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Old 07-26-2009, 01:31 AM   #81
SyntheticGerbil
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Originally Posted by Nickelstein View Post
Ok was a post this long really necessary? Seriously though Thrik is right. No offense but you've been kinda rude to new members whenever they disagree with you.
*sigh*
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Old 07-26-2009, 08:18 AM   #82
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I didn't mean to come across as abrasive, and I certainly have no desire to see posting quality on Mojo reduced for the sake of more members. I tried to make my post as non-confrontational as possible.

I have no real issue with the way you conduct arguments and such. It's difficult to not come across as a bit of a dick when arguing with someone on the internet anyway — something I've plenty of experience with.

What really prompted me to write my previous post was your manner towards bcrt2000, which I thought was completely unnecessary. Using post counts to try and quell a guy who's been lurking around Mojo and the forums for at least three years just seems really unsavoury, and I'd hate it to become a trait of the Mojo forums. I've used forums where not being around for like two years pretty much disqualifies your opinions, and the atmosphere stinks.

If you do feel like people are signing up just to victimise you then let me know who and I can look into whether it's some guy doing it to wind you up, but I think it's more likely than not simply the guys who lurk and stumble upon Mojo on a regular basis being drawn in by your argument and feeling compelled to put in their two cents. That's what forums are all about IMO!


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Old 07-26-2009, 10:57 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Guy.brush View Post
All I'm saying is that remaking a beloved MONKEY ISLAND 20 years after it was initially made brought up the same kind of psychological behavior in many of us as did the prequels.
Again, you're pulling a straw-man argument. I've never said that I didn't like the art style they've gone with for the SE. The background art is GOOD, but they've left much of it rough, incomplete and most of all they've been inconsistent with the quality. Then there are the sprites - some sprites are really good (like LeChuck) and others are ordinary... like Toothrot. When I saw him I thought "wow why do his legs look like a paper cut-out?"
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Look at Terminator. I'm the biggest Terminator fan but even I can't look past T3 and to some degree T4 and not feel a little less enthusiastic about T2. I know that it shouldn't affect the glorious T2, but a bad remake, no matter if it's a stand alone film or continuation of a trilogy always seems to rub off on the original.
T4 is so much more worse than T3 it's not funny, at least in T3 they kept *some* continuity (although it was still a horrible movie). I was actually quite impressed with SCC, although it does go way off in a tangent.

Look at 24 - the first Season I saw was 5... and I was blown away. Really. I still think it's the best season, and the most unpredictable. I watched the other seasons - and for the most part they're good. Season 6 is by far the worst (well, "Redemption" is also pretty horrible), but I was overall happy with Season 7... I think it regained a lot of what had been lost in 6.

But we're not talking about a sequal - we're talking about a remake.
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So concerned fans sometimes are overly protective of the intial creation, cause they don't want to experience something like the prequels again.
That's all I'm saying. We, as monkey fans need to stand back and look at all of this from an objective POV. Is it objectively bad, even for newcomers? Or are some of the things just over-the-top hatred for something different?
I know some of the stuff is sloppy, buggy and could be way better looking. But the overall design choices seem good.
Again, I don't have a problem with the design choices. I have a problem with the game being so buggy and problematic.

Did I tell you I managed to freeze the game in Part III accidently? You can too - here's how... first go to the Monkey Island Cannibals, take their bananas and when they talk to you say "you give them anything". While they're waiting for you to give them something read the note left on Melee Island about the Governer's kidnapping... Guybrush will pull it out of his shirt and start reading it. Next thing you know, you're being put into the hut, and Guybrush is just standing there you have no cursor, you can't access the inventory or the verb list ... or do anything at all other than bring up the menu with ESC. That's the kind of thing that's just unacceptable.

I confirmed that the bug wasn't in the original game ... Guybrush simply puts the note away in the hut and you can go about your business. There are many things that make me believe the playtesters either didn't know how to test a game; or that the programmers just didn't care.


Thrik has a valid point about SyntheticGerbil - Synth ignored Snugglecakes's comments on the price and instead concentrated on bcrt2000's argument. Really, neither argument has a solid basis, and I would dismiss either as un-credible anyway.

So here's a quick look at Snugglecakes's post:
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Originally Posted by Snugglecakes View Post
I really don't get this apparent defense of this game. It's not about the art style or anything, the actual idea is great. If you take in the picture as a whole, it works. But I'm sorry, the quality is appalling. Like many have said, it is so amateur it's almost hard to believe. I also don't get the price argument. I would gladly pay $20 for a good version, and I don 't see how that price necesitates having a boxed version either. It's still cheap. I'd pay $25 or $30 for a DVD version. When last did you go out on a Saturday night and spend less than $20? New games are going for $40-$60, so a $20 version of MI:SE is half of that at most. For that you get all that voiceover work and brand new graphics? It's a steal. But its current state is inexcusable, no two ways about it. The cheapest website I've ever made would never have such carelessness imposed on it.

Just look at Patrik's images mentioned above. A whole lot more care and attention went into those, and he's not even getting paid for it.
This is an entirely subjective argument - LEC have obviously had years of experience, and done their research (as well as have had professional advice given to them), and chose the $10 mark for a reason. Brct is wrong as well - the overhead for producing Amaray-case games is miniscule; that's why the "DVD case" versions of CMI, Grim Fandango, Sam & Max and whateverever else was released in Australia in 2007 retailed for... AU $10.

I have my complaints about the Telltale game too; specifically that it doesn't include ANY documentation! I see that as unacceptable, but besides that I thought it was a good game. Price obviously isn't the factor there either.

To put it simply: The price is irrelevant. LEC targeted the price because that's what they believed would be the most profitable. The fact that the game is so "unfinished" would still be unacceptable for $5.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:19 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Thrik View Post
What really prompted me to write my previous post was your manner towards bcrt2000, which I thought was completely unnecessary. Using post counts to try and quell a guy who's been lurking around Mojo and the forums for at least three years just seems really unsavoury, and I'd hate it to become a trait of the Mojo forums. I've used forums where not being around for like two years pretty much disqualifies your opinions, and the atmosphere stinks.
Well, I'm sorry bcrt2000. I don't mean to scare you off and intimidate you. It's my mistake to not go back and realize you've been lurking for years either. I guess I got you mixed up with a couple of the other new users and failed to do proper research on the matter before getting frustrated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrik View Post
If you do feel like people are signing up just to victimise you then let me know who and I can look into whether it's some guy doing it to wind you up, but I think it's more likely than not simply the guys who lurk and stumble upon Mojo on a regular basis being drawn in by your argument and feeling compelled to put in their two cents. That's what forums are all about IMO!
Well either way if it's one guy or seven, I can't keep up with that, so I'll just try to really hard to ignore it from now on. I'm sick of talking about the Special Edition unless but then I want to go back and clarify my reasoning if I get quoted as well. I'd rather just root for those putting the voices into the original game from now on, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plamdi.com View Post
Thrik has a valid point about SyntheticGerbil - Synth ignored Snugglecakes's comments on the price and instead concentrated on bcrt2000's argument. Really, neither argument has a solid basis, and I would dismiss either as un-credible anyway.
Well I pretty much agreed with what Snugglecakes had to say, so I did not quote it. brct2000 was writing in direct response to me, which is a very easy way to get me to respond. Graphic mistakes aside, I don't necessarily agree with Snugglecakes that the art style is fine. Some parts are better than others with varying quality. It would have been nice if many backgrounds came off more finished because I can see their Photoshop brushes as it appears they quickly finished them. Maybe I just somewhat have an eye for this stuff because, I'm not trying to be pompous.

My other main problem is uneven character design or the ability to ensure Guybrush could be appealing to the overall players. Having a lovable main character, even with flaws, is very key. It seems illy decided, but judging from the concept art on the Facebook page, it was a good start.

I feel like if they just developed and tested what they were working on more with an audience, that would have helped thoroughly. So I agree with Snugglecakes overall on the unfinished quality but for the art style reasons on top of his. I'm a firm believer just as you and Snugglecakes that a well presented and refined game is important no matter what the price.

Last edited by SyntheticGerbil; 07-26-2009 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:20 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by SyntheticGerbil View Post
I feel like if they just developed and tested what they were working on more with an audience, that would have helped thoroughly. So I agree with Snugglecakes overall on the unfinished quality but for the art style reasons on top of his. I'm a firm believer just as you and Snugglecakes that a well presented and refined game is important no matter what the price.
Grim Fandango was a well presented and refined game, but commercially it was a flop. Products have three main features: "Fast", "Cheap" or "Quality"... and you can have any two, but never all three. This was a Fast and Cheap release I'm sorry to say.

I take back what I said in my previous post too - because it may not have been LEC's intention that this installment be profitible, it may have been a deliberate loss-leader. That still doesn't excuse the quality.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:44 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by plamdi.com View Post
Grim Fandango was a well presented and refined game, but commercially it was a flop. Products have three main features: "Fast", "Cheap" or "Quality"... and you can have any two, but never all three. This was a Fast and Cheap release I'm sorry to say.

I take back what I said in my previous post too - because it may not have been LEC's intention that this installment be profitible, it may have been a deliberate loss-leader. That still doesn't excuse the quality.
LucasArts wasn't gearing up for Grim Fandango to be a flop, considering how well Full Throttle did, which was very refined (if the shortness doesn't bother you) and sold well. Curse of Monkey Island did very well too if I'm not mistaken, and that game was completely on time and on budget. But I also know those were very different days in the company's history.

I have a hard time believing the company did the SE fast and cheap on purpose because of doubts of the profitability, but this is LucasArts, so it's entirely possible. I don't know if you can get a quality game if it is done fast, just because the word fast seems to say everything but the most important aspects were looked over in order to get the game to ship as soon as possible, but I'm sure that's possible as well. I would definitely be interested to hear about some of the more rushed aspects from someone who worked on the game in the future.
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Old 08-01-2009, 05:22 AM   #87
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I'm not entirely sure, but I think there's some new concept art on the official site. Most already seen in the making of video, except for a Bob sketch, but still, images that can't be found on Scumm Bar yet.
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