don't get married.
What? I'm legally bound to my husband, and have been for almost 19 years now. It doesn't strain us at all, and we don't feel it's an 'obligation' at all. I'm sorry you've had a miserable experience with marriage somewhere, but this is your opinion of it, and not truth. You can fall out of love without the piece of paper--I've certainly seen that happen a whole lot more often than I've seen it happen after someone's married. How many breakups of non-married people did you see in high school and college? I've seen plenty--far more than I've seen breakups of marriage.

There are any number of studies showing the health benefits of marriage vs. other types of relationships, so the benefits most certainly do outweigh the costs. Married men live longer and generally have less depression than non-married men. There is less poverty in married households than in unmarried households. Look up on medscape's medline search and you'll find numerous studies showing the benefits of marriage. You've made an assumption on marriage based on your opinon, but it's incorrect, since the benefits of marriage are greater.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-04-2009, 04:43 PM   #38
True_Avery
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
I'm gonna have to go with Qliveur. It doesn't make your life better or easier. There's just soemthing about being legally bound to a person, no matter how much you love them, that detracts from the relationship and puts it under strain. Do you know how much you can fall out of love and learn to despise someone by thinking of them as a legal obligation instead of a relationship built on trust and commitment that doesn't need a paper saying you love one another?

The benefits do not outweigh the setbacks. Don't get married.
Then the people who got married are idiots and should have never been together in the first place.

If the piece of paper breaks up your marriage, then its your fault. If you think of them as a legal obligation, that is your fault.

Fall in love with them, become their friend, and determine if you can spend the rest of your life together. The document just assures you certain legal privileges like next of kin, joint custody of children, etc. It is when you assume marriage is anymore that you start sabotaging your relationship.
True_Avery is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-05-2009, 05:34 PM   #39
Darth333
Administraterror
 
Darth333's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In my secret dungeon...
Posts: 8,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi View Post
How many breakups of non-married people did you see in high school and college? I've seen plenty--far more than I've seen breakups of marriage.
I wouldn't really take high-school break-ups into account here...in general, they're not serious relationships (and it's the case with several early college relationships too). Besides, people can't normally get married at that age either...Seems irrelevant.

Quote:
There are any number of studies showing the health benefits of marriage vs. other types of relationships, so the benefits most certainly do outweigh the costs. Married men live longer and generally have less depression than non-married men. There is less poverty in married households than in unmarried households. Look up on medscape's medline search and you'll find numerous studies showing the benefits of marriage. You've made an assumption on marriage based on your opinon, but it's incorrect, since the benefits of marriage are greater.
I doubt that has anything to do with the mere fact that a couple is legally married or not. Those same people referred to in the studies who are living in a couple's relationship wouldn't probably be richer or happier if married. I am pretty sure that it has more to do with the general lifestyle, background and culture instead of the marriage "stamp" ( from what I saw in the past, several studies seem to consider couples who are not married but "living as if married" in the same category as "legally married" people and list them as "married" btw). I personally don't believe in marriage "benefits" other than its possible legal (and/or religious for some people) implications: I think that a couple can have a relation that is just as stable and lasting without that.

Almost everyone I know who isn't over 65yrs of age isn't legally married and their couple's relationship is steady, some of them living together since more than 30yrs now...(in fact only one of my friends from college married...it was 10 yrs ago and now she's divorced). I don't see how being legally married or not, would have an effect on the duration of the relation and love...
Darth333 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-05-2009, 06:57 PM   #40
Web Rider
Senior Member
 
Web Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: here
Posts: 1,768
That is somewhat of the irony to the show The Starter Wife. It is often the first marriages that people are unprepared for, I mean really, you can't honestly say you know what a marriage is going to be like if you've never been in one. Even though a committed relationship can come close, it's just not the same. But it really depends, and I think there's a good point here that's been made about actually talking things over instead of just spur of the moment proposing.

I don't think it's fair however, if you're going to say that a legal document is going to be enough to make you stop loving a person and thing of them as an "obligation" more than a realtionship, then you really didn't love them to begin with. And I'm not saying this in some kind of weird "GOD WANTS MARRIAGE!!!" thing, just that a legal commitment shouldn't make any more difference in a strong relationship than anything else. All that say is you're looking for an "out" at any chance you get. Hey, covering your bases is fine, but if you don't want to commit to a legal union on the grounds that you may not love them 3 years from now, well you're gonna have a break up regardless of if it's called a divorce or not.


"So if you go to Washington, it's buildings clean and nice. Bring a pack of matches...and we'll burn the White House twice!"

"Nobody's talking about extermination. No one ever does. They just do it." - Magneto

"Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice, unless you get a good percentage of her price."
Web Rider is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Community > Kavar's Corner > Marriage; Pointless or Worthwhile?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:36 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.