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Old 08-21-2009, 07:34 PM   #41
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TSL. Still igniting passions (both for and against) almost 5 years later.

If there ever is a KotOR 3, I'd be willing to bet that it won't be made by Obsidian.


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Old 08-21-2009, 08:23 PM   #42
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Blasphemy!!!!

I won't by it if OE doesn't do it.
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Old 08-21-2009, 09:29 PM   #43
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Blasphemy!!!!

I won't by it if OE doesn't do it.
Why? They killed the 2nd game.. Oh.. wait that was LA.

If any company makes it I will be happy.




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Old 08-22-2009, 02:30 AM   #44
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QUOTE=Darth InSidious;2664806]Given just how buggy K1 was at release, that's hardly fair comment. It took Bioware a three patches to make the game (mostly) run anywhere close to smoothly. At one point, I remember the game crashing at almost every area transition.
[/Quote]

K1 didn't crash the bro in law's X-Box, no matter how many people played it. (And EVERYONE that came over wanted to give it a spin), and it only crashed my system before I upgraded my graphics card. Seeing as the graphics card I had was bogus, I can't hold it against them.

And at least they patched the damn thing! No luck on K2 with patches unless you want to fire up Fred Tetra's tool and attempt it yourself.


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I can only put that down to bad taste, given how two-dimensional and clichéd they were. Oh, no, they had personalities that weren't cheap archetypes. How dreadful.

Heaven forfend that entertainment should challenge us.
Reality TV is full of people who bicker, backstab, and need a shrink...but I wouldn't exactly call it "challenging entertainment." Being rude, snotty, snide, nasty and offensive doesn't make you "deep," it just makes you the kind of person no one wants over for poker night.

And "cheap archetypes?" Please, like Mira wasn’t the stereotype “Tough chick,” Mical not the stereotypical “noble rube?” Hanharr was a “mad dog.” Atton was a shady, weak, but cunning rat off the same family tree as Alex Krycek or a Tarintino cast member. GO-TO was the MCP's cousin ("With the data I've downloaded, I can riun things 900 to 1200 times better than a normal human") and My reaction to Kreia was to snark that someone left the Box of Pain and Gom Jabbar in her other robes. They were no more or less archetypical than the K1 cast, just a lot less pleasant to be around.

And re: Canderous…I’ve been spoiled heavily by the old Han Solo books and Karen Traviss. The Mando’a may be battle-obsessed, and bloodthirsty. Yet, they also have a distinct code of honor & dignity. Canderous and Boba Fett were definitely not on the side of angels, but you knew where they stood, why, and that there were lines they flat-out wouldn’t cross.

Besides, if you hate "archetype" characters, then what brings you to the GFFA in the first place? Jedi George went through Joseph Campbell's mythology catalog with a highlighter pen and totally built the universe around it. He totally admits to ripping off as much "archetype" as he could get away with, and a few he probably shouldn't have. Since K1 was shooting for the Classic Trilogy feel, it was totally appropriate.

(Likewise, with Mass Effect, it had a very Heinlein meets Joss Wheadon feel, so I wasn't too shocked at the attitudes I ran across and the pointless cast deaths)

And K2 was such a catalog of "OOOOOHHH, we're so dark and edgy!111!!" posturing that is oh-so-trendy. A crapsack world full of nasty people that just gets bleaker and bleaker? Please, that’s just as much a cliché. It’s bloody easy to make a “dark, edgy” world. Just have a big metropolis where it’s always night and always raining, the criminals are too rich and well-placed, the cops are paid off, folks are greedy, cowardly, or apathetic, and any good deed or honorable person is dragged into the nearest streetlight and interrogated until it admits ulterior motive or dismissed as a joke.

It’s Gotham City. It’s Sweeny Todd’s and V’s London. Pick any cyberpunk novel at random. It’s Bladerunner and Terminator. “Forget it, Jake, it’s Chinatown.” It’s almost every damn movie made in the mid 70’s, and most SF TV series from the last 10-15 years, with a fanbase populated by black turtlenecks and wire-rim glasses sneering how superior they are for liking to wallow in drek. I had enough of that pretentious garbage in film school.

I mentioned the cut content because it tells me what Obsidian was planning and what else would have been ruined if they had the time. The upside, I guess would have been something resembling an ending.

If Obsidian makes a K3, I’m hoping they:

1. Get enough time to finish the story and bug test it, or come out with necessary patches.
2. Remember that female gamers play this stuff and would appreciate a little less gratuitous cleavage and half-naked chicks. (Or at least give us some half-naked men, too)!
3. Have a point to the story, or some likeable characters (not holding my breath here – I’ve seen Planetscape)


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Old 08-22-2009, 03:11 AM   #45
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Given just how buggy K1 was at release, that's hardly fair comment. It took Bioware a three patches to make the game (mostly) run anywhere close to smoothly. At one point, I remember the game crashing at almost every area transition.



I can only put that down to bad taste, given how two-dimensional and clichéd they were. Oh, no, they had personalities that weren't cheap archetypes. How dreadful.


Heaven forfend that entertainment should challenge us.

Hahahaha, no she didn't. She was evil and then became Ms Goody-Goody in two seconds flat becauses you flattered her, and then spent the rest of the game in self-pity. That isn't "issues". That's navel-gazing, teenage bull****.


Well, no. Having dealt with people with screwed-up pasts, Visas is actually remotely credible as someone with "issues". Unlike Ms. Emobull**** "Waa, daddy made me tidy my room, I'mma go slit my wrists" in K1.


The Bao-Dur who talks at noteable length about his crippling guilt and being overshadowed by the past? Or the Bao-Dur who is still calling you "General" ten years after the end of the war?


Which is why she's available to female characters, of course. Well done avoiding her character to have a dig at Obsidian though. After all, we wouldn't want the actual nature of the game to get in the way of your rant, would we?

But just in case we do need to spell this one out, Handmaiden doesn't "have a daddy fetish"; she's obsessed with the thought of being a bastard, and, funnily enough why her father did what he did. But we've already established you want cheap, two-dimensional archetypes rather than depth. You must have loved Mass Effect.


Unlike in KotOR, where once you do the banal little sidequest they have nothing more to say to you but the same two lines.


So he's worse than Canderous, a mass-murderer without a shred of remorse or thought for those that he killed for some twisted idea of honour? Riiiiight.




Did you actually miss the point, and the dialogue options telling her to shut up with it, or are you simply incapable of an argument that sticks with the facts?

She's supposed to be your teacher and.. you object that she chimes in with opinions. She also only questions you if you start leaning to one side like... a two-dimensional archetype... and doesn't say you "didn't meet her standards" at any point in the game.


Well done on the backwards compliment.



Save or kill the giant fish? Irrelevant. Kill Uthar or Yuthura? Irrelevant. Side with Chuundar or the dad? Irrelevant. Save or kill the sand people? Irrelevant. First you blame them for departing from the formula, then for sticking to it too much.


Yes, how dare they show consequences to things which happen. How appalling of Obsidian.


Oh, no, some two-dimensional character with the personality of a cardboard cut-out went and died in a tomb! Since it's never explicitly stated that it's him, though, congrats on critiquing an element that was cut because it didn't belong in the final draft rather than for time, though.


Is never mentioned in the game, so pulling a developer's comment from an interview on the background of an item which doesn't even fit in the game's story as presented in the game as though it belongs to the story is neither accurate nor fair.

I've left out the rest of your post, since it's nothing more than a rant.
You, sir, just stated pretty much every thought I had far better than I could (or would take the time to do--I'm too lazy ).

@Allronix

It's different cliches. Big deal. I happen to be one of those people who likes Terminator and Batmam. Opinions, tastes, etc...


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 08-22-2009, 04:48 AM   #46
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And re: Canderous…I’ve been spoiled heavily by the old Han Solo books and Karen Traviss. The Mando’a may be battle-obsessed, and bloodthirsty. Yet, they also have a distinct code of honor & dignity. Canderous and Boba Fett were definitely not on the side of angels, but you knew where they stood, why, and that there were lines they flat-out wouldn’t cross.
Uh-huh. That's your *only* reasons.

Quote:
If Obsidian makes a K3, I’m hoping they:

1. Get enough time to finish the story and bug test it, or come out with necessary patches.
You and just about every fan of the KOTOR series.

Quote:
2. Remember that female gamers play this stuff and would appreciate a little less gratuitous cleavage and half-naked chicks. (Or at least give us some half-naked men, too)!
Awww. You haven't exploited that rumored "Atton Dancer" glitch in TSL yet? It's pretty cool to make him look like the douchebag he is. But I have found some willing guys in the mean time to fill your request.
Show spoiler


Quote:
3. Have a point to the story, or some likeable characters (not holding my breath here – I’ve seen Planetscape)
Waaah--you don't like the modern day games! ZOMG fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

...*Runs away*
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:29 AM   #47
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here here. TSL was to me the best starwars rpg ever made, at least in the underlying themes. a game with a 12 month development cycle is never going to be the best it can be. kotor, was the standard rehashing of the starwars mainstay... TSL was going deeper, TSL was more about the ideas than the story, it debated the ideology instead of the reality. that is what made it a better game, even if it was only half complete
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:47 AM   #48
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After all, is it not TSL's concept of the true Sith who have finally revealed themselves and come out of hiding to conquer the Republic?
Well, I think I need to step in and correct many of you that think this as TSL only went into more detail about the True Sith, but Canderous talked about them in K1.


Here we have Canderous talking about why the Mandalorians attacked the Republic. We know that Revan and Malak weren't Sith yet.


Later on when you talk to Canderous, he mentions the Sith retreating back to their Empire. It's obvious that he doesn't know the difference between Revan's Sith and the True Sith at the time when you read the end of his dialogue.


Anyway, thought I would clear that up.


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Old 08-22-2009, 08:51 AM   #49
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Yeah, I noticed how those dialogs suddenly became even more important when I replayed KotOR after playing TSL.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 08-22-2009, 09:22 AM   #50
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Or at least give us some half-naked men, too!
Uh, Sion.
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Old 08-22-2009, 10:56 AM   #51
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Well, I think I need to step in and correct many of you that think this as TSL only went into more detail about the True Sith, but Canderous talked about them in K1.

...

Anyway, thought I would clear that up.
My bad. I stand corrected... two months after I made that post. Was it just a matter of it taking that long to get the screenshots, Shem?

That was indeed interesting dialog in KotOR that I had forgotten. Nonetheless I still find it disappointing that TOR appears to be minimalizing the events and characters from KotOR 2: TSL. And TSL did introduce the concept of Revan going to the Unknown Regions though that may well have gotten its impetus from the very dialog Shem quoted. Yes, it will be interesting to see how TOR deals with the characters and events from its SPRPG predecessors. Based on the TOR web comic the Shan clan is still around. I still think it would be cool to have a single player KotOR 3 that served as a lead-in to TOR though.


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Old 08-22-2009, 04:12 PM   #52
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That was indeed interesting dialog in KotOR that I had forgotten.
Me too. Now that it has been brought up, and I'm on another playthrough (Hopefully you get me those home made mods soon Totenkopf?), I'll especially be on the lookout for those.

*NOW* I do recall once that K1 had made references in the loading screens and one in game conversations--just not specifically with Canderous.

Quote:
Nonetheless I still find it disappointing that TOR appears to be minimalizing the events and characters from KotOR 2: TSL. And TSL did introduce the concept of Revan going to the Unknown Regions though that may well have gotten its impetus from the very dialog Shem quoted.
Well, I *just* bought this month's edition of the kotor comics and it is coming full circle: Revan obtained the mask, but there is much more to it than that.

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Yes, it will be interesting to see how TOR deals with the characters and events from its SPRPG predecessors. Based on the TOR web comic the Shan clan is still around. I still think it would be cool to have a single player KotOR 3 that served as a lead-in to TOR though.
I'm sure there will be mentions from a sort of "looking back" historical perspective. Keep in mind that TSL was done more in secrecy than out in the open. I'd imagine that what is known about it is told from an outsider's perspective. What other points of reference would we have?

The Shan clan raises some questions about Bastilla and Revan in those months after K1 ended. Sure it could have been someone else after Revan left, but what other family did Basty have? What evidence do we have to the contrary, as is implied with her relationship with Revan?

Yes, and I suspect as a deal sweetener, the TOR comics are going to be in print...I've already seen advertisements for TOR and it uses images from the comics. May not mean anything, but then again--it's in a comic book and that's how you get comic fans' attention...I wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility.


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Old 08-22-2009, 10:32 PM   #53
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The Shan clan raises some questions about Bastilla and Revan in those months after K1 ended. Sure it could have been someone else after Revan left, but what other family did Basty have? What evidence do we have to the contrary, as is implied with her relationship with Revan?
It's Luke Skywalker, not Luke Amidala. You catch my drift? Either Bassie's got sweet on her bro, BioWare has some far-fetched retcons to make up or we're in for a twist. Guess it's not really important, though. This is TOR, which makes any post-K1 philandering ancient history.

... Come to think of it, maybe they plan to make room in the canon for the extended romance mod?


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Old 08-23-2009, 04:48 PM   #54
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(Or at least give us some half-naked men, too)!
Uh, Sion.


I still contend that in the unlikely event that LA decides to make a KotOR 3, they won't let Obsidian near it.


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Old 08-23-2009, 08:50 PM   #55
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If there will be a KOTOR III, it most likely will be done by Obsidian. They seem the only ones willing to take on the project.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:37 AM   #56
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Lots of people would be willing to take on the project, but as I've said before, it isn't up to the developer.


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Old 08-24-2009, 02:47 PM   #57
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You want good games? Get your kids into T to M rated games, then we can spend all our time and money developing shovelware that doesn't suck
Star Wars games don't need to have any specific rating to be great. Just look at the X-wing/TIE Fighter series.

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And re: Canderous…I’ve been spoiled heavily by the old Han Solo books and Karen Traviss. The Mando’a may be battle-obsessed, and bloodthirsty. Yet, they also have a distinct code of honor & dignity. Canderous and Boba Fett were definitely not on the side of angels, but you knew where they stood, why, and that there were lines they flat-out wouldn’t cross.
It's very hard to feel sympathetic for the Mandalorians when you've got Canderous happily telling Revan how he and his buddies used to destroy entire cities in order to take out single military bases (KOTOR I), the Mandalorian people as a whole being all for wholescale slaughter of civilian populations just to make the Republic Military attack them (KOTOR I and other sources), Jango Fett cooperating with Count Dooku to grow a "slave army" just for money (Bounty Hunter, Attack of the Clones), Boba Fett taking jobs from Jabba the Hutt (a notorious gangster and probable rapist) and Darth ****ing Vader (and this same Darth Vader needs to tell him in Empire Strikes Back not to vaporize anybody this time). Then there's Legacy of the Force: Revelation, where Boba Fett tries to train Jaina Solo so that she can kill her fallen brother (no idea how he would be of any help in this matter), and then deliberately passing up an opportunity to kill Darth Cadeus himself later on simply because he doesn't want the Solo family to blame him for doing it, even though he tells Jaina elsewhere in the book that the Mandalorians' goal is "galactic peace" and that Cadeus must die.

Saying that the Mandalorians were "not on the side of angels" is almost funny in this context because you're clearly trying to downplay how evil they are by "admitting" that they "aren't perfect".

What do we know about the Mandalorians? They're a bunch of barbarians whose entire purpose in life according to their culture is to fight and kill "worthy" opponents. If whoever is worthy is "cowardly" and won't fight them, then kill anyone they see until the worthy opponent notices and comes after them.

A "distinct code of honor and dignity"? I can only assume you're trying to refer to the Mandalorian code, but there is no actual canonical information about the Mandalorian code, so that can't work. Seriously, what honor and dignity are you talking about, here? The only bit of information I can strain out of KOTOR about what they think "honor" means is never running away from a fight or passing up an opportunity to fight someone (and since when is never retreating so honorable or great or whatever, anyway? Even ****ing stormtroopers will retreat or surrender if they're going to lose).

The only instance I can ever recall where Boba Fett does something good (or at least refrains from doing something reprehensible) is from his story in the Tales of the Bounty Hunters collection, where he refuses to rape Leia Organa when Jabba the Hutt has her sent to his quarters... That's the Mandalorian code right there: Fight anyone you can, and don't rape anybody. If you can come up with a list of good things the Mandalorians do, feel free to put it up here... And don't mention Boba Fett being opposed to Darth Cadeus, or any other instance where they fight the Sith or Empire or whatever; Fighting one who is evil does not make one good.

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Mical was a GREAT character concept, and he cleans up in fanfic.
Personality-wise, the Disciple is much like Carth, except with a some "naivete" thrown in. Backstory-wise, he has even less substance to his character than Carth does (if the miserably unoriginal wretch can be called a character at all), but he at least isn't as stabbed-in-brain-with-Starkiller's-claws insufferable as Mr. Onasi is.

Here's the main point, though: The idea of anything from the KOTOR series being "made up for" or "cleaned up" or improved/expanded upon in a good way in any manner whatsoever by the stagnant, polluted lake of wangst that is its fan fiction is one of the most disgusting ideas I have ever heard of on this website.


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Old 08-25-2009, 12:14 PM   #58
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^Too bad Obsidian couldn't make the better of the 2 KOTOR's...it'd be nice to see KOTOR 3...unfortunately...if it's not made by Bioware...it will just be the third one...nothing special really...

Good to hear that someone still wants to make it at least...
God, when will people get it through their heads? What happened to TSL was LucasArts' fault, not Obsidian's! LA were the ones who rushed the release. Obsidian makes very good games.

I, for one, would certainly not mind a game by Obsidian, as long as LA has learned from their mistake and let them do their thing.


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Old 08-26-2009, 03:45 AM   #59
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God, when will people get it through their heads? What happened to TSL was LucasArts' fault, not Obsidian's! LA were the ones who rushed the release. Obsidian makes very good games.
Honestly, I've even said this to be people who were aware that the game was rushed. I just don't get it.

Mandatory Disclaimer: No matter what your opinions are regarding TSL, the fact that it was under a tight schedule damaged its quality. Whether or not there was quality to be had or quality that could have been is your own judgment and entirely unrelated to this post.


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Old 08-26-2009, 12:32 PM   #60
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God, when will people get it through their heads? What happened to TSL was LucasArts' fault, not Obsidian's! LA were the ones who rushed the release. Obsidian makes very good games.
One could argue that for the time they got to finish the game, they were being too ambitious. But then you consider they initially weren't allowed to play the first KotOR, which made them lose valuable time (what's up with that anyway?), and you realize LucasArts were being unreasonable.

If there's one company I would want to make KotOR 3, it'd be Obsidian, without a doubt.


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Old 08-27-2009, 11:15 AM   #61
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That's true.

Shem: I always figured Canderous was referring to the remnants of Exar Kun's Sith Empire, which still existed on Korriban by the time Revan and Malak arrived their with their armada from the Star Forge. Kun's Sith, while no longer a true empire, my have been similar to the Imperial Remnant in the New Republic era in that their military remained intact and strong enough for them to have still been significant. Perhaps when they "retreated back to their Empire" is when they had been cut down to size to the point where they were just a handful of Sith student at the academy, which was what Revan encountered (and conquered) when he ventured to Korriban during the final days of the war.

I could be wrong, but it's just what I've always assumed. Canderous could very well be refering to the "true Sith" that would return to Republic space a few centuries later.


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Old 08-27-2009, 01:17 PM   #62
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That's true.

Shem: I always figured Canderous was referring to the remnants of Exar Kun's Sith Empire, which still existed on Korriban by the time Revan and Malak arrived their with their armada from the Star Forge. Kun's Sith, while no longer a true empire, my have been similar to the Imperial Remnant in the New Republic era in that their military remained intact and strong enough for them to have still been significant. Perhaps when they "retreated back to their Empire" is when they had been cut down to size to the point where they were just a handful of Sith student at the academy, which was what Revan encountered (and conquered) when he ventured to Korriban during the final days of the war.

I could be wrong, but it's just what I've always assumed. Canderous could very well be refering to the "true Sith" that would return to Republic space a few centuries later.
Same here. Never occured to me that he might be talkin' about the True Sith.


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T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:03 PM   #63
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That's true.

Shem: I always figured Canderous was referring to the remnants of Exar Kun's Sith Empire, which still existed on Korriban by the time Revan and Malak arrived their with their armada from the Star Forge.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sion
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Darth Sion, the Lord of Pain, was a Sith Lord who lived in the time of the Old Sith Wars. As a Sith Marauder in the Great Sith War, Sion fought for Exar Kun's Sith Empire until the day he was struck down. Rather than die, though, Sion found that by calling on his pain, anger, and hatred, he could rise from certain death and achieve immortality, at the cost of all-consuming agony. With a body fractured and decomposing, but held together by the dark side of the Force, Sion survived the Great Sith War.
While possible, I cannot be so sure. You also forget that we do not know much more about Freedon Nadd who was supposedly more terrible than Revan ever was...or Ludo Kressh's true whereabouts. I mean, yeah you encounter the tomb, but do you really think he just simply died? I'd think he'd have faked his own death and gone on into the outer rims... Just my opinion.

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Kun's Sith, while no longer a true empire, my have been similar to the Imperial Remnant in the New Republic era in that their military remained intact and strong enough for them to have still been significant. Perhaps when they "retreated back to their Empire" is when they had been cut down to size to the point where they were just a handful of Sith student at the academy, which was what Revan encountered (and conquered) when he ventured to Korriban during the final days of the war.
Assuming you're talking about the search for the star forge, I believe what he encountered was the remnant followers of his previous incarnation.

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I could be wrong, but it's just what I've always assumed. Canderous could very well be refering to the "true Sith" that would return to Republic space a few centuries later.
I could not really guess at the time. At first I assumed it was Revan's forces, but that couldn't be b/c that's who the mandos were fighting and they hadn't turned to the dark side yet. I saw the talk of the "True Sith" in the loading screens and assumed it couldn't be the true sith since the species were extinct.

If it was an older remnant from another time it was either Exar Kun's forces and some got away which could still be a possibility, but I doubt it because Kun's war was poorly thought out. Freedon Nadd had stuff going on that was still being uncovered by the time of ~1000 BBY. Ludo Kressh is the only other possibility since we do not know much about him yet.

Spoiler: From the Darth Bane novel: Rule of Two we discover that
Show spoiler
Also remember Onderon's royal heritage were descendants of Nadd's bloodline. However Nadd is dead both physically and in spirit and has been since Exar Kun. It'd have to be a disciple of his or something.

I do think I recall in the first unveiling of SWTOR in a magazine awhile back the PR guy had talked about a 1,000+ year old emperor. Somewhere since I thought someone was talking about the Korriban Tomb and how that sith lord may have faked his death...that could have been someone's speculation, though.

It possibly could be some other sith lord from the ancient times that never was found or was just plain forgotten about. Remember, Onderon had the first Jedi library long before coruscant, but it got destroyed and much of the information was left unrecovered or perhaps destroyed as well. (Source: Jedi VS Sith: Essential Guide to the force.)


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Old 08-27-2009, 06:41 PM   #64
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Remember, Onderon had the first Jedi library long before coruscant, but it got destroyed and much of the information was left unrecovered or perhaps destroyed as well. (Source: Jedi VS Sith: Essential Guide to the force.)
Onderon? Isn't it Ossus that had an extensive library that got destroyed during Exar Kun's Sith days? I'm not aware of any Jedi library on Onderon.


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Old 08-27-2009, 07:30 PM   #65
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One could argue that for the time they got to finish the game, they were being too ambitious. But then you consider they initially weren't allowed to play the first KotOR, which made them lose valuable time (what's up with that anyway?), and you realize LucasArts were being unreasonable.

If there's one company I would want to make KotOR 3, it'd be Obsidian, without a doubt.
I rather liked TSL better than the original, despite its rough edges. The story as a whole was much more suspenseful and interesting than the original, but the lack in quality was greatly due to the tight schedule they had to keep. I can see areas where the game would have always lacked, even if they really completed it to their intended goal, but it was overall a much better plot than the original game.

I would like to see Obsidian complete the third game because they generated the climax in the second and it has not been resolved with the intro of TOR. I want to see it done as it was intended by Obsidian. At all would be alright if the game were awarded to another company.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:01 AM   #66
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That's true.

Shem: I always figured Canderous was referring to the remnants of Exar Kun's Sith Empire, which still existed on Korriban by the time Revan and Malak arrived their with their armada from the Star Forge. Kun's Sith, while no longer a true empire, my have been similar to the Imperial Remnant in the New Republic era in that their military remained intact and strong enough for them to have still been significant. Perhaps when they "retreated back to their Empire" is when they had been cut down to size to the point where they were just a handful of Sith student at the academy, which was what Revan encountered (and conquered) when he ventured to Korriban during the final days of the war.

I could be wrong, but it's just what I've always assumed. Canderous could very well be refering to the "true Sith" that would return to Republic space a few centuries later.
Well, Carth had more to say on the subject for those who know how get him appear in the game (see my threads about YouTubers if you're wondering why I said that).

Carth talks about something being behind the Mandalorian Wars, the vary thing Canderous talked about.


Then Carth talks about Revan going to seek it out.


We all should be aware of who Revan is seeking when reading that dialogue, right?


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Old 08-28-2009, 08:18 PM   #67
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Ah, good point. Still, I bet that wasn't Bioware's intention in the first game. But a retcon is a retcon, I guess.


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Old 08-29-2009, 12:26 AM   #68
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You definitely could be right, ZN. But if it is a retcon, it's a pretty smooth one.


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Old 08-29-2009, 05:32 AM   #69
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@ Shem: Yeah *that* one is still fresh in my mind. I had not realized I'd overlooked the one in K1--thank you for the reminders!

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Onderon? Isn't it Ossus that had an extensive library that got destroyed during Exar Kun's Sith days? I'm not aware of any Jedi library on Onderon.
*checks* Opp, you know what? You're absolutely right my friend, my memory is running things together. Guess I've not been keeping up on my SW geek facts.

Thanks.

Anyway, what I was saying in that instance remains: the Jedi Archives from that incident may have lost something vital about the sith... Could possibly be some other sith lord.

Still I just can't shake it about Ludo Kressh, I think this hidden sith faction is his remnants. If someone could please back this up or clarify either way, it'd afford us all greatly some answers.


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Old 09-05-2009, 03:36 AM   #70
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I think a KOTOR 3 made by Obsidian would be sweet....if they make it with patience.

Because TOR is 300 years after KOTOR, and that is a big gap where lots of things can happen.

Personally I would love K3 to be about Revan and the Jedi exile, and their fights against the True Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions.



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Old 09-05-2009, 05:07 PM   #71
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Because TOR is 300 years after KOTOR, and that is a big gap where lots of things can happen.

Personally I would love K3 to be about Revan and the Jedi exile, and their fights against the True Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions.
Exactly. That would be simply awesome. K3 is needed
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Old 09-10-2009, 08:07 AM   #72
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unknown regions would be difficult to realise since they're unknown....
and I think all the arguing about obsidian or bioware making the better KotoR is pointless! I personally played TSL before KotoR and after playing KotoR I wasn't dissapointed but I still prefer TSL over KotoR.... I guess it's just point of view... But KotoR 3 would be great! No matter who's the developer...
I personally would like a Mandalorian Wars KotoR where you can play Revan, Malak, Exile, Sion etc. ....
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Old 09-26-2009, 03:23 AM   #73
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If this ever gets made, I'd like for Obsidian/BioWare to drop the current Revan/Exile storyline and come up with something entirely new. There could be a few background stories or quests related to KOTOR1/2 characters, but nothing major (excluding the backdrop events of the first two games of course). A century or two between them would be a healthy change without seeming unfamiliar in my view.

I don't understand why people would want a rehash of the previous games; KOTOR and to a lesser extent TSL provided a deep enough story and experience as they were (perhaps not as extensive as some of would like, but what's done is done). Surely the gameplay can build on those games, but not the story or characters, that'd just be more of the same.

Hopefully they can include a real time and/or first person mode as well (without "auto aim" or "lock on" for lack of better terms), optionally of course for those who want it. I loved the previous games but sleepwalking through battles pressing 1, 2 and 3 just isn't so thrilling anymore after a few hours play, even if the animation and effects are nice to watch.

I might get TOR if it's there's no monthly fee and it provides a deep single player experience like KOTOR, but even with BioWare at the helm, I doubt they can make that happen, MMOs and single player games are at a fundamental level irreconcilable, I think.
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:19 AM   #74
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KOTOR and to a lesser extent TSL provided a deep enough story and experience as they were.
KotOR had a deeper story than TSL?
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:26 AM   #75
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KotOR had a deeper story than TSL?
Not in my view.


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Old 09-26-2009, 10:37 AM   #76
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KotOR had a deeper story than TSL?
Yeah, you know going around collecting Star Maps as a reprogrammed Revan jedi puppet to bring about the destruction of the Sith empire... that doesn't sound superbly deep to me.

I'm not saying that k2 is like 7 miles deep, but it got me thinking more than k1 did.

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Old 09-27-2009, 02:50 AM   #77
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Regardless of which had a deeper story, KOTOR was a more well-rounded game (I could call it finished to drive the point home ), but that aside, I'd like the third game to have its own story, which doesn't revolve around the characters of the previous games.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:00 AM   #78
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If this ever gets made, I'd like for Obsidian/BioWare to drop the current Revan/Exile storyline and come up with something entirely new.
I agree with this.


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There could be a few background stories or quests related to KOTOR1/2 characters, but nothing major (excluding the backdrop events of the first two games of course). A century or two between them would be a healthy change without seeming unfamiliar in my view.
If they would to elaborate somewhat on Revan and the Exile's death, that would shut up the fanboys. Seriously, there are tons of Revan fanboys speculating that Revan is still alive in the upcoming TOR game and it doesn't matter if you say it's 300 years later and that humans don't live 300 years.


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Old 10-01-2009, 07:34 PM   #79
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^^^I'd like for the villain to be the one who ended Revan and Exile--and that is all for the connection to the previous two games.


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Old 10-01-2009, 09:21 PM   #80
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^ Nah, I'd say leave it a mystery. Things get too tied together in Star Wars lore. 'Aleema Keto may be a 4000 year old ancestor of Serra Keto', 'Darth Vader fights Maul's clone'... just gets kind of flabby after a while, ya know?


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