lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: The Problem of Hell and a Loving God
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 10-26-2009, 06:32 AM   #41
Q
The one who knocks
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ABQ
Posts: 6,643
Current Game: Mowing down neos with my M60
LF Jester Forum Veteran Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
"Necessary" in what way?
I wouldn't pretend to know. The book of Job is probably the closest thing to an explanation for the Satanic challenge of senseless evil as fallen man will ever get, and even there God states that we would not understand the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
You mean to argue that an all-powerful god is simply "playing by the rules"?
He would be hypocrite if He didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Whose rules would those be?
His, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
"a subject with an illogical answer". If you're conceding that there is no logical argument for god...
There is no logical argument for our existence either, but, then, here we are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
...then why are you here? Spam?

That's a no-no too isn't it?
No more so than starting dozens of threads over the years obsessively hammering away at the same point; a point which you cannot conclusively prove (namely that God doesn't exist).


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
Q is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-27-2009, 12:39 AM   #42
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
I wouldn't pretend to know. The book of Job is probably the closest thing to an explanation for the Satanic challenge of senseless evil as fallen man will ever get, and even there God states that we would not understand the answer.
Obviously, we (this includes you) do pretend to know a great many things when it comes to morality. Yet our standards of "moral" and "immoral" differ from "his". The book of job itself makes this obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
He would be hypocrite if He didn't.
Afraid you not only missed the point, but managed to contradict the first part of your post.

If god is all-powerful, then why is he beholden to rules unless they are rules that he himself made. Why would he create rules that limit his options? And why would our rules (rules that most people would consider to be more moral than those demonstrated by god) be "better" than his?

The "we can't know god" defense is either absolute or it is not. It seems more than a little dishonest to use it when it's convenient but ignore it when we think we're justified. It's called "trying to have it both ways".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
His, of course.
Okay. So he's responsible for hell? You are putting forth that they are necessary via his rules and he cannot change them (even though he is allegedly "all-powerful"). So remind me again how this does not contradict the idea of an all-loving god.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
There is no logical argument for our existence either, but, then, here we are.
Of course there is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
No more so than starting dozens of threads over the years obsessively hammering away at the same point; a point which you cannot conclusively prove (namely that God doesn't exist).
I don't need to. Surely, you've been here long enough to see at least one or two posts re: the burden of proof.

You also seem to be way off on your assumptions regarding my motivations. Since you have been around for a while and are so clearly obsessed with what I post, you also know that I've never once stated that I believe that god can be disproved (so your comment above is either dishonest or simply dead wrong).

I'm not here to disprove something I believe can be disproved. I'm here to educate, inform, and hopefully, every once in a while, persuade. Same thing your good buddy does with his israel/palestine threads, etc, etc, etc.

In fact, I would argue that it's what most people who actually contribute to the serious discussion thread attempt to do. The fact that you single me out is just another amusing reminder that if I do in fact have OCD, I'm suffering in good company
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-27-2009, 10:35 AM   #43
Q
The one who knocks
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ABQ
Posts: 6,643
Current Game: Mowing down neos with my M60
LF Jester Forum Veteran Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
You also seem to be way off on your assumptions regarding my motivations.
You seem to forget that you've subjected me to your "methods of persuasion" before. They revealed to myself and anyone who was paying attention that your motivations are not even remotely as wholesome as you'd like everyone to believe. Your continued attempts to paint them as such are laughable.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
Q is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-27-2009, 10:47 AM   #44
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,778
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
I have to wonder which laws you're referring to. The laws that allow abortions for the sake of social convenience? The "law of the jungle" that most parts of the world adhere to? The laws that constrain your speech on the spurious notion that someone might just be offended by it? How about the laws the allow the state to decide, godlike, that you have to die for offenses against "humanity"? Yeah, we're so much better than the God you clearly revile. Which goes to the next point. Whether God/god exists, you're clearly more than a disinterested party that seeks only to educate, in your words, people about the question. You don't bother to argue, it seems, the proof of God's existence because you've already stated He/he is fiction. Also, b/c as you realize, you are incapable. But your inability to disprove such existence doesn't axiomatically settle the issue. Perhaps God exists, perhaps not. It's clearly irrational, though, to contend that He is fiction when you're incapable of demonstrating that conclusion. You clearly enjoy trying to have it both ways yourself, hiding behind a procedural tactic to absolve yourself of having to have conclusive proof of the irrefutability of your stance. Nice.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-27-2009, 11:12 AM   #45
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
You seem to forget that you've subjected me to your "methods of persuasion" before. They revealed to myself and anyone who was paying attention that your motivations are not even remotely as wholesome as you'd like everyone to believe. Your continued attempts to paint them as such are laughable.
Your decision to hold me accountable for what you say is as perplexing as it has always been, however it is far from my problem. Needless to say, you aren't the only one who is amused.

Yes, part of my "methods of persuasion" is to point out when people say things that are logically inconsistent and/or directly contradict other things that they have said. You make this sound like a bad thing. Some people are able to see when they are wrong, re-examine their viewpoints in light of new information, and occasionally, change their minds accordingly. Others are not. Which category you opt to place yourself in is no doing of mine. And the fact that your britches are twisted because you got caught saying something less-than-well-thought-out is also not my problem.

So did you have something to contribute to the topic or no?
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-27-2009, 12:22 PM   #46
Samuel Dravis
 
Samuel Dravis's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,971
Moderator note:

Stay on topic. Member's motivations, wholesome or no, are not the topic. If you have an issue with a person's method of argumentation, point that out instead.


"Words are deeds." - Wittgenstein
Samuel Dravis is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-27-2009, 12:58 AM   #47
lockhead
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 53
Current Game: Rock Band 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
I'm not here to disprove something I believe can be disproved. I'm here to educate, inform, and hopefully, every once in a while, persuade.
You're seeking to try and help build a master race?
lockhead is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Senate Chambers > The Problem of Hell and a Loving God

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:20 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.