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View Poll Results: Star Forge or Death Star?
Star Forge 26 53.06%
Death Star 23 46.94%
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Thread: Death Star vs Star Forge?
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:37 PM   #41
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I'd say its a draw. You have the Death Star and its Giant Laser, but the Star Forge has its energy field and the infinite ship/robot/weapon spawner. More than likely, Sidious would personally power down the field, then he'd be on the first ship to the death star, which rolled its way through space to used the giant laser and blow up the Forge or the star. But teh Forge already would've created hundreds of thousands, if not millions, or ships and robots, enabling them to completely obliterate the Death Star, because having millions of fighters at your disposal is better than a tractor beam and a few TIE's. Then again, The star forge was destroyed 4000 years before the Death Star was an inkling in a mans mind. IWN.


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Old 06-23-2009, 05:22 PM   #42
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Another factor to consider:

The Star Forge could build the components of a Death Star, as well the droids and fleet necessary to assemble one.

Hey Vader, it's Revan! Death Star? I just finished building my fifth!


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Old 06-23-2009, 06:26 PM   #43
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Another factor to consider:

The Star Forge could build the components of a Death Star, as well the droids and fleet necessary to assemble one.

Hey Vader, it's Revan! Death Star? I just finished building my fifth!
Brilliant. So the Star Forge is worth as much as X Death Stars. So if you destroy one, there will always be more. I'd love to see how many Luke can destroy.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:18 PM   #44
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And if anyone starts complaining about manpower, then the DS would lose hands down, as it requires a million people to operate it. That wasn't a limiting factor for the Sith when Revan was in charge.
Could you clarify this for me. Are you saying that when Revans was DLOTS that man power wasn't a problem for Revan? But was a problem for the GE/DS?
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:28 PM   #45
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Well since everyone was making an unreasonable argument about pilots, I figured that it should be a double bladed edge. Manpower isn't a limiting factor, yet people were making it such.
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Old 06-23-2009, 10:09 PM   #46
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you must also consider that the radacans(sp?) were more technologically advanced then the republic at the time. The radacans(sp?) are similar to the forerunners of Halo. so the 4000 year gap in technology is a little bit less than one would consider.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:50 PM   #47
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Welcome to Lucasforums, I mark i.

I think that the technology isn't a factor, considering that you probably could duplicate anything and everything within the Star Forge.

The issue I see is not raw destructive power, but how much any one of these stations could do to influence the course of the Galaxy. There really is no equal to the Forge, but the Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, and world devastators all are superior to the Death Star.

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Old 06-24-2009, 12:09 AM   #48
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^Good point. Seriously. Do you really think Star Forge could duplicate the Death Star? They may have the resources (which I really doubt), but they don't even have the intelligence to do that. And the issue is about Star Forge vs Death Star in a battle, look at the title. Try again.


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Old 06-24-2009, 01:01 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger
Hey Vader, it's Revan! Death Star? I just finished building my fifth!

I agree with Lord of Hunger and Darth_Yuthura on that account. Plus, if the Star Forge wasn't producing droid piloted ships during the games, that's just because they had more than enough Sith Troopers to pilot them. If it needed to, the Star Forge would have produced fighters which were probably similar to CIS Droid fighters to defend itself.

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Old 06-24-2009, 01:08 AM   #50
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Another factor to consider:

The Star Forge could build the components of a Death Star, as well the droids and fleet necessary to assemble one.

Hey Vader, it's Revan! Death Star? I just finished building my fifth!
No. SF don't have the intelligence and technology to build something 4000 years ahead of his time. Fail, try again.

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Originally Posted by Te Mirdala Mand'alor View Post

I agree with Lord of Hunger and Darth_Yuthura on that account. Plus, if the Star Forge wasn't producing droid piloted ships during the games, that's just because they had more than enough Sith Troopers to pilot them. If it needed to, the Star Forge would have produced fighters which were probably similar to CIS Droid fighters to defend itself.
Nope. Prove it that SF can create technology 4000 years ahead of him. Otherwise, you fail. DS wins this.

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Compare this to the F-22 Raptor. It is THE most capable fighter in the world. You can engage it against five F-15's and it would expect victory, but it can't replace five F-15's.

The Death Star can wipe out planets, yes; but the Star Forge can do the same thing. Only it can do it without limit. The Death Star needs an Empire to operate and fuel it where the Star Forge is powered by a star! Nothing beats that kind of energy.

And if anyone starts complaining about manpower, then the DS would lose hands down, as it requires a million people to operate it. That wasn't a limiting factor for the Sith when Revan was in charge.
DS destroys a planet faster, and so will the DS do the same to SF. The shield of Executor has the power of a medium star if I remembered correctly. Fail. Try again.

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you must also consider that the radacans(sp?) were more technologically advanced then the republic at the time. The radacans(sp?) are similar to the forerunners of Halo. so the 4000 year gap in technology is a little bit less than one would consider.
First, sorry about the quadruple post. The number of weapons that Leviathan has is small compared to Executor's. That's a big gap in 4000 years of technology. Fail. Try again.

Combined quad post. No multiple posts please edit your last post or use the multi-quote feature, thanks. -RH


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Old 06-24-2009, 01:17 AM   #51
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Ultimate Vader: You have quadruple posted. You are on the DS's side. You fail. And therefore, the DS fails.
The Star Forge was an entity of the Dark Side. It was essentially a living thing. The Dark Side of the Force has no technological limitations. DS=Fail.

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Old 06-24-2009, 03:14 AM   #52
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You do remember this is a vs thread, right? Not a who's cooler? You never give me proof how SF will destroy DS. That's why you fail.


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Old 06-24-2009, 04:22 AM   #53
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I agree with Darth_Yuthura and Lord of Hunger. The Star Forge could surely make things 4000 years ahead of its time, since it was POWERED BY A SUN. Just give some schematics and bam! You have your fleet of Death Stars. And to those who say that it takes long to build a fleet for the Star Forge: It has already been said many times that the Star Forge is indeed building stuff at an incredible rate (300 % being just what Malak could achieve, at the time).


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You do remember this is a vs thread, right? Not a who's cooler? You never give me proof how SF will destroy DS. That's why you fail.
He/She gave you proof alright, the Star Forge will produce Death Stars to kill the Death Star. Problem solved. And as for your quadruple post, it is you who fail. We want proof that the Star Forge could not produce things from 4000 years into future. And SF could get the intel to build a Death Star, and Executors. FAIL! Try again.
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Old 06-24-2009, 04:36 AM   #54
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^You say SF can produce things from 4000 years into future. Prove it. Because I never see SF do it. And I doubt SF can ever do it. Why do I have to prove that SF can't produce something like that? Do you ever see SF create something from 4000 years in the future? Show it. Don't make insane imagination. Just admit it. Seriously, I like the idea of SF, but please don't be ridiculous. Saying like "and SF could get the intel to build Death Star, and Executors" are absolutely laughable. How can SF do that if SF is already destroyed by DS' superlaser in less then a minute. And you really need to watch the Original Trilogy again. See how fast does DS fire the superlaser.

Powered by a sun is cool, but that doesn't make SF wins in a fight agains DS. Look at the facts. Hoam.


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Old 06-24-2009, 05:24 AM   #55
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For that matter, do we really know how large the SF is? We saw how it looked compared to a star. It probably was larger than any planet to siphon energy from a star. How can anyone be sure that the Death Star's superlaser would really destroy it? Maybe it had shields that could withstand the enormous heat produced by the star and could withstand a shot by the superlaser. The Republic ships probably had to penetrate its shields in order to bombard its surface, but beyond the shields...

And I made a point that there was never anything else like the star forge except for the World Devastators. The Galaxy Gun could destroy the Star Forge. The Sun Crusher could destroy it. The World Devastators were regarded as more deadly than the DS because it turned an enemy's own resources against them, so it would be logical to assume a superfactory would always be a greater asset than a superlaser.
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Old 06-24-2009, 05:56 AM   #56
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For that matter, do we really know how large the SF is? We saw how it looked compared to a star. It probably was larger than any planet to siphon energy from a star. How can anyone be sure that the Death Star's superlaser would really destroy it? Maybe it had shields that could withstand the enormous heat produced by the star and could withstand a shot by the superlaser. The Republic ships probably had to penetrate its shields in order to bombard its surface, but beyond the shields...

And I made a point that there was never anything else like the star forge except for the World Devastators. The Galaxy Gun could destroy the Star Forge. The Sun Crusher could destroy it. The World Devastators were regarded as more deadly than the DS because it turned an enemy's own resources against them, so it would be logical to assume a superfactory would always be a greater asset than a superlaser.
For the size of the Star Forge:
Show spoiler

This isn't really the best pic, but you can see some bigger white points. Those are fighters. So the Star Forge isn't that big.
There is no shield what can deflect a Superlaser. Even if somehow the Star Forge is not destroyed, it's capacitiy drops to 1%. And allright let's say that the SF has some INCREDIBLE shield and the Superlaser, can't destroy it. Then the DS targets the star and there is no more energy for the SF. That means no shield, no fighters, no cruisers and no DS energy. The SF is defeated.

And why do you talk about Galaxy Gun or Sun Crusher? They are not even involved in the battle.

The SF IS agreater asset than the Death Star, but that doesn't mean it can survive it



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Old 06-24-2009, 06:17 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura View Post
For that matter, do we really know how large the SF is? We saw how it looked compared to a star. It probably was larger than any planet to siphon energy from a star. How can anyone be sure that the Death Star's superlaser would really destroy it? Maybe it had shields that could withstand the enormous heat produced by the star and could withstand a shot by the superlaser. The Republic ships probably had to penetrate its shields in order to bombard its surface, but beyond the shields...

And I made a point that there was never anything else like the star forge except for the World Devastators. The Galaxy Gun could destroy the Star Forge. The Sun Crusher could destroy it. The World Devastators were regarded as more deadly than the DS because it turned an enemy's own resources against them, so it would be logical to assume a superfactory would always be a greater asset than a superlaser.
Hm. I never heard SF is more durable than a planet. So I'm pretty sure SF will be OHKOed by DS using the superlaser.

Yuthura, please don't talk about maybe. In a respect thread I accept maybe, but in a vs thread, I accept facts. And the conclusions are:

1. DS can destroy a planet with a superlaser blast.
2. SF never shown the shield that can withstand a planet-blasting superlaser.
3. SF don't have the time to search for DS' weakness and devise a plan to destroy it. Remember how fast does the superlaser fire.

Unless you give me proof that SF has that kind of shield. Please. Don't make baseless assumption.

But stay cool man, it's only a thread after all. I'm just giving my thought.


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Old 06-24-2009, 06:42 AM   #58
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Hm. I never heard SF is more durable than a planet. So I'm pretty sure SF will be OHKOed by DS using the superlaser.

Yuthura, please don't talk about maybe. In a respect thread I accept maybe, but in a vs thread, I accept facts. And the conclusions are:

1. DS can destroy a planet with a superlaser blast.
2. SF never shown the shield that can withstand a planet-blasting superlaser.
3. SF don't have the time to search for DS' weakness and devise a plan to destroy it. Remember how fast does the superlaser fire.

Unless you give me proof that SF has that kind of shield. Please. Don't make baseless assumption.

But stay cool man, it's only a thread after all. I'm just giving my thought.
Wouldn't the SF's disruptor shield disable the death star?
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:52 AM   #59
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Look at the pic again. The Star Forge is WAY in the background. If you were to consider the size of the star compared to that of the Star Forge, it is at least the size of a very large planet.

I brought in the Galaxy Gun because it shows that there is something better than the DS. Show me something that out performs the Star Forge. And take into consideration that the poll is NOT which would destroy the other, what the conditions are that the battle takes place, or what would be the competition in which they face each other (importance in war or ability to attack)
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:02 AM   #60
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^You say SF can produce things from 4000 years into future. Prove it. Because I never see SF do it. And I doubt SF can ever do it. Why do I have to prove that SF can't produce something like that? Do you ever see SF create something from 4000 years in the future? Show it. Don't make insane imagination. Just admit it. Seriously, I like the idea of SF, but please don't be ridiculous. Saying like "and SF could get the intel to build Death Star, and Executors" are absolutely laughable. How can SF do that if SF is already destroyed by DS' superlaser in less then a minute. And you really need to watch the Original Trilogy again. See how fast does DS fire the superlaser.

Powered by a sun is cool, but that doesn't make SF wins in a fight agains DS. Look at the facts. Hoam.
Why wouldn't it be able to produce things from 4000 years into the future. You say that you have never seen it, like that is proof, and the same thing goes for the shield. In case you didn't notice, in the OT shields are invisible, and so are they in KOTOR, except for personal energy shields. So I would like PROOF that SF can't do any of these things, you talk all the time about proof, without really PROVING anything.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:04 AM   #61
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This is DS vs SF. And look in YouTube, search for Star Wars Episode IV if you want proof. DS destroying that planet is a good proof that DS will win a battle against SF. You don't give anything to proof that SF's shield can withstand planet-busting superlaser. You don't give anything that describe how the SF will destroy DS.

Seriously, think again. DS wins here. Why don't you admit it?


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Old 06-24-2009, 07:05 AM   #62
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Show me something that out performs the Star Forge. And take into consideration that the poll is NOT which would destroy the other, what the conditions are that the battle takes place, or what would be the competition in which they face each other (importance in war or ability to attack)
Maybe the Star Forge is more important than the Death Star in battles, because it can create fleets in a small amount of time. But if those Space Stations were to destroy each other, DS would win.



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Old 06-24-2009, 07:13 AM   #63
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Here's proof that DS will destroy SF in A BATTLE:
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YouTube Video


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Old 06-24-2009, 07:17 AM   #64
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This is DS vs SF. And look in YouTube, search for Star Wars Episode IV if you want proof. DS destroying that planet is a good proof that DS will win a battle against SF. You don't give anything to proof that SF's shield can withstand planet-busting superlaser. You don't give anything that describe how the SF will destroy DS.

Seriously, think again. DS wins here. Why don't you admit it?
I never said that the DS could not destroy a whole planet. I have seen the OT after all. And once again, start proving that the SF didn't have an incredibly strong shield. And I won't admit that DS would win, because that's not a complete certainty. Just like it's not certain that SF will win, even if it has lots of ships, and an incredible produce rate. So give me some proof, or we can just say that I am correct.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:20 AM   #65
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Seriously, think again. DS wins here. Why don't you admit it?
Because the question is quite open to interpretation. If you put two sides against one another, one with a SF and the other with a DS; the one with the SF would conquer the other with impunity.

Whether the DS can destroy the SF or not is irrelevant. The SF could destroy everything that the DS depends upon to operate. And at that point, the DS would no longer be able to function because it depends upon fuel and resources where as the SF provides for entire empires.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:28 AM   #66
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The DS can destroy the SF is relevant because this is DS vs SF. It it's: what's better in conquering the galaxy, SF or DS, I would gladly say SF.

It's kinda useless debating this, I'm using Marvel Versus Boards way of debating, I guess that's why you people don't get it.


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Old 06-24-2009, 08:40 AM   #67
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I never said that the DS could not destroy a whole planet. I have seen the OT after all. And once again, start proving that the SF didn't have an incredibly strong shield.
I don't think it had one and if did, it couldn't be that powerful. During the attack o the star forge, the sith were pwning the republic until Bastilla switched sides and then the remaining republic ships that broke through the lines were able to destroy it, and it was rather quick too so I don't see how it had it's own personal energy shield. The Empire's star destroyers are way more powerful then the 315m cruisers so if they were to break through the line the it would be destroyed faster. So if 4000 yr. old republic crusiers can destroy it then a battlestation with enough power to destroy a planet (those republic cruisers/fighters don't have that type of combined) firepower can certainly do the same.

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Well since everyone was making an unreasonable argument about pilots, I figured that it should be a double bladed edge. Manpower isn't a limiting factor, yet people were making it such.
Um, it is a factor. The star forge could produce a fleet that is capable of taking over the galaxy. But it needs people to use them. I'd have already posted on how the sith fighter pilots have to be human. And when you are on the Leviathan it was clear that there were more humans in control then droids. And the GE has alot more man power at it's disposal then Revan/Malak's sith empire ever had.

So this notion (which you haven't stated so this isnt directed at you)n that the star forge can produce droid controlled ships has to stop. Just because we see it 4000 yrs. in the future doesn't give you the right to make up the exact same scenario happening here. Because when we start making scenarios like this up then, the thread loses its credibility and this one didn't have much at the start.

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I agree with Lord of Hunger and Darth_Yuthura on that account. Plus, if the Star Forge wasn't producing droid piloted ships during the games, that's just because they had more than enough Sith Troopers to pilot them. If it needed to, the Star Forge would have produced fighters which were probably similar to CIS Droid fighters to defend itself.
This is the type type of stuff I'm talking about, you can't use could haves, should haves scenarios because then same can go for the other side. I could just as easily say that, Palpatine upon hearing of the SF decides to make a modern SF in the deep core, and while the GE>>>>>>Rakatan's who built it, the scenario still has an aura of ridiculous to it. And this why we have use the known facts.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:51 AM   #68
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Because the question is quite open to interpretation. If you put two sides against one another, one with a SF and the other with a DS; the one with the SF would conquer the other with impunity.
I assume you mean the the other side of the galaxy. And this is VERY debatable because then this thread could become the Galactic Empire vs Revan/Malak's sith empire, then we would have numerous scenarios to have consider such as the military geniuses such as Thrawn, other superweapons such as the sun crusher,the sith academy on korriban, the size of the said empires (which affects how many people they can recruit), not to mention the technology gap would come into play for both sides.

Quote:
And take into consideration that the poll is NOT which would destroy the other, what the conditions are that the battle takes place, or what would be the competition in which they face each other (importance in war or ability to attack)
You can't speak for the OP, none of us here can.

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i know, i know, the Death Star can blow up planets, but the Star forge has forcey stuff. The Star Forge controlled by Malak, vs Death Star Mk 1 controlled by Vader?

(Malak would probably be overcome by the Forge's power, unlike Revan, who only used it to his limits. Whereas Vader woould be more objective, but he wouldnt have the Infinite Fleet)
To me it sounds like a single battle where both "super weapons" were present and I think we agree that the Death Star would blow it up.

If this is a major military campaign then whole thing is thrown out of the ballpark and I suggest a new thread would need to made, with a fresh set of rules and the scenarios be set in the first post.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:35 AM   #69
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Agreed with Hord, especially on the last argument, "If this is a major military campaign then whole thing is thrown out of the ballpark and I suggest a new thread would need to made, with a fresh set of rules and the scenarios be set in the first post."

These people really need to look again at the condition and battle format given by TS.


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Old 06-24-2009, 10:22 AM   #70
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Hey guys, that's not that serious! Let's just say that the SF creates a fleet before it is destroyed. The DS than destroys the SF and the SF's fleet destroy the DS. And everyone is happy



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Old 06-24-2009, 10:27 AM   #71
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Hey guys, that's not that serious! Let's just say that the SF creates a fleet before it is destroyed. The DS than destroys the SF and the SF's fleet destroy the DS. And everyone is happy
Yay! I'm satisfied.

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Old 06-24-2009, 10:38 AM   #72
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Hey guys, that's not that serious! Let's just say that the SF creates a fleet before it is destroyed. The DS than destroys the SF and the SF's fleet destroy the DS. And everyone is happy
Well I can't agree with that scenario, because there won't be enough ships to destroy DS. And there's not enough time to steal DS's blueprint, devise a plan, and send ships to destroy DS. DS wins in a space battle against SF.

I'm still waiting for a good and rational argument from SF's side about how will SF prevent its destruction because DS fire the superlaser. Any other takers?


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Old 06-24-2009, 10:46 AM   #73
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It uses a forgotten Force technique devised by the Rakata to absorb, redirect or deflect the energy. Happy now?

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Old 06-24-2009, 10:53 AM   #74
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Nope. How powerful is the shield. Can it withstand a planet-busting superlaser attack? If you can't prove it, then it can't. There's no "maybe" or "could be", and "it's possible that" in a vs thread. Stay to the facts.

AFAIK there's nothing to support the idea of "SF has a planet-level durability". So if there's no proof of it, then it's a no. Nice, but try again.


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Old 06-24-2009, 11:05 AM   #75
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If you don't know the full schematics of both entities of a versus thread, then its inevitable that you will have what-ifs.
All that was known about the Star Forge is that it is a living space station that is overflowing with Dark Side energy. Andif it is used to its full potential, the Force is more powerful than any weapon could ever hope to be. So if Revan was controlling the Forge, and if it was a desperate situation (such as a battle with a superweapon the size of a moon), he would probably have to use it to its full potential and deal with the aftereffects later.

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Old 06-24-2009, 11:12 AM   #76
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I don't accept what-ifs. Well, it's not in my knowledge of vs threads. Perhaps you should go to KMC, Comic Vine, Marvel Boards, and other sites. You will see that they deal with what's given by the TS. And they always backup their statement with proof. I don't accept a baseless assumption.

Sorry man, I just don't accept that kind of debating.


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Old 06-24-2009, 11:15 AM   #77
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In this vid you see how long it takes to aim, load all systems, fire the laser and blow up a whole planet: 17 seconds. Can the SF produce and man a whole fleet in this duration? CAN IT? NO, sure it can't!
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YouTube Video
Why don't you admit it?



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Old 06-24-2009, 11:18 AM   #78
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I don't accept what-ifs. Well, it's not in my knowledge of vs threads. Perhaps you should go to KMC, Comic Vine, Marvel Boards, and other sites. You will see that they deal with what's given by the TS. And they always backup their statement with proof. I don't accept a baseless assumption.

Sorry man, I just don't accept that kind of debating.
Okay smart guy. What do you think about this: There isn't enough information to compile a good argument for the Star Forge.


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Old 06-24-2009, 11:19 AM   #79
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Thanks for the video, ex two. I'm just a bit lazy to find a good quality video.


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Old 06-24-2009, 11:20 AM   #80
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Mir'sheb. There isn't enough information to compile a good argument for the Star Forge.
And that's one of the reasons why all your arguments for the SF are just crap.



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