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Old 06-29-2010, 10:22 PM   #41
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aang looks like jebbers aang's whatever he is



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Old 06-30-2010, 02:05 PM   #42
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Here is azn aang saying harro i r aang cannah pronounce werdz
This just feels right


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Old 06-30-2010, 02:33 PM   #43
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stereotypes feel right?

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Old 07-01-2010, 02:18 PM   #44
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oh wow the movie sucked so bad

this thread doesn't matter anymore
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:39 PM   #45
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Heh, going through the reception bit in Wikipedia...

Quote:
Roger Ebert gave the film half a star in his review, stating that it "bores and alienates its audiences," and notes the poor use of 3D among the film's faults. Ebert also criticized the casting of white actors in Asian roles, saying it was distracting to fans of the source material, while the actors that were picked gave bad performances.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Las...nder#Reception

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Old 07-01-2010, 08:50 PM   #46
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It is seriously bad. I'd rather watch Dragonball Evolution or that Dead or Alive movie (even though I haven't seen DOA).
  • The acting from most of the cast was terrible. Jake Lloyd did better in The Phantom Menace.
  • The actors mispronounced so many things. Did no one in the movie pick up an Avatar DVD and watch a single episode?
  • I think the act of bending didn't look very good. All the benders in the movie just looked silly. That's probably something they couldn't help. The martial arts and bending looked better in the cartoon.
  • They tried cramming 20 episodes into less than 2 hours.

I really hope M Night Shammy's kids tell him how much the movie sucked. Actually, it's his kids' fault for introducing the show to him.


Here's a nice review of the film.
Quote:
Originally Posted by from io9.com
I haven't even mentioned the dialog yet, which is where the real comic force of the movie comes in. Like when Aang and his friends are taken prisoner by the Fire Nation and locked up with a bunch of Earth-benders, in a big dirt enclosure. And Aang looks at the Earth-benders and shouts, "EARTH BENDERS! THERE IS DIRT UNDER YOUR FEET! THERE'S DIRT ALL AROUND YOU! WHY DON'T YOU FIGHT?" And everybody's like, "Whoa." They notice that there's a lot of dirt here, all right. How did they miss that? It's like they've got selective dirt-blindness.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:59 PM   #47
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Beat me to the io9 review. Lol'd buckets.




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Old 07-02-2010, 11:36 AM   #48
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I had to repost this pic

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Old 07-02-2010, 01:30 PM   #49
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I awoke this morning with a strange realization, probably stemming from io9's review.

M. Night has us all fooled. He doesn't want us to watch movies. He wants us to watch his career. The setup is all there: brilliant director creates a name for himself and subsequently destroys it. His career IS the movie, and we're living the twist.




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Old 07-04-2010, 10:35 AM   #50
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I don't watch the show and I have not seen the movie, but you mentioned Prince of Persia and how they caseted all white people. Your right about that, but you are forgetting one things, Persians are generally white, nowadays at least. And they were just trying to make the characters look like the do in the games.




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Old 07-04-2010, 01:12 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Te Darasuum Mandalor View Post
I don't watch the show and I have not seen the movie, but you mentioned Prince of Persia and how they caseted all white people. Your right about that, but you are forgetting one things, Persians are generally white, nowadays at least. And they were just trying to make the characters look like the do in the games.
And they have London british accent as well?

Anyway, it din't mattered to me on that movie and it won't matter in most others, unless the ethnicity is a central point on the movie's plot. I don't care if someone isn't actually eastern asian or northern european as long as they manage to convey the message and deliver, oh! so difficult to find, convincing acting. Why do we have make-up artists for, anyway?


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Old 07-04-2010, 01:17 PM   #52
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And they have London british accent as well?
Yes. All non-Americans from non-descript previous ages have to have British accents so we know they're not American, because we Americans would never figure it out otherwise from things like geography, costuming, being told outright, or, God forbid, subtitles. French is also allowed, but only if the characters are French.


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Old 07-04-2010, 01:22 PM   #53
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Probably because British accents are cool. For example, I would rather have a movie about ancient Rome's characters have a British accent over an Italian one, and don't get me started about an American accent in this genre of movies. British accents sound sophisticated. That makes you super cool, Astor and Holty.




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Old 07-04-2010, 01:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarWarsPhreak View Post
oh wow the movie sucked so bad
That's usually what happens when the source material sucks as well

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Old 07-04-2010, 10:28 PM   #55
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Asian or White...the movie sucked no matter what for 1 reason...




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Old 07-05-2010, 05:01 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del View Post
And they have London british accent as well?

Anyway, it din't mattered to me on that movie and it won't matter in most others, unless the ethnicity is a central point on the movie's plot. I don't care if someone isn't actually eastern asian or northern european as long as they manage to convey the message and deliver, oh! so difficult to find, convincing acting. Why do we have make-up artists for, anyway?
I lol'd. Thanks buddy.


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Old 07-05-2010, 06:52 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Windu View Post
I awoke this morning with a strange realization, probably stemming from io9's review.

M. Night has us all fooled. He doesn't want us to watch movies. He wants us to watch his career. The setup is all there: brilliant director creates a name for himself and subsequently destroys it. His career IS the movie, and we're living the twist.
This entire scenario is oddly familiar...


Anyone?


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:11 AM   #58
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^^^George Lucas?


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Old 07-06-2010, 07:41 AM   #59
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Bingo!


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:25 AM   #60
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At least Star Wars is his to ruin....

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Old 07-06-2010, 09:44 AM   #61
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But I actually care(d) about Star Wars.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
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Old 07-07-2010, 02:56 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pho3nix View Post
That's usually what happens when the source material sucks as well
Have you actually seen the source material? Or do you make your judgment off of the fact that it's a cartoon?
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:05 AM   #63
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http://www.racebending.com/v3/



Please watch these videos:
Show spoiler


Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman
I for one think the whole issue is silly. Who cares what race the actors belong to, if they can portray the character properly?! I didn't care that they were all white, if they are/were good actors and I wouldn't/don't care if they weren't/that they aren't all white either for the exact same reason.
Not meaning to be offensive here, but would you care if they cast an Denzel Washington as Superman? How about Justin Bieber playing Kunta Kinte? Jet Lee as Patton?

I understand your reasoning, but sometimes portraying a character faithfully requires casting the character faithfully as well. There comes a point where you cross the line from "good actor" to whitewashing, not helped by the fact that the casting call asked primarily for white actors, and Paramount has confirmed this. They cast all 3 heroes as Caucasians and 1 of the villains (he was later replaced by a non-white when the actor went on to other things), and then asked exclusively for people of Middle Eastern and Asian descent for the background roles.

Not only that, but the kid who they got to play Aang has never acted before. Let that mull around in your head for a moment, then try to think of how many young Asian child actors would have killed for that role. A movie, especially one of this potential, adaption of a show that didn't have a single person of Caucasian ethnicity would have been an amazing opportunity for some up and coming Asian and middle eastern actors to get their foot in the door of a business that is well known for whitewashing Asian roles for white actors.

Fact of the matter is, the creators of the series went out of their way to properly represent the cultures they were aiming for and has received very high praise for its respectful depiction of Asian culture, and even more respect among parents who are thrilled that their Asian and Native American children have role models to look up to, since there is a very disturbing trend (led primarily by Disney) that to be a Princess or a hero... you have to be blond, tall, and white.

I really do not mean to offend you personally, but the casting of white actors in an Asian role is far too accepted right now. I very much doubt many of the nay sayers to this movement would have the same opinion if the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry in Glory had been cast Caucasian.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111...ryid=1055&cs=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman
On another note, when we talk about Avatar The Last Airbender in particular, all of the voice actors on that cartoon were white people/kids, with the exception of the late Mako who did an excellent job voicing Uncle Iroh and nobody seems to be bothered with that little fact, yet they are bothered with an all-white live action cast. This is why I find it silly.
I think you miss the point. For starters, the voice acting community is a LOT smaller than the actual acting community, and the pool of actors for Saturday morning cartoons is even smaller. It takes an ear, but you'll notice when watching, say, Cartoon Network that the voices really start to overlap. The other nice thing about voice acting is that a voice is, for the most part, colorblind.

Physical Acting is not.

"Casting characters of color with white actors sends the message that white people are more qualified to represent people of color than people of color themselves.

“Reverse racism” isn’t endemic in Hollywood right now; quite the opposite. There are actors of color actors equally as talented as the white actors selected to play the roles in The Last Airbender–except Ringer, Peltz, and Rathbone have other lead roles (white leading characters) open to them and actors of color do not. 82% of lead roles in Hollywood go to white actors. Less than 2% of lead roles go to Asian actors and less than 1% go to Native American actors.

Asian American actors should have the same opportunities to play Asian characters as white actors have to play white characters."


Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman
Another example is the movie Daredevil, where Kingpin - the main villain - who is white in the comics was portrayed by a black actor, Michael Clarke Duncan. I don't remember hearing or reading about anyone having problem with that casting choice. Also, IMO, the actor did a very good job with that role in an otherwise mediocre movie.
And the guy who made that casting call should be bonked on the head. I'm sure if he tried really hard, Justin Bieber would play a great Kunta Kinte in a remake of Roots... but that really isn't the point.

Now, I will not say that the casting callers are racists; That is taking it a little too far. What I will say is this: There was a time when men played women, African Americans were played by painted Caucasians, and more recently Asians have been predominantly cast as Caucasians. It may not be racist, but it is still discriminatory.

"We are not in a position to judge whether any individual–unaffiliated with the casting or not–is personally racist.

What Racebending.com can assess is the production of The Last Airbender’s cultural competency and the discriminatory or disparate impact of the production’s decisions. A film production need not have discriminatory intent or be “racist” in order to make decisions with a discriminatory impact.

In the case of The Last Airbender, the production’s decisions–whether deliberate or inadvertant–have reinforced glass ceilings in Hollywood. The idea that Hollywood casts films with a glass ceiling is well established and has been studied extensively both in academia and by professional organizations including the Screen Actor’s Guild."


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity
I probably would have similar complaints when, for example, people with no Native American heritage are given roles as a tribe's men and women in some movie even partially about/inclusive of Native American tribes. Not because I myself am part N.A. but because it's historically inaccurate to do that, and ignorant like I said.
Well, if it adds anything for you, Katara and Sokka were Inuit in the show and were cast as white as paper actors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
Actually you missed the point too. Wasn't asserting what the actual identity of anyone was in the first place. Merely pointing out that judging strictly by appearance wouldn't necessarily lead one to come to the conclusion that said "oh, guess I'll have to cast a *pick your race* actor for this part b/c it's self evident that that charachter is..." Far as I'm concerned, I don't care what race or nationality an actor is as long as he or she is good at what they do. As for anime in general, I'm not a really big fan of many of the storylines or even the artistic styles used tbh.
http://www.racebending.com/v3/backgr...olorblindness/

Again, I honestly don't believe that claim. This is acceptable because you have, incorrectly, assumed the cast of Avatar: The Last Airbender is racially colorblind... which it is not, and is actually very deep into Asian, Middle Eastern, and Inuit culture. Most character in the show are darker skinned for starters.

The reason I don't believe your claim is for the same reasons I gave igyman; Caucasians playing Asians, right now, is culturally acceptable but I don't think you'd hold the same opinion if, say, Calvin in a Calvin & Hobbes was played by an African American teenager girl. Sure, she may be a great actor... but c'mon, would you really let that slide?

"Colorblindness. I have been hearing this term more and more. It sounds nice, but it does more harm than good. After centuries of giving value to the color of a person’s skin, attempting to push race aside now also pushes aside the struggles that many people have gone through because of the value placed on their skin. Colorblindness is passive. It helps maintain the status quo.

The idea of colorblindness is positive when a person is not preferred over another based on race. But this term also carries a connotation of inability or unwillingness to perceive something that has meaning to those who can perceive it. I would like the uniqueness of every single person to be admired, not ignored. Instead of trying to tackle and dismantle the idea of race, it would be more productive to address the racial inequality that prevails.

Why were white people the automatic choice for main roles?

The casting choices may have been made with the intent or pretense of colorblindness, but the consequences are far from racially neutral. Not many roles are given to Asian Americans in American movies, and the few roles are usually martial art roles and other stereotypical tropes. The Last Airbender was a great opportunity to showcase the talent of Asian actors and actresses. Unfortunately, decisions were made to change the world and the people of the series to fit tropes that are identifiable to American society: the good light-skinned people fighting the bad dark-skinned people and in order to win, some dark-skinned people must join the light-skinned people"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
In live action, most people care less about the race of the lead than whether he or she was memorable or merely the popular flavor of the moment. While some purists end up possibly disappointed (whatever the project), most people don't either know enough about the actual background or don't really give a damn in the end. Judging by box office, a lot of people are willing to suspend disbelief about a lot of things if the end product is entertaining enough.
1) Reboot Roots with a bleach blond white guy and see if you get the same response.
2) The Last Airbender, even the movie, takes place in an Asian/Middle Eastern inspired world, where the writing, mannerisms, and so on are mostly Chinese. The 3 main characters in the movie are the only Caucasians there. There is suspension of disbelief, and then there is trying to convince your audience to jump off a suspension bridge.
3) Pointing out the bold statement: And there in lies the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
Still, since Airbenders is apparently "anime" and not a whole lot of people seem that worked up over it (as a % of potential audience in general. I've already granted you that purists would/might be upset), I guess we'll just have to wait and see if enough people even care in the end.
Really? Because the whitewashing has been the primary talk of the movie since the beginning of production. You've got me on the purists, but thanks to the magical powers of time travel...

http://www.racebending.com/v3/featur...ast-airbender/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/last...name_order=asc
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/last...iews_users.php

Show spoiler


Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
I know I couldn't care less who's cast....
Honestly, that is a shame

Quote:
Originally Posted by Te Darasuum Mandalor
I don't watch the show and I have not seen the movie, but you mentioned Prince of Persia and how they caseted all white people. Your right about that, but you are forgetting one things, Persians are generally white, nowadays at least. And they were just trying to make the characters look like the do in the games.
...

Ummm, OK, I dare you to go to Iran and tell passersby that they are mostly Caucasian. No, no, I dare you to go to Iran and tell them they are are mostly British Caucasian. I'll see you again after you get that bloodied eye fixed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
Dragonball
This deserves special mention because Goku is to Japan what Superman is to the United States, in a way. Hollywood casting Goku as some skinny, bad white actor didn't seem to bother US citizens, but it did pick nerves in Japan. To inverse this, how about we cast a skinny Chinese man to play Superman in the next reboot!

Think we'd care then?

Think you'd care if a director changed the superman symbol into a christian cross? Oh, yeah, forgot to mention:

Show spoiler


Those tattoos are supposed to go all the way up his back, then across his arms and body. They do -not- look like a cross in the show.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry about busting balls over this, but I find it rather shocking that people are so content with this subject. Its seems to be fairly casually regarded, which is a shame since its been a long time, ongoing problem with Hollywood casting. And yes, it -does- have effects beyond production:



"Sixty years ago, Kenneth and Mamie Clark studied a group of African-American children ages three to seven. The children were shown two dolls, identical except for skin color – one black, one white. What they found would help convince the nation of the need to desegregate.

Ten of sixteen black children preferred the white doll to the black doll. The children were far more likely to attribute positive characters – like “good,” “pretty,” and “nice” – to the white doll. In contrast, they were quick to point out the black doll as the one which was “bad” or “ugly.”

In 2006, a young high school girl repeated the test. This is what she found, more than half a century after the Clarks ran their original study."


View page
YouTube Video

"Inspired by the recreation of the doll test, a junior college English class performed a similar study. This time, they involved children of different ethnicities and dolls of three colors: white, black, and brown."


View page
YouTube Video

For a kids movie, do you really think things like that don't leave a lasting impact?

The show did.

Show spoiler


“The tone of a character’s skin is not about division or segregation- it represents origin, history, ancestry, cultural integrity and, ultimately, an indelible human identity. To misrepresent the culture of the characters in Avatar is to disrespect their story.”
-A 26 year old woman, who identifies as white, from Salt Lake City, UT

"I’m the proud elder cousin to two little half-Algonkin half-Inuit girls who never saw anyone who remotely resembled them doing anything more than “Being Indian on TV” before I introduced them to Avatar: The Last Airbender. Seeing the most recent publicity photos made me cry with the message it sent: white people can be anything – brown people are interchangeable.”
-A 24 year old woman of French, Ashkenazi and Algonkin descent from Ontario, Canada

“Anyone who thinks this isn’t a big deal should think about the lack of minority heroes in children’s shows and be mailed a photo of my little cousin’s face when she saw a blue-eyed, fair-skinned, light-haired actress cast as Katara.”
-An 18 year old Black American woman from Washington D.C.


Oh, and the cast have some good quotes as well:

Jackson Rathbone, the white actor cast to play an ethnically Inuit hero, Sokka, said: “I think it’s one of those things where I pull my hair up, shave the sides, and I definitely need a tan. It’s one of those things where, hopefully, the audience will suspend disbelief a little bit.”

What does that description bring to mind if, say, I dunno... he was playing an African American?



Racist? Hard to say, since context is missing in this picture, but the effect is the same: Its a white actor playing a different race in place of someone of color. The intentions don't have to be overtly racist to at least be discriminatory. Again, how much do you think you'd care if the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry in Glory had been cast Caucasian?

Its the same thing. Its not only whitewashing, but its whitewashing another's work that they spend years of their dedicated time and research on. I dunno, how about when we remake Star Wars in 10 years we cast Westley Snipes for Han Solo, Professional Wrestler Dwayne "the rock" Johnson as Luke Skywalker, Verne Troyer as Leia? I mean, they are all decent actors... right?

So, in closing, allow me to list off the Awards the series gained:

2005 Pulcinella Awards:
Best Action/Adventure TV Series - Won
Best TV Series - Won

33rd Annie Awards:
Best Animated Television Production - Nominated
Storyboarding in an Animated Television Production (The Deserter) - Won
Writing for an Animated Television Production (The Fortuneteller) - Nominated

34th Annie Awards:
Character Animation in a Television Production (The Blind Bandit) Won
Directing in an Animated Television Production (The Drill) Won

36th Annie Awards:
Best Animated Television Production for Children - Won
Directing in an Animated Television Production (Joaquim Dos Santos for Into the Inferno) - Won

2007 Genesis Awards:
Outstanding Children's Programming (Appa's Lost Days) - Won

Primetime Emmy Awards:
Outstanding Animated Program (City of Walls and Secrets) - Nominated
Individual Achievement Award (Sang-Jin Kim for Lake Laogai) - Won

Nickelodeon Kid's Choice Awards 2008:
Favorite Cartoon - Won

Annecy 2008:
TV series (Joaquim Dos Santos for The Day of Black Sun Part 2: The Eclipse) - Nominated

56th Golden Reel Awards:
Best Sound Editing in a Television Animation (Avatar Aang) - Nominated

2008 Peabody Awards:
"Unusually complex characters and healthy respect for the consequences of warfare" - Won

Take them how you will, but at least try to take away the idea that this is a well known, well respected series that was, in of itself, not only unique for a Children's show, but unique as an American production. It respectfully represented cultures of the world and created role models where almost none were before.

If you can't see the problem with whitewashing a cast of previously developed, well loved, and well respected people of culture and color... well, I think you need to sit back and do some reflection on why you are indifferent.

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Old 07-08-2010, 04:28 AM   #64
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Those vids of the different coloured dolls scares me... it REALLy scares me... but it also reminded me of something that happened to me that I talked about on my forum: http://www.twilightlynk.com/forums/t155/#post3129

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Old 07-08-2010, 04:39 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Te Darasuum Mandalor View Post
I would rather have a movie about ancient Rome's characters have a British accent over an Italian one
I would rather have a movie about ancient Rome's characters speaking Latin with British English subtitles, but to each his own.


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Old 07-08-2010, 04:57 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
Not meaning to be offensive here, but would you care if they cast an Denzel Washington as Superman?
I would probably be thrilled with that casting choice, since Denzel Washington is an excellent actor and I'm sure he'd do his job properly, no matter how strange a black Superman might look to some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
I understand your reasoning, but sometimes portraying a character faithfully requires casting the character faithfully as well.
I agree, but the quality that should primarily be considered is still, IMO, the actual acting skills. This is not to say that white actors do better jobs, especially since some of my favorite actors are black people - Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington, Samuel L. Jackson are three examples. Obviously The Last Airbender movie has failed in that regard, but would you be equally, more, or less upset with "Worst Case Scenario No.2": they cast the races properly, but the acting quality still sucks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
It takes an ear, but you'll notice when watching, say, Cartoon Network that the voices really start to overlap. The other nice thing about voice acting is that a voice is, for the most part, colorblind.
I do notice the overlapping and can often recognize a specific voice actor, but I disagree with you that voice-acting is colorblind. If that were true, the VAs wouldn't bother imitating different stereotypical accents for characters of different races/nationalities.

Consider this: in the Avatar cartoon, the main characters - Aang, Katara, Sokka and Zuko speak american english, while most of the background characters speak with stereotypical asian accents. This obviously doesn't bother either of us, even though it can be interpreted as discriminatory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
And the guy who made that casting call should be bonked on the head.
Perhaps he should, but my point still stands - nobody made a fuss about that casting call. Nobody had anything bad to say about Michael Clarke Duncan's portrayal of the Kingpin either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
If you can't see the problem with whitewashing a cast of previously developed, well loved, and well respected people of culture and color... well, I think you need to sit back and do some reflection on why you are indifferent.
Even though this wasn't directed at me personally, I think it still deserves an answer. Where I live, race isn't a big issue. This isn't to say we don't have racists in Serbia - those pests, unfortunately, exist in every part of the world, but I haven't really noticed people caring about the color of someone's skin, or treating people badly because of it.

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Old 07-08-2010, 05:08 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery View Post
Again, I honestly don't believe that claim. This is acceptable because you have, incorrectly, assumed the cast of Avatar: The Last Airbender is racially colorblind... ....
Actually, you're incorrect here. I've seen just enough of it to know I wouldn't follow it.

Quote:
The reason I don't believe your claim is for the same reasons I gave igyman; Caucasians playing Asians, right now, is culturally acceptable but I don't think you'd hold the same opinion if, say, Calvin in a Calvin & Hobbes was played by an African American teenager girl. Sure, she may be a great actor... but c'mon, would you really let that slide?
Frankly, you're mixing color-blind w/gender blind. If someone wanted to adapt Calvin and Hobbes to their racial group and kept the essence of the humor, it wouldn't bother me at all. You're free to believe whatever you wish though.......no matter how wrong.


Quote:
Why were white people the automatic choice for main roles?
Most likely b/c Americans (and the west in general) were and are predominantly caucasian.


Quote:
1) Reboot Roots with a bleach blond white guy and see if you get the same response.
2) The Last Airbender, even the movie, takes place in an Asian/Middle Eastern inspired world, where the writing, mannerisms, and so on are mostly Chinese. The 3 main characters in the movie are the only Caucasians there. There is suspension of disbelief, and then there is trying to convince your audience to jump off a suspension bridge.
3) Pointing out the bold statement: And there in lies the problem.

Two things here, Roots is a fictional story based in historical context. I suppose if Kunta Kinte is supposed to be white, than the slave owners would probably have to be black/other than white. Avatar is a completely fictional series that doesn't require an audience to actually know the cultural background of the charachters to be able to enjoy a story if it's well executed. Not saying it hurts, though, to try to be faithful to the artist's original vision.

Quote:
Really? Because the whitewashing has been the primary talk of the movie since the beginning of production. You've got me on the purists, but thanks to the magical powers of time travel...

*stuff edited for brevity*

Honestly, that is a shame
I'm guessing that most of those people were media critics, so I'd expect that from them (add their lot to the purists...to the degree there's no overlap, I suppose). But don't mistake my attitude for being so much one of "anything goes" as that's life. As I said in post #18 "The choices no doubt have more to do w/perceived box office potential and familiarity than anything else. It's myopic, but hey.....it's Hollywood/show biz." Frankly, It might have been more interesting to see Kung Fu w/Bruce Lee in the end.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman

Last edited by Totenkopf; 07-08-2010 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:02 AM   #68
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Tot, you are in possession of a wealth of misinformation...

Avatar is fictional, yes. So is Lord of the Rings. Casting Lord of the Rings with a bunch of black and asian people doesn't make sense because Lord of the Rings draws much of its history from European elements.

Quote:
I'm guessing that most of those people were media critics, so I'd expect that from them (add their lot to the purists...to the degree there's no overlap, I suppose).
No, it's a grassroots movement led by fans of Avatar: The Last Airbender, not all of whom are Asian.

Quote:
It's myopic, but hey.....it's Hollywood/show biz." Frankly, It might have been more interesting to see Kung Fu w/Bruce Lee in the end.
I don't get this sentiment. It's the same reasoning that people give for any injustice, ever.

Black people can't vote? Hey, it's the biz.
Black people can't act? Hey, it's the biz.
Japanese people in internment camps? Hey, it's the government.
Manifest destiny? Hey, it's the biz.
etc.

And how can you doubt that Kung Fu would have been more interesting with the creator of the show that he expected to star in? He was the most talented martial artist of his time and probably our time as well.

F*** David Carradine.




That's the last time I buy anything just because it's furry!

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Old 07-09-2010, 10:59 AM   #69
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Been working on this post for about 7 hours, so to save time just imagine your quotes are somewhere in there, Totenkopf. I'm basically responding to both of you at the same time, so, unfortunately, signals are going to be mixing here and for that I give a pre-emptive apology. Also, no offense Totenkopf, but I just had a particularly hard time figuring out the context and wording of your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by igyman View Post
I would probably be thrilled with that casting choice, since Denzel Washington is an excellent actor and I'm sure he'd do his job properly, no matter how strange a black Superman might look to some.

I agree, but the quality that should primarily be considered is still, IMO, the actual acting skills. This is not to say that white actors do better jobs, especially since some of my favorite actors are black people - Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington, Samuel L. Jackson are three examples.
True, I don't doubt he'd do a good acting job. Still, Superman is "Caucasian... alien". Even though the costume is indeed his most defining feature, I think there is still something important to be had in someone's race. Mileage varies from character-to-character, however.

Like Men In Black. In the comics, Agent J is a white man, but in the movie he is played by Will Smith. MIB is a damn good movie, I think, and is one of the defining movies of Smith's career. As is the case with most rules, there are exceptions; That I wont deny. But, like Superman, race is not a primary theme or driving force behind the characters.

But, how do you feel about the other examples? I also put forth Kunta Kinte and the 54th MVI. Kunta Kinte is fictional, but his race is -integral- to the entire plot of the series since it is based on African American slavery. The 54th MVI is an American icon. While they may be loosely based on real world events, is it not a disservice to cast them as a different looking race?

Good, white actors could, indeed, play these roles. The -difference- is that these characters are inextricably tied to their race. Kunta Kinte's entire character, in a way, revolves around his race and how he and those of his race were treated as slaves at the time. The 54th MVI was the first black infantry regiment in the United States history. How about a movie portraying Martin Luther King Jr.?

To pull a quote from Totenkopf:
"Merely pointing out that judging strictly by appearance wouldn't necessarily lead one to come to the conclusion that said 'oh, guess I'll have to cast a *pick your race* actor for this part b/c it's self evident that that character is...;"

In these cases and stories, the race is -very- much self-evident. These, and many other stories, revolve around the time, place, and people. It is entirely possible to cast Will Ferrel as Martin Luther King Jr. and, maybe, get some serious acting out... but do you see my point?

It would be like making a movie about the life of Harvey Milk and making him a straight man. Like making a film about Jehanne d'Arc and making her a man. It is the same thing because these character's entire lives and significance revolve around these traits. It is an absolute disservice and disrespect to what these characters mean and what they mean to the people that hear their names.

This goes beyond "acting skills". The physical portrayal of these characters are, in many ways, what makes them and what helps glue them into the world that they are influencing. This is something you really cannot "act" away. You -could- use make up to change an actors race, but then you run into the "[Color] Face" problem.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm reading through this and seeing a few ways this can be misinterpreted...

I'll use two movies as examples: The Birdcage(1996), and Tropic Thunder.

The Birdcage (1996) is a movie about a gay couple, played by Robin Williams and Nathan Lane, who own and operate a club. Nathan Lane, both in the movie and out, is an open homosexual. Robin Williams, however, is a straight man portraying a gay man. The movie is now the highest grossing and one of the most well respected LGBT movies in America.

Now, you may be thinking "exactly, a straight man pulled off the role because he is a good actor". Welllll... not exactly my point.

Robin Williams portrayed a gay man. The point I'm trying to get across is that "whitewashing", in this context, would be to make Robin's character a straight man instead. Or, rather, to make a remake and make Robin's character straight. "Straightwashing", or "sexuality lifting". It changes the entire tone, theme, and point of the movie and characters. Essentially, the theme goes from LGBT, to a bro-mance. You cannot "act" the change of theme away.

Now, what if Robin's character had originally been black? Robin pulled off a great gay white man, so just make him look black for the movie, right?

This brings me to Tropic Thunder, sort of the inverse of my point. Robert Downey Jr portrays a white method actor going to extreme lengths in his career. Namely, he decides to play an African American soldier and gets "surgery" to look the part. By definition, this is pretty much Black Face; Downey is a white man playing, by proxy, a black man. Both he and Stiller were pretty cautious about the implications behind the character, but the movie seemed to go over well... but, unlike The Last Airbender, this was satire and the entire movie is sort of a political statement on my point:

Kirk Lazarus was, basically, "whitewashing" the fictional movie within the movie. This could also be considered a contrived "race lift". Instead of finding an actual black actor to portray the character, Lazarus underwent "surgery" to look black and they hired him. Alpa Chino is there to make the obvious point: "You aren't black; you're Australian!"

You may be thinking, "yes, does that not validate my point? He is a 'great' method actor playing the part, and, in a way, is this not the exact same situation as Robin William's in Birdcage? What about Downey himself?"

Well... yes and no.

Downey is, much like Robin Williams, portraying the character presented. His character uses black face, so by proxy so does he. Robin's character is gay and kisses men, so by extension so must he. Both men are capable of playing their respective parts faithfully on a physical level; they are white, and so are their characters in the story.

Lazarus, however, is a white man playing a black man. Going further up, like Will Ferrel playing Martin Luther King Jr. Now, I submit to you that there is no logical difference between Will Ferrel/Martin, and Robin/Armand... but more a symbolic difference.

Martin Luther fought against black oppression; blacks always coming second to whites. He wanted desegregation, equality of men, and so on. Do you understand why casting a white man to play him over black actors is absolutely f***ing offensive?

I do not care how good the white actor is. At all. You could objectively find the best white actor in the history of earth and I would not care. Fact of the matter is, race has meaning. Race has history, culture, literature, growth and wilting. To a story involving Martin Luther King Jr, race was his entire driving force. It defined him. It made and killed him.

I could say right now, "no offense, but...", however, I'm not going to:

Being Colormute is on the same coin as a Racist. It is the void on the other end of the spectrum.

http://www.racebending.com/v3/backgr...olorblindness/

Unintentional or not, thinking that it is OK to throw any race onto any character is disrespectful to everything that race has stood for over the years. It is a social construct that the world has built, and to ignore that is to maintain the status quo.

People like Sam Jackson had to work very, very hard in their earlier career to get where they are now. He went to Martin's funeral. He was convicted for holding his school board hostage and demanding equal treatment for his race. He worked as a social worker, and tried to join a black power movement. He is a segregation kid that has grown into one of the top actors in Hollywood.

Would you cast a white man to play him in a biography just because you thought he was good? Would you paint up his face like Lazarus? How do you think a man of segregation would feel about an old white man in black face acting out his life?

What I mean is this:
Imagine you do something worthy of recognition, if you haven't already. Alive or dead, someone decides to make a movie about your life. Either you sign over the rights, or your holder does, but either way it ends up being made.

Except the person they cast looks nothing like you or your ethnicity. "I just hope they are a great actor!" you may say. However, you're still being portrayed incorrectly. Even if he gets every word you ever spoke right, the fact remains that what the audience feels and sees is through the filter of the actor's ethnicity and appearance.

Its false information. Misleading information. Intentional or not, it could lean, if not flip the themes of the movie. A good actor is one thing, but miscasting can harbor many other problems.

A good example of this has already been given in this thread by GTA:SWcity:

Racial Ambiguous in Japanese/Korean animation.

When the Japanese view anime and its, often, unrealistic representation of people you'd think that they would say "oh look, white people!" when actually its quite the opposite. They immerse themselves and theie culture into it.

However, when you don't have that suspension of disbelief you look at, say, Naruto and the first thing that comes to mind is "oh look, white people!". Then people get the idea that the Japanese idolize the white man, and so on. This is an interpretation of something that they don't recognize on a daily basis.

This is why anime is drawn the way it is; It has the ability to pull in many audiences for its depictions of the world. The Japanese view Goku as Japanese; Hollywood views him as that white dude from War or the Worlds.

Conscious or not, you catch these things. James Cameron's Avatar has some particularly egregious examples of this:
  • The private military force being cast as slack jawed, redneck looking whites and white corporate takeover.
  • A race of familiar, yet unfamiliar people, and their struggle against this white force.
  • A white man who joins the other race and, in the end, ends up being better than them at everything they do for no good reason.
  • The whites join the darker races to fight off the more evil whites.
Wanna know the two secrets of why this movie was a huge success? It opened in the fall, and it manipulates the F*** out of its audience. Namely, it uses overt and hidden racial cues to evoke emotional reaction, while keeping the Na'vi racially ambiguous so that everyone could project onto them.

People catch this stuff. They either see it and project, or they see it and laugh at how manipulative its being. The reason is because we're an incredibly sight driven creature; within a second we form a preconception of what someone is like entirely based on how they look. This is why we spend billions on clothes, cosmetics, plastic surgery, weight loss programs, and art.

Continuing in your next quote...

Quote:
Obviously The Last Airbender movie has failed in that regard, but would you be equally, more, or less upset with "Worst Case Scenario No.2": they cast the races properly, but the acting quality still sucks?
Less upset.

Why?

Because the scale is bring tipped. Scenario 1 leaves me with a whitewashed and unintentionally racist cast who are bad actors, but Scenario 2 just leaves me with bad acting.

Scenario #2 is better in more ways than I could fit into this post.

I've ran around the topic of other media, but how exactly does everything above link to Avatar: The Last Airbender?

Avatar is Asian influenced. The characters are Inuit, Middle Eastern, and Chinese. While some characters may appear Caucasian, you're simply falling into the anime trap again; they are not and never have been. The mannerisms, customs, writing, art styles, martial art styles, visuals, architecture, religious views... they are all, in some way, based off of some aspect of Asian culture. The various nations are even a little mixed race, but the primary point I'm trying to make here is, again, the entire setting is Asian.

Ok, so what is wrong with the movie? It has everything listed above, right?

The movie's setting, theme, message, tone... EVERYTHING in it is spun on its back by one simple, inescapable fact:

The 3 heroes are white, and the enemies are all dark. Not just dark, but the fire nation, in the show, is one of the lighter skinned races.

"But, the general public isn't going to catch that. They don't know the setting of the show."

I now bring James Cameron's Avatar back to the stand. I bring Disney animation to the stand. I bring every pieces of art, cosmetic appliance, and historical document on any conflict involving race. I, again, bring these two videos to be watched:

View page
YouTube Video
View page
YouTube Video

“The tone of a character’s skin is not about division or segregation- it represents origin, history, ancestry, cultural integrity and, ultimately, an indelible human identity. To misrepresent the culture of the characters in Avatar is to disrespect their story.”

M Night Shamwow has done something that Disney has been trying to repair for years about their image: creating a racist undertone in their movies.

The Last Airbender is no longer about a cast of multicultural heroes (these 3 are not even half the heroes in the show), but rather the same kind of f***ing manipulation JC's Avatar put forward.

When kids watch this movie, they once again get to see the white heroes go forth and save the darkies from the super darkies. Everyone is in second place to the 3 mighty paper white children. Even the Avatar before Aang was cast as white, which furthers the idea that the heroes of this universe are the only Caucasians around. Your mind picks this up. This is an injection into your subconscious, and is even worse for a growing kid's mind. JC used it to make the top grossing movies of all time. Governments used it to control their respective populations in every war since Alexander when he discovered the true power of a symbol, and the use of art as propaganda.

Off the top of your head, name 5 Inuit/Native American heroes on TV for kids today. Name 5 Chinese role models in Saturday morning cartoons. Then, name 5 Middle Eastern heroes being represented anywhere in American culture right now for children. If you reach the max, keep going and then do the same for white heroes.

Kids, especially in America, are lacking in non-white, positive portrayals of race. Going up further in the age bracket this simply reinforces a wall for Asian actors in Hollywood. Again, they get less than 2% of the leading roles and are more often replaced by a white actor.

This movie had a huge budget, and a huge marketing wallet. It had the opportunity to be one of the few non-Caucasian movies to be pushed out of Hollywood and it failed miserably.

But, again, this is not just random cast being pulled:
http://www.racebending.com/v3/backgr...her-ethnicity/

"Caucasian or any other ethnicity"

In a casting call, the first race to be placed up is the preferred. Its a subtle way of filtering applicants. Which means, this movie was not hero cast because of -skill-, it was hero cast because those that came in were -white-, or, rather, the casting preferred you to be white.

Why would they do that? Avatar did not have any Caucasians. The theme is Asia. For f***s sake, the show won awards for its respectful depiction of a diverse cast. Its well known in the younger generations. What was the point?

And yes, there -was- a point to casting like this. Do any of you think that all this s**t is made up on the spot? This is a one hundred and fifty million dollar movie, and a huge investment by Paramount pictures. That casting call paper was written by one of Paramount's lawyers, and looked over by Shamwow and his pre-production team.

So, in a market where Asians get roughly 2% of all leading roles, 4 (plus 1 previous Avatar) major leading roles in a major motion picture initially went to white actors even though the characters, universe, and themes are all Asian. Not only that, but the main character is a white boy who has never acted before in his life.

They took a completely untested newbie over any even remotely trained Asian child actor. That is how little Hollywood and Shamwow gave a f***.

Oh, but surprise surprise:
"Extras: NEAR EASTERN, MIDDLE EASTERN, FAR EASTERN, ASIAN, MEDITERRANEAN & LATINO ETHNIC GROUPS….
No experience necessary – Martial Arts & Military Training a PLUS!

Come to our OPEN CASTING CALL, dress casually, OR in the traditional costume of your family’s ethnic background. We’ll take your photo and information"


The casting call for extras does NOT EVEN LIST CAUCASIAN. Ontop of that, it then has the arrogance to ask for the Extras to represent their culture in their dress. There were Chinese, Japanese, Middle Eastern, Latino, dark skinned kids all over this movie in the background, possibly quite a few who have already acted and received at least a little formal training, and many of which probably trying to get their foot into the door.

So, where does this, again, put us?

The only white people in this entire fictional world are the heroes. Even the world's previous hero is white.

"But they look like the characters"

To which I say that Kirk Lazarus looked black as well. The annoying guy from Twilight who played Sokka said this:

“I think it’s one of those things where I pull my hair up, shave the sides, and I definitely need a tan. It’s one of those things where, hopefully, the audience will suspend disbelief a little bit.”

A tan? A tan is going to make you look Inuit? I've mulled this quote around in my head for awhile, and the more I think about it the more the wording is annoying me. Who, in their right f***ing mind, would say that (as a white guy) to prepare for a role as a minority... he would get a tan.

It sounds like something Mel Gibson would say in an interview. What, if he was playing a Chinese character would he dip himself in yellow pain? Maybe his wording was just poor, but damn was it poor.

Ya know what?

"they cast the races properly, but the acting quality still sucks? "

If they had cast the races properly the acting may not of actually sucked. For example,

Paramount broadcast on The Last Airbender fan sites that it cast Korean American actor Isaac Jin Solstein, age 13. Despite their emphasis on this, casting fans are quick to point out that Solstein was cast as “Earthbending Boy”– a character so minor it does not even have a name. An experienced young martial artist and Asian American actor, Solstein could just as easily have played one of the main characters, such as Aang.

They had an entire Inuit tribe for filming. They had hundreds of extras for the other nations.

There was no excuse to cast the main characters as Caucasians.

None.



Quote:
I do notice the overlapping and can often recognize a specific voice actor, but I disagree with you that voice-acting is colorblind. If that were true, the VAs wouldn't bother imitating different stereotypical accents for characters of different races/nationalities.
For starters, women do the majority of voice acting for children in animation, even boys. Avatar, on the other hand, actually had younger kids voice younger characters in the show. Still, the person you imagine doing most voice acting probably looks nothing like you imagine; that is what they get paid to do: To be invisible. Its like being angry at a director when you find out the set isn't a real place.

Secondly, voice acting extends even into voicing things like... a plain wall. The simplicity of it is that the voice can be applied to anything in a scene.

Thirdly, I question what you consider "stereotypical", since you praise Mako as a voice actor and his voice is pretty distinctly Japanese. But, I'm going to guess you mean white people talking like non-white people since you used the word "imitating"?

You don't mind 3 white actors physically playing and speaking the role of Asians, but you draw the line at animated Asians being voiced by... voice actors?

This is like calling a movie racist because the sound editor isn't the same race as the sound he is editing. Voice actors are a behind the scenes role. Imitating other nationalities? How about imitating age? Gender? Maturity? ... Robots? Monsters?

The "physical" characters were multiracial. Some were not even human. Frankly, you wouldn't even know anything about the voice actor if you didn't pull the screen back. Chances are they are not even speaking in a way that even closely resembles their original voice. Actual physical acting, on the other hand, gives us a clear view of every aspect of a person. Sure, they can do a funny voice, but we can still see them.

And yes, some voice actors are paid to do a stereotypical accent. But, unless that is all they can do, they can flex that voice to do other things. Voice Actors are unique in the acting world in the sense that their talent doesn't rest with what they can do physically, but with the fact they exist to be a paint pallet for a director to use. For anything; From person to object.

It is an anonymous, colorblind form of acting. It is the wood board behind the camera that holds up the crafted set. The stock lights on a fiberglass building. While the board may be holding up a racist set, the board it just doing what its specifically built to do; its off camera and not meant to be viewed.

Basically what I'm saying is this:

If a character is being stereotypical, then the character itself is stereotypical. The voice actor, animator, concept artist, etc, however, are not. It would be more suiting to blame the director and writers for aiming the voice acting in that direction.

A gun cannot commit murder. Someone holding a gun, can.

Quote:
Consider this: in the Avatar cartoon, the main characters - Aang, Katara, Sokka and Zuko speak american english, while most of the background characters speak with stereotypical asian accents. This obviously doesn't bother either of us, even though it can be interpreted as discriminatory.
... Ummm... wut.

Just to test this, I skimmed through, literally, every episode of A:TLA for anything but American-like accents. Iroh is one of the few characters that has a non-, well, standard accent and that is primarily because the guy had and was well know for his Japanese accent. The -only- other occurrence of "stereotypical Asian" I found was a few lines from the Airbending flashbacks, and their accents were less pronounced than Mako's.

Other than, perhaps, 3 characters in the entire show... -everyone- has an English/American/Standard accent, and even those 3 don't even TOUCH what I would consider "stereotypical Asian".

I may be wrong, so if you've got any particular episodes and scenes you want me to look at then please list them off. My collection is only a few mouse clicks away.

Also... you just explained to me how improper casting was a problem. Mako is Asian. Sab Shimono, Clyde Kusatsu, James Hong, and the rest of the air tribe (the only tribe with a hint of Asian accent) are all played by Asian actors as well, with most of them having natural Asian accents. They also did voices for other characters, as well as having latino, hispanic, black, etc in their VAing cast.

So... yeah, not "all of the voice actors on that cartoon were white people/kids".

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Perhaps he should, but my point still stands - nobody made a fuss about that casting call. Nobody had anything bad to say about Michael Clarke Duncan's portrayal of the Kingpin either.
The original Kingpin was actually supposed to be black. At the time of creation, the editors thought that a black villain would be inappropriate. Michael Clarke Duncan was cast because nobody else of size was interested in the part. However, as with cases listed above, race was not an integral part of his character.

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule (MIB), however I think you may have missed my point:

Nobody had anything bad to say about a Race Lift.

That -is- the problem. While this is a rare case of the reverse, Race Lifting happens and only a small amount seem to give a damn. Not only that, but its yet again the white superhero fighting the colored bad guy. True, they chose him out of a small pool, but regardless of reason the effect is still there.

Lastly, I fail to see how Michael Clarke Duncan getting a pass in this one movie negates the fact that Asians get 2% of casting roles, Blacks get 13%, Latinos 6%, and Native Americans .3%.

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Even though this wasn't directed at me personally, I think it still deserves an answer. Where I live, race isn't a big issue. This isn't to say we don't have racists in Serbia - those pests, unfortunately, exist in every part of the world, but I haven't really noticed people caring about the color of someone's skin, or treating people badly because of it.
I don't mean to pry into a country I know very little about, but isn't, like, over 90% of your country the same ethnic group? I don't mean to insult the people living there, but just making a general observation that there may be less skin based racism in a country that, I assume, is overwhelmingly similar.

This is just me making a very ignorant observation, though, so feel free to correct me.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:59 AM   #70
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Why does everyone forget that Zuko's Voice actor from the show was Dante Basco a American Filipino?

I wish he would have played Zuko in the movie. (Yes I am aware he is now 34 but he is a dancer and doesn't look his age (see here)) along with the fact that he looks like Zuko and could pass for an Oriental person (Rufio in Hook) without being insulting towards Asian people.


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Old 07-09-2010, 01:21 PM   #71
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TA's argument just won at teh internetz, methinks.

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Old 07-09-2010, 01:27 PM   #72
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TL;DR (JFC!), so I wouldn't know.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:26 PM   #73
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Wow operation Mind-F... oh and by the way you do know that Avatar: the last airbender isn't set on Earth? therefore not Asia, and they're speaking English... and its a Film/cartoon.. and Crap?


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Old 07-09-2010, 08:42 PM   #74
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Quote:
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...and its a Film/cartoon
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

The issue with Asian actors being put out of the job by the oppressive white man is real.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:32 PM   #75
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Wow operation Mind-F... oh and by the way you do know that Avatar: the last airbender isn't set on Earth? therefore not Asia, and they're speaking English... and its a Film/cartoon.. and Crap?
Hey! No rational thought allowed!


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:05 AM   #76
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Wow operation Mind-F... oh and by the way you do know that Avatar: the last airbender isn't set on Earth? therefore not Asia, and they're speaking English... and its a Film/cartoon.. and Crap?
Hint: there were no blacks or asians in Lord of the Rings, for a logical reason.


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Old 07-10-2010, 12:24 AM   #77
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I don't understand why its such a big deal. Race is irrelevant. That, and the animated series was an American show.


Please feed the trolls. XD
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:00 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd View Post
Wow operation Mind-F... oh and by the way you do know that Avatar: the last airbender isn't set on Earth? therefore not Asia, and they're speaking English... and its a Film/cartoon.. and Crap?
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Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
Hey! No rational thought allowed!
I suppose the themes that Avatar: The Last Airbender is representing is made up too? After all, I've never heard of these so called "Asians" or their culture.

Also, there are other shows that have a similar setting. For example: Last Exile has heavy tones of germanic/european influence... no, not "the west"... we're talking 1900s type stuff, before the west. Last Exile used those influences and used them well and were pretty true to their source material... of course it was all set in space, but just because something is set in space doesn't make the influences any less relevance.



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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
Hint: there were no blacks or asians in Lord of the Rings, for a logical reason.
There are no black people in The Jetsons either XD


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Originally Posted by Arcesious View Post
I don't understand why its such a big deal. Race is irrelevant. That, and the animated series was an American show.
It is an issue... and it's a strange issue because people who aren't Caucasian can't see it yet the peoples of various "ethnic" no Caucasian backgrounds are sensitive to it. I wrote an article about how I found it strange why there is no way for a person to have dark coloured skin in Animal Crossing yet the characters were able to get darkened skins through tanning.

The article was posted up on gonintendo.com and the comments posted up there were VERY interesting... it seemed a rift of opinion had formed with the white Americans telling me to stop being a crybaby and this wasn't even an issue and we should stop talking about it... and some very few people who identified themselves as not being white who were like "yeah, i don't get why we can't choose our skin colour either"...

It's not that there is NO issue... it's that there are people who deny the issue for whatever reason.




...and no, just because I'm not Caucasian doesn't mean I'm one of those people who blames "the white man" for everything. That kind of thing doesn't work down here in Australia.

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Old 07-10-2010, 06:25 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynk Former View Post
I suppose the themes that Avatar: The Last Airbender is representing is made up too? After all, I've never heard of these so called "Asians" or their culture.
you've had me about this before, I cant remember why, but I remember it was a similar situation. I'm not being a racist generalizer or belittling your or anyones culture... its just in the UK, we say Asian when referring to people or situation on that continent, same way that people refer to Europeans regarding Europe. to quote someone else

"The term "Asia" is originally a concept exclusively of Western civilization. The peoples of ancient Asia (Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Persians, Arabs etc.) never conceived the idea of Asia, simply because they did not see themselves collectively. In their perspective, they were vastly varied civilizations, contrary to European belief"

and for the record, viewing peoples collectively, at least on my part, is not saying that they aren't vastly varied civilizations.

God I hate talking about this stuff


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Old 07-10-2010, 06:36 AM   #80
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@ adamqd: What you're saying is very true. To go back to my example of "Last Exile," despite it having strong germanic/european influences....it's a Japanese animation and the original spoken language for all of the dialogue is Japanese.

The influences are still present, strong and recognisable and the research that went into those cultures, whatever we may call them, were very well done. Some concessions were made, for example, having the voice actors speaking Japanese and not German or English, the root of the story and influence stayed true to the source material and cultures it was trying to represent.


Again, I agree that everything is subjective to whoever is viewing it... Japanese people don't call themselves "Japanese"... The voice actors in Avatar speak English and the production is American, but the references to the cultures these fictional universe portray are still very important.

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