lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: On the little value images holds today
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 12-14-2009, 08:17 AM   #1
Ctrl Alt Del
Uncreative User
 
Ctrl Alt Del's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 3,814
Current Game: Dishonored
Forum Veteran 
On the little value images holds today

We've got more than a couple of softwares that promises - and delivers - amazing image editing capabilities for the average user. More than just pimples and red eyes effects removal, it offers the editor the possibility to change just about anything.

Aside from the obvious leisure uses, it also has a play on more serious issues. And that's older than you'd imagine. A known case is that of Lenin picture. Stalin, after taking over the Soviet Union, eliminated all traces of his political rival, Trotsky, from the official pictures with Lenin. That, according to historians, was a measure to distance him from the people. It can be seen below:



On this fairly old scenario wherein what you see doesn't always pass for truth, images should have less value on the trust department. On this case, because they can be closely inspected for discrepancies, words by themselves would be much more reliable. One could object that images can be investigated too, however, as seen on the sample images, even techniques that are more that half a century old leaves little to no clues.

Therefore, an individual, when reading, has his own mind at a state of absolute attention, ready to idetify mistakes, be them deliberate or unintentional. Unlike when this same person is just glancing through an image among many others, with his/her mind set for automatic swalloing of anything thrown at them.


Inspiration

.Bioshock inspiration.
Ctrl Alt Del is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-14-2009, 08:41 AM   #2
The Betrayer
Forumite
 
The Betrayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 716
Current Game: The Godfather II
Helpful! 
A very thought-provoking post, if I would say so myself. I do believe that when shown the second pics from those, I would not be able to believe that there was a Trotsky edited out of them. :O



OMNIA MUTANTUR NIHIL INTERIT.
The Betrayer is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-14-2009, 09:39 AM   #3
Sabretooth
鬼龍院皐月
 
Sabretooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 9,367
10 year veteran! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Betrayal View Post
A very thought-provoking post, if I would say so myself. I do believe that when shown the second pics from those, I would not be able to believe that there was a Trotsky edited out of them. :O
Kind of makes you think that if you ever saw a photo in Soviet Russia, you'd wonder if Trotsky could somehow fit into it. Trotsky could have been a great meme if there were a 4chan in Soviet Russia.


Sabretooth is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-14-2009, 04:46 PM   #4
Litofsky
Galaxial
 
Litofsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
Kind of makes you think that if you ever saw a photo in Soviet Russia, you'd wonder if Trotsky could somehow fit into it. Trotsky could have been a great meme if there were a 4chan in Soviet Russia.
Sorry, Sabre. All improper pieces of paper are to be delivered to the conveniently-located furnaces, no matter the circumstances.
Litofsky is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-14-2009, 07:38 PM   #5
Darth Avlectus
If Sunday you're free...
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Why don't you come with me...
Posts: 4,278
Current Game: Poisoning pigeons in the park.
Actually, while I'm not sure exactly of how long the art of rotoscoping has been around, I do know it had been around for a long long time before it was employed in SW:ANH back in the 70's. (The original lighsaber special effect.) IIRC it was first made in the late nineteen-twenties.

I do know that not only in films but in photography this sort of collage or cut and paste refinishing has been employed many times. The effects took considerably more effort and care on the part of the manipulator. Back in the early daysone had to be particularly clever due to the lack of tools and resources in those times. Though in the B&W/grayscale era everything might also have been easier to change overall. So perhaps the difficulty is relative to the time and availability of things. As well as techniques originally used in the un-edited piece.

Yes I do suppose investigative tactics of testimony and words would yield better results.

Photographic manipulation now no longer requires much talent or ingenuity that it once did. Or having the great complex mind of old times. Probably why so much shoddy work to this end has surfaced lately as the ability to basically do this has become easier and more commonly available.

Indeed it is a powerful yet subtle form of deception. Or lately, advertising.
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-14-2010, 03:51 PM   #6
Qui-Gon Glenn
Necessary Roughneck
 
Qui-Gon Glenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Thessia
Posts: 1,465
Current Game: ME3MP, Arkham Origins
Folder extraordinaire Helpful! Forum Veteran Veteran Modder 
Sorry to resurrect an oldie, but this is actually in my wheelhouse, if I have one. Reminds me a lot of the Barn Facade case.... or even the Meditations. This type of deception is taken to a whole new level, in that our eyes see everything in the image/photo correctly, and yet do not see what is really there. Our eyes in this case are not what is deceiving us, however. An evil geniu... a jerk is deceiving us, using our most trusted sensory perception against us - seeing is believing, correctly or no.

In summary - images cannot be trusted when seen live with your own eyes, far less so when seen in print.

This is a different conclusion though, than what your thread title suggests. As GTA:SWcity noted, advertising makes great use of images/imagery, and so in that sense images hold tremendous value today, perhaps more value than ever, even if the image is a construct.
Qui-Gon Glenn is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-22-2010, 07:39 PM   #7
Ctrl Alt Del
Uncreative User
 
Ctrl Alt Del's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 3,814
Current Game: Dishonored
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn View Post
This is a different conclusion though, than what your thread title suggests. As GTA:SWcity noted, advertising makes great use of images/imagery, and so in that sense images hold tremendous value today, perhaps more value than ever, even if the image is a construct.
It does has an unhealthy value indeed, but it shouldn't. And that's what my title refers to. I also present an alternative - words - to the currently mostly accepted, once full of factual value, pictures.


Inspiration

.Bioshock inspiration.
Ctrl Alt Del is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-22-2010, 09:01 PM   #8
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,916
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
More of our brain is devoted to vision than any other single process. It comes as no surprise to me that images are very powerful tools for use and abuse.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Community > Kavar's Corner > On the little value images holds today

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:48 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.