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Old 05-31-2009, 06:01 PM   #1
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Was the World Created in 6 Days...?

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Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
You do know that some Christians actually believe the World was created in 6 days, right? There are actually some here that believe that. You wouldn't want to be put in that group just as my friend would hate to be confused with a group who believes "Jesus and Satan are brothers.
According to the Bible:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis 2:2
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
So which is correct: Was the World created in 6 or 7 days?

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Old 05-31-2009, 06:34 PM   #2
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Where's the "Neither/20 million years" option?
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:47 PM   #3
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There are two ways to go about this, either we:

1. Discuss the overwhelming evidence that proves evolution is true, thus invalidating the claim that the earth was created in an extremely short timespan

or

2. Discuss the overwhelming evidence that proves the bible is not a text that can be taken word for word literally as truth, which should allow the ideas of faith and evolution to cohere and form one belief for you (as it has for me).



Since option 2 is how I feel right now, try investigating the original hebrew text. The word in hebrew is not 'day' but 'yowm' which could be translated into 'day' 'era' 'age' or 'time'. Thus, it took God 6 "eras" or 6 "ages" to create the earth and on the 7th, he rested.

This site, while obviously biased, discusses this point: http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/day.html
Another, which is obviously a faith-based site, reiterating the possible usage as "time period": http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexic...17&version=kjv

_EW_



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Old 06-01-2009, 12:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev7 View Post
So which is correct: Was the World created in 6 or 7 days?
Clearly the text shows that it was created in 6 "days".

Whether or not that is a claim that has any supporting evidence is another matter entirely. There are multiple branches of science which have accumulated an overwhelming amount of corroborating evidence which would tend to lead right-thinking people to a different conclusion.
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:18 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
2. Discuss the overwhelming evidence that proves the bible is not a text that can be taken word for word literally as truth, which should allow the ideas of faith and evolution to cohere and form one belief for you (as it has for me).



Since option 2 is how I feel right now, try investigating the original hebrew text. The word in hebrew is not 'day' but 'yowm' which could be translated into 'day' 'era' 'age' or 'time'. Thus, it took God 6 "eras" or 6 "ages" to create the earth and on the 7th, he rested.

This site, while obviously biased, discusses this point: http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/day.html
Another, which is obviously a faith-based site, reiterating the possible usage as "time period": http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexic...17&version=kjv

_EW_
Okay, makes sense....we have the word 'yowm'...now where is the overwhelming evidence...
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Originally Posted by Achilles
There are multiple branches of science which have accumulated an overwhelming amount of corroborating evidence which would tend to lead right-thinking people to a different conclusion.
Was that really necessary?

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Old 06-01-2009, 12:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rev7 View Post
Was that really necessary?
Was it really necessary to point out that anyone who takes the time to learn what the science shows will know that the world wasn't created in 6 "days"? Yes, considering the alarming number of people that believe so, I would state that it does indeed appear to be necessary.

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Old 06-01-2009, 01:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
There are two ways to go about this, either we:

1. Discuss the overwhelming evidence that proves evolution is true, thus invalidating the claim that the earth was created in an extremely short timespan

or

2. Discuss the overwhelming evidence that proves the bible is not a text that can be taken word for word literally as truth, which should allow the ideas of faith and evolution to cohere and form one belief for you (as it has for me).



Since option 2 is how I feel right now, try investigating the original hebrew text. The word in hebrew is not 'day' but 'yowm' which could be translated into 'day' 'era' 'age' or 'time'. Thus, it took God 6 "eras" or 6 "ages" to create the earth and on the 7th, he rested.

This site, while obviously biased, discusses this point: http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/day.html
Another, which is obviously a faith-based site, reiterating the possible usage as "time period": http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexic...17&version=kjv

_EW_
Problem with your Era theory.

Quote:
11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind.
Then. From verse 11 (God creates plants) to verse 20 (God creates animals and insects).

Quote:
20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22
The plants had to go without pollination for an era(s)? If that was true they would've died (that's basic science). So, it had to be in one day.

I don't understand how you can claim to be a christian, and then claim you don't believe the Bible (or at least say so by saying you believe in evolution). Does it not say to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength? And, to love God is to love (and obey) his teaching (or his word).


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Old 06-01-2009, 01:22 AM   #8
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death to those who do not believe the king james bible, the true word of god



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Old 06-01-2009, 05:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M@RS
The plants had to go without pollination for an era(s)? If that was true they would've died (that's basic science). So, it had to be in one day.
Oh, so trees and all that stuff grow in one day --clearly a basic science fact.

Quote:
I don't understand how you can claim to be a christian, and then claim you don't believe the Bible (or at least say so by saying you believe in evolution). Does it not say to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength? And, to love God is to love (and obey) his teaching (or his word).
As I understand it, being Christian and believing in the bible are not synonymous claims.



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Old 06-01-2009, 07:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M@RS View Post
The plants had to go without pollination for an era(s)? If that was true they would've died (that's basic science). So, it had to be in one day.
Actually no. Not at all. Not even close. Plants don't require animals to pollinate, they're actually quite fine on their own. Many actually can self pollinate if the need arises (ie if there are no animals around).

Angiosperm reproduction is also quite different from the reproduction of gymnosperms, don't forget. (ie double fertilization to form the cotyledons in the seed coat).

Your rudimentary knowledge of "science" is not enough to indicate anything. By the way, some plants have evolved to have adaptations to allow plants to have more variation. These adaptations include tricking animals into helping pollinate, instead of using the wind and proximity to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M@RS
I don't understand how you can claim to be a christian, and then claim you don't believe the Bible (or at least say so by saying you believe in evolution). Does it not say to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength? And, to love God is to love (and obey) his teaching (or his word).
Because unlike fundamentalists, I think critically about what I believe. I can love God with all my heart without disagreeing with Evolution.

(By the way to love God is not "to love (and obey) his teaching (or his word)". To love God is to Love God.)

The Bible is a book, (even you can agree) that was written by humans. Humans have biases and predjudices, have points of view and make mistakes. So the original writers could have made an error. And then, the people who translated it from Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek (respectively) to Latin and then English could have also done the same.

I believe in what the bible is saying, but more an overall sense. "Adam and Eve" weren't writing down the story of creation in the nude so who wrote it? And who's to say that they wrote it perfectly?

Riddle me this:
Show spoiler


and
Show spoiler


The real question is, why do these two stories (Gen 1 and Gen 2) differ? More, how is it possible for them to differ?

_EW_



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Old 06-01-2009, 01:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M@RS View Post
The plants had to go without pollination for an era(s)? If that was true they would've died (that's basic science). So, it had to be in one day.
Are you saying God couldn't pollinate the plants without animals? Your argument seems to question God’s power.


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Old 06-01-2009, 02:49 PM   #12
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So which is correct: Was the World created in 6 or 7 days?
I think that the correct answer would be that it doesn't matter how long He took.
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Was that really necessary?
This is the Senate, Rev, where anti-theistic propaganda is the rule.


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Old 06-01-2009, 02:52 PM   #13
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This is the Senate, Rev, where anti-theistic propaganda is the rule.
Yet, you're still allowed to post here. Don't you think that poses a logical problem for your rhetoric?
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Old 06-01-2009, 03:28 PM   #14
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Was that really necessary?
I honestly don't see the problem. You asked a question and received an answer, and Achilles added his opinion. Religious thoughts, no matter how much they mean to you, are not above correction if they interfere with the knowledge we have of the world we live in.

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Old 06-01-2009, 07:28 PM   #15
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Actually, his opinion wasn't necessary, nor was it topical. It was merely an opportunistic slap at theists. Whether you think the world evolved or was created by someone/thing, the OP made it clear he was talking about a passage. Whether you think said material is "full of it" is immaterial. However, it might have helped some people here if he'd added "according to the Bible" (though it was clearly implicit in his post).

Actually, the English text you provided could be interpretted two ways. He finished his work on the 7th day and rested or he finished it by the end of day 6 and rested all of the 7th. However, noone was around to see any of this and mimartin's point is quite valid. If God created the universe, then surely He could pollinate the plants w/o the help of insect or animal.


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Old 06-01-2009, 07:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Actually, his opinion wasn't necessary, nor was it topical. It was merely an opportunistic slap at theists. Whether you think the world evolved or was created by someone/thing, the OP made it clear he was talking about a passage. Whether you think said material is "full of it" is immaterial. However, it might have helped some people here if he'd added "according to the Bible" (though it was clearly implicit in his post).

Actually, the English text you provided could be interpretted two ways. He finished his work on the 7th day and rested or he finished it by the end of day 6 and rested all of the 7th. However, noone was around to see any of this and mimartin's point is quite valid. If God created the universe, then surely He could pollinate the plants w/o the help of insect or animal.
....really?

Your continuous lack of comprehension when it comes to these debates is starting to become a bit suspicious. If you read the OP (including where I was quoted) you'd see that this thread was spawned from a mini-debate Rev7 and I were having because I touted evolution over the 6-day theory. His bible verse is a representation of his point of view. He's presented a claim and hopes to have us prove it false (to the extent we can).

So the material being "full of it" is in fact not so irrelevant. In fact, it is inherent to this debate, one that you seem woefully confused with. And if he had added "according to the bible" it would have made this thread absolutely pointless, something I thought was implicit as well. Guess we were both wrong

@topic - here's a nice little youtube clip that helps with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5369-OobM4

_EW_

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Last edited by EnderWiggin; 06-01-2009 at 07:47 PM. Reason: added the conversation between Rev7 and myself, corroborating Tot's.... misunderstanding.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ew
....really?
Your continuous lack of comprehension when it comes to these debates is starting to become a bit suspicious. If you read the OP (including where I was quoted) you'd see that this thread was spawned from a mini-debate Rev7 and I were having because I touted evolution over the 6-day theory. His bible verse is a representation of his point of view. He's presented a claim and hopes to have us prove it false (to the extent we can).
Seriously, dude, can the snarkiness. It's obvious from the context of the quotes that Rev7 provided that he's talking about a question of 6 vs 7 DAYS (days/eons/eras whatever you want to call it). It wasn't a question of religion vs science as achilles derided it with his aside. He didn't ask if it was correct that it was 6 days vs 4-6 billion years. Your whole argument about miscomprehension is, as usual, misplaced. Leading me to question your motives as well. Even you referenced quote shows that the debate revolves around the # of "days" and not whether God or evolution/big bang created the earth. My observation about achilles' comment was spot on, your apparent inability to comprehend that notwithstanding. Frankly, when you read the question in the OP, it's pretty explicit that he wants top know whether the answer is 6 or 7 (not whether "skydaddy" had a hand in it at all).


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Old 06-01-2009, 10:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev7
No problem, it would be easier to discuss in a thread. I am open minded to this. I do believe that evolution has occured--that can be proven. I know that micro-evolution has occured; however, I do not think that macro-evolution has occured.

At any rate, I am interested in what you have to say, so I will most likely start a thread. You mentioned to start one in the Senate....?
Does that sound like 6 v 7 days to you? Talk of evolution?

I guess it's not so obvious what he meant, since you're still having trouble with it.

_EW_



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Old 06-03-2009, 02:30 AM   #19
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Was that really necessary?
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Actually, his opinion wasn't necessary, nor was it topical. It was merely an opportunistic slap at theists.
I disagree. I think it was an opportunistic slap at poor critical thought.

And I think it *is* necessary to point out that an a priori acceptance of religious superstition over empiricism and scientific observation is just plain silly. If someone wants to publicly post his/her superstitions in a debate forum, he/she should be prepared to defend those superstitions rationally and have the silliness objectified.

That the statement is a "slap at theists" is wrong. Completely and utterly. There are plenty of theists who are also "right thinking" when it comes to science and reality. There is simply no good reason to accept believe the planet was "created" according to the biblical myth or according to any other ancient myth.


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Old 06-03-2009, 03:21 AM   #20
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Genesis 1-11 (roughly) is mythical, not historical. That idea that one must hold to what is essentially Young Earth Creationism as literal scientific fact in order to be a "true Christian" (or true Jew) is simply incorrect, and at least a billion will disagree with you if you say it does.

And before somebody says "well that's just a modernist cop-out" I'll have you know that allegorical interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures (including Genesis) is at least 2,000 years old.

Of course there is a difference between claiming the creation was a short process vs. it was a recent AND short process, but either one presents insurmountable problems with the mountain of scientific evidence.


But there's always the real cop-out that God miraculously created the universe in a week, and made it only appear as if it were billions of years old (which I don't hold to either, in case you were wondering)! This may be well within God's power, but it also begs the question...


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Old 06-03-2009, 05:39 AM   #21
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I disagree. I think it was an opportunistic slap at poor critical thought.

And I think it *is* necessary to point out that an a priori acceptance of religious superstition over empiricism and scientific observation is just plain silly. If someone wants to publicly post his/her superstitions in a debate forum, he/she should be prepared to defend those superstitions rationally and have the silliness objectified.

That the statement is a "slap at theists" is wrong. Completely and utterly. There are plenty of theists who are also "right thinking" when it comes to science and reality. There is simply no good reason to accept believe the planet was "created" according to the biblical myth or according to any other ancient myth.
If his question had been 6 days vs 4-6 billion years, I'd agree with you. While I think you make some valid points otherwise, I'd say you're wrong about the nature of the potshot.


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Old 06-03-2009, 10:06 AM   #22
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death to those who do not believe the king james bible, the true word of god
I prefer the Douay-Rheims Bible because somebody did a Find and Replace before it was released to make 'burnt offering' into 'holocaust'.

Let me offer you a holocaust.


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Old 06-03-2009, 10:14 AM   #23
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The original Hebrew language leaves some wiggle room for interpretation as to 6 literal 24-hour days as we know them (although how is there any way to tell how long a day is before creation of the Sun?) or 6 discreet "steps" of somewhat indeterminate length.

So each "day" as described could be years (perhaps millions or billions) long.

In that sense, the scientific and religious accounts could be seen as almost lining up to a certain extent. (Big bang creation of the universe; formation of stars; formation of our sun and solar system; Earth becoming a wet planet; evolution of the animal world; the rise or humans...)

Although, one has to wonder: For a deity of such power, why bother to do it in steps at all? Seems to me the authors of the book were imposing humanistic limits on their creator.

Then there's the not so small issue of 2 separate and somewhat differing creation stories in the first couple of chapters of the book of Genesis.


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Old 06-03-2009, 10:46 AM   #24
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Then there's the not so small issue of 2 separate and somewhat differing creation stories in the first couple of chapters of the book of Genesis.
Which is consistent with a culture that was in the process of moving from a set of polytheistic cults to a monotheistic one, which borrowed heavily from, and embellished just as heavily, existing Mesopotamian mythology (i.e. Gilgamesh, the earliest known written story).


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Old 06-03-2009, 02:54 PM   #25
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So each "day" as described could be years (perhaps millions or billions) long.
Indeed it could. However even if we were to resolve this one issue, it still would not match what modern cosmology tells us about the formation of the universe.

To your point, why would it take an omnipotent being 6 million/billion years to create a universe? He/she/it is capable of kicking off the big bang with a thought, yet we need multiple generations of stars/novae in order to form heavy elements? What do we win by successfully shoe-horning actual science into a 2000 year (or more ala OT) old series of stories?
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:16 PM   #26
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Indeed it could. However even if we were to resolve this one issue, it still would not match what modern cosmology tells us about the formation of the universe.
Not exactly... you'd have to be super-generous in looking for the parallels.
But it could be the super-condensed, ultra-simplified version for folks who really don't want or care about the science facts, and just want to know that it was done at all.


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Old 06-04-2009, 01:29 AM   #27
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But it could be the super-condensed, ultra-simplified version for folks who really don't want or care about the science facts, and just want to know that it was done at all.
And that's fine too, but accuracy should count. I'm all for making the answer as digestible as possible, but "goddunit and it twas magical" doesn't constitute an answer.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:51 AM   #28
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I agree... but there will always be those that just never want to hear it.

My theory is that if you can get someone to accept the fact that the words of Genesis and the scientific knowledge we have of the formation of the universe aren't completely in conflict... then you've gotten a door that was completely sealed-shut open perhaps a tiny bit.


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Old 06-04-2009, 02:08 AM   #29
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I agree... but there will always be those that just never want to hear it.
Okay. Then those individuals should a) politely excuse themselves from the conversation due to a self-professed lack of interest and b) stop insisting that the scientific community pander to them.

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My theory is that if you can get someone to accept the fact that the words of Genesis and the scientific knowledge we have of the formation of the universe aren't completely in conflict... then you've gotten a door that was completely sealed-shut open perhaps a tiny bit.
And you might be correct. My thinking is that you don't foster an interest in math by letting kids believe that 2+2= whatever number they want it to equal until they are old enough (???) to decide on their own that they are okay with it being 4.
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:52 PM   #30
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I think it's as possible as the prospect of a senior citizen rounding up one of every species of animal onto a boat


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Old 06-04-2009, 06:18 PM   #31
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I think it's as possible as the prospect of a senior citizen rounding up one of every species of animal onto a boat
I believe the exact term was "kind". Where "kind" fits in the taxonomy is unknown

Hint: is a chihuahua the same "kind" as a great dane or are they different? Great dane and a wolf? Wolf and a coyote?
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:21 PM   #32
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^^But that doesn't really serve as a counterpoint to Blix's argument.

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Old 06-04-2009, 06:41 PM   #33
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More of an aside/correction. "Species" is clearly defined. One can look it up and know what it means. "Kind" is a little (a lot) different.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:56 PM   #34
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I believe the exact term was "kind". Where "kind" fits in the taxonomy is unknown

Hint: is a chihuahua the same "kind" as a great dane or are they different? Great dane and a wolf? Wolf and a coyote?
Split hairs much (flashes of Quincy)

Also nobody answered my question...


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Old 06-06-2009, 12:42 AM   #35
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Split hairs much
It's not even close to "splitting hairs". There is no "kind" in our taxonomy. "Species" means something and tells us something specific. "Kind" does not.

If noah (allegedly) took two of every "species" onto the ark, then we know that he took two chihuahuas, two wolves, two great danes, two pekineses, two labradors, two golden retrievers, etc, etc, etc. That's just a smattering of "dogs". Let's do this for "cats", "horses", "cows", etc and compare it to how big we're told the ark is (vs how big it would have to be).

Aside: Wikipedia tells me that there are 34 species of deer. Memory tells me that there are more than 300,000 species of beetles.

If noah (allegedly) took two of every "class" onto the ark, then we know that he took two "dogs" (not very specific as we know that "dog" is a very vague reference to a very long list of possible species). He took two "cats" too? Great. Same problem as above. Does that mean he took two lions or does that mean he took two house cats (Felis catus)?

So, please, feel free to demonstrate how I am indeed "splitting hairs" by clarifying for me precisely what "kind" means. Thanks in advance.

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Also nobody answered my question...
You have one previous post in this thread. It does not contain a question.

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Old 06-06-2009, 02:05 AM   #36
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Well whatever races/species/kinds/genres or however you like it nitpick away to your own heart's content (on someone else's time mind you), I will use whatever terminology I am familiar and comfortable with thank you very much.

On-topic; I don't believe the world was actually created in 60 days (nor do I believe religion had a thing to do with the process). Now for my actual question since Achilles was kind enough to rectify for me, why and how could such a complex and wondrous world such as ours come to exist in only 6 days...to me it doesn't seem feasible.

Also to add onto before, I don't believe it was ever specified in the bible just how many different classifications of animals Noah brought aboard the Ark, all we know are 2 of every kind a male and a female. I'm not aware of how many different breeds/off-shoots of animals existed in that time frame, however I know if it were even 10,000 BC there would be a significant difference in the animals that popular culture assumes were all on the ark (2 chimps, two giraffes, two bears, two camels, etc.) Also how would Noah be able to travel all over the globe in enough time to gather such a bestiary before the flood happens? Pangea broke off into different countries a long time ago, so the selection of animals would be slim for the area he was in. Which brings me to ask, is he Santa Claus and does he have access to a super sled guided by eight reindeer?



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Old 06-06-2009, 02:13 AM   #37
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The real question is, why do these two stories (Gen 1 and Gen 2) differ? More, how is it possible for them to differ?

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Because the first story (Genesis 1) is describing the creation of Earth. Genesis 2 is describing the creation of the Garden of Eden...

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Memory tells me that there are more than 300,000 species of beetles.
Noah didn't have to take beetles, they can breath underwater just fine because they "breath" through their skin.


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I don't want to get my hopes up, but it's like the planets are aligning or something.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:31 AM   #38
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Well whatever races/species/kinds/genres or however you like it nitpick away to your own heart's content (on someone else's time mind you), I will use whatever terminology I am familiar and comfortable with thank you very much.
This is not an argument.

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On-topic; I don't believe the world was actually created in 60 days (nor do I believe religion had a thing to do with the process). Now for my actual question since Achilles was kind enough to rectify for me, why and how could such a complex and wondrous world such as our come to life in simply 6 days...to me it doesn't seem feasible.
Good for you. The scientific evidence agrees.

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Also to add onto before, I don't believe it was ever specified in the bible just how many different classifications of animals Noah brought aboard the Ark, all we know are 2 of every kind a male and a female.
Oh, so you do what to discuss this after all. Once more: please define "kind".

Here is a wikipedia link on biological classification (specifics on the taxonomy are shown in pretty colors on the right). Please point out which of these you suggest we equate with "kind".

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I'm not aware of how many different breeds/off-shoots of animals existed in that time frame, however I know if it were even 10,000 BC there would be a significant difference in the animals that popular culture assumes were all on the ark (2 chimps, two giraffes, two bears, two camels, etc.)
"All" what? There are 2 species of chimpanzees. Which are you referring to? When you say "bear" do you mean "Panda bear", "black bear" (asian or n. american?), "brown bear"?

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Also how would Noah be able to travel all over the globe in enough time to gather such a bestiary before the flood happens?
A good question. Another one is, how was he able to travel all over the globe to deposit specific species where we find them (i.e. marsupials in the Australia, etc) before the animals died?

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Pangea broke off into different countries a long time ago, so the selection of animals would be slim for the area he was in.
An valid argument which makes the mistake of assuming that the noah's ark myth actually transpired as well as many other things. Pangea split about 250 million years ago. The events from the noah myth are said to have occurred <6000 years ago. There is no mention of continental drift in the bible so there is no reason to assume that the authors were aware of it. Even so, we have no reason to believe that there would have been fewer animals around then anyway.

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Which brings me to ask is he Santa Claus and does he have access to a sled guided by eight reindeer?
9 if you accept the Rudolph mythos.

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Noah didn't have to take beetles, they can breath underwater just fine because they "breath" through their skin.
Well there goes the argument for how noah managed to take care of all the animal waste.

Since you didn't like that example (either you missed the point or are purposely attempting to avoid it): were you aware that there are more than 350 species of squirrel? One boy, one girl means at least 700 squirrels were on the ark (assuming that "kind" = "species"). But squirrels are small and don't take up much room, right? I notice you didn't offer commentary on the deer. Those are pretty big last time I checked. Again, we know how big the ark was. How soon before we start running out of room?

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Old 06-06-2009, 02:50 AM   #39
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This is not an argument.
I'm sorry?

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"All" what? There are 2 species of chimpanzees. Which are you referring to? When you say "bear" do you mean "Panda bear", "black bear" (asian or n. american?), "brown bear"?
Again, splitting hairs. But I'm sure that since you hold Phd's in zoology and philosophy. Of course I am only assuming such doctrines transpired in the first place, but you knew that already...

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A good question. Another one is, how was he able to travel all over the globe to deposit specific species where we find them (i.e. marsupials in the Australia, etc) before the animals died?
If we go by the classical myths we can assume there were limitless possibilities for Noah; he could have clicked his heels together three times, could have summoned a giant flying stingray to fly him from place to place, or he could have driven a sled.

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An valid argument which makes the mistake of assuming that the noah's ark myth actually transpired as well as many other things. Pangea split about 250 million years ago. The events from the noah myth are said to have occurred <6000 years ago. There is no mention of continental drift in the bible so there is no reason to assume that the authors were aware of it. Even so, we have no reason to believe that there would have been fewer animals around then anyway.
In making an argument you are either going to assume that something either happened or it didn't, I suppose I should have phrased it; "hypothetically speaking since Pangea broke off into different countries years ago, etc, etc". Thank you for the lesson, no really. Anyway I will willfully eject myself from the "conversation" before a moderator decides to do it for me. Plus I would hate for anyone else to miss out on the opportunity for a decent altercation...erm debate.



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Old 06-06-2009, 03:07 AM   #40
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I'm sorry?
An argument is a series of logical premises leading to a conclusion.

In other words, "this portion of your response doesn't say anything".

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Again, splitting hairs.
No, it's not "splitting hairs" as I have repeatedly pointed out. Your insistence that it is doesn't make it so (it's also not a counter-argument). If you insist on using the word "species", please do so correctly. If you insist on using the word "kind", please tell us what that means. I fail to understand what is so complicated about this.

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But I'm sure that since you hold Phd's in zoology and philosophy.
Neither, but then again, I don't see why either would be necessary. One does not need to be an expert to speak intelligently about a subject.

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Of course I am only assuming such doctrines transpired in the first place, but you knew that already...
Please help me understand what this means?

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If we go by the classical myths we can assume there were limitless possibilities for Noah; he could have clicked his heels together three times, could have summoned a giant flying stingray to fly him from place to place, or he could have driven a sled.
I'm not sure where any of this is discussed in the book of genesis (i.e. the primary source of the "classical myth"). Are you arbitrarily redefining again, or was every bible I've ever read missing the "flying stingray" part?

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In making an argument you are either going to assume that something either happened or it didn't, I suppose I should have phrased it; "hypothetically speaking since Pangea broke off into different countries years ago, etc, etc". Thank you for the lesson, no really.
Nothing you've said here addressed my point(s). You're conflating thing that did happen (per the evidence we have for them) with things that were said to have happened.
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