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Old 04-13-2009, 12:54 PM   #1
Totenkopf
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Modern day high seea piracy

Ok, how's that for a serious topic. In light of the recent events re the Maersk Alabama, piracy has (at least temporarily) regained the spotlight. So the purpose of this is twofold.

1)How do you feel/what do you think about the way this crisis was handled?
(and what the hell does Hilary mean exactly by "21st century solution"?)

2)What do you think should be the future response to this problem? Arm merchant ships? Etc...?

Since this isn't necessarily a politics/religion question (though proposed solutions may end up falling along partisan lines), I didn't think it necessary to put in hot topics section.

Ok, people, have at it....


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Old 04-13-2009, 03:07 PM   #2
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Quote:
1)How do you feel/what do you think about the way this crisis was handled?
Well enough, if the offical stance is no negotiation, droping it for the sake of one guy would be a waste.

Quote:
2)What do you think should be the future response to this problem? Arm merchant ships? Etc...?
Arming merchant ships would likely mean more cassualties (unarmed sailors are worth more alive), then again it might work. No matter which armed solution is choosen would require some investment in the region, unless you are willing to make the armed meassures permanent.
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Old 04-13-2009, 03:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Ok, how's that for a serious topic. In light of the recent events re the Maersk Alabama, piracy has (at least temporarily) regained the spotlight. So the purpose of this is twofold.

1)How do you feel/what do you think about the way this crisis was handled?
(and what the hell does Hilary mean exactly by "21st century solution"?)
Well, it seems there are only two options; a) You inflict such high casualties on the pirates they stop (it is of course debatable as to if this will actually work) or b) you find them some other means of making a living (stabilising Somalia, may well be necessary to achieve the latter)

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Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
2)What do you think should be the future response to this problem? Arm merchant ships? Etc...?
A mixture of the two above, there should be a blanket no negotiation strategy, and not give the pirates any money for taking hostages (also I'd recommend a zero tolerance on any pirates who execute hostages - they kill a hostage, and you kill them all, when the opportunity arrives) . In hand with this, stabilising Somalia, and giving the pirates an alternative means of making money I think is the way to go. The military should respond to all hostage situations in the way the French handled their problem earlier this week. - My 2 cents.



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Old 04-13-2009, 04:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
1)How do you feel/what do you think about the way this crisis was handled?
I think it was the right response. I was surprised that the US Navy hadn't gone in earlier, but I think it was about the only way it could have ended.

Quote:
2)What do you think should be the future response to this problem? Arm merchant ships? Etc...?
Keelhaul those responsible.

I don't know about arming ships, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see crews carrying weaponry at all times in high-risk areas such as the Gulf of Aden. My father mentioned a return to travelling in convoys, but I don't see the situation being that severe.

I can definately see an increase in naval deployment - in addition to the multi-national taskforce already there. An increase in regular patrols, close to the coast of Somalia would make sense too.






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Old 04-13-2009, 04:28 PM   #5
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1) It was a sound response and was the only way it could have been solved truly.

2) I pretty much agree with what Jonathan said above.


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Old 04-13-2009, 05:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
there should be a blanket no negotiation strategy
While I can see this working (at least somewhat) when it commes to human hostages, ships are a bit harder. How do you persuade companies to not negotiate when their survival depends on the survival of a ship? Do you make a law forbiding negotiations, and then say tough luck to such companies? Or will the state pay for any lost ships due to the no negotiation strategy?
Just curious.

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they kill a hostage, and you kill them all, when the opportunity arrives
Emphasis mine. The problem with the pirates is that they tend to be rather hard to separate from ordinary people, even while at sea they often look like fishing boats. So an opportunity is likely to be hard to come by indeed.
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Ok, how's that for a serious topic. In light of the recent events re the Maersk Alabama, piracy has (at least temporarily) regained the spotlight. So the purpose of this is twofold.

1)How do you feel/what do you think about the way this crisis was handled?
(and what the hell does Hilary mean exactly by "21st century solution"?)
I think it was done well enough. We surrounded the pirates, I suspect, we kept the public and the media uninformed in case the pirates had backup and were watching the news on live international stream. (Now if they would have just done this for the wars in Afghanistan/Iraq. <frown>)

We didn't negotiate and kept to our guns. They got greedy I guess, and we whacked them since they took too long anyway. Or we held them in place, or both.

BTW, J7, excellent tactical prowess--didn't know you had it in you.

So far as what Hillary Means...is anyone's guess. She's never *really* been straightforward. May just be my opinion, though.

Quote:
2)What do you think should be the future response to this problem? Arm merchant ships? Etc...?
Sure. I mean, if other countries are shadily dispensing assault weapons like "Rolos" from a vending machine...why not arm our folks with the same armaments? Occupational hazards ought to have adequate equipment to confront the problems as a countermeasure, no?

Sure we could leave it to international forces, but to be honest I do not believe they could do an effective job of enforcement.

Quote:
Since this isn't necessarily a politics/religion question (though proposed solutions may end up falling along partisan lines), I didn't think it necessary to put in hot topics section.

Ok, people, have at it....

Maybe the situation required a certain measure of timing and delicacy. If not, then I don't see why we didn't just whack the bastards sooner. Just my .
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Originally Posted by Astor Kaine View Post
I think it was the right response. I was surprised that the US Navy hadn't gone in earlier, but I think it was about the only way it could have ended.
Couldn't agree more.

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Keelhaul those responsible.
MMMMM. Tasty. I like your style.

Quote:
I don't know about arming ships, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see crews carrying weaponry at all times in high-risk areas such as the Gulf of Aden. My father mentioned a return to travelling in convoys, but I don't see the situation being that severe.
You never know. Maybe not for now, but it would be a safe consideration, no?

Quote:
I can definately see an increase in naval deployment - in addition to the multi-national taskforce already there. An increase in regular patrols, close to the coast of Somalia would make sense too.
In general even.


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Old 04-13-2009, 08:21 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
(and what the hell does Hilary mean exactly by "21st century solution"?)
We let them "take a shower" instead of sending them to the gallows.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:16 PM   #9
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That'll give a whole new meaning to "hard" water.


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Old 04-13-2009, 11:26 PM   #10
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I'm surprised they aren't doing convoys already--the piracy problem has been a big problem in that area for several years now. I'm glad the SEALs got the Captain back. I think the US just sent a huge 'don't screw with us' message to Somalia's pirates. We won't negotiate, but we sure aren't going to let the pirates take our guys with impunity. Seems like a rather old strategy, not sure why H. Clinton called it a 21st century solution. Nice soundbite I suppose.

Still, the pirates are going to resort to piracy as long as it pays off so well. They are going to continue to flaunt Somalian law (or be encouraged in their piracy by the gov't under the table) as long as they make more money than they feel the risk entails. I'm not sure what can be done that is as lucrative as piracy in Somalia, or most of the world, for that matter, short of owning Saudi oil fields or Microsoft.


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Old 04-14-2009, 03:51 PM   #11
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They will continue until they make the mistake to annoy someone really powerful to the point where they get the **** beaten out of them. While Germany takes part in the EU operation "Atlanta", which is mainly a show presence act, Russia for instance has military ships guiding their ships secretly, "obviously" not with the intention to show presence but rather to strike against the pirates. And, when the pirates captured the Saudi Arabian "Sirius Star" in late 2008, fully loaded with Saudi Arabian oil worth about $100M, groups of Islamists were after the hijackers of the ship of a "Muslim nation".

Quote:
Dozens of Somali Islamist insurgents stormed a port on Friday hunting the pirates behind the seizure of a Saudi supertanker that was the world’s biggest hijack, a local elder said. According to reports, the insurgents are hunting the pirates for hijacking a Muslim nation's ship, which in their eyes, is a crime that can't go unpunished.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:55 PM   #12
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Seems like a rather old strategy, not sure why H. Clinton called it a 21st century solution. Nice soundbite I suppose.
They shot them with .50 calibre sniper rifles. On a boat. That moves. Obviously aimbots were used. That's most certainly a 21st century solution.
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:10 PM   #13
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More like a 21st century twist on an ages old solution (ie, kill the bastards).


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

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Old 04-15-2009, 01:00 AM   #14
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Sounds fine to me.

"Oh, we have to be tooooolerant and understaaaaanding."
Really? How's this:

We have "tolerated" this before and it culminated in some of our own dead being dragged unceremoniously behind a boat over a decade ago--or do people need a reminder?

We "understand" they will do it again and thus we cannot allow such things to continue.

Tolerant and uderstanding. Pure and simple.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
1)How do you feel/what do you think about the way this crisis was handled?
(and what the hell does Hilary mean exactly by "21st century solution"?)
Three of them died, one was captured, and no innocents lost their lives. That's acceptable to me.
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Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
2)What do you think should be the future response to this problem? Arm merchant ships? Etc...?
Arming merchant ships would be a good start. Recognizing Somaliland as a nation, would be a step in the right direction, too.
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Old 04-16-2009, 03:36 PM   #16
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For some reason I always feel like jumping on my Thousand Sunny and questing for One Piece whenever Katie Couric brings up the recent pirate attacks...


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Old 04-17-2009, 02:06 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
They shot them with .50 calibre sniper rifles. On a boat. That moves. Obviously aimbots were used. That's most certainly a 21st century solution.
Hey--they had those things in 1999, you know.


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Old 04-17-2009, 08:50 AM   #18
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My bro is in the merchant navy, adn when I asked him about it he laughed for some strange reason.

On the other hand, I think it's brilliant. I'd love to be a pirate.


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Old 04-17-2009, 10:04 AM   #19
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I thought the Navy handled this incident brilliantly. To their credit they did attempt to negotiate until they felt they had no other option and the CO of the Bainbridge made a decision that had already been authorized by the President.

Handling further incidents unfortunately has to be done case by case. I don't think there can be a blanket policy here because there are so many different factors. The sheer vastness of the body of water the military is being asked to patrol makes it impossible for them to be everywhere at once. The involvment of hostages makes every interception difficult because if innocents start getting killed in rescue attempts it would be impractical to continue such attempts. Finally as has been pointed out taking the fight to the pirates, while already authorized by the UN, is difficult because they do blend in with the locals so well and any action could be met with reprisal on the Somali people which no one wants to see.

At some point though I would guess that all these factors has to be weighed against the cost of allowing the pirates to continue on their present course of action.


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Old 04-18-2009, 09:20 PM   #20
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For some reason I always feel like jumping on my Thousand Sunny and questing for One Piece whenever Katie Couric brings up the recent pirate attacks...


Yeeea boyyeeeee!


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