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View Poll Results: Will there be a World War Three?
Yes, within the next 50 years 8 13.33%
Yes, within the next 100 years 4 6.67%
Maybe. It's a possibility, that's for sure. 24 40.00%
Unlikely. Most of the world powers have nuclear weapons. 14 23.33%
No. Definitely not. 3 5.00%
Yoda (says: Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate...) 7 11.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: Will There Be a WW III?
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:26 AM   #41
Darth333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysyacha View Post
Tysyacha's Speculations:

CAUSE OF WWIII: Dwindling resources (OIL, water, food, strategic points)
MOST LIKELY TO START IN: The Middle East and Asia (IRAN, Iraq, N. Korea)
ON AMERICA'S SIDE: Great Britain, France, Germany, and (oddly) Russia
AGAINST AMERICA: Iran, Iraq, Syria, N. Korea, other Asian Muslim countries
WINNER: US (I hope)
Err... I am not answering the initial thread's question for personal reasons but look at your above statement: "Dwindling resources (OIL, water, food, strategic points)"...

Do you realize that these resources target different regions of the world and different primary interests? I can hardly see many of the countries listed sharing the same interest in each of the above mentioned areas (and America = more than one country, often with different POVs and interests ).
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:42 AM   #42
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I'd like to believe that there are backups to backups for that kind of critical information but I suppose I could be wrong.
There usually are. I know at least most companies in the insurance industry have a back up to their back up's back up. I guess it just depends on the industry and how conservative they are. Most finance institutions are very conservative, at least with their own money.



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Old 06-19-2010, 01:40 PM   #43
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There usually are. I know at least most companies in the insurance industry have a back up to their back up's back up. I guess it just depends on the industry and how conservative they are. Most finance institutions are very conservative, at least with own money.
If you have read Debt of Honor, You'll remember that one part of that attack was to destroy the records of every transaction made that day. What people don't realize (And Clancy used with such skill I envy him) is that Banks are one of the big investors in the Stock and commodities exchange. With no record of who did what, people could lie about it for gain. "Oh I sold that stock here, when it was at this amount, not here, when it was ten points cheaper'. And if any real length of time passes (Clancy's characters fixed it by having the market wait only a week before retailating) others will make claims to having made buys of now seriously depressed stocks, knowing the government will get the market back on it's feet.

Worse yet, picture someone telling the bank "I already paid the note, why are you deamnding I pay again? Oh, your records are gone? Well here are mine (With the ink still wet) and they say I'm paid off.'


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Old 06-19-2010, 07:42 PM   #44
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This very much explains why we are regulated to keep a hard copy of each transaction for 72 hours.

Don’t know much about banks but with a series 6 license I had to keep a log book for each transaction, scan the hard copy into the computer, keep a paper copy in my file for the client and give the customer a receipt. Fiction is a beautiful thing, but in the end it is still fiction. Also anyone making a major transaction without getting a receipt and the proper paper work is a fool and “a fool and his money are soon parted.”


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Old 06-21-2010, 06:59 PM   #45
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Even if there was a world war 3 and it went nuclear, I doubt many nuclear missiles would be fired in such a situation. Maybe half a dozen to a dozen nukes fired, tops, before everyone decides they've had enough. And that isn't going to destroy the entire world. Maybe a couple major cities pulverized, but the world would easily rebuild from the damage within a few decades.

With all the experience and history the world has with wars, I bet that such a war would only last a few days before everyone nearly unanimously decided that a third world war was the stupidest thing anyone had ever done.


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Old 06-21-2010, 07:05 PM   #46
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Let's hope so. Otherwise, there won't be anyone left to start a WWIV. :P (bad joke)
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:39 PM   #47
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The most likely WW3 conflict? Assuming the world goes broke(else no war possible sorry), then its

China(+US support) vs Russia(+EU support)

-China(workers demand more money, resource rich Siberia is a great way to get money)
-USA(forced to help China to maintain its own stability)

vs

-Russia(possession of ressources)
-Europe(couldnt reach Siberia anyway, but has currently access via Russia).

Result: China gets glassed(never fight a war in Asia). But so will be many major cities. Not the first time this scenario is happening. But it always ends the same.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:48 AM   #48
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^^^Interesting. Upon what do you base these, if I may?


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Old 06-28-2010, 04:09 AM   #49
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Clashes between Russia and China are not unheard of. See Sino-Soviet border conflict. Recently Russia ceded some territory to China as well. Lots of chinese are working&living in that general area, which is far closer to Beijing than to Moscow. Not to speak about difference in population amount.. Siberia 40m and sinking, China 1400m and raising.

The US needs a source of cheap products, G2 was suggested by the US, not China. China soon will have a typical dilemma, as it gets richer, so would like the workers, but as cheap labor is what makes China richer, its either one or another. Or landgrab. Now i dont think Chinese have the spirit to do that alone, but in alliance with USA they could. That too is not unheard of.

Europe.. its a total mess, already actually. One thing is sure, w/o US money all those "small independent democracies" aka puppet states immediately go broke and back under Russian influence. That or they go into a state of anarchy like its happening with Kyrgyzstan right now. Either way Russia will not face a 2 front war.

As for the Arab thread i think its overrated because they are not integrated into world's economy. USA invaded Iraq, Afghanistan. Israel invaded Libya or something. Nothing happened. Noone really cares, or does anything other then talk. At a slight sight of danger they are glassed and life goes on.

again this assumes that the world goes broke first, war second heh.


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Old 06-28-2010, 03:19 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-varmint View Post
The war's going to start between a primarily Muslim Europe and a primarily Catholic America.
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Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Demographically, Britain will likely become islamicized w/in a few generations. Europe itself at least as quickly or faster.
It surprises me how often this comes up, from my experience the facts don't support the theory of "Islamifacation" for lack of a better term.

I live in Europe btw.


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Old 06-28-2010, 04:08 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Roller123 View Post
Clashes between Russia and China are not unheard of. See Sino-Soviet border conflict. Recently Russia ceded some territory to China as well. Lots of chinese are working&living in that general area, which is far closer to Beijing than to Moscow. Not to speak about difference in population amount.. Siberia 40m and sinking, China 1400m and raising.
Hm. Thanks, I will.

Quote:
The US needs a source of cheap products, G2 was suggested by the US, not China. China soon will have a typical dilemma, as it gets richer, so would like the workers, but as cheap labor is what makes China richer, its either one or another. Or landgrab. Now i dont think Chinese have the spirit to do that alone, but in alliance with USA they could. That too is not unheard of.
I think I'm liking this--one who has a grasp of the practical economics and realities. Yeah, that's what has happened in America by large part.

Now that landgrab is what interests me. Yeah I can see a feud with Russia happening, however I'm not sure that U.S.A. would necessarily support China's doing that. Well, maybe it would if Russia did some things to anger the U.S. but I can't really say I see that happening, tbh. Russia's leaders might not like what the USA stands for, but they're not really interested in a conflict.

It's more advantageous (if only marginally so) for China and Russia to not fight. If China got a wild hair...maybe. Best I can tell, it (China) wants to become the next top economic power in the world and to beat nations that way instead of toe-to-toe war with their northern neighbor.

Perhaps Russia might be taking swipes at others, but really, what makes you think they are any more inclined to take up arms and go to war?

China always looked up to the U.S.A. until recently. Now they want to be the ones with power, and they are also looking to Europe for values and for trade. (Not my words, something said on PBS or somesuch.)
Basically: China is hurting too, I think. And if, as you seem to imply (please do tell me if I am mistaken what you mean), Europe is staggering and getting wishy-washy in its stances, what is to stop China from doing the same as Russia in getting or buying European support?

So far as Europe...why would you think they'd support Russia instead? Britain breaking off with the U.S. is not something I can see happening. *shrugs* So...
Quote:
Europe.. its a total mess, already actually. One thing is sure, w/o US money all those "small independent democracies" aka puppet states immediately go broke and back under Russian influence. That or they go into a state of anarchy like its happening with Kyrgyzstan right now. Either way Russia will not face a 2 front war.
I'm not sure I understand...Yeah it's broke, but the U.S. would keep trying to support it--to its detriment in fact.

"Puppet states"? I wonder what they think about that assessment just because they are small and beholden. By that analogy they would be no less "puppet" under Russia's power. Is that what you call them for expediency sake because they aren't world powers? Just curious.

Anyhoo, that scenario it would have to come down to who'd make the sweetest sounding bribes/payoffs...a competition and feud which I imagine would tear Europe apart.

I don't know, but something tells me that Europe is just not that weak. They'd see what is going on, and ultimately side with whoever had the best ideals. Sure money talks, but so do liberties. Economies wax and wain. *shrug* We'll see.

Could be wrong, but I don't think Europe is so mad at the USA that it's ready to sever its ties...I see where you're going with this, but it frankly isn't that simple. Too many unknowns to be able to tell accurately.

Quote:
As for the Arab thread i think its overrated because they are not integrated into world's economy.
I beg to differ: Oil, and soon possibly dirt cheap manufacturing.

Plus we haven't even gotten into USA's relationships with everyone and trying to be everybody's friend. I.E. India and Pakistan.

Quote:
USA invaded Iraq, Afghanistan. Israel invaded Libya or something. Nothing happened. Noone really cares, or does anything other then talk. At a slight sight of danger they are glassed and life goes on.

again this assumes that the world goes broke first, war second heh.


God, Chome's spellcheck is awful and i havent slept the night..
*shrug* Uhh, I guess so.


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Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 06-28-2010 at 11:49 PM. Reason: clarifying china and Russia
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:18 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeniVidiVicous View Post
It surprises me how often this comes up, from my experience the facts don't support the theory of "Islamifacation" for lack of a better term.

I live in Europe btw.
I suspect the effects aren't as obvious now b/c there are at present more "indigenous" europeans than islamic immigrants/natives. However, as birthrates for traditional europeans continue in decline, their decendants will ultimately become outnumbered by those of the islamic background who have a much higher birthrate. Unless you're contending that most of those people are going to embrace western ideals the longer they are in europe, it seems more mathematically likely that Europe will ultimatly become islamicized, barring some unforseen circumstances.

However, from your pov (and where in Europe are you, btw), how does this possible scenario seem unlikely?


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Old 06-28-2010, 11:49 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
I suspect the effects aren't as obvious now b/c there are at present more "indigenous" europeans than people islamic immigrants/natives. However, as birthrates for traditional europeans continue in decline, their decendants will ultimately become outnumbered by those of the islamic background who have a much higher birthrate. Unless you're contending that most of those people are going to embrace western ideals the longer they are in europe, it seems more mathematically likely that Europe will ultimatly become islamicized, barring some unforseen circumstances.

However, from your pov (and where in Europe are you, btw), how does this possible scenario seem unlikely?
Out of curiosity did you hear about this from that Muslim Demographic video on YT? I know it's quite popular but it has been debunked.

I'm from Ireland btw.


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Old 06-28-2010, 11:57 PM   #54
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Not from that, but I was aware there was something out there on YT (you almost would have to ask what isn't on YT by now ). Still do you have links for both the vid you mention and the arguments that debunk such a theory?


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Old 06-29-2010, 12:18 AM   #55
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Not from that, but I was aware there was something out there on YT (you almost would have to ask what isn't on YT by now ). Still do you have links for both the vid you mention and the arguments that debunk such a theory?
The video that got media attention and over 12 million views: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

A humorous rebuttal from a British Youtuber: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=847jCeQoXU8

Also this from the BBC website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8189231.stm


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Old 06-29-2010, 12:31 AM   #56
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Ok, thanks. Vids ~24 minutes in length, so will check later.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

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Old 06-29-2010, 12:35 AM   #57
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Ok, thanks. Vids ~24 minutes in length, so will check later.
No problem.

On topic though: If I was to geuss as to what could cause WW3 in our lifetime I would go with the US invading Iran triggering action from other nations. Not saying that would happen if the 2 went to war but it's possible.


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Old 07-02-2010, 07:10 PM   #58
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x
I didnt say Europe is weak. It has everything it needs thus it is fairy passive. Understandable. All the points in your post though are based on a well nurtured myth of USA being the good guys, protecting the world from the so called evil. Needless to say reality is nowhere near that. Its a country like any other, only interested in profit and new markets. Killing others for the greater good, its own. (Which is ok really, im not making any kind of accusation). Thus, quote: "Well, maybe it would if Russia did some things to anger the U.S. but I can't really say I see that happening, tbh." is dreamland, if they see a gain, they will strike. Observing recent history, Georgia was using US navigation system (recon planes ect) to target things in South Ossetia, both civilian and later russian military. Same can happen in a China/US-Russia/EU conflict, especially if things go nuclear. Same applies to Europe "not wanting" to ally itself with Russia. They will if there is a gain, and there is. (and in our scenario even more so, because China getting Siberia, will certainly not want to share, it would make the landgrab pointless in the first place)

Again, assuming world being in a bad shape, else this thread is pointless. As seen in the above example with Georgia, even today, it doesnt take military might to start a war, only a delusional leader. 2 terms of McCain and USA is there.
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:34 PM   #59
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@Roller123---Two terms of Obama and they won't need a war to defeat us.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

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Old 07-02-2010, 07:57 PM   #60
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Again, assuming world being in a bad shape, else this thread is pointless. As seen in the above example with Georgia, even today, it doesnt take military might to start a war, only a delusional leader. 2 terms of McCain and USA is there.
Sorry, but I met McCain. You really think he's more delusional than Bush? I certainly don't. He's not even near as delusional as Obama.

Though I could see if we were talking about Palin, but McCain is pretty well straight.

But I could see where you're coming from. If the US were to start a major offensive, say, against Mexico, I could see the UN stepping in and condemning the actions. Sanctions against the US by the UN could spur a reaction from the US.


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Old 07-06-2010, 12:55 AM   #61
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I didnt say Europe is weak. It has everything it needs thus it is fairy passive. Understandable.
That's not the impression you gave.
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Europe.. its a total mess, already actually. One thing is sure, w/o US money all those "small independent democracies" aka puppet states immediately go broke and back under Russian influence.
Hm. That to me implies you mean to say they can't stand on their own.

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All the points in your post though are based on a well nurtured myth of USA being the good guys, protecting the world from the so called evil. Needless to say reality is nowhere near that. Its a country like any other, only interested in profit and new markets. Killing others for the greater good, its own. (Which is ok really, im not making any kind of accusation).
Not received as any kind of accusation. However, I had hoped you'd elaborate on your position, you know points of view economically, politically, etc. instead of resorting to patronizing; You don't know any more what I'm thinking than I do what you're thinking.

The assumption you're making is that I
1) am a subscriber to the "USA can do no wrong, opposition to it is all bad" belief
2) am naive to the reality that countries ultimately are out for their own

I am neither. So your condescension is misdirected.

1) Anyone who subscribes to such a belief is short sighted and narrow minded.

Now I can see why you'd draw that conclusion, perhaps I did not clarify some things:
-There are many in europe who among other things, desire the same rights Americans have. There's something to be said for this and this does not mean USA is never wrong.
-China's relationship with the USA of recent has caused it to embrace free market and capitalism after such a long time of communism. There is something to be said for this and it does not mean that USA is never wrong.
-Exchange students from asian and european continents that come to America seem more curious than wary and leave with a bit of respect, and perhaps envy. There is something to be said for this and it does not mean that USA is never wrong.
-Russia and USA once used to be friendlier as nations. The people of each country love the people of the other country, their reservations towards each others' governments notwithstanding. There is something to be said for this and it does not mean that USA is never wrong.

2) this reality is what I referring to and even one better:
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
it would have to come down to who'd make the sweetest sounding bribes/payoffs
If there is a gain, a country will go for it and often times offers for such gains come from more than one side in a conflict. The nations deciding this are like alligators: They will go for whichever payoff looks bigger and better in short and long runs.

Maybe I'm underestimating Russia's ire, which I'll grant you. Still, you have not convinced me of such.

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Originally Posted by Roller123 View Post
Thus, quote: "Well, maybe it would if Russia did some things to anger the U.S. but I can't really say I see that happening, tbh." is dreamland, if they see a gain, they will strike.
Yes however that makes assumptions that have yet to be proven. The Georgia incident surely doesn't bode well for US and Russia relations. Still, I'd think Russia would try to buy itself time and perhaps rapport to get othrs to convince China to back off instead of "striking" militarily or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Roller123 View Post
Observing recent history, Georgia was using US navigation system (recon planes ect) to target things in South Ossetia, both civilian and later russian military. Same can happen in a China/US-Russia/EU conflict, especially if things go nuclear. Same applies to Europe "not wanting" to ally itself with Russia. They will if there is a gain, and there is. (and in our scenario even more so, because China getting Siberia, will certainly not want to share, it would make the landgrab pointless in the first place)
Granted you have a good point or two, if vague.

Still, do you really think China is just going to sit idle like an idiot while Russia tries to rally as many european nations to its aid as it can? If China is looking to become more of a world power, it would reach out to European nations in need as well. Also, if USA doesn't necessarily support China's action, so China will probably have to think very hard about this situation. Europe is also interested in the abatement of conflict and those strongly with USA would assist.

I grant you Europe largely might have nations that would want to join Russia given certain circumstances. But not all of them, as you made it sound.

Quote:
Again, assuming world being in a bad shape, else this thread is pointless.
Well this is a thread for conjecture. I was curious because your position was a new one and wanted you to elaborate more on it. But whatever.

Quote:
As seen in the above example with Georgia, even today, it doesnt take military might to start a war,
Agreed.
Quote:
only a delusional leader. 2 terms of McCain and USA is there.
*facepalm* You are certainly welcome to your opinions. I'll point to Tommycat's reply to this and add: McCain has undeniably fought in a war, whereas Bush can only really claim to have served in the military. McCain is much more well versed in war than Bush.


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Old 07-13-2010, 11:54 AM   #62
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Short answer: no with a 'but'
long answer yes with an 'and'

Short: "no, but there will be more wars, but not necessarily a World War"
Long: "Yes. the nature of humanity, derived from their history of warring: (American Revolutionary War, War of 1812, The War of conguest waged by the great leader of the Mongols, Genghis Khan, World War I, World War II, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, and that's just naming ones the US had prominent involvement in) dictates that there WILL likely be a World War III. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but it will happen eventually.




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Old 08-18-2010, 07:30 PM   #63
dswtor
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most likely with china imo.

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Old 08-18-2010, 09:46 PM   #64
Liverandbacon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswtor View Post
most likely with china imo.
Who against China? This is a bit vague. I'll assume you're talking about the United States, in which case, I disagree. China has become too tied up with the US financially for it to be in their interest to wage a direct, military, war against the US. The leaders of the Chinese government may be oppressive, but they're quite sensible.



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