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Old 04-27-2010, 02:11 PM   #1
Fredi
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Alien life is out there.

I was reading this on the news today and I said ... hmm I totally agree with Stephen Hawking, If there is alien life out there we should be very careful. What are you're thoughts.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...ist-warns.html



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Old 04-27-2010, 02:35 PM   #2
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So do I but that would put us into the conned and crazy category.

Yes, I would agree that we should at the least be cautious about contacting aliens and such b/c we don't know them, nor they us. Yes I do believe statistically if most naturally possible life forms can live in one part of our universe, so can they live elsewhere in our universe. Mother universe and father time.

Still, it might be inevitable that one day if we do not make contact with them, I wonder if they would be so bold as to make contact with us...I would hope not at invasion gunpoint like mars attacks.

BTW Keith Olbermann actually had some expert on yesterday to try to discredit Hawking...implying Steven Hawking was basically pulling a stunt on the gullible for money, and by [Keith's] snooty tone that Hawking was a sellout--but neither his expert nor Keith actually had the balls to call him that directly. Probably b/c hawking would publicly challenge Keith to a battle of intellect--and I get the feeling Olby's IQ compared a Hawking's is like comparing a shorter-than-average person to Giant Gonzales.
Luckily the expert kept the pomp out of his own sentiment.

Anyways, back on point: I not only think it's plausible and possible, I think it's a reality that has been around perhaps longer than we realize. It would admittedly be interesting to see if they are anything like us at all, how long they knew of us on Earth, and if whether or not they understood things as we did. It is a curious sort of thing that until we get definitive proof, curiosity and speculation shall never end I think.


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Old 04-27-2010, 03:30 PM   #3
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^^ If there is life out there, and I'm reasonably certain there is, then I think it's fantastically unlikely they would walk on two legs and speak like us, or even have any sort of similarity with us at all. We take the, understandable perhaps but probably untrue, view that life will always come from a planet the same size as earth, with the same chemical make-up and atmospheric pressure, etc. I just can't see it being true that there is only one set of conditions for sentient life and that we are it.

As for being careful.. I don't know. That seems to be making a lot of presumptions on out abilty to contact them in the first place....
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:46 PM   #4
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:58 PM   #5
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^^ If there is life out there, and I'm reasonably certain there is, then I think it's fantastically unlikely they would walk on two legs and speak like us, or even have any sort of similarity with us at all. We take the, understandable perhaps but probably untrue, view that life will always come from a planet the same size as earth, with the same chemical make-up and atmospheric pressure, etc. I just can't see it being true that there is only one set of conditions for sentient life and that we are it.
And an infinitesimal amount of other factors.

Me neither. I actually wondered when I was a little kid if there weren't parasites dwelling on perpetually volcanic planets that could survive and even swim through lava. I mean we *are* talking about other life forms and this is merely an example while throwing assumptions out the window with abandon.

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As for being careful.. I don't know. That seems to be making a lot of presumptions on out abilty to contact them in the first place....
Ehh, more just common sense, really, not fear. Of all those possibilities you don't want it to be the chance or chances it does understand us and happens to be malicious. Even if we could stop it...just, I think you can understand the rational value of not bringing attention to yourself.


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Old 04-27-2010, 04:03 PM   #6
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Too late you puny humans, we are here and we shall destroy you all.


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Old 04-27-2010, 04:19 PM   #7
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I honestly don't think that humans should be afraid of aliens, and vice verse with aliens themselves. Human evolution has come a long way, and we're now more accepting of other people's culture, religion, skin color, and language. Why must we act different about this when we confront aliens on Earth?


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Old 04-27-2010, 04:30 PM   #8
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I think it is possible that there are aliens out there, but that doesn't mean they are not friendly. What Hawkings said all seem a bit far fetched in my opinion. What makes him so sure they wont be friendly?

If they really had the technology to suck our planet dry of it's recourses, and destroy earth and all it's inhabitants then it seem highly likely they would have the technology to find other planets. And if they know we are here already, what is stopping them?

Chances are they are no farther along than us.

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Old 04-27-2010, 04:33 PM   #9
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Not sure if we can do much about avoiding them, esp if they know we're out here already. However, I think it's naive to think that any alien civilization that discovers Earth's location will necessarily be friendly. I think it makes sense to maintain as low a profile as possible while we continue to progress technologically. Even if they were benign, there's always the law of unintended consequences to deal with as well.


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Old 04-27-2010, 07:15 PM   #10
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I hate to be so brutally blunt but the only thing I am looking forward to if we ever make contact with extraterrestrials is the freaky lovin'


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Old 04-27-2010, 07:41 PM   #11
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Chances are they are no farther along than us.
You think? Take the tiny amount of time we have been around on a universal scale and consider, if the chances of life are as high as we think, what the likelihood of them having much longer to develop technologically are, quite apart from the fact that they may progress faster than us (or indeed slower but whatever, the first point renders that irrelevant anyway). Point taken that we wouldn't know that they would unfriendly but that's the whole thing - we have absolutely no idea. That's why whilst prudence seems sensible - as it would be anything about which we have no experience - paranoia does not. To be fair though I think S.H. was just talking about caution as opposed to flat out hiding, which also seems sensible.
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:54 PM   #12
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I think that if there is life out there, and I believe there is, that we likely will find both benevolent and hostile species just like there are here on Earth. By the time our technology develops to the point we can explore beyond our own Sol System, and we're nowhere close, I also imagine we'll find species on different paths of development as well. It's purely a crap shoot in my opinion and caution would of course be best and much better than flat out paranoia or an open arms policy.

Think of it as one hand extended in peace while the other is on the trigger.


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Old 04-27-2010, 08:22 PM   #13
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I believe that there is life out there - it would be a lonely universe if it was just us humans living in the plane of existence. I agree with Jedi Athos; we will find both benevolent and hostile life. There's always the possibility that extraterrestials aren't farther than along than us, and may actually be more primitive.


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Old 04-27-2010, 09:17 PM   #14
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Considering that we throw our tv and radio waves into space with wild abandon, any species that is capable of encountering us could probably get a pretty good idea of where we are. However, caution should be exercised in dealing with any aliens. As far as non-sentient life goes, I'm neutral. There are really 4 possibilities for sentient life:

Aliens exist in such a fashion that we would not be aware of them and vice versa - Doesn't matter, both species are happily oblivious.

Aliens are significantly more advanced than us - We're pretty much at their mercy.
Malevolent: we can't do anything about it.
Benevolent: we'd have to hope that there aren't too many unintended
consequences of contact (disease, etc.), and try to reach their tech level as
soon as possible. Then we would have to choose where to go from there.

Aliens are significantly less advanced than us -
Hostile: Kill them all.I suppose it might be a little humanocentric of me, but
honestly, I don't think leaving them alive is a smart choice. As friendly as they
might seem when at a disadvantage, there's no telling what they would do once
they reach a tech level where they could stand up to us. Humanity's survival comes
first. Hopefully alien races superior to <i>us</i> would think with a bit more
naivete...

Aliens are roughly on par with us tech-wise:
Benevolent: Two choices- Try to avoid unintended consequences, preserve
goodwill, etc. Or take advantage of their benevolence, make a preemptive strike
that would hurt them enough to make our victory exceedingly likely, in a political
maneuver to unite Earth against a common enemy. Take whatever tech we can
from them.
Hostile: Hope that their initial strike doesn't damage us too much, arms race, likely
a very long war.

Or we can just attempt raunchy space sex with them and hope for the best. Be careful lads and ladies, Tau Cetian Spore Worm is one venereal disease that ruins everyone's day.



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Old 04-27-2010, 09:48 PM   #15
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You think? Take the tiny amount of time we have been around on a universal scale and consider, if the chances of life are as high as we think, what the likelihood of them having much longer to develop technologically are, quite apart from the fact that they may progress faster than us (or indeed slower but whatever, the first point renders that irrelevant anyway). Point taken that we wouldn't know that they would unfriendly but that's the whole thing - we have absolutely no idea. That's why whilst prudence seems sensible - as it would be anything about which we have no experience - paranoia does not. To be fair though I think S.H. was just talking about caution as opposed to flat out hiding, which also seems sensible.
That is possible, but it all boils down to uncertainty. We may never know for sure if there is life somewhere else in the universe, and we may never want to know, due to possible consequences (which is what Hawkings is saying), but there is always a chance that they are friendly and they might be able to help us out of current slumps we are in.

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Old 04-27-2010, 11:39 PM   #16
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but there is always a chance that they are friendly and they might be able to help us out of current slumps we are in.
Like the europeans helped the Native Americans? or like the europeans helped aboriginal people?


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Old 04-28-2010, 12:55 AM   #17
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Like the europeans helped the Native Americans? or like the europeans helped aboriginal people?
Then that settles it. If the aliens are European there will be no dealings with them.

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Old 04-28-2010, 01:02 AM   #18
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That one game not too long ago and its sequel allowed you to run around using parasitic probes on humans.

If aliens are that way, most people would just rather they stayed away from earth


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Old 04-28-2010, 05:15 AM   #19
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Could there be alien life? Perhaps.

Is that life carbon based? Now, there is the interesting question and, really, the question that determines the rest.

Do they even think in a way remotely resembling what we perceive as "thinking"? Do they communicate in any way we can perceive or translate? Are we capable of even existing and living in the same worldly and atmospheric conditions?

Let me put it this way: Humanity, to this day, still is in denial about something as simple as Evolution and regard even our closest intellectual relatives to be pets or below. We have no -real- way to communicate with what other intelligent life is on this planet beyond hand gestures, and we still barely understand how our own mind, and the minds and bodies of other animals work.

And that is all within carbon based, mostly oxygen breathing animals upon the surface of the planet we've explored well. We barely understand our own planet, considering we've traveled less than 10% of our oceans and we continually find forests, islands, and species we never thought existed -even though- we have access to the entire photographed land mass of our planet.

We are also really the only upright, standing animal on our planet. Our brains have effectively brought a huge slowdown on our progress genetically, since our brains can now substitute any bodily adaptations we'd need to go through. We are, above all else, fairly unique even on our own planet.

Now, taking all that in mind, the very idea that a Star Wars/Trek, or Mass Effect like species being out there is probably even more improbable than there being other intelligent life in the first place. If anything, intelligence of our level has only recently, in the life of our planet, been seen. Mass Effect at least goes into detail about there being different metabolisms, but beyond food and sex it really doesn't go much into how severe something like that would be on, say, a closed off ship with multiple species. Even a few pounds of gravity to one planet to another can have severe biological problems. For instance, our men in space start losing their bone and muscle mass after a few months and need to go through rehabilitation once back. Having a population on Mars could do who knows what to human biology in the long run.

Not taking in mind that the majority of the stars above us don't actually exist anymore, and if light traveled infinitely fast we'd see a pretty clear line of stars and then a few super galaxies like our own. From what we know of physics as well, there would need to be some deus ex machina of reality like Element Zero to enable us to do anything resembling what Science fiction does regarding space travel.

My point is, we're probably being incredibly ignorant in even assuming we'd have any idea of what Alien life would even -begin- to look or act like considering most of what happens on our own planet and in our own conditions is still completely mysterious to us. We're currently trying to figure our how weather works right now; where do we stand on talking about aliens?

TVtropes has a particular trope that is essentially a sort of impossibility that can be pulled off with very clever writing:

Blue and Orange Morality
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...OrangeMorality

Also see,
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...tchAbomination
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...StarfishAliens

Take an insect. Now make that insect as intelligent as us. What happens. Just watch a discover channel special on insects and how they act related to, say, mammals and then try to imagine what morality would be to a creature like that. Hell, just imagine regular spiders, but 10 feet long. What constitutes morality to something like that. What does malevolent and benevolent mean to something so foreign and, well, alien on our own planet. How do you explain the importance of life and death to a creature that runs primarily on switch based instinct. Something that will die for its children at one moment, but the second they are born switch off and view them as food.

You really can't, because it is just too alien. Now, imagine those insects are, say, silicon based and from a planet with twice our gravity, and hydrogen making up much of their atmosphere. What then. Does a creature like that even work on a genetic dna scale we even understand? Depending on how "life" on that planet started, they could be different in ways our minds and imaginations are not even capable of creating.

And, all that aside, lets say we find a planet with almost the same conditions as ours with life. Chances are we'd destroy our populations with diseases neither species is ever expecting down to the genetic level.

So, while Hawkings is smart and all... I disagree fundamentally with his approximation of it being similar to Columbus and the Native Americans because Columbus was not an Orange and Blue morality Starfish Alien. It was human on human conflict. I'd closer relate it to, say, an army of African ants chasing down and eating someone. How do you communicate with something that was never designed to communicate, relate to, or find anything translatable between us. Almost completely alien to one another, yet we both have communication, society, royal structure, buildings, wars, needs... and we both kill each other.

Others asking if they will be friend or foe essentially have to ask what those two words even mean to us as humans, and then try to translate that to a hive of ants crawling up your legs. So, on the point he makes of avoiding contact at all costs... I'd have to agree for similar, yet different reasons.

This, of course, isn't taking in mind a controled evolution of species like in Mass Effect or Star Wars

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Old 04-28-2010, 01:05 PM   #20
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Of course there is life out there. Heck this is proof of what happens in the future. Frankly I actually like this world.

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Seriously though if there is alien life out there and should we attempt to contact them, I would exercise caution. It could be that inadvertently what we consider benevolent to us might be considered hostil to them. It's all about reading between the lines and listening, watching and learning.

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Old 04-28-2010, 02:26 PM   #21
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Damn. I missed that Steven Hawkins show because I forgot about it on sunday when I had meant to watch it.

Still, with aliens... If they had achieved interstellar or intergalactic travel I would expect that they wouldn't be out to kill us. True Avery pretty much says everything I think about the matter.

Given, alien life would probably be very different from Earth lifeforms, but I've seen some really alien-like creatures living on Earth.


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Old 04-28-2010, 05:27 PM   #22
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Like the europeans helped the Native Americans? or like the europeans helped aboriginal people?
I was thinking more along the lines of having more experience in economical trouble and thinks of that sort. Or, perhaps their planet could have a lot more natural recourses.

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Old 04-28-2010, 05:54 PM   #23
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I do believe too of a peaceful civilization, of an advance social civilization, something different from the humans.



"Evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak. The dark side is about survival. It's about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual."
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:40 PM   #24
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I do believe too of a peaceful civilization, of an advance social civilization, something different from the humans.
I totally agree, and hopefully that is the case.

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Old 04-29-2010, 06:18 AM   #25
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I hate to be so brutally blunt but the only thing I am looking forward to if we ever make contact with extraterrestrials is the freaky lovin'
You so much want to go to good ol' DS9 and run the 'Vulcan Love Slave' program in a holo-suite don't you?


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Old 05-02-2010, 11:28 PM   #26
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"Evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak. The dark side is about survival. It's about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual."
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