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View Poll Results: Kreia Vs Palpatine
Kreia 20 43.48%
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:37 AM   #1
GreyJediMaster
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Kreia Vs Palpatine?

who would win? i prefer Kreia's character loads, but ol' prune face has got a lot going for him.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:45 AM   #2
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Palpatine for sure
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Old 06-07-2009, 09:10 AM   #3
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You can't even compare them really..palpatine wud pwn kreias ass


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Old 06-07-2009, 10:11 AM   #4
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You can't even compare them really..palpatine wud pwn kreias ass
Exactly. Kreia is nothing, really.



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Old 06-07-2009, 10:22 AM   #5
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Palpatine was able to take on four Jedi and kill three of them all by himself with one saber, and Kreia had to use one saber and then three to attempt to kill one Jedi, which she failed at miserably. I think it's safe to say that Palpy would win.


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Old 06-07-2009, 11:13 AM   #6
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Let's see, two of Star Wars' greatest philosophers and manipulators.... Tough call, but I'd go with Kreia. Her mastery and understanding of the Force is far great than Palpatine's (she make predictions that reach farther into the timeline than he ever could), and I doubt that Palpatine could have defeated the Exile at all. Why? 'Cause the Exile is the second most powerful individual in Star Wars history, right after Darth Nihilus. Force Vampires always have the edge over normal Force Users, so even Kreia couldn't stop the Exile.

Plus, Palpatine relies heavily on the Force, whereas Kreia has learned to use it minimally yet precisely. Palpatine would try and raise an army of clones to kill her, but Kreia would simply sneak in and use the Force to pinch a single artery in his brain that would cause instant death.

All in all, Kreia is the predecessor of Palpatine and easily his superior. Besides, the Jedi that Palpatine killed were so pathetic that 9 year old Anakin Skywalker could have killed them just by running them over with his podracer.


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Old 06-07-2009, 02:21 PM   #7
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Think Lord of Hunger said it all

While Palpatine DID train the chosen one, he did it through deception, whereas Kreia trained Revan Sion and the Exile. Not a bad C.V.
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Old 06-07-2009, 03:26 PM   #8
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Think Lord of Hunger said it all

While Palpatine DID train the chosen one, he did it through deception, whereas Kreia trained Revan Sion and the Exile. Not a bad C.V.
Lets see Revan learnt all he could from her, Sion betrayed her and the Exile killed her. Yeah great C.V.

What about Darth Maul and Count Dooku they were also trained personally by Palpatine.


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Old 06-07-2009, 03:36 PM   #9
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Lets see Revan learnt all he could from her, Sion betrayed her and the Exile killed her. Yeah great C.V.

What about Darth Maul and Count Dooku they were also trained personally by Palpatine.
haha fair enough, though Kreia understands things that Palpatine does not. however Palpatine DID bring about the fall of the Republic

im torn
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:49 PM   #10
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Palpatine was a Sith from the get-go so no Jedi background to hinder his badassery, however Kreia could be called the original Sidious or Precursor to Palpatine since did what Palps did one up by being directly under the hero's nose the entire time. I don't know an awful lot about Palpatine's fighting style, I know that if you piss him off you could lose your head or get stabbed through the sternum so he is very efficient with a lightsaber and obviously force lightning, but on the other hand Kreia uses the whole affecting drain life that has like an instant kill even on Jedi masters, and her ability to wield 3-4 lightsabers with her mind. Tough to say, but I suppose when it all boils down it doesn't really matter what time frame the fight would take place in it would matter who has the most impressive skillset Kreia gets my vote.


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Old 06-08-2009, 04:43 PM   #11
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Her mastery and understanding of the Force is far great than Palpatine's
What evidence do you have for this?

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(she make predictions that reach farther into the timeline than he ever could)
Kreia's predictions about the Mandalorians ending was proven false. As for those which come true, it should also be noted that Kreia needed to be meditating in Trayus Core in order to see the future. I don't see any reason to believe why Palpatine wouldn't be able to do the same, if Trayus Core was at his disposal.

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and I doubt that Palpatine could have defeated the Exile at all. Why? 'Cause the Exile is the second most powerful individual in Star Wars history, right after Darth Nihilus.
Give me a break. The Exile is nothing special compared to other extraordinary Force users in other parts of the timeline. Three Jedi Masters were capable of killing her (they rendered her immobile with ease, and could have wasted her if they wanted to had Kreia not shown up).

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Force Vampires always have the edge over normal Force Users, so even Kreia couldn't stop the Exile.
Being a "Force Vampire" isn't a "win fight free card". If the Exile's Force knowledge, experience, training, and fighting skill are all inferior to Palpatine's, then what chance does she have against him? Unless she spends a decade or so in the dark side and becomes like Nihilus did, then she would have no chance. And even then, she would have to face the severe limitations and weaknesses that Nihilus' level of power brings.

Suppose Palpatine was inserted into the Battle of Telos IV in the Exile's place. How would he deal with it? He'd conjure a Dark Empire-style Force storm and obliterate Nihilus' ship.

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Plus, Palpatine relies heavily on the Force, whereas Kreia has learned to use it minimally yet precisely.
Palpatine relies on the Force... and Kreia doesn't? She admits that she relies on it. If she didn't have it, she wouldn't be able to control people's minds, kill Jedi and Sith, mask her alignment like Palpatine did, or any other such things.

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Palpatine would try and raise an army of clones to kill her
What? First of all, Palpatine doesn't need to make a clone army (or any army of any sort) in order to kill one Sith Lord. He'd kill her himself, like any other intelligent person would. He beat Yoda himself (or at least fought him to a close draw) in a fight. Why would Kreia be any more of a challenge?

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but Kreia would simply sneak in and use the Force to pinch a single artery in his brain that would cause instant death.
Nuh-uhh! Palpatine would detect her first!

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All in all, Kreia is the predecessor of Palpatine and easily his superior
Living before someone else doesn't make one a predecessor, and being someone's predecessor doesn't make one their superior.

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Besides, the Jedi that Palpatine killed were so pathetic that 9 year old Anakin Skywalker could have killed them just by running them over with his podracer.
Lame jokes aside, the four Jedi in question are often cited as being among the best swordsmen in in the Order, and their prowess is demonstrated more than once.

The only fair way to look at this is objective facts which we know about the characters in question. We know that both of them are manipulative and careful planners, we know Palpatine was a master of Force lightning, we know both of them were adept at concealing their alignment, we know Kreia was a master of telekinetic lightsaber combat, and so on. But like Revan, Malak, the Exile, and just about every single other Jedi or Sith in the KotOR series, Kreia never did anything, in the areas of accomplishments or feats of strength in the Force, that were not or could not have been done by other Force users of other eras. What has Kreia done that Palpatine has not or could not? Nothing.


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Old 06-09-2009, 05:05 PM   #12
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.....

NUFF said!!

im still torn :S
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:15 PM   #13
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Why? 'Cause the Exile is the second most powerful individual in Star Wars history, right after Darth Nihilus.
Why does everyone think everyone from the KOTOR series are the most powerful beings ever? Just cause they killed loads of people doesn't make them more powerful than the other characters. Besides, I'm sure some of the things you encounter are just game mechanics.


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Old 06-12-2009, 01:47 AM   #14
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Palpatine was able to take on four Jedi and kill three of them all by himself with one saber, and Kreia had to use one saber and then three to attempt to kill one Jedi, which she failed at miserably. I think it's safe to say that Palpy would win.
She didn't even need a saber. You see, she did eliminate three Masters with near impunity when they attempted to cut the Exile's tie to the Force. Just with the wave of her hand, they all fell dead. Palpatine couldn't even defeat even one with the Force and I would assume Kavar ranks about as powerful as Windu.

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Old 06-12-2009, 02:17 AM   #15
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She didn't even need a saber. You see, she did eliminate three Masters with near impunity when they attempted to cut the Exile's tie to the Force. Just with the wave of her hand, they all fell dead. Palpatine couldn't even defeat even one with the Force and I would assume Kavar ranks about as powerful as Windu.
Windu with two lightsabers.
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Lets see Revan learnt all he could from her, Sion betrayed her and the Exile killed her. Yeah great C.V.

What about Darth Maul and Count Dooku they were also trained personally by Palpatine.
And both were killed by Jedi Apprentices.

I'd have to go with Kreia. She would kill Palpatine, his clone armies, his clone bodies (which I think was a mistake on the part of LucasArts), and Vader.
She would probably destroy his cronies and clones without even thinking. Then she would drain, crush, and saber him all with her mind.

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Old 06-12-2009, 06:50 AM   #16
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Palpy would totally waste that ol' bag.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:54 AM   #17
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Palpy would totally waste that ol' bag.
Yeah... I haven't seen him waste any Jedi Masters one-on-one, let alone three. And those times he did, he didn't kill either one. Windu/Anakin, Yoda/escaped.

Trayus took out Vrook, ZKE, and Kavar in an instant.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:40 PM   #18
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Yeah... I haven't seen him waste any Jedi Masters one-on-one, let alone three.
So I guess those other 3 Jedi Masters just dropped dead at the sight of a red lightsaber.

As for who would win, I would say neither, because they are both old. They would simply throw out their hips, and fall over on the ground. If they were younger, they would be about the same power.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:09 PM   #19
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tough call, I put Palpatine. If only because we see him waste 4 jedi masters that were ready for him. kreia came into the room, and surprised the 3 masters.




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Old 06-12-2009, 01:13 PM   #20
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I would say neither, because they are both old. They would simply throw out their hips, and fall over on the ground.
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:59 PM   #21
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tough call, I put Palpatine. If only because we see him waste 4 jedi masters that were ready for him. kreia came into the room, and surprised the 3 masters.
Yeah... so she didn't intimidate them, sever their tie to the Force, or give a long-winded speech about their hypocritical actions before she killed them? Palpatine challenged two masters, two knights, and killed three with a lightsaber. Kriea didn't even need a lightsaber against three Council members... that goes to show how strong she was with the Force.

This is not really relevant to anything, so I'll not keep emphasizing this.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:38 PM   #22
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Let's see...

Palpatine wanted to kill the Jedi.

Kreia wanted to kill the Force.

I hope that ended all of this.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:23 PM   #23
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I think on a battle between both of them Kreia would win.



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Old 06-13-2009, 08:28 AM   #24
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oringinally i thought kreia, but im now thinking Palpatine, he totally kicks ass
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:11 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ma Ping
Why does everyone think everyone from the KOTOR series are the most powerful beings ever? Just cause they killed loads of people doesn't make them more powerful than the other characters. Besides, I'm sure some of the things you encounter are just game mechanics.
I don't think that everyone from the KOTOR series are the most powerful beings ever. I do know that the Force Vampires of the Sith Triumvirate were possibly the greatest threat to life itself.

Consider the Internet for a moment. It connects everything increasingly nowadays. It also allows for viruses and spam to be sent to people on a massive scale. Now replace the Internet with the Force, an energy field that connects all living organisms, and replace viruses with individuals who can use the Force to suck the life essence out of both Force users and non-Force users. Worse, imagine a scenario where the viruses specifically target the computers of the companies that build virus protection.

To simplify it with Internet syntax, frc vmprs ownz all n00bs!!!1!

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Originally Posted by TKA-001
What evidence do you have for this?
Consider how many rare techniques she taught the Exile:
Beast Trick
Breath Control
Telepathy
Precognition
Etc.

Then consider that she knows Lightsaber Telekinesis, mind wipes people on a regular basis with no effort, breaks into Atton's mind (the mind of someone who has trained specifically to keep people out of his mind) like the barriers weren't even there, and trained four very powerful and skilled Force users: Revan, the Exile, Sion, and Nihilus.

Palpatine: He can possess clones, predict events, mask his presence like Kreia, use Force Persuade on a scale equivalent to Revan, kill a bunch of Jedi who function on the lowest level of competence, and established the Galactic Empire.
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Kreia's predictions about the Mandalorians ending was proven false. As for those which come true, it should also be noted that Kreia needed to be meditating in Trayus Core in order to see the future. I don't see any reason to believe why Palpatine wouldn't be able to do the same, if Trayus Core was at his disposal.
Actually I accept this point. You are right here.
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Give me a break. The Exile is nothing special compared to other extraordinary Force users in other parts of the timeline. Three Jedi Masters were capable of killing her (they rendered her immobile with ease, and could have wasted her if they wanted to had Kreia not shown up).
Um...LS Exile submitted to the Jedi Masters, DS Exile kills all of them. Both kill Nihilus, Sion, and Kreia. LS Exile is a passive Force Vampire, and thus fuels herself with the excess energy of everyone around her, especially party members. DS Exile is an up and coming Darth Nihilus, the aggressive Force Vampire who could only be stopped by a fellow Force Vampire. I can't see any other Force users beating the Exile or Nihilus since individuals like Anakin, Luke, Revan, and Galen are just food for them.
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Being a "Force Vampire" isn't a "win fight free card". If the Exile's Force knowledge, experience, training, and fighting skill are all inferior to Palpatine's, then what chance does she have against him? Unless she spends a decade or so in the dark side and becomes like Nihilus did, then she would have no chance. And even then, she would have to face the severe limitations and weaknesses that Nihilus' level of power brings.
See above.
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Suppose Palpatine was inserted into the Battle of Telos IV in the Exile's place. How would he deal with it? He'd conjure a Dark Empire-style Force storm and obliterate Nihilus' ship.
The Force Storm would likely be absorbed by Nihilus, and even if the Ravager was destroyed Nihilus would likely survive. Again, powerful Force users are just food for Vampires.
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Palpatine relies on the Force... and Kreia doesn't? She admits that she relies on it. If she didn't have it, she wouldn't be able to control people's minds, kill Jedi and Sith, mask her alignment like Palpatine did, or any other such things.
Considering her teachings are to avoid its use and maintain real life skills, I'd say she relies on it less than Palpatine. In fact, she teaches the Exile how to ground her Force powers in real life skills. Kreia likely has very high awareness, stealth, and treat injury skills.

Meanwhile, Palpatine has no problem with blasting someone with Force Lighting whenever he wants to. He does it to a point where he doesn't realize his apprentice is have a major change of heart. Kreia would have simply killed Luke and then detected Vader's conflict and use a mind wipe on him.
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What? First of all, Palpatine doesn't need to make a clone army (or any army of any sort) in order to kill one Sith Lord. He'd kill her himself, like any other intelligent person would. He beat Yoda himself (or at least fought him to a close draw) in a fight. Why would Kreia be any more of a challenge?
'Cause beating the Jedi of that era is not a challenge. They lost all of their sense of vigilance and discipline after the Ruusan Reformation. Also, it is very common for the Sith to defeat Jedi who adhere to the ideals of the Jedi Code. As we've seen in the Movies (Lucas' Holy Star Wars Canon), the Sith are usually defeated by Jedi who decide **** the Code and tap into their emotions. Obi Wan does it, Luke does it, Anakin does it, etc.. Yoda, the height of the Jedi Order at the time, could barely stand his ground again Palpatine. There is no way Yoda could have stood for a second against Kreia, especially since Palpatine either toys with his prey or deliberately looses to turn whinny emo kids into badass Sith Lords like Vader.
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Nuh-uhh! Palpatine would detect her first!
Uh...okay then.
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Living before someone else doesn't make one a predecessor, and being someone's predecessor doesn't make one their superior.
Considering that they are so much a like, I'd say that Kreia is Palpatine's predecessor. Also note that Kreia attempted to do (and nearly succeeded) in something far grander than even Palpatine could imagine: the death of the Force.
Quote:
Lame jokes aside, the four Jedi in question are often cited as being among the best swordsmen in in the Order, and their prowess is demonstrated more than once.
Again, being a Jedi Master in that specific time is not a compliment. A Padawan from Luke's new order could have easily kicked any of those Jedi's ass.
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The only fair way to look at this is objective facts which we know about the characters in question. We know that both of them are manipulative and careful planners, we know Palpatine was a master of Force lightning, we know both of them were adept at concealing their alignment, we know Kreia was a master of telekinetic lightsaber combat, and so on. But like Revan, Malak, the Exile, and just about every single other Jedi or Sith in the KotOR series, Kreia never did anything, in the areas of accomplishments or feats of strength in the Force, that were not or could not have been done by other Force users of other eras. What has Kreia done that Palpatine has not or could not? Nothing.
Never did anything? Are you kidding me? Kreia's students wiped out the Jedi Order, and nearly wiped out life itself. Revan built a Sith Empire that was likely the role model for Palpatine's (we know that Palpatine's Stormtrooper uniforms drew inspiration from the Sith Trooper Armor of Revan's Empire), and convinced millions of loyal Jedi and Republic soldiers to abandon their cause and serve him (whereas Palpatine convinced thousands of corrupt Senators to institute a government the people of the Core Worlds already wanted...not that hard). Sion achieved the form of immortality that most Sith have dreams about (while Palpatine had to jump from Clone to Clone to survive). Nihilus achieved a level of power unparalleled, literally becoming a force of nature rather than a person (while Palpatine had difficulty controlling his Force Storm). The Exile caused about 70% of the Sith Triumvirates casualties (most of which were Force Vampires), averted a Civil War, saved an entire Outer Rim community, destabilized crime in the Y'Toub system, and survived the Tomb of Ludo Kreesh (something most Jedi easily failed to do). Kreia was the one who made all of this possible.


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Old 06-14-2009, 03:40 AM   #26
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Some tidbits...

Anyone with knowledge of how to drain life energy can stand up to and resist the draining attacks of someone like Nihilus, the rarity of said knowledge is why Nihilus seemed so unstoppable. I do recall that Drain Life Energy was one of Palapatine's listed powers.

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The Force Storm would likely be absorbed by Nihilus, and even if the Ravager was destroyed Nihilus would likely survive. Again, powerful Force users are just food for Vampires.
Incorrect it would destroy him... you can't absorb a Force Storm FYI. Vampire or not that powers manifestation can destroy anything it touches, even the conjurer if they lose concentration.


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Old 06-14-2009, 04:20 AM   #27
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Supposition: I wonder if Vaapad could reflect Force Drain back. That would mean Mace>Nihilius. Otherwise bye-bye mace.

@ thread: I'd go with kreia b/c she was all that much closer to the original sith. Palpatine may have been a culmination of a near millenium of Bane's order/dynasty but even that was only so close to the original sith.


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Old 06-14-2009, 04:35 AM   #28
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Palpatine was a Sith from the get-go so no Jedi background to hinder his badassery, however Kreia could be called the original Sidious or Precursor to Palpatine since did what Palps did one up by being directly under the hero's nose the entire time.
Perhaps, but Sidious was able to perform under the noses of the entire Jedi Council, undermine the Republic and control an army that defeated and drove hundreds to thousands of jedi to their deaths. Of course his arrogance proved to be his downfall in the end....

Since I'm not totally aware of all DI's talents vs Kreia's, I'll have to say undecided for now.


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Old 06-14-2009, 12:41 PM   #29
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As I said my vote was for Kreia, but that crazy witch wanted to destroy the force, I think she is stronger than Palpi, but provably I would support him on battle if I where a Sith



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Old 06-14-2009, 04:13 PM   #30
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Incorrect it would destroy him... you can't absorb a Force Storm FYI. Vampire or not that powers manifestation can destroy anything it touches, even the conjurer if they lose concentration.
Source?

From what we know about the Force, it is an energy field. This means that Force Powers are based upon a form of energy. Nihilus consumes any of that energy he comes across, so why would he not be able to consume a Force Storm?

However, I did not know that Drain Life was one of Palpatine's abilities. I'll have to check that out. Still, there is the problem of Nihilus' power magnitude and whether Palpatine could stand up to it. The Exile specifically won because she was another Wound like Nihilus (thus starving him) and she had Visas further stress Nihilus by disrupting their bond. The combination along with the fact that Nihilus was already pretty low on Jedi burgers was enough to defeat him, but barely. Something tells me the Galaxy was pretty dang lucky.

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Old 06-14-2009, 08:38 PM   #31
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I agree with LoH and also if you think about it Revan was technically the chosen one too. He fits the description so therefor Krea also trained the chosen one. Kreia also killed more things in actual combat, Sidious ordered people to kill his enemies and the only people you actually see him kill are the jedi masters in EP3




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Old 06-14-2009, 09:39 PM   #32
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Palpatine could either out dual her, or just force lighting her to a crisp.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:54 AM   #33
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here's a thought - what if they joined forces? obviously thats impossible, but between them, with the trayus core and the death star?
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:39 AM   #34
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Source?
Dark Empire Comics / Dark empire Sourcebook for the D6 WEG RPG.

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Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger View Post
From what we know about the Force, it is an energy field. This means that Force Powers are based upon a form of energy.
From the sourcebook (Pp. 70)...

Effect: This power is perhaps the single most destructive Force power ever known. the Power allows the Jedi/Sith to twist the space-time continuum to create vast storms of force. The power also allows limited control of these storms. Capable of creating annihilating vortexes, the storms can swallow whole fleets of spaceships or tear the surfaces off of worlds.

In the comic (Scene also reprinted in Sourcebook for RPG) it rends anything it touches, it consumes Palapatine and his SSD Eclipse and fleet when he loses control of his own storm.

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Nihilus consumes any of that energy he comes across, so why would he not be able to consume a Force Storm?
Because it isn't life energy/living force type field it isn't comprised of what he feeds upon. It is a manifestation of pure rage and hate not life but a destructive death field.

Nihilus consumes life not death.

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However, I did not know that Drain Life was one of Palpatine's abilities. I'll have to check that out.
It is according to most materials I have available...


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Old 06-15-2009, 11:27 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by RedHawke View Post
Dark Empire Comics / Dark empire Sourcebook for the D6 WEG RPG.


From the sourcebook (Pp. 70)...

Effect: This power is perhaps the single most destructive Force power ever known. the Power allows the Jedi/Sith to twist the space-time continuum to create vast storms of force. The power also allows limited control of these storms. Capable of creating annihilating vortexes, the storms can swallow whole fleets of spaceships or tear the surfaces off of worlds.

In the comic (Scene also reprinted in Sourcebook for RPG) it rends anything it touches, it consumes Palapatine and his SSD Eclipse and fleet when he loses control of his own storm.


Because it isn't life energy/living force type field it isn't comprised of what he feeds upon. It is a manifestation of pure rage and hate not life but a destructive death field.

Nihilus consumes life not death.
But something causes it, and that something is the Force. Nihilus would essentially be able to consume the Force Energy that is starting it up.

However, I'd agree that once it was unleashed Nihilus might not survived...provided that Sidious can keep it targeted at him and not get consumed before hand.
Quote:
It is according to most materials I have available...
Could you cite a few? I looked up Sidious on Wookiepedia (which is actually quite accurate and thorough) but I couldn't find Drain Life listed as one of his abilities.

To be honest, it doesn't even sound like an ability that fits his profile. When he wants someone dead, he just blasts them with Lightning, and when he wants someone to obey him, he uses Dominate Mind. He doesn't need to practice anything remotely close to Force Vampiricy to get what he wants. Kreia primarily used it because she gained a limited version of Nihilus' aggressive Vampiricy from loosing and regaining her connection to the Force, and secondarily for the purpose of showing people like the Jedi Masters what it means to loose the Force.


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Old 06-16-2009, 03:26 AM   #36
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But something causes it, and that something is the Force. Nihilus would essentially be able to consume the Force Energy that is starting it up.
You are mis-interpreting what Nihilus can do here, he can't consume the dark side of the force or death, he feeds on life so he can't do what you think he does. He doesn't just gobble up all types of energy.

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Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger View Post
However, I'd agree that once it was unleashed Nihilus might not survived...provided that Sidious can keep it targeted at him and not get consumed before hand.
Nihilus isn't capable of creating a field of Force Harmony so being able to disrupt one such as Sidious is unlikely. It took both Luke and Leia together to interrupt Sidious.

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Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger View Post
Could you cite a few? I looked up Sidious on Wookiepedia (which is actually quite accurate and thorough) but I couldn't find Drain Life listed as one of his abilities.
The same aforementioned sourcebook, all subsequent writings of him in the RPG's and comics and the Dark Empire comics... see you have to have the ability to drain life to be able to Transfer your consciousness like he can do as it is a pre-requisite ability, one of many.

The Base Star Wars D6 RPG books stated that Palapatine possessed a vast array of Sith knowledge and powers, some unlisted as he has had decades to study and practice them. They added them as the EU pumped out stories.

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Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger View Post
To be honest, it doesn't even sound like an ability that fits his profile. When he wants someone dead, he just blasts them with Lightning, and when he wants someone to obey him, he uses Dominate Mind. He doesn't need to practice anything remotely close to Force Vampiricy to get what he wants. Kreia primarily used it because she gained a limited version of Nihilus' aggressive Vampiricy from loosing and regaining her connection to the Force, and secondarily for the purpose of showing people like the Jedi Masters what it means to loose the Force.
The Emperor is much more than you saw on film, while some of the EU drags it into the realms of impossibility the Emperor did use the people under him to fuel his power and he did enhance their abilities with his powers.

The ability of Drain Life Energy actually ties into the tale he tells Anaken about Darth Plageus, who had to know how to Drain Life Energy to sustain it. So he did have access to the power. If the prevalent theory of Plageus being Sidious master holds water.


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Old 06-16-2009, 07:26 AM   #37
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Perhaps, but Sidious was able to perform under the noses of the entire Jedi Council, undermine the Republic and control an army that defeated and drove hundreds to thousands of jedi to their deaths. Of course his arrogance proved to be his downfall in the end....

Since I'm not totally aware of all DI's talents vs Kreia's, I'll have to say undecided for now.
And Kriea was able to manipulate all of the Exile's companions without the Exile knowing it. She clearly could hide it from the one she shared a Force bond with, which must means she's very clever at deception and manipulation.

I've voted for her because of how easily she took out three Jedi Masters. Luke and Leia may have been powerful, but they were not at all at the level of any of those masters when Palpatine was beaten by them. It was not a struggle at all for her, which is why I voted for her. If Palpatine just executed those four Jedi who confronted him, then I would lean in his direction. But he used a lightsaber and Windu actually beat him with his own lightning attacks. Not that powerful to me.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:46 AM   #38
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Palpatine would win hands down. He was more powerful than Kreia and used the foce in a far greater variety of ways.

The three masters Kreia killed had all left the foce behind at least in part, in order to hide their presence from the Sith. They then exerted a significant amount energy to trap the Exile, forfitting their ability to defend themselves from Kreia.

Kreia used three lightsabers with her mind, but only at the heart of one of the most strongly darkside planets in the history of the galaxy! The trayus core is probably similar to (though perhaps not as powerful as) the Valley of the Jedi. It fed her powers, and expanded her abilities.

Kreia was able to hide her alignmment and use a form of force camoflauge, but Sion detected her and cut off her hand without breaking a sweat!

Palpatine clouded the force (the Shroud of the darkside) throughout the entire galaxy! More than that, he singlehandedly diminished the entire Jedi Orders ability to use the force.

Palpatine's skills in battle weren't directly tied to his abilities with the lightsaber. He used his powers to prevent the other Jedi Masters from sensing his actions. Kreia said that if you took the force away from a Jedi they would be like children, or something along those lines, that they depend on the force and if you gave them a lightsaber without it they would be useless. If you watch the Jed Masters in the movie, they are extremely awkward hardly even attempting to block Palpatines attacks. Windu and Yoda were powerful enough to break through this power, and when engaged in a duel both were more than a match for Palpatine. So any arguments about their skills with the lightsaber have little weight.


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Old 06-16-2009, 12:02 PM   #39
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You are mis-interpreting what Nihilus can do here, he can't consume the dark side of the force or death, he feeds on life so he can't do what you think he does. He doesn't just gobble up all types of energy.
Hmm...I will have to look that up. This aspect of our respective theories greatly depends on our understanding of what the Force is frankly made of. I will point out, however, that Yoda was able to absorb Force Lightning with no ill effects I'm aware of.
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Nihilus isn't capable of creating a field of Force Harmony so being able to disrupt one such as Sidious is unlikely. It took both Luke and Leia together to interrupt Sidious.
I meant in terms of Nihilus using his Vampiricy on Sidious. The moment Sidious starts going Super Saiyan and preparing his Force Storm, his guard will be dropped and this would allow Nihilus to reach in and suck the life right out of him. And boy would he reach in, a Force User of that power would be a three course meal at best.
Quote:
The same aforementioned sourcebook, all subsequent writings of him in the RPG's and comics and the Dark Empire comics... see you have to have the ability to drain life to be able to Transfer your consciousness like he can do as it is a pre-requisite ability, one of many.
Because? I don't understand the mechanic here. Drain Life is the ability to leech life energy from one person to another. Transfer Consciousness is the ability to move a spirit from one host to another.
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The Base Star Wars D6 RPG books stated that Palapatine possessed a vast array of Sith knowledge and powers, some unlisted as he has had decades to study and practice them. They added them as the EU pumped out stories.
Well this implies that Drain Life would be among his abilities, though again Palpatine's character is contrary to the sort of persona that actively uses and expands upon that ability.

For one thing, wouldn't drain life help with the aging effect of other Dark Side abilities? Just speculating.
Quote:
The Emperor is much more than you saw on film, while some of the EU drags it into the realms of impossibility the Emperor did use the people under him to fuel his power and he did enhance their abilities with his powers.
If so he'd be a living God, or at least on the scale of Nihilus in that regard. It would be like the Exile using her passive Vampiricy on 1,000,000 clones of each of her companions. 1 crew was enough to give her to power to take on Nihilus, Sion, and Kreia, the scale you (or rather the EU) are (is) suggesting for Palpatine would make invincible. However, it is not entirely implausible for him to have that level of access given that he used Battle Meditation on whole lot of people....
Quote:
The ability of Drain Life Energy actually ties into the tale he tells Anaken about Darth Plageus, who had to know how to Drain Life Energy to sustain it. So he did have access to the power. If the prevalent theory of Plageus being Sidious master holds water.
Okay, this is also new: Midiclorian Manipulation requiring Drain Life? It would explain Plageus' downfall in the story....
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Originally Posted by rictu135
Palpatine clouded the force (the Shroud of the darkside) throughout the entire galaxy! More than that, he singlehandedly diminished the entire Jedi Orders ability to use the force.
Wait, the Jedi Order could use the Force? That's news to me.

Just kidding. But seriously, using the Shroud of the Dark Side on that version of the Jedi Order is not difficult. They were already, for one, predisposed to blindness towards such a version of the Sith Order (supposedly they were constantly gearing up for another war with the long deceased Brotherhood of Darkness of Lord Kaan, just as KOTOR's Jedi were constantly addressing the defeated Sith Brotherhood of Exar Kun while the Mandalorians were ravaging the Galaxy and continued to do so as they were being crushed by Revan's Sith (who were fueled by both the might of the Infinite Empire and the teachings of Malachor and Korriban).
Quote:
Palpatine's skills in battle weren't directly tied to his abilities with the lightsaber. He used his powers to prevent the other Jedi Masters from sensing his actions. Kreia said that if you took the force away from a Jedi they would be like children, or something along those lines, that they depend on the force and if you gave them a lightsaber without it they would be useless. If you watch the Jed Masters in the movie, they are extremely awkward hardly even attempting to block Palpatines attacks. Windu and Yoda were powerful enough to break through this power, and when engaged in a duel both were more than a match for Palpatine. So any arguments about their skills with the lightsaber have little weight.
Whether or not Windu was powerful enough to break through Palpatine's power is actually in the air. I, like many others, believe that Palpatine was deliberately loosing just to create the situation where Anakin could be shaped into Vader and also use fake evidence of a Jedi insurrection to establish the Galactic Empire.

As for Yoda, I have a feeling that Palpatine was toying with him as well, but not quite so much.

As for the other Jedi Masters, again they were anticipating Kaan's Sith, brutal Marauders, rather than Bane's Sith, beings of shadows. They were also probably preparing for other versions like Revan's Sith, endless armies marching by the will of a single brilliant strategist or a brutal overlord, Exar Kun's Sith, apprentices backstabbing Masters, or Naga Sadow's Ancient/True Sith, superior masters of the Force who had just experience a golden age and were fueled by their Dark Lord's battle mediation. The best preparation would have been against the Assassins of the Sith Triumvirate, because at least both they and Bane's Sith waged a war of secrecy and manipulation. It's all tactics, and excuse to compare the different awesome Sith factions.


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Old 06-16-2009, 01:25 PM   #40
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Lord of Hunger made some excellent points on that one. Especially on how Palps was able to defeat the Jedi so easily. The old Jedi Order stayed pretty much the same throughout its lifetime. The Sith order changed many times in order to adapt. The Jedi refused to open themselves up to new philosophy and points of view.

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