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Old 06-26-2009, 08:44 AM   #1
True_Avery
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Hal Turner's Latest Shenanigans

http://www.courant.com/news/connecti...,1057054.story
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...led_for_a.html
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...t-breakingnews
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31532924...me_and_courts/
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...to-judges.html

Hal Turner, 47, was arrested Wednesday at his home in North Bergen, N.J., and accused of posting statements on his Web site calling for the murder of three federal appeals court judges in Chicago who recently ruled on a gun rights case. On June 12, he had turned himself in to the authorities after a warrant was put out for his arrest.

“Let me be the first to say this plainly: These judges deserve to be killed. Their blood will replenish the tree of liberty. A small price to pay to assure freedom for millions,” Turner wrote. He included their pictures, phone numbers, work address and room numbers along with a photo of the courthouse in which they work and a map of its location, the FBI says.

On Monday, Turner was arraigned in a Connecticut court on a charge of encouraging violence against state legislators there. He allegedly told blog readers to "take up arms" against the lawmakers and that government officials should "obey the Constitution or die."

While some say this FBI arrest goes against Hal's freedom of speech, it must be remember that Fighting Words, and speech that incites riots, illegal actions, and so on are not protected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fightin...#United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yates_v._United_States

So, you may be thinking, "wait, he was arrested, but he turned himself in?"

He turned himself in for the inciting violence charge, but was re-arrested in his home by the FBI on Wednesday. He is currently being held with no bail (he has been deemed a danger to society, and is thus being denied the opportunity). They did this because, along with his threats to the federal judges and previous history... they found 150 Hollow-Point bullets in his house, along with a large stockpile of guns and ammo.

If convicted, Turner could face 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. That not counting the new charge of 150 Hollow-Point bullets that could be brought up. They are heavily controlled in New Jersey, and require a sporting license to own, transport, and so on. I believe that, after his threats, it may have been illegal for him to still posses them. Even so, his stockpile of weapons definitely will not help his case.

Radio is dominated but a lot of people that I find very distasteful and bordering on the lines of hate-mongering (Randy Savage comes to mind, as I recall him claiming some people needed to die when I was forced to car-pool for a year with someone who listed to him), but ordering his listeners to murder 3 people, along with posting info on how to find them? I found his quote on "making an example out of them" to be particularly interesting.

So, white supremacist Hal Turner is now behind bars and is awaiting a chance at 10 years locked away and the extinguishing of his radio show.

Good? Bad? Violation of his free speech, or better off behind bars?
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:20 AM   #2
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I have to say I'm not familiar with the guy, but people like him drive me insane. I'm all for free speech...but threatening lives, stockpiling weapons, and ammo (I'm guessing illegally) kinda crosses the line for me. The minute you threaten someone, or instruct other people to kill someone you tarnish free speech and all that it stands for.

Frankly, I hope they do lock the guy away, and I wish it was for more than ten years. If he gets out at 57 he can go right back to his hate mongering, and I"m sure there will be someone to take his place while he's gone.


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Old 06-26-2009, 12:21 PM   #3
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Ironically, gun control laws are passed because of people like this guy.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Kyp Dooran View Post
Ironically, gun control laws are passed because of people like this guy.
Yeah pretty much, and they give all gun owners a bad name while they're at it.


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Old 06-26-2009, 03:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider View Post
Yeah pretty much, and they give all gun owners a bad name while they're at it.
This. I don't know what your definition of 'stockpile' is, but I probably qualify. Granted, guns aren't as repressively controlled out here, but still.... Guys like this make me seem like a loony. Plus...hollow points? There's no problem with them....they are used for hunting. Sounds like a bit of NJ stupidity to me.

As for inciting people to violence, when you go on air and demand that people be killed, he should be arrested for that. Inciting people to violence is not protected speech. If he broke the NJ laws regarding weapons and ammunition, then he should also be charged on that as well. I'm all for free speech and gun ownership....so long as it's legal. This sounds like a case of very much illegal shenanigans.


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Old 06-26-2009, 03:47 PM   #6
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I own one weapon myself, and the bullets that I have for it are indeed hollow points. There is nothing wrong with them, and they are as bimmerman said perfectly legal.

At the same time, I didn't see anything about weapons charges in the story so he may have owned them legally or the charges may still be pending.


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Old 06-26-2009, 06:39 PM   #7
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A question of interest for the slightly gun ignorant, what is the deal with hollow points? Are they more dangerous? (though I believe guns and ammo are only as dangerous as the guy using them).

This guy sounds like a bit of a psycho
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:20 PM   #8
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I'm not going to go into the politics of the hollow point debate, as that's not the point of this thread. Hollow point bullets are designed to massively increase in diameter upon impact. When any bullet hits a solid object, it deforms in a mushroom shape as it passes through; a hollow point is designed to deform in a way such that its deformed diameter is many times what it normally would be for a non hollow point of equal caliber and muzzle velocity. The larger diameter punches larger holes in the target and therefore causes more damage.

Hunters use them because rather than relying on a single perfect shot, a slightly off shot will still cause a quick kill because the effective kill area is that much bigger. The bullets won't fix a poor shot, but increase the effective area.

Hope that helps, but if anyone wants to have a true gun /ammo/ gun control debate, let's start a new thread.


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Old 06-26-2009, 08:21 PM   #9
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This guy is a first class nutter. I first encountered the guy when he was ranting about some secret plan for the "Amero," and the image he gave as "proof" was traced back to an artist who made fantasy coins, including mockups of the US "state" quarters.


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Old 06-26-2009, 09:45 PM   #10
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:49 PM   #11
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Law enforcement uses hollow points.


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Old 06-27-2009, 04:51 AM   #12
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In New Jersey, I believe the rules on Hollow Points to civilians is that you need a gun license, can only have them in residence, or on transportation to a range. Non-residents bringing in hollow-points can be arrested. It is also illegal for civilians to have hollow points loaded into a gun when not at a range. It is illegal to carry a hollow-points or having a gun loaded with hollow-points when walking around if you have a carrying license. The ammo and the gun must also be locked in separate trunks/lockers/etc. The only time you can transport them in your car when -not- going to a gun related spot is when "Deviations deemed reasonably necessary".

They are not -illegal- but they may as well be in NJ. The rules are strict, and it is better for your personal safety to simply not own any. While they may be perfectly legal where you live, NJ and other places like California have strict laws on their ownership.

Hal is not being charged with the gun and hollow-point ownership, but it reflects badly on him and, if NJ law is similar to California, a crime related to violence gets your ability to own guns stripped.

Hope that helps my vague OP.

---------------

Back on topic:

Shipp today gave Turner a list of conditions that must be adhered to if he posts bail. He order Turner to refrain from using the Internet; he can have no contact with the judges he's accused to threatening; Turner's barred from blogging or broadcasting his show; he must surrender all broadcasting equipment he owns; he must remain under house arrest and wear an electronic bracelet; he must forfeit all travel documents like his passport.

Also the judge ordered his wife to serve as a third-party custodian for the government.

Turner is also facing charges that his comments in a blog post -- also posted on June 2 -- was inciting violence against two lawmakers who championed a bill that would provide more oversight of the finances of Catholic parishes.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2...rounds_of.html
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Old 06-27-2009, 07:01 AM   #13
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*note to self* don't move to New Jersey


as far as the sanctions against Turner go: Good..sounds like the government isn't taking any chances nor should they. As I said in an earlier post, I think when you maliciously threaten someone's life you cross the line between free speech and being a criminal. This guy has crossed the line, and should be dealt with. I don't know that it will change him, probably not, but you can't threaten government officials and expect nothing to happen. Just like if you make a habit of threatening the president you'll get a visit from the Secret Service eventually.


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Old 06-28-2009, 12:49 PM   #14
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Inciting to violence and committing felonies or misdemeanors is against the law, regardless of any 'free speech' issues. Go directly to jail, Hal, do not pass go. Hope you stay there a very long time, too.


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Old 06-30-2009, 08:54 PM   #15
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Angry DAMN YOU TO HELL, HAL TURNER!

This guy whizzes me off, he wee-wees me right off. I might even blog this post with my thoughts and feelings on the matter.
[SCREAMFEST!]
Kill the jews, huh?! Oh really Hal Turner?! What a piece of <work>!
Least my extended family will breathe easier knowing this guy is locked up.:¬:
Hey Hal, do you mean Jews religiously only, by blood only, or both?! Hey Hal, do you also hate Native Americans?! Especially the Quapaw tribe of Oklahoma?!
Yes?! THEN PUT A TARGET ON ME FOR HAVING THE BLOOD OF BOTH! You're reeeeeeeeal classy, Turner.
Hey, Hal Turner, will you give Limbaugh and Hannity preferential treatment while burning Levin and Savage?!
[/SCREAMFEST!]

I'd like to call this guy unamerican and not a true gun owner, and also not a real conservative--but that would be the no true scottsman fallacy all the way...(...well actually, who would agree with me on the Un-American part?) So I'll do the next best thing: disavaow and disown.

Shame on you, Hal Turner, for poisoning people and using the coats of gun ownership and conservativism to promote racism. Shame on you, Hal Turner. Shame.

I know I'd like to put my foot up his cute little buns right now.

Last edited by Jae Onasi; 06-30-2009 at 09:02 PM. Reason: I play with naughty words.
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:59 PM   #16
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Why even send him to jail?
Violent thought warning
Show spoiler


Last edited by Trench; 06-30-2009 at 09:45 PM. Reason: We may not incite to violence even inside spoiler tags.
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Old 07-01-2009, 05:03 AM   #17
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He probably deserves to go to jail for being stupid as much as anything else. If you're going to go the route of insurrection b/c you think your govt has gone to hell, you'd be better off plotting in back rooms. While I understand the disillusionment many people have about the state of our various levels of govt, you want to stear clear of crackpots if and when you finally act. Turner has made himself a joke spewing age old conspircacy theories. Threatening govt officials openly is a quick way to get yourself in hotwater w/o really accomplishing anything except (further) noteriety.


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Old 07-01-2009, 07:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
While I understand the disillusionment many people have about the state of our various levels of govt, you want to stear clear of crackpots if and when you finally act. Turner has made himself a joke spewing age old conspircacy theories. Threatening govt officials openly is a quick way to get yourself in hotwater w/o really accomplishing anything except (further) noteriety.
I'd never heard of the guy until he'd done this and ended up as a news item in this thread, actually. I will happily ignore him and his program, or lack thereof since he''s now in jail.


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Old 07-01-2009, 08:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi View Post
I'd never heard of the guy until he'd done this and ended up as a news item in this thread, actually. I will happily ignore him and his program, or lack thereof since he''s now in jail.
I had to look him up myself. His embracing of the "holocaust myth" suggests his grasp on reality is a bit tenuous, to be kind. Since I never heard his program, I certainly won't miss it. But it doesn't seem too hard to figure out what he was likely spewing over the radio/internet.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

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