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Old 01-13-2010, 12:52 AM   #1
VarsityPuppet
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Seeing KotOR 1 in a new light.

I played the first Knights of the Old Republic again for the first time in a loooong time. I originally played it back in 2004 and was obsessed with completing it then.

Well, since that time, I just played through for the heck of it: just to run through.

Anyways, having played TSL for soo long, I've gotten used to their characters and stories, and I realized I never really payed that much attention to my party members backstories or personalities.

So, here goes.

Bastila - I can't help but see her as a snobby bitch. I KNOW, I said it, someone arrest me. Yes, she is a pretty face to look at, but that's the only thing that's stopping VarsityRevan from putting that bitch in-line.

And all her 'trust' in the Jedi order... psh. I must have been playing TSL too long, because I can't seem to undertake Jedi training so easily knowing I'm being manipulated by the Jedi council.
Oh yeah, she's in on it too. That really isn't helping my already negative disposition toward her.


Canderous - There were a couple of lines in K1 that seemed to have odd word choice for the individual known as Canderous Ordo (at least to me).
Again, having played TSL for so long, I got used to hearing Mandalore's diction, and had almost completely forgotten Canderous' vocabulary.
Realizing this, I noted that there is a reasonable difference between Mandalore from TSL and Canderous. You'd have to be an idiot to not guess they are the same person, but when you actually think about it, they do have different personalities (as characters). I suppose 5 years have passed and with Canderous already being pretty old in K1, another 5 years into seniorland could have made him loads mellower. But still, in K1 he seems more like your standard 'hard-boiled' mercenary (that's a Mandalorian) whereas I guess Mandalore seemed to exhibit more "calm badassery" (maybe it's just because of that armor). I know I'm not right on with those descriptions, but you get the idea.

Also, is it just me, or does Canderous seem like the type that would drop the "F" bomb a lot?

Carth - Carth doesn't actually seem that whiny to me anymore. Granted, he still is a goody two shoes, and has terrible tasted in jacketwear, but this time around, he's just not that annoying. I guess I'm more annoyed with Bastila's condescension than anything.

Mission - I usually just disregarded Mission once I got Canderous or Bastila, but this time around, I guess I just appreciated her alot more. She seems more innocent and less judgemental that that jedi swamp-tramp Bastila, anyway.

Zaalbar - It's nice to have a wookiee that isn't a complete psycho.

T3-M4 - Knowing his major role in TSL, I look at him with a bit more awe, but he's still basically useless after the Sith Base.

Juhani - I don't know how you make the "Russian Cat Jedi" the ugliest character in the game.
I mean, I consider accents to be very sexy and in some circles, cats are sexy too. There is the lightsaber too of course, but everyone knows lightsabers are sexy.

But NOOOOOOOO! Lets give Juhani the most unappealing cat features and make her face too striking to ever look at. If it weren't for her appearance, I might actually really enjoy Juhani: I like Russian Jedi Cats.



In conclusion, Bastila is a Jedi-harlot.

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Old 01-13-2010, 01:20 AM   #2
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Hmm............. Seems like someone has a Bastila fixation. Juhani becomes a bit less unpalatable if you change her appearance w/the Selene mod or just use KSE to change her appearance altogether. Still, she's like an awkward mix of Carth and Bastila. Somewhat rigid about propriety like ole Basty and plagued w/self-doubt like Carth. Sometimes Zaalbar seems as worthless as T3 outside of the odd conversation mix on Kashyyyk. Found I used him less and less on succesive playthroughs. Ended up a lot of times w/Canderous, Jolee and HK as a bit of comic relief to mix things up. Wish they'd have done a little more w/Mission. Her story arc seems to sputter after Griff.


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Old 01-13-2010, 08:36 AM   #3
TKA-001
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Bastila - I can't help but see her as a snobby bitch. I KNOW, I said it, someone arrest me. Yes, she is a pretty face to look at, but that's the only thing that's stopping VarsityRevan from putting that bitch in-line.

And all her 'trust' in the Jedi order... psh. I must have been playing TSL too long, because I can't seem to undertake Jedi training so easily knowing I'm being manipulated by the Jedi council.
Oh yeah, she's in on it too. That really isn't helping my already negative disposition toward her.
You're falling into the classic trap of liking or disliking them based on how you'd feel if you were inserted into the game's storyline (with the knowledge of someone out-of-universe), rather than whether characterization, plot structure, etcetera is good or not.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:32 AM   #4
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Bastila - I can't help but see her as a snobby bitch. I KNOW, I said it, someone arrest me. Yes, she is a pretty face to look at, but that's the only thing that's stopping VarsityRevan from putting that bitch in-line.

And all her 'trust' in the Jedi order... psh. I must have been playing TSL too long, because I can't seem to undertake Jedi training so easily knowing I'm being manipulated by the Jedi council.
Oh yeah, she's in on it too. That really isn't helping my already negative disposition toward her.
Well I have to be honest with you: I disliked....no no HATED her even as a male player. I did not know(of course) I was manipulated when I played the game for the first time, but I got really tired of watch out for the dark side you can never be so sure.....and all that crap. Even when I was fully light-sided he was baabing about the dark side and stuff.... And the romance was a bit disappointing too(without mods). She never really wanted it because of the Jedi Code and when it is done : "We shouldn't have done that. So yeah:
Quote:
In conclusion, Bastila is a Jedi-harlot.
Quote:
Carth - Carth doesn't actually seem that whiny to me anymore. Granted, he still is a goody two shoes, and has terrible tasted in jacketwear, but this time around, he's just not that annoying. I guess I'm more annoyed with Bastila's condescension than anything.
My first playthrough was with a male character so Carth was too...neutral. Maybe a bit closer to whiny. But with playing through with a female character he was my FAVOURITE of all. You can have so hilarious dialoges with him



Bink's Sake

"I've barely eaten anything for many decades now. It feels like my stomach shriveled into my back........though i don't have a stomach or back because i'm a skeleton! Yohohohoho! SKULL JOKE!"

"My eyes have never seen such a pretty woman! But i'm a skeleton so my eyes don't see much."
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by TKA-001 View Post
You're falling into the classic trap of liking or disliking them based on how you'd feel if you were inserted into the game's storyline (with the knowledge of someone out-of-universe), rather than whether characterization, plot structure, etcetera is good or not.
Uh... trap? Didn't know I was supposed to be dodging anything while I played the game, least of all my own personal bias. I'm not worried about characterization or plot structure anyways: I'm just playing for fun for analyzing non-plot related gameplay, I'm not writing a review.

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Old 02-15-2010, 06:17 PM   #6
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I don't really care about the NPC's as you are Revan himself, the pure ownage


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Old 02-15-2010, 10:25 PM   #7
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I heart Bastila.


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Old 02-16-2010, 06:04 PM   #8
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I hate Bastila in male play through. She's alright in female because shes not Twilight obsessing over me.

As far as Carth goes... Carth isn't whiny. People love to call him that, but in reality you're the one always pressuring him to open up. If anything, you're being a nosy pest by asking him all these personal questions and he even outright avoids these questions at the beginning of the game.

Carths a nice guy and I think played his character well as an near middle age man who thought he had no family left. The guy had been broken down and was pretty closed. Just like his rendition in Mass Effect, he was only whiny if you forced him to be.
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Old 02-17-2010, 10:41 AM   #9
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I really liked Carth and Bastila. I never understood why people didn't like them, especially on this forum where I think most of us are participating because we are KotOR fanboys/girls.


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Old 02-17-2010, 05:23 PM   #10
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As far as Carth goes... Carth isn't whiny. People love to call him that, but in reality you're the one always pressuring him to open up.
Carth whines at Mission and Bastila if you have them in the party together, and he can't contain his self-righteousness with Canderous. More to the point, you're splitting hairs, because pressuring Carth into opening up is the only thing you can do with Carth in the game. If you talk to him, he whines about his tragic (ugh) past. Period.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 02-17-2010, 06:07 PM   #11
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Carth whines at Mission and Bastila if you have them in the party together, and he can't contain his self-righteousness with Canderous. More to the point, you're splitting hairs, because pressuring Carth into opening up is the only thing you can do with Carth in the game. If you talk to him, he whines about his tragic (ugh) past. Period.
Though I see it as somewhat justified. He lost his wife, his son was presumed dead for a good while...I can't really see how you can not whine or cry while saying that.


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Old 02-17-2010, 09:32 PM   #12
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Whether a character's emotions are justified or not is less important to me than whether their portrayal improves the viewer's experience of the story. I found Carth to have the opposite or no effect, but even that wouldn't be bad if his story wasn't so plain unoriginal.

On a slightly related note, I don't follow Avery's reasoning that Carth's whining is anything other than whining simply because it is the player that initiates it.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:39 PM   #13
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I never felt like Carth was whiny. You might call him a "goody two-shoes," but I've always felt like a guy I always knew I could count on. Were it real life, no one would ever call someone who's family was killed a whiner, and if you're not going to take the characters seriously, why discuss their character?


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Old 02-18-2010, 07:04 PM   #14
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if you're not going to take the characters seriously, why discuss their character?
Because this is a forum where you talk about stuff from the game.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 02-18-2010, 08:09 PM   #15
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Whether a character's emotions are justified or not is less important to me than whether their portrayal improves the viewer's experience of the story. I found Carth to have the opposite or no effect, but even that wouldn't be bad if his story wasn't so plain unoriginal.

On a slightly related note, I don't follow Avery's reasoning that Carth's whining is anything other than whining simply because it is the player that initiates it.
Fair enough.

Quote:
I never felt like Carth was whiny. You might call him a "goody two-shoes," but I've always felt like a guy I always knew I could count on. Were it real life, no one would ever call someone who's family was killed a whiner, and if you're not going to take the characters seriously, why discuss their character?
Eh...I felt like he whined sometimes, but not all the time. He did enough to get me mildly annoyed, but after that his personality went into a tolerable level for me.


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Old 02-18-2010, 09:13 PM   #16
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Because this is a forum where you talk about stuff from the game.
Cute, but unfitting considering discussing characters' personalities implies giving them qualities beyond entertainment value.


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Old 02-19-2010, 01:05 PM   #17
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Carth is slightly whiny, Bastilla is an obnoxious Jedi prude, and HK is the best NPC in the entire game. Period.

That being said I don't think Carth is intolerable, he portrayed his character well, if your entire family was killed what would YOU be saying? You'd probably be whining, all woah is me, and I wouldn't blame you. So, while Carth was whiny at points, I understand it.


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Old 02-19-2010, 02:14 PM   #18
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Cute, hurr durr

Quote:
Cute, but unfitting considering discussing characters' personalities implies giving them qualities beyond entertainment value.
Quote:
entertainment value.
For what other reason do you play a game?


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:34 PM   #19
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For what other reason do you play a game?
Addiction


Carth isn't as whiny as some people in real life, I'll give him that.

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Old 02-19-2010, 07:41 PM   #20
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Addiction


Carth isn't as whiny as some people in real life, I'll give him that.
He really isn't I am more whiny at times and with much less reason. Carth isn't to obnoxious, I don't understand why some people can't stand him. He really isn't that bad.


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Old 02-22-2010, 11:28 AM   #21
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Bastila - I do hate her for not revealing the PC's true identity, but, didn't she agree that the council were using them like pawns ??? (Where Malak turns her). It is said that, if you believe into your purpose with no doubt, and no alterations, then you cannot be changed. Alas, in Bastila's case, she did doubt her position in the council. Also, she was obeying orders, afterall.

Carth - His family torn apart, his homeplanet turned to ashes by his very own heroes, and his own allies turned on him... Now if that can't tear a man apart, what can ? I mean, there was nothing for Carth left to live for, besides revenge.

The freakin', **ckin' council - Never thought they could be wrong, too arrogant to look beyond their own beleif, and left the people to die and suffer because they "couldn't" take action...

Well, that's about all I have to say...


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Old 02-28-2010, 03:10 PM   #22
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Bastilla: Avery said it best, she's one of the better companions when she isn't Twilight obsessing.

Carth: Yes, he is whiny, yes it's understandable, no, it doesen't make it more tolerable, and yes, he needs Mira to give him a kick in the ass and some lessons in "how to deal with loosing a family". Overall though, his main problem is that he's so bland that it's hard to care about his story.

Revan: Most hated character in the game by far, mainly because with the choices avaliable, it was hard to even make even semi-sane decisions, as an example not being given a "lets use Bastillas ship" option meant I had to chop (more of) my allies to pieces for no good reason. His backstory didn't really help matters either.


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 02-28-2010, 03:30 PM   #23
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Trassk: Fun as always. He never lasts

Carth: He seemed more fun to play as, but still a jerk nonetheless. I sympathised with him more on this playthrough because I finished his sidequest. He was the only reason I went LS in this playthrough

Mission: She was as boring as ever to play as, but was funny at times. Ohh how I have always wished to train her in the Jedi arts! She is cute, she is funny, but kinda annoying at times. She can be really useful, though I think I prefered her better on my first playthrough.

Zalbaar: Now here is a fun guy! He may be hairy, but he is cool. I think I appreciated him the same in both playthroughs. He doesen't have the cool factor like Hanhhar from TSL, but is way nicer.

Bastila: Is it just me or did she seem WAY hotter my second play through. In the first one, she was nice to look at, but was kinda annoying! She was also more fun to play as this time through. This is all probably because I completed her entire side quest this time wheras last time, I didn't even get around to talking about her family! That doesen't change the fact she is a snotty nosed Jedi princess.

T3-M4: Just a helpful droid. He is cool and can be useful, but other than that, he doesen't help much. I just appreciate him the same way in my first playthrough, and for the sake of just being there. My brother broke into the Sith Base without T3 with an expirience cheat on his playthrough leaving T3 on Taris. Kinda funny if you ask me!

Canderous: I think I appreciate him more than my first playthrough mostly because he turned into Mandalore from TSL. He is cooler, and I even gave him awsome armor and an ausult gun at the end (Star Forge and uknown planet) and gave Carth the big gun. I can totally see him find the helmet after the ordeal in K1 is finished. I also learned his fascinating backstory.

Juhani: LOL, when I first played the game, I thought she was just a freakishly creepy Cat Woman (More insane than Saleena Kyle, Catwoman from batman) and I killed her, only to discover she was a party member. I just got used to her (I usually don't do backstories until I know what is expected on my next playthrough)

HK-47: As humerous as ever and in my opinion....more fun than ever to play as, you meatbags!

and last but not least.....

Jolee: A crazed old man that gives you alot of advise. I was really appreciative of him both playthroughs, but I still didn't get much outta him even on my second playthrough. I still think he is pretty cool.

Ok, there you have it. My version of seeing KOTOR1 in a new light!




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Old 03-04-2010, 05:26 PM   #24
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What--no Jolee love? He has some of the best lines in the game, second only to HK-47. Heh.


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Old 03-06-2010, 08:03 PM   #25
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In order of appearance:
Temporary/Introductory Party Members
Trask Ulgo, ensign Republic Fleet/Bunkmate: Nice guy, but don't get to know him
Core Party Members
Carth Onasi, Veteran Pilot and first class whiner: Nice guy (like Trask) but whines way too much. Takes betrayal so personally that he doesn't trust anyone. Not even himself.
Misson Vao: Little Twi'lek girl, sassy as hell.
Zaalbar the Wookie: Nice, reminds me of Chewbacca, possibly even Chewbacca's ancestor?
T3-M4: R2-D2's predecessor, except 1000000 times less useful.
Bastila Shan: Jedi Princess. Hot. Sassy.
Canderous Ordo: Bad ass, turns into Mandalore. Respect.
Jolee Bindo: Funny Old man. If you go through his entire dialog tree, which I did for the first time only recently, you see how hilarious he is.
Optional Party Members:
Juhani: Annoying, whiny, Russian-y, preachy. makes the Dark Side-Light Side transition entirely too easily, and is then high and mighty acting like she's always been good. Enraged to death too easily.
HK-47: hilarious.

Favorite character: Canderous: His whole demeanor is just bad-ass to the max.




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Old 06-17-2010, 04:02 AM   #26
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I personally liked the Carth character. He seemed sensitive and pretty cool. A soldier who has spent too much time on the battlefield and lost too many people close to him.

Bastila bugs me at times but more often then not I simply choose to turn evil and dominate her.

HK: Brilliant. (Need I say more?)

T3: WTF. (Need I say more?)

Jolee: One of my favorite characters. he's just so d@mn cool.

Canderous: Pretty cool, but I liked him better in TSL as Mandelore. I tend to ignore him in K1.

Juhani: As someone before me said 'Russian cat lady's are hot.' I just wish that she had a better model and texture set, and perhaps a tail. I honestly don't usually mess with her backstory, might change that one of these play-throughs though.

Mission: Sexy Twilek girl. Kinda fun to have in the party. Darkside = want to own her. Lightside = Feel fatherly or motherly towards her. 'nough said. (I use a mod that adds some dialog that makes her 19. It makes me feel better about myself.)

Zaalbar: Ugh. Needs more lines and a better story. I never use him.

Trask: Actually, I'd really like to see more of Trask. he was kind of a fun character but he died so darned quickly.


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Old 06-19-2010, 03:25 PM   #27
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I'm currently playing through KotOR again, I'll post my opinion when I finish, but I will say that as far as Taris is concerned: Bastila = PITA.


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Old 06-20-2010, 03:24 PM   #28
R2-X2
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Current Game: KotOR again. F*** yeah.
In my opinion the best/funniest dialogs are Jolee's, HK's and Mission's.



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Old 06-20-2010, 04:23 PM   #29
Demongo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R2-X2 View Post
In my opinion the best/funniest dialogs are Jolee's, HK's and Mission's.

Jolee and HK are the best characters in the whole game and they crack me up almost every single time they talk, but Mission? Maybe i just don't remember but i don't think she's that funny.



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"I've barely eaten anything for many decades now. It feels like my stomach shriveled into my back........though i don't have a stomach or back because i'm a skeleton! Yohohohoho! SKULL JOKE!"

"My eyes have never seen such a pretty woman! But i'm a skeleton so my eyes don't see much."
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:42 AM   #30
Mandalore The Shadow
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All of these seem like reasonable conclusions although it has been ages since I played KotOR 1


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Old 06-28-2010, 12:50 AM   #31
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yeah Juhani is really ugly. What the hell. Then again Mission is hot and overpowered.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:51 AM   #32
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So I've completed my first play-through in probably a year or so, and I found all of the characters to be engaging and interesting in their own way; except for Juhani and Teethree. I found the way Juhani relates her back story to be nothing but an annoying rant. The story itself was good, it was just told through gritted teeth. As for Teethree, while he's a great little droid, he just doesn't have enough screen time during dialogue scenes. I even used him to escape the Leviathan for the first time, and it was by far the most boring way to do it. (He was the only one I hadn't used yet.) Otherwise, I really think all of the companions added significantly to the game, and I plan on completing all their quests every playthrough from here on out. Now for the synopsis.

Carth: Solid guy with an unresolved past. Not whiny, just very personal. I hope he and Dustil become best friends.

Mission: She has one big attitude and heart to match. Too bad her brother is a coreslime. Quick tongue, too.

Zaalbar: Mission said it best: "He's the strong silent type, if you hadn't noticed." Honorable Wookie, I see greatness in his future. Hopefully Revan doesn't take him back into unknown space when he goes.

Bastila: Young Jedi in need of a few failures in order to mature. She does that, and as the game progresses, she continually becomes more humble and more likeable.

T3-M4: Best slicer in the galaxy! Not to shabby in a firefight, either. Droid shield disruptors work amazingly well against the Sith Governor, btw.

Canderous: Tough as nails merc, with lots of military experience. Pretty solid tactician, from what he tells you. Goes soft toward the end of the game, but maybe with a new purpose he'll put his grit back to good use.

Juhani: Angst, angst, and more angst! It's a wonder she didn't turn back to the dark side!!

HK-47: Amiable lover of all sentient organics. After all, without him you can't peacefully resolve the Sand People event.

Jolee Bindo: Crazy old kook with unique view of the force. Rambles in wizened parables a lot, I like him. Too bad about poor Nayama. Andor, too, for that matter.


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