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Old 07-04-2010, 04:11 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Pho3nix View Post
Disturbing.
I can't believe it. I actually agree with Pho3nix? what is happening to me!?

@TDM
You, like me, are a Christian; right? If so, then I'm confused:
How could you possibly think that God approves of the way America is formed? I don't think He approves of genocide, raping women, stealing land, and slavery; because that is what America was formed from.

Independence Day is always a sad time for me because I realize people like you still want to look at America's past as some sort of divine-will guided nation; when in fact it could not be further from the truth. We glorify soldiers (killers and mercenaries, all of them), as somehow being 'brave' and 'patriotic'. It makes me feel disgusted to have been born in America.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:16 PM   #42
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But do you think we would have just been given our freedom if we asked?




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Old 07-04-2010, 04:22 PM   #43
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Well, it isn't any worse than the way modern American culture glorifies all kinds of debauchery in the name of exercising personal desires. Still a big part of what makes this country great, both in the eyes of most of its citizens and many others around the world is the freedom to express their views w/o fear of the govt putting them away and the opportunity to prosper in ways that you can't elsewhere in the world, or at least not as easily.

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But do you think we would have just been given our freedom if we asked?
Of course not. Empires aren't run that way. Not to mention the fact that the majority of 18th century Americans weren't exactly chomping at the bit to leave, either.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

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Old 07-04-2010, 04:27 PM   #44
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I agree. Take piracy for example and how we depict them as fortune hunters who sink ships while they were really unhonorable sailors who pilliged, stole, raped, and other terrible things. This is a similar case.




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Old 07-04-2010, 04:43 PM   #45
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Lets get back to topic and leave fantasy out of it, if you want the fiction section take it to Atho, Dantooine Theatre Company or Coruscant Entertainment Centre.

Let us also remember this is a diverse and international community and opinions differ, so keep it civil.


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Old 07-04-2010, 04:58 PM   #46
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But do you think we would have just been given our freedom if we asked?
I Guess by "I don't think He approves of genocide, raping women, stealing land, and slavery; because that is what America was formed from."

He don't talk about the independence day, but how America was really formed, because we can say it, even if it only became America after the independence, it begin to be formed before.

And it was formed killing the native Americans, stealing their lands, bringing African slaves, etc...

@WCH: For me it would rather be Thanks giving, because come on:

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The modern Thanksgiving holiday traces its origins from a 1621 celebration at the Plymouth Plantation, where the Plymouth settlers held a harvest feast after a successful growing season. It is ironic that this iconic event is generally referred to as the "First Thanksgiving", because, in reality, it was not, since it came two years after the true first Thanksgiving that was celebrated in Virginia.

Squanto, a Patuxet Native American who resided with the Wampanoag tribe, taught the Pilgrims how to catch eel and grow corn and served as an interpreter for them (Squanto had learned English while enslaved in Europe and during travels in England). Additionally the Wampanoag leader Massasoit had caused food stores to be donated to the fledgling colony during the first winter when supplies brought from England were insufficient.
If now in thanksgiving that's what is celebrated, after the genocide of the native Americans, it seems a little inappropriate.


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Old 07-04-2010, 05:06 PM   #47
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I hate when people say that massachusets is our origin and the first thanksgiving was there! And your right, The fourth is for celebrating the US and thanksgiving is north America in general.




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Old 07-04-2010, 05:29 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Te Darasuum Mandalor View Post
The king of coarse, but by 1776, the king was mad and it was parliment that made most of the rules. Other than that you are absolutely right.
Who in the world is teaching your history class? They probably should be fired.


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Old 07-04-2010, 05:37 PM   #49
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Perhaps Netflix



But in fairness, as was pointed out in the Noonan piece above, Thomas Jefferson himself lay the blame on all of Britain, not merely the King. As the head of Britain's empire, though, it was only natural (and right) he would be the main focus of the litany of complaints/charges.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:38 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Jae Onasi View Post
Who in the world is teaching your history class? They probably should be fired.
I think they got some Texas textbooks.


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Old 07-04-2010, 05:40 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Perhaps Netflix

I may be wrong, but I think Jae's quibble is that the King didn't go mad for another decade - he was quite (well, almost) sane in 1776.






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Old 07-04-2010, 05:43 PM   #52
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I may be wrong, but I think Jae's quibble is that the King didn't go mad for another decade - he was quite (well, almost) sane in 1776.
That may be true, but the joke was as to the source of TDM's info, not the veracity.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:51 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
As the head of Britain's empire, though, it was only natural (and right) he would be the main focus of the litany of complaints/charges.
Plus it made more sense. When the war for independence was over, they still wanted to trade with Great Britain. It was more prudent to go after the King than to further alienate trade partners, friends and family.

The founding fathers were brilliant men, but more importantly they had common sense.


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Old 07-04-2010, 05:53 PM   #54
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I think they got some Texas textbooks.
Couldn't be. Texas wasn't mentioned once, nor the Alamo.

interesting side note.. My girlfriend a native of AZ said they didn't have an Arizona History class...

At any rate, whether Parliment or King George made the rules, the founding fathers were opposed to rule by King George. They made specific mention of rule by King George several times. So the rules they opposed MAY have been made by Parliment, it WAS King George they opposed.


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Old 07-04-2010, 06:18 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
The founding fathers were brilliant men, but more importantly they had common sense.
Unfortunately, those same brilliant men today are derided as irrelevant racists, misogynists, etc... by people w/much less common sense.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 07-04-2010, 08:48 PM   #56
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Unfortunately, those same brilliant men today are derided as irrelevant racists, misogynists, etc... by people w/much less common sense.
That is because most people today only look at the Founding Fathers history in terms in which they understand. They do not take into account that the world was a much different place then. I am in no way implying that slavery, racism or sexism was right, just that that was a much different time. Empathy is something I believe is sorely missing in today’s society.

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Old 07-04-2010, 09:07 PM   #57
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Who is teaching my history class? Well, she has a phd in colonial history, went to priceton for grad school, and was a college proffessor.

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I've been homeschooled since third grade

(Sorry if you see this as editing this post, but I am no longer homeschooled.

I would not have considered the addition a problem had you not edited the part that I edited. Do not edit what a moderator has edited or added. Should you have a problem with it contact the moderator or another member of the staff.

Moderator note [07-04-2010 10:14 PM]

Det. Bart Lasiter is right and here I thought the detective title was honorary. So one of these two post are Spam, Im guessing it is this one since a PHD in colonial history sounds a little too convenient. Plus a PHD teaching junior high/high school does not sound economically sound. Please stop posting spam, contribute honestly or dont contribute at all.





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Old 07-04-2010, 09:21 PM   #58
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aren't you homeschooled or something just say your mom told you so and drop it



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Old 07-04-2010, 10:22 PM   #59
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Happy holiday to all. We, along with the rest of the world, may be in the time of trouble and uncertainty, but all of us as Americans need to realize that America is a nation of overcoming the impossible. Our country was founded by some of the smartest people that have ever lived, and their values are still instilled in our daily lives. Even though many of us have lost faith in our country's government due to disagreement of policy or whatever the reason(s), we must all remember that the will of the American people, for the greater good, as seen time and time again, will always prevail.

For those that are not Americans, I implore everyone to take a closer look at America. While I do not claim to believe that everyone has a negative view of America, I know that some do. Always remember that America has always been a country of its people rather than its government, and I hope that everyone who looks at America sees the people before the government. I do not want people to view America as a group of people who are power-hungry or greedy (even though I think that this view is skewed by many around the world). The overwhelming majority of us just want to live our lives in peace and prosperity which are the most basic wishes of all humans who are good. I have promised myself, today, that I will no longer look at countries that "hate" us with such disgust as I have in the past. It gets me nowhere.

America, to me, is made up of some of the most amazing ideas coming together from some of the greatest thinkers in history. America has always been a place of generosity and freedom and even in the time of uncertainty, these two values remain. I feel that if I had to describe America in one word...it would be "potential." America provides people with the potential to succeed, to choose their path, to do what they want to do. This potential is not only given to the people who inherit it at birth, but also those who travel to this great country.

Thank you to all the members of armed forces both home and abroad who protect this freedom and potential to be great.

Happy Independence Day to all!

p.s. sorry for the book!



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Old 07-04-2010, 11:57 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Te Darasuum Mandalor View Post
Who is teaching my history class? Well, she has a phd in colonial history, went to priceton for grad school, and was a college proffessor.
I'll be fascinated to learn who her advisor for her PhD was. It's possible that the professors I studied under when I was working on my Master's in history of medicine at Ohio State know who he or she is.
I'd also like to clarify that porphyria does not cause gout, although he may have had gout along with the porphyria.


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Old 07-05-2010, 12:58 AM   #61
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God bless America
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:12 AM   #62
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Actually, I have. I was just listing people off the top of my head.
Sorry, I've just reread my post and realised it could come across as a bit snarky. I didn't mean for that, only to say that Locke and Paine are pretty dashed important.


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Old 07-05-2010, 08:11 AM   #63
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Yes, because it was actually Paine who inspired many ideas for the declaration. It was Montisquie and Voltaire who inspired our constitution. Because if you read common sense you will find that many phrases are very similar to the declaration.

There is also some controversy wether independance day should be on July 2 instead of 4th. Because it was finished signing on the 2 but wasn't fully revised until two days later.




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Old 07-05-2010, 10:48 AM   #64
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Sorry, I've just reread my post and realised it could come across as a bit snarky. I didn't mean for that, only to say that Locke and Paine are pretty dashed important.
It's okay. No harm done.

I do feel kind of sorry for Paine, though. He was a hard-core deist, and people shunned and ridiculed him because they thought he was advocating atheism. Not that anything is wrong with either religion, but you do have to feel sorry for him.


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