lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: The Confirmed Truth Behind Revan & Malak
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 12-20-2009, 02:48 PM   #41
Astor
It's Thornhill!
 
Astor's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 3,632
Current Game: The Old Republic
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran Helpful! 
C'mon guys, let's not start ridiculing people because of their spelling abilities. Not everyone has the same command of the English language, and not everyone has English as a first language.

I agree, any further comments about people's language abilities in this thread will result in infractions being issued; please get back on topic people -- j7







Last edited by jonathan7; 12-20-2009 at 03:29 PM.
Astor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-20-2009, 04:05 PM   #42
Litofsky
Galaxial
 
Litofsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,546
After reading over this thread, I can't help but agree with the majority: it seems that the developers want to disassemble all of the ideas that TSL laid down, and stick with their ideas about Revan. Way to keep to canon.

At any rate, I was iffy about the game being from the beginning, what with all of us having to pay monthly for the game. Destroying the a decent plot to fit in with their game is just another kick while we're down.
Litofsky is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2010, 06:47 AM   #43
Brin_Londo5
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15
Y'know, considering that TSL was an unfinished and badly-enacted retcon of KotOR in the first place, I'm not feeling any outrage at TOR at all.

Retcon #1 (and the most egregious, in my opinion) was the (Krea's) claim that the Jedi Council wiped Darth Revan's memories and then gave him a new identity loyal to the Republic, but all statements concerning this in KotOR stated simply that the Jedi Council couldn't RESTORE Revan's personality "since Revan was too dangerous"; to me this implies that Revan's loss of memory was more due to cerebral damage that the turbolaser explosion on the bridge inflicted by Malak's attack before Bastilla saved Revan's life.

Add to this the (completely fanon) idea that Krea is Arren Kae (and thus the Handmaiden's mommy), the near-ineffectiveness of the Exile (who can't seem to make a lightsaber without an engineer on hand, or even WITH one if the previous ten years is accounted for), and the Fixer-Sue characters that continually save the day, I'd say let TSL die a slow death.

The only reason I still play it is that my newer quad-core processor PC has no problem running the TSL software, while KotOR itself crashes every fifteen seconds or so (still haven't gotten off the Endar Spire on this new rig, and I might not ever.)
If it wasn't for the Ultimate Saber Mod, I'd have retired TSL a year ago, and stuck to Jedi Academy.

Last edited by Brin_Londo5; 01-29-2010 at 02:14 PM.
Brin_Londo5 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2010, 06:49 PM   #44
deathdisco
Bastards of Young
 
deathdisco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Left of the Dial
Posts: 717
Veteran Modder Contest winner - Modding 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5 View Post
Y'know, considering that TSL was an unfinished and badly-enacted retcon of KotOR in the first place, I'm not feeling any outrage at TOR at all.

Retcon #1 (and the most egregious, in my opinion) was the (Krea's) claim that the Jedi Council wiped Darth Revan's memories and then gave him a new identity loyal to the Republic, but all statements concerning this in KotOR stated simply that the Jedi Council couldn't RESTORE Revan's personality "since Revan was too dangerous"; to me this implies that Revan's loss of memory was more due to cerebral damage that the turbolaser explosion on the bridge inflicted by Malak's attack before Bastilla saved Revan's life.
I agree that it's a contradiction, It also changes the magnitude of what the Jedi Masters did.
Either they were just taking advantage of an opportunity that presented itself or they completely mind raped Revan. The latter I find to be questionable ethics on the Jedi Council's part.
Regardless this was established before TSL was released so blame Lucasarts/Lucas Licensing for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5 View Post
Add to this the (completely fanon) idea that Krea is Arren Kae (and thus the Handmaiden's mommy), the near-ineffectiveness of the Exile (who can't seem to make a lightsaber without an engineer on hand, or even WITH one if the previous ten years is accounted for), and the Fixer-Sue characters that continually save the day, I'd say let TSL die a slow death.
There's nothing fanon about it. There's plenty of evidence in the game to support it. Even Chris Avellone has alluded to it. Again Lucasarts/Lucas Licensing has final say on the matter and they have yet to reveal anything on Kreia's backstory.
The lighsaber quest is only game-play mechanics to try to balance the game. That's why they make you wait to build a lightsaber. Also the PC had no reason to have a lightsaber while exiled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5 View Post
The only reason I still play it is that my newer quad-core processor PC has no problem running the TSL software, while KotOR itself crashes every fifteen seconds or so (still haven't gotten off the Endar Spire on this new rig, and I might not ever.)
If it wasn't for the Ultimate Saber Mod, I'd have retired TSL a year ago, and stuck to Jedi Academy.
Maybe you should look into playing a different game instead of enduring such punishment.

deathdisco is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2010, 07:36 PM   #45
TKA-001
I sneer at thee.
 
TKA-001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,535
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Either they were just taking advantage of an opportunity that presented itself or they completely mind raped Revan. The latter I find to be questionable ethics on the Jedi Council's part.
What happened to Revan's mind wasn't changed. His brain got ****ed up when Malak betrayed him (having a landmine go off under your feet can do that to ya). If Kreia does indeed say that the Jedi Council mind-wiped Revan (I don't recall when or where she ever says this in the game. As far as I know, she hardly at all talks about what happens to him between his capture and Malak's Death), then the obvious explanation is that either she's making an assumption (since she sure as hell wasn't present for any of those events) or ignoring the facts because she's a Revan fangirl. Regardless of whether Kreia believes she's telling the truth about this matter (again, assuming that she says anything about it at all), the fact of the matter is that it's the word of Kreia, who was not there, against the word of Bastila and the other Jedi, who were there.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
TKA-001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2010, 08:17 PM   #46
jonathan7
Exiled Jedi...
 
jonathan7's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 3,676
Contest winner - Modding LFN Staff Member Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5 View Post
Y'know, considering that TSL was an unfinished and badly-enacted retcon of KotOR in the first place, I'm not feeling any outrage at TOR at all.
I really don't see how it was a badly enacted retcon of KotOR; I really like TSL; I know the game is divisive, but I don't personally see how it retcons TSL, unless you happen to believe what Kreia tells you - and I'd say regard everything she says with an air of scepticism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5 View Post
Retcon #1 (and the most egregious, in my opinion) was the (Krea's) claim that the Jedi Council wiped Darth Revan's memories and then gave him a new identity loyal to the Republic, but all statements concerning this in KotOR stated simply that the Jedi Council couldn't RESTORE Revan's personality "since Revan was too dangerous"; to me this implies that Revan's loss of memory was more due to cerebral damage that the turbolaser explosion on the bridge inflicted by Malak's attack before Bastilla saved Revan's life.
See, I disagree, I'd say even within K1 it is hinted at that the Jedi Masters gave him a Republic loyal personality; consider the revelation video and Bastila saying "What greater weapon is there, than to turn an enemy to your cause". Furthermore Kreia just states that the Jedi Masters just revealed the true Revan again; she doesn't say they "mind raped" him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5 View Post
Add to this the (completely fanon) idea that Krea is Arren Kae (and thus the Handmaiden's mommy), the near-ineffectiveness of the Exile (who can't seem to make a lightsaber without an engineer on hand, or even WITH one if the previous ten years is accounted for), and the Fixer-Sue characters that continually save the day, I'd say let TSL die a slow death.
Given the evidence, I don't think we can really conclude much on the Arren Kae/Kreia side of things; I'm sure if there was an intention they were the same person that, that will be retconned out of existence. Personally I like the Arren Kae/Kreia theory, despite your condescension of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5 View Post
The only reason I still play it is that my newer quad-core processor PC has no problem running the TSL software, while KotOR itself crashes every fifteen seconds or so (still haven't gotten off the Endar Spire on this new rig, and I might not ever.)
If it wasn't for the Ultimate Saber Mod, I'd have retired TSL a year ago, and stuck to Jedi Academy.
See, I really like K2 because it returned Star Wars to being far more gritty, like the first two films were opposed to the happy kids films, that Lucas took the series in the direction of.



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
jonathan7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2010, 08:43 PM   #47
Ghost
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in your head
Posts: 478
Current Game: NBA 2k11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
Y'know, considering that TSL was an unfinished and badly-enacted retcon of KotOR in the first place
True it was unfinished, but that does not mean it was bad. Sure it could have been better, but I really don't see how it is as bad as you think

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
Retcon #1 (and the most egregious, in my opinion) was the (Krea's) claim that the Jedi Council wiped Darth Revan's memories and then gave him a new identity loyal to the Republic, but all statements concerning this in KotOR stated simply that the Jedi Council couldn't RESTORE Revan's personality "since Revan was too dangerous"; to me this implies that Revan's loss of memory was more due to cerebral damage that the turbolaser explosion on the bridge inflicted by Malak's attack before Bastilla saved Revan's life.
If you played Kotor, then you would know that they hinted that they wiped his memory and gave him a pet one. Remember in Revelations? I do know that Revan did take a serious blow during that attack, but it never really did any permanent damage, as TSL states when Revan remembers the Unknown Threat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
Add to this the (completely fanon) idea that Krea is Arren Kae (and thus the Handmaiden's mommy)
It is not confirmed that Kreia is Kae, but there is plenty of evidence. On youtube plenty of videos sum up dialogue which lead to that Kreia could possibly be Kae. But there is no true conclusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
, the near-ineffectiveness of the Exile (who can't seem to make a lightsaber without an engineer on hand, or even WITH one if the previous ten years is accounted for)
Do you even know what Exile mean's? Look it up. The Exile was no longer a jedi, and thus had no worthiness of keeping jedi items. I highly doubt the Exile would care for a lightsaber right after she was exiled. Plus, 10 years is a long time. The Exile probably wanted to forget entirely about the Jedi due to their arrogance and fear. That would probably also explain why she also forgot how to construct a lightsaber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
, and the Fixer-Sue characters that continually save the day
What's so wrong with that? The NPCs are pretty much actually what inspired the Exile to continue. And, to tell you the truth, TSL is not the "defeat the evil sith and save the day" type game. It is pretty much a knowledgeable darker plot which makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
I'd say let TSL die a slow death.
Well, its TSL which inspired people to mod Kotor in the 1st place. There was so much cut content that people wanted to restore it. TSL is the mark which keep the community alive. So, right now it is coming back, thanks to TSLRCM

I personally like TSL because it is dark. More suited for the older age group. You need to really listen in the game to understand.
Ghost is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2010, 08:57 PM   #48
Blix
Veteran
 
Blix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Aboard the Ravager
Posts: 865
Current Game: Morrowind & Dark Arisen
Hmm meeting an ancient Sith Emperor in unknown space, yes that would explain why Revan left everyone behind (at least a motive) to seek these "true Sith" and destroy them (as much as I hate the idea of a Sith Emperor, just don't let it be Naga Sadow).
Now it sort of makes me wonder if Revan corrupted Kreia (instead of the other way around) by taking her to Trayus Academy on Malachor V (Sith Emperor probably told him where to look).

To add onto the Revan/memory topic, all sorts of hints are dropped right in front of the player's eyes and Master Vrook made perhaps the most obvious hint: "I fear this search for the Star Forge may lead you down an all too familiar path."HmmmH



Last edited by Blix; 01-29-2010 at 09:07 PM.
Blix is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2010, 09:00 PM   #49
jonathan7
Exiled Jedi...
 
jonathan7's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 3,676
Contest winner - Modding LFN Staff Member Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blix View Post
Now it sort of makes me wonder if Revan corrupted Kreia (instead of the other way around) by taking her to Trayus Academy on Malachor V (Sith Emperor probably told him where to look).
I don't think Kreia corrupted Revan; especially if you believe her that it was Revan's choice/sacrifice to become a Dark Lord...

Besides in the Chronicles that were on the games official site prior to release the following was recorded;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Part XII: The Feeding of Malachor V
JEDI MASTER KREIA, Revan's old mentor, is still haunted by guilt, wondering whether it was her teaching that resulted in Revan's fall to the dark side, and begins to search for him. Sensing his last location, she travels to Malachor V, but is unable to shield her emotions, and is completely consumed by the dark side of the Force. She is lost to the Jedi, spending the next several years on Malachor V, learning its secrets, and eventually becoming The master of the Sith academy there. Guided by Kreia's influence, Sith assassins once again begin to emerge silently from Malachor V and strike at isolated Jedi across the Republic, capturing some Jedi to turn to the dark side, and slaying those that resist. Taken to the dark side world of Malachor V to be fed to the planet's dark energies, these Jedi husks create even more assassins and DARK JEDI, feeding the planet's hunger.
The Chronicles currently have a home here; Click Me



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
jonathan7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-29-2010, 11:22 PM   #50
deathdisco
Bastards of Young
 
deathdisco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Left of the Dial
Posts: 717
Veteran Modder Contest winner - Modding 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKA-001 View Post
What happened to Revan's mind wasn't changed. His brain got ****ed up when Malak betrayed him (having a landmine go off under your feet can do that to ya). If Kreia does indeed say that the Jedi Council mind-wiped Revan (I don't recall when or where she ever says this in the game. As far as I know, she hardly at all talks about what happens to him between his capture and Malak's Death), then the obvious explanation is that either she's making an assumption (since she sure as hell wasn't present for any of those events) or ignoring the facts because she's a Revan fangirl. Regardless of whether Kreia believes she's telling the truth about this matter (again, assuming that she says anything about it at all), the fact of the matter is that it's the word of Kreia, who was not there, against the word of Bastila and the other Jedi, who were there.
It all depends how damaged his mind was. Bastila says it was too damaged to fully restore his memories but we know that eventually he does regain them.
Was it programed to fill in what was missing(blank slate) or was it reprogramed to suppress the "Darth Revan" persona?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastila's SW Databank entry
Bastila was instrumental in the last great Republic riposte against Darth Malak and Darth Revan, splitting the pair and conquering one of the Sith Lords. The Jedi Council had learned sketchy details about the Sith plot involving the Star Forge, but needed more information in order to stop it. They crafted a devious and controversial plan into which Bastila Shan figured prominently.

The captive Revan underwent a memory wipe, and was given a new identity. This new persona was paired with Bastila Shan in the search for Darth Malak and the Star Forge
. Bastila kept a wary eye on Revan, always alert at signs of the dark side. Such an awareness opened her to the dark side more than she intended. The quest for the Star Forge, which spanned worlds, kept Revan and Bastila working side-by-side, and thrust Bastila into difficult and challenging roles as a Jedi.
Emphasis mine.
Source.

deathdisco is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-30-2010, 02:48 PM   #51
TKA-001
I sneer at thee.
 
TKA-001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,535
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Was it programed to fill in what was missing(blank slate) or was it reprogramed to suppress the "Darth Revan" persona?
I'd say a little of both (his mind was not entirely blown up, so he had some memories left but they were all ****ed up & incoherent, so they "wiped" that excess gobbledygook when they programmed in the fake past). I'd rather just say the first one (because that's how it is explained as in KotOR, but there's no other way to reconcile the sources. Still, I'd almost bet money that the only reason that article says that the Council planned to reprogram Revan from the beginning is because whoever wrote that has a ****ed-up brain and thought that that's how the game said it was (the game itself says that the original point of the mission was just to kill or capture Darth Revan, nothing about reprogramming him until after they find out he's brain-damaged).

Furthermore, don't the Jedi Masters on Dantooine say they've never heard of the Star Forge before at all?


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
TKA-001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-30-2010, 05:40 PM   #52
Darth Avlectus
If Sunday you're free...
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Why don't you come with me...
Posts: 4,275
Current Game: Poisoning pigeons in the park.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
I don't think it's said that the Sith Emperor was responsible for their fall the dark side. Instead, I think it is implied that he was the one who made them Sith (which, if you think about it, would mean that Revan, Malak, and all of their followers were indeed true Sith, despite what Kreia said). Remember, falling to the dark side and joining the Sith are not the same thing, and they need not necessarily occur at once.
True. While Exar Kun had fallen, Ulic Qel Droma wasn't as committed to the dark side. The spirit of that ancient sith lord Naga Sadow more or less 'inducted' both of them into the sith order.



Quote:
Dude, I believe we (collectively) have been through this many times on these forums now: The "true Sith" mentioned in the loading screen was obviously a throw-away line that they intended to do nothing with. And it clearly does not refer to the same group that Kreia refers to. In the loading screen, seems clear (sorry to be so redundant here) that "true Sith" refers to the Sith species seen in the Tales of the Jedi comics, in order to differentiate between them and the mostly human Sith seen in the game.
I believe in addition to this it is chronicled somewhere in EU that the sith species actually died out.


Quote:
The "true Sith" mentioned in The Sith Lords originally referred to something else entirely, having nothing to do with the line of succession that was a hybrid of the Sith species and the exiled Dark Jedi from the Hundred-Year Darkness (despite the claims LucasArts is making to the contrary now, Obsidian clearly had something else in mind back when they made the game);
I agree. We're not "just some small band of people who happens to dislike it along with any other release", we actually see what's happening. An about-face where LA decided in its infinite wisdom to change something in mid-stride. I wonder now if LA isn't bluprinting their things based on a "retcon-cameo-rehash" basis. Certainly would make sense given what we're seeing, and have continued to see.

Quote:
but now it refers to the remnant of the Old Sith Empire that has been plotting in secret from the Unknown Regions, fleeing known space after the Great Hyperspace war.

Sorry to sound so snappy, but I'm getting a little tired of people trying to point out that the "true Sith" idea came from the first game when it obviously did not.
Well, isn't there that one mention by canderous in K1 that it hadn't originally been the mandalorians' idea to attck? Shem brought up some pictures of it some time back... Something about a mention of ancient sith that sealed themselves away from the galaxy after the war started. Still could have been idealist remnants, as that vader-malak-esque guy in the Deceived trailer looked to be still pretty human.

Quote:
In fact, I doubt very much that BioWare ever anticipated that that one line from the loading screen - which was obviously used without much thought to describe something very simple to the audience - would gain so much attention later on.
Neither did any of us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Litofsky View Post
After reading over this thread, I can't help but agree with the majority: it seems that the developers want to disassemble all of the ideas that TSL laid down, and stick with their ideas about Revan. Way to keep to canon.

At any rate, I was iffy about the game being from the beginning, what with all of us having to pay monthly for the game. Destroying the a decent plot to fit in with their game is just another kick while we're down.
I agree. While it is going on the true sith idea in TSL and a few other small things about it.

Like this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5 View Post
Y'know, considering that TSL was an unfinished and badly-enacted retcon of KotOR in the first place, I'm not feeling any outrage at TOR at all.
That's your opinion. Not fact.

I happen to think TSL was great and could have been so much better had LA not been a bunch of greedy b@$t@rd$.

Quote:
Retcon #1 (and the most egregious, in my opinion) was the (Krea's) claim that the Jedi Council wiped Darth Revan's memories and then gave him a new identity loyal to the Republic,
IIRC Darth Malak said the same thing upon Revan's memory of who we was. So that's not exactly retcon.

Quote:
but all statements concerning this in KotOR stated simply that the Jedi Council couldn't RESTORE Revan's personality "since Revan was too dangerous"; to me this implies that Revan's loss of memory was more due to cerebral damage that the turbolaser explosion on the bridge inflicted by Malak's attack before Bastilla saved Revan's life.
Oh? I thought Revan remembered it later on? Hence he went to the outer rim to face the threat?

That implies the council chose not to recover the memories of "Revan" because having a dark lord on their hands was
1) going to be impossible to sway back to the light
2) too dangerous
3) too vital to simply execute because of what he knew

If you think they ALL don't execute their prisoners, I only need remind you of Mace Windu...or let's go back some: Ulic Qel Droma and how the jedi were presiding over the senate about to execute Ulic Qel Droma. True the jedi weren't DOING the execution but even if you play with semantics this way, Jedi standing by and intent on watching the execution is about the same as doing it.


Quote:
Add to this the (completely fanon) idea that Krea is Arren Kae (and thus the Handmaiden's mommy),
Hmm, let's see...
Disciple said Arren Kae was Revan's first instructor.
Kreia knew a lot about Arren Kae.
Arren Kae WAS Brianna's mother.
Kreia seemed to discourage a male exile from wanting to mate with Brianna.
There's probably more, but...

Ok, there is nothing that DEFINITIVELY makes that link, but that cuts both was as there issn't anything that definitively DISPROVES it, either.
...However Chris Avellone wrote TSL and when questioned upon that point he said he couldn't comment but "nice catch" which implies he had something to do with the implied idea. He's prevented from saying any more because of LA.

Quote:
the near-ineffectiveness of the Exile (who can't seem to make a lightsaber without an engineer on hand, or even WITH one if the previous ten years is accounted for),
That was a game mechanism for those who may be first time players. :¬:
Furthermore, the exile seemed to have some issue with building another since her exile, regardless what dialogue options you chose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
*brevity*
Nice catch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by deathdisco View Post
It all depends how damaged his mind was. Bastila says it was too damaged to fully restore his memories but we know that eventually he does regain them.
Implying some opportunistic selective recovery of his memories.

Quote:
Was it programed to fill in what was missing(blank slate) or was it reprogramed to suppress the "Darth Revan" persona?
Both in a sort of way, fill in the blanks at first but the whole time supress the memories from coming back as long as posible, though they perhaps knew one day Revan would remember.

Quote:
<bervity (source)>
Another nice catch.


We'll murder them all, amid laughter and merriment...except for the few we take home to experiment!

"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy

Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 01-30-2010 at 05:53 PM.
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-30-2010, 11:49 PM   #53
deathdisco
Bastards of Young
 
deathdisco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Left of the Dial
Posts: 717
Veteran Modder Contest winner - Modding 
As far as the state of Revan's damaged mind, I go with what was explained in game.
Especially since Drew Karpyshyn was the lead writer. In reference to his "Dynasty of Evil" book Drew blogged:
Quote:
So, if you haven't read the book I'll just state that I am a proponent of the reliable narrator. If the narrator tells you something, you can believe it. I don't try to trick the reader; I won't lie to you in the narrator's voice. Keep that in mind and the ending should be clear.
I'm only pointing out that what's been established after the fact(retcon), casts the actions of the the Jedi masters in a different light.

Can you imagine the scene on top of the Rakatan temple summit with Bastila if she had said 'oh, BTW you memories were fine. The Jedi Council just decided to make you their B****!'

deathdisco is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 04:28 AM   #54
Brin_Londo5
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnathon-Mk II View Post
If you played Kotor,
Don't even go there, my wife complained when I had to buy a newer copy of KotOR because the original play disc was so scratched up I couldn't use it to reinstall, I'd played it so often.

Quote:
then you would know that they hinted that they wiped his memory and gave him a pet one. Remember in Revelations? I do know that Revan did take a serious blow during that attack, but it never really did any permanent damage, as TSL states when Revan remembers the Unknown Threat
Which, except for one throw-away line by Malak, who (like Kreia) wasn't there, is entirely Kreia's word, she of the self-contradictory statements, habitual lies, and bald-faced proclamations about multiple things that she herself was not there for.
To quote my post in the "A message for Bioware: Please think of the TSL fans" thread: that's the thing that drives me up the wall about the TSL crowd, they KNOW that Kreia lies about EVERYTHING, and yet they treat her words (no matter how self-contradictory they are) as if they descended from the heavens on fifty-foot stone slabs with flaming writing inscribed upon them, direct from Canon heaven. Mind you, my wording was a bit harsh, but it remains essentially true, Kreia's an utter nutcase (albeit a seemingly sane-appearing one at first glance), yet to the more fanatical TSL gamers she's always truthful, apparently, even when she's tellimg bald-faced lies.


Quote:
Well, its TSL which inspired people to mod Kotor in the 1st place. There was so much cut content that people wanted to restore it.
Wrong, modders were modding KotOR before that, mods like Revan's Mask and Revan's Mask +, Segan Whynds Sabers, the Carth Romance Fix, and other mods, long before TSLRCM was a twinkle in the communities eyes.

Quote:
I personally like TSL because it is dark. More suited for the older age group. You need to really listen in the game to understand.
Go ahead and Like it all you want, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of the retconned "facts" you guys grip so tightly to happen to be based on the words of a (fictional) madwoman with a penchant for grandiose statements and pathological lies.

As for your assumption on my age, let me just say I've been paying taxes since the mid 1980's, so apparently the "older age group" is in their late 50's and 60's.

Last edited by Brin_Londo5; 01-31-2010 at 04:44 AM.
Brin_Londo5 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 11:37 AM   #55
Alexrd
Senior Member
 
Alexrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portugal
Posts: 2,173
Current Game: UEFA Euro 2004
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnathon-Mk II View Post
I personally like TSL because it is dark. More suited for the older age group.
How are these two statements related?
Alexrd is online now   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 11:38 AM   #56
Ghost
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in your head
Posts: 478
Current Game: NBA 2k11
<snipped>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
Which, except for one throw-away line by Malak, who (like Kreia) wasn't there, is entirely Kreia's word, she of the self-contradictory statements, habitual lies, and bald-faced proclamations about multiple things that she herself was not there for.
You are basing that entirely off opinion. Kreia is Kreia. She played an important role in TSL. If you are as blind, immature, and stupid as you show, then you obviously never understood TSL. The game was a learning experience, not a happy happy joy joy kids event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
To quote my post in the "A message for Bioware: Please think of the TSL fans" thread: that's the thing that drives me up the wall about the TSL crowd,
Why? What did they do to you? You can't change people's opinions of TSL. Just because you hate it doesn't give you the right to make fun and downgrade those who like it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
Kreia lies about EVERYTHING. Kreia's an utter nutcase (albeit a seemingly sane-appearing one at first glance)
That's fine. Source of your information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
Wrong, modders were modding KotOR before that, mods like Revan's Mask and Revan's Mask +, Segan Whynds Sabers, the Carth Romance Fix, and other mods, long before TSLRCM was a twinkle in the communities eyes.
Well, yes people modded Kotor before, but TSL had so much cut content, it inspired MORE modders to mod for Kotor and TSL. So before you say I'm wrong, look at other people's posts, say LoH in DeadlyStream. He gathered information about the Mods for TSL. link

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
and yet they treat her words (no matter how self-contradictory they are) as if they descended from the heavens on fifty-foot stone slabs with flaming writing inscribed upon them, direct from Canon heaven.
<snipped> Further note, you continue responding to posters like this and you won't be welcome here -- j7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
Mind you, my wording was a bit harsh
Well Well Well, truth after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
yet to the more fanatical TSL gamers she's always truthful, apparently, even when she's tellimg bald-faced lies.
Hmm, when I played, I noticed most of what she says is partially lies. But she also tells the truth. That was her purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
Go ahead and Like it all you want, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of the retconned "facts" you guys grip so tightly to happen to be based on the words of a (fictional) madwoman with a penchant for grandiose statements and pathological lies.
If she's mad then why do people call her very wise? Because she very much so teaches things that you learn in real life. Sure she lies sometimes, but that is part of the plot. If she told the truth 24/7, then there would be nothing to reveal further ingame, and would ruin the rest of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
As for your assumption on my age, let me just say I've been paying taxes since the mid 1980's, so apparently the "older age group" is in their late 50's and 60's.
<snipped>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexrd
How are these two statements related?
They are opinions, I stated them just to prove my point

Last edited by jonathan7; 01-31-2010 at 07:42 PM. Reason: Snipped flames -- j7
Ghost is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 12:07 PM   #57
TKA-001
I sneer at thee.
 
TKA-001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,535
Forum Veteran 
Like a penny calling a dime "Little man"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnathon-Mk II
That's fine. Source of your information?
Maybe the ****ing game? Just an idea.

If you two are going to argue about this, you should cite actual examples from said ****ing game, else you're both blowing hot air around.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia

Last edited by Jae Onasi; 02-01-2010 at 02:44 AM. Reason: deleted response to now-deleted comment
TKA-001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 02:01 PM   #58
Ctrl Alt Del
Uncreative User
 
Ctrl Alt Del's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 3,814
Current Game: Dishonored
Forum Veteran 
I promised myself to keep away from these discussion since a good time ago. Simply because the lack of news regarding the franchise led me to think we'd run out of issues regarding the games and we'd be running around in vicious circles. It seems I was right, just posting to rectify what seems to be intentionally spread misinformation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnathon-Mk II View Post
Well, yes people modded Kotor before, but TSL had so much cut content, it inspired MORE modders to mod for Kotor and TSL. So before you say I'm wrong, look at other people's posts, say LoH in DeadlyStream. He gathered information about the Mods for TSL. link
With all due respect to LoH and his mods, all his team's work did was broadening the possibilities. Long before him, modders were already on their hard work of changing the games without the fancy tools we have today but the original Fred Tetra's toolset. And some of the most inspired mods date from that time.


Inspiration

.Bioshock inspiration.

Last edited by Jae Onasi; 02-01-2010 at 02:46 AM. Reason: deleted response to now-deleted post
Ctrl Alt Del is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 02:16 PM   #59
Brin_Londo5
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15
I wasn't trying to insult everyone who likes TSL, just the ones who seem to take Obsidians retcons of the events portrayed in the original KotOR as somehow higher canon than the KotOR creators actual in-game statements.

C'mon, guys, remember, this is Kreia's statements I'm talking about, and she wasn't even there for 99% of the stuff she's preaching on. It's like taking a hobo in Kansas's word about the Dalai Lama over that of people who'd actually met the guy.

I'd rather take Bastilla and the Jedi council's word over the words of Kreia as to what happened, seeing as how they were there and she wasn't.
Brin_Londo5 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 03:52 PM   #60
Ghost
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in your head
Posts: 478
Current Game: NBA 2k11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
I believe he knows that. Doesn't keep anyone from answering you, though.
Yes, I know. I just responded to their posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
I wasn't trying to insult everyone who likes TSL, just the ones who seem to take Obsidians retcons of the events portrayed in the original KotOR as somehow higher canon than the KotOR creators actual in-game statements.
There is no such thing as "higher canon" actually, Everything is equally canon And Obsidian does not "retcon" as you say things. They added their own story, because they felt Kotor needed a plot that was original, not the same thing we see every time in the movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
C'mon, guys, remember, this is Kreia's statements I'm talking about, and she wasn't even there for 99% of the stuff she's preaching on
If she wasn't there, then how does she know so much about the Mandalorian Wars or the Jedi Civil War? Not even the Jedi Historians knew what really happened out there. This is where the Kae/Kreia theory comes in. And, actually, this topic is supposed to be on Revan and Malak, not Kreia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5
I'd rather take Bastilla and the Jedi council's word over the words of Kreia as to what happened, seeing as how they were there and she wasn't.
Actually, Bastila and the Jedi Council never entered the Mandalorian Wars, they just sat on their chairs and "meditated" on what to do like imbeciles, which is one of the reasons why Kreia hates the Jedi, for their arrogance and lack of knowledge and action. The Jedi Council did not do much action in the JCW. They weren't on the front lines, and Bastila was only in a few battles. Kreia also worked in secret on Malachor with her two apprentices, Nihilus and Sion. But she had someway of knowing what happened during the JCW. If not, then how did she tell the player so much on what happened during when the player was travelling during his/her exile?

Last edited by Ghost; 01-31-2010 at 03:57 PM.
Ghost is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 04:34 PM   #61
TKA-001
I sneer at thee.
 
TKA-001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,535
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnathon-Mk II View Post
There is no such thing as "higher canon" actually, Everything is equally canon
Look up what you're talking about before you talk about it.

Quote:
Not even the Jedi Historians knew what really happened out there.
What information do you base this conclusion on?

Quote:
Actually, Bastila and the Jedi Council never entered the Mandalorian Wars, they just sat on their chairs and "meditated" on what to do like imbeciles,
Recently (by which I mean half a year ago) debunked by the comic Knights of the Old Republic 42: Masks, which shows that Revan's Jedi were actually supported by the Council and their followers basically from the beginning (after the Order learned about what had happened to Cathar).


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
TKA-001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 06:24 PM   #62
Ghost
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in your head
Posts: 478
Current Game: NBA 2k11
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKA-001
Look up what you're talking about before you talk about it.
Oh but I did. What I ment was theres canon and theres non-canon, and then theres fanon.

Quote:
What information do you base this conclusion on?
The fact that they only followed them so far, that they never really knew what happened at Malachor.

Quote:
Recently (by which I mean half a year ago) debunked by the comic Knights of the Old Republic 42: Masks, which shows that Revan's Jedi were actually supported by the Council and their followers basically from the beginning (after the Order learned about what had happened to Cathar).
Hmm, from what I read the Order did not follow them. They wanted to "asses" the threat. In the Mando wars, it was the Revanchists, not the Order, which supported the Republic during the war. The Revanchists had to act on their own, or so I heard, because The Order did not follow Revan to the Unknown did they? Nor Malachor, or Serroco? I base my information from what I learned from the games, the comics, etc.

Last edited by Ghost; 01-31-2010 at 07:11 PM.
Ghost is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 07:21 PM   #63
TKA-001
I sneer at thee.
 
TKA-001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,535
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
The fact that they only followed them so far, that they never really knew what happened at Malachor.
Can you be even slightly more specific about where this fact comes from?

Quote:
I base my information from what I learned from the games, the comics, etc.
We have the comics confirming that the Jedi Crusaders were supported by the rest, but you're saying that they weren't?


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
TKA-001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 08:07 PM   #64
Ghost
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in your head
Posts: 478
Current Game: NBA 2k11
Didn't Kotor and Kotor 2 say that the Jedi did not send the rest into the unknown? The battle of Malachor was fought with those loyal to Revan. Some of the Revanchists who were still loyal to the council were stategically sacrificed for Revan's sake. The party members in both games, Bastila and Atton say that the Jedi did not send their party, rather Revan recruited them.
Ghost is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-31-2010, 11:13 PM   #65
TKA-001
I sneer at thee.
 
TKA-001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,535
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
The battle of Malachor was fought with those loyal to Revan.
Talk to HK-47 in TSL with high influence. He'll tell you that the majority of the Republic people at Malachor were people who were not loyal to Revan.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
TKA-001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-01-2010, 02:43 AM   #66
adamqd
Jedi vs Sith
 
adamqd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,195
Forum Veteran The Walking Carpets Guild Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnathon-Mk II View Post
Oh but I did. What I ment was theres canon and theres non-canon, and then theres fanon.


Actually there is G-Canon, C-Canon, T-Canon, Non-Canon, and Fanon... and I think there's a Jae Onasi canon, but that one makes my Brain hurt


adamqd is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-01-2010, 02:54 AM   #67
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,916
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd View Post
Actually there is G-Canon, C-Canon, T-Canon, Non-Canon, and Fanon... and I think there's a Jae Onasi canon, but that one makes my Brain hurt
That's right, we can't forget Jae-canon.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-01-2010, 05:59 PM   #68
Brin_Londo5
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi View Post
That's right, we can't forget Jae-canon.
Just as long as there's not Ion-Canon, I'd hate to have to rebuild this rig after spending all the cash to build it in the first place...
Brin_Londo5 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-01-2010, 11:44 PM   #69
Darth Avlectus
If Sunday you're free...
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Why don't you come with me...
Posts: 4,275
Current Game: Poisoning pigeons in the park.
^^^I believe that's actually spelled cannon.

Making high voltage generators for producing ions isn't difficult, but can be expensive and dangerous. It may also require any of several other devices or means to achieve your intended aim.

Pyro arc devices are fun to make, and you only need a CRT television that has nothing functionally wrong except that the tube is dead. --And someone who 1) knows whut tha flock they're doin', and 2) likes to light things on fire.


We'll murder them all, amid laughter and merriment...except for the few we take home to experiment!

"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-02-2010, 11:30 AM   #70
Ctrl Alt Del
Uncreative User
 
Ctrl Alt Del's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 3,814
Current Game: Dishonored
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
^^^I believe that's actually spelled cannon.
If it was this kind of cannon. You certainly know it's canon as in short for canonic, dear GTA.


Inspiration

.Bioshock inspiration.
Ctrl Alt Del is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-08-2010, 08:55 PM   #71
Darth Avlectus
If Sunday you're free...
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Why don't you come with me...
Posts: 4,275
Current Game: Poisoning pigeons in the park.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del View Post
If it was this kind of cannon. You certainly know it's canon as in short for canonic, dear GTA.
Indeed.

Though I do know how to build at least some ion emitting electrical devices IRL. Voltage magnifiers are actually fairly simple.

[HK-47]Cautionary: Master, I should warn you that any attempt at building such said device is entirely at your own risk of damage to your own person, persons around you, and potentially all other devices within an affected vicinity.

Commentary: Personally I would rather enjoy a barrage of electrical energy frying and killing all nearby organics--except for you of course.
[/HK-47]


We'll murder them all, amid laughter and merriment...except for the few we take home to experiment!

"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-09-2010, 01:51 PM   #72
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,450
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Well, isn't there that one mention by canderous in K1 that it hadn't originally been the mandalorians' idea to attck? Shem brought up some pictures of it some time back... Something about a mention of ancient sith that sealed themselves away from the galaxy after the war started. Still could have been idealist remnants, as that vader-malak-esque guy in the Deceived trailer looked to be still pretty human.
True, but I think there's a good chance that Bioware may have had the remnants of Exar Kun's Sith in mind at the time. We know from various sources that some of these Sith survived into the time of the Jedi Civil War and were integrated into Revan's Sith Empire (Darth Sion being one of them). Their numbers may have been stretched thin at that time, but it's very possible that there were enough of them left over during the Mandalorian Wars to have still posed as significant threat.

At least at the time the game was produced, that is. They may very well be retconning that line to refer to this enigmatic faction that sprung from those who fled the Great Hyperspace War, whom Kriea dubs the "true Sith." There's a strong possibility that this will prove to be true, but I've always highly doubted that Bioware had these "true Sith" in mind when writing the first game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-11-2010, 01:48 AM   #73
Lord Foley
Junior Member
 
Lord Foley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKA-001 View Post
Avellone's vision was one which is incompatible with the rest of established Star Wars, so his vision of in-universe morality and how the Force works being invalidated is nothing if not a blessing for the continuity. That said, I'm not pleased that basic events of the previous story are being mucked up (TOR has pissed on previously established good canon literally from the first second of its inception); what I am saying is that the more doubt there is thrown on the ideas that Avellone's Fixer Sue stand-ins (Kreia, Canderous, HK-47, Atton, et cetera) peddled to us in TSL, the better. The story was good; its intended message was not.
Not gonna lie, I have a really hard time understanding your distaste for the portrayal of Revan in The Sith Lords. I really liked the character development of The Sith Lords, including the sort of inside story on Revan. You might think I'm just a fanboy eating up the idea of an edgy Dark Side hero, but I certainly don't think Revan was some kind of exceptional guy. What you need to bear in mind is that everything you hear about Revan in TSL comes from his friends- of course they're going to try to justify his actions. I thought it was very cool, sort of "So this is how the bad guys think of themselves," not "OMG Revan was Übersith!" In my opinion, the portrayal of Revan in TSL is vastly superior to one where they all just say "He done turned to the Dark Side!"

This whole secret Sith Empire was legitimately retarded from the beginning, but Revan being in on it is even moreso. If they want to try to weave every story into one overarching cliché, they're free to do so, but there is honestly no chance I will buy this game. Revan was not the sort of person who would defy the Jedi Council just to find someone new to bow to. The guy went with his gut and didn't like to be told what to do. But of course, this fits him perfectly into the generic evil guy slot- "If I'm bad I'll side with the bad guys lol!" No personal characteristics or motives in play- you're either a Jedi or a Sith and randomly generated name.


"Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask you is a trick. You will find no truth in me."
―Vergere to Jacen Solo
Lord Foley is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-11-2010, 12:15 PM   #74
Gurges-Ahter
Tyler Durden
 
Gurges-Ahter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Parker, TX
Posts: 957
I've just read through all of the posts, and I think there are some legit, eloquently (and some not-so-eloquently) worded arguments and criticisms against this direction that TOR is taking the Revan storyline. However, I was much relieved by the second posting from Daniel Erickson that Fazzz provided where he basically told us all just wait and see, and that the Revan storyline is in good hands because it's in the hands that created it in the first place. It was what I thought at first when I read the first post in this thread, and lost that viewpoint after reading some of the outrage from other posters. Now I'm back on track - they might totally screw it up or piss people off, but I'm reserving judgment for later because we don't really know anything at this point.


Gurges-Ahter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-11-2010, 12:23 PM   #75
TKA-001
I sneer at thee.
 
TKA-001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,535
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
This whole secret Sith Empire was legitimately retarded from the beginning, but Revan being in on it is even moreso. If they want to try to weave every story into one overarching cliché, they're free to do so, but there is honestly no chance I will buy this game. Revan was not the sort of person who would defy the Jedi Council just to find someone new to bow to. The guy went with his gut and didn't like to be told what to do.
We have only Kreia's inflated opinion of her star pupil to base this on. Revan got no legitimate character development whatsoever in TSL. Furthermore, I'm neither very surprised nor displeased by this "new development".

That Revan became a Sith as a direct result of running into the Sith in the Unknown Regions is a concept that tons of people already believed anyway. Besides, it takes Revan's awesomeness down a few notches in the best way possible - I guess he wasn't completely true to himself all along, after all (if the idea's that distasteful then you can just say he began his own agenda after being sent back to known space by the Sith, anyway, so nothing is actually lost). TOR may be ****ing up previously established canon, but at least it's not being discriminatory about it; the rain falls on the just and on the unjust, as they say.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
TKA-001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-11-2010, 12:49 PM   #76
Lord Foley
Junior Member
 
Lord Foley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKA-001 View Post
That Revan became a Sith as a direct result of running into the Sith in the Unknown Regions is a concept that tons of people already believed anyway. Besides, it takes Revan's awesomeness down a few notches in the best way possible - I guess he wasn't completely true to himself all along, after all (if the idea's that distasteful then you can just say he began his own agenda after being sent back to known space by the Sith, anyway, so nothing is actually lost). TOR may be ****ing up previously established canon, but at least it's not being discriminatory about it; the rain falls on the just and on the unjust, as they say.
The idea of the secret Sith Empire is not outright stupid because of Revan, but because "secret" Empires seem pretty freaking ridiculous. They should seriously consider renaming the Unknown Regions the Plot Device Regions. Need a new story? New enemy appears from Plot Device Regions. Need a resolution? The secret is in the Plot Device Regions. Need someone to disappear? They travelled to the Plot Device Regions.

And it's not just Kreia's opinion of Revan, there's everyone in the first game- the Masters talking about how he defied them, or the Disciple in TSL who says the same. We also know for sure, regardless of the decisions you make in-game, that Revan is supposed to be very intelligent. Canderous talks about how Revan was the only Jedi bold enough to take real action against the Mandolorians. And Kreia certainly has an inflated opinion, but even that's got to based somewhere in reality. Having Revan be nothing but a tool is silly because he clearly wanted to be his own boss, regardless of whether one thinks he "never fell" or was corrupted like anyone else.


"Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask you is a trick. You will find no truth in me."
―Vergere to Jacen Solo
Lord Foley is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-11-2010, 03:34 PM   #77
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,450
Forum Veteran 
Is Revan really that awesome? Or do most people like him so much because of the "big revelation" that your character is actually him? I always thought Revan was way overrated and that Malak was the better enemy (and a far better character in general).

Thus, I am unaffected by this new direction that they've taken Revan's story in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-11-2010, 04:12 PM   #78
Gurges-Ahter
Tyler Durden
 
Gurges-Ahter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Parker, TX
Posts: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
Is Revan really that awesome? Or do most people like him so much because of the "big revelation" that your character is actually him? I always thought Revan was way overrated and that Malak was the better enemy (and a far better character in general).

Thus, I am unaffected by this new direction that they've taken Revan's story in.
I've grown to appreciate Malak more since my first playthrough of KotOR, but I always thought he was kind of weak as a Lord of the Sith-type enemy. Revan's mystery is what makes him appealing to a lot of people. That might be stripped away if we learn too much about his fate in TOR, similar to Boba Fett when we all found out he's just a clone.

Also, just comparing Revan and Malak, based on the story we do learn, Revan moved and inspired masses of people (Jedi included) to fight for his cause - Malak just took the reins from him with the sneak attack, and then failed at Revan's hand again later.


Gurges-Ahter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-11-2010, 06:15 PM   #79
Lord Foley
Junior Member
 
Lord Foley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
Is Revan really that awesome? Or do most people like him so much because of the "big revelation" that your character is actually him? I always thought Revan was way overrated and that Malak was the better enemy (and a far better character in general).

Thus, I am unaffected by this new direction that they've taken Revan's story in.
Revan is talked up by virtually every character in both games. Granted, we can't know too much about his personality because you make his decisions, but we can definitely gather that he was headstrong, clever, and just generally more powerful than Malak. Malak was cool but not terribly interesting- there was no moment for me where he did something unexpected, or where I saw a side of him I didn't know of before. He may have been smart as a commander, but he was single-minded and static. (It might only be that way because we don't get to have any heart-to-hearts with his followers or fans, the way we do Revan's, but either way he's not presented as interesting.)

I like Revan because all the different stories of him make him feel very real and dynamic, while still leaving him ultimately an enigma. TKA-001 is definitely right with the fanboys of Revan making him out to be awesome to a retarded level, but I still think him being hyped-up by people in-universe isn't unreasonable; stories always grow in the telling.

Edit: And to be more on topic about it, it's not that I think it would be impossible for Revan to have been coerced into helping a pre-existing Sith Empire, it's more that I hate the whole idea of a secret sith empire lying in wait, and including Revan and Malak in this sort of trite failure of an epic would trivialize both KotORs into something so much lesser than what they are now.


"Everything I tell you is a lie. Every question I ask you is a trick. You will find no truth in me."
―Vergere to Jacen Solo

Last edited by Lord Foley; 02-11-2010 at 06:22 PM.
Lord Foley is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-11-2010, 06:23 PM   #80
TKA-001
I sneer at thee.
 
TKA-001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,535
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
there was no moment for me where he did something unexpected, or where I saw a side of him I didn't know of before.
What about the time Saul expects Malak to kill him for reporting Calo Nord's failure, and he doesn't?


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
TKA-001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Game Discussion > The Unknown Regions > The Confirmed Truth Behind Revan & Malak

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.