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Old 08-08-2010, 03:20 PM   #1
Totenkopf
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Get your free crack pipes....lin Seattle

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/42462...xchange05.html


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Old 08-08-2010, 05:44 PM   #2
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I'm shocked, and yet in the back of my mind I have a little voice telling me that I'm not actually all that surprised.

Affirmation of how irrevocably ****ed up this world is, perhaps?


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Old 08-09-2010, 12:16 AM   #3
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Lol! Just when you thought you heard it all.

I like to see how they deal with cocaine next.


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Old 08-09-2010, 12:50 AM   #4
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Wow....ummm...not sure what to say here. I suppose I understand what they're trying to do...basically they're saying we know these people are going to use anyway so why shouldn't we help them try to avoid diseases, but I'm not sure I agree with supporting a neighborhood full of addicts. I would also question the legality of what their doing as I don't think it would be a stretch for the police to bring them in for possession of drug paraphernalia which yes, is a crime, in many places.


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Old 08-09-2010, 09:08 PM   #5
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I could see the needles... They helped prevent the spread of HIV. But pipes? Sheesh....


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Old 08-10-2010, 08:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommycat View Post
I could see the needles... They helped prevent the spread of HIV. But pipes? Sheesh....
Exactly. The needles I can somewhat tolerate, since addicts can give non-addicts AIDS. However there is absolutely no excuse to give them crack pipes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crack Pipe Distributor
We say this is our community, this is our neighborhood, and we should decide what we have at the table.
Oh really, the entire University District belongs to a tiny group of like-minded "former" (sure...) addicts, and not, say, the general population of the district? These people seem to assume that everyone in the U district also feel that attracting the drug addicts from across the city is a totally good thing.

For the addicts, it's tremendously convenient: College students are ripe targets for mugging, so there's the money for the drugs themselves, and then walk a block or so for your free pipe.



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Old 08-10-2010, 08:37 PM   #7
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^^^Get out your billy clubs.


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Old 08-11-2010, 02:01 AM   #8
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Did any of you actually read the article or are you just spouting stuff? Because the article explains it pretty well.

And it's not like if you don't give them crack pipes they'll just stop.

Last edited by Nedak; 08-11-2010 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedak View Post
Did any of you actually read the article or are you just spouting stuff? Because the article explains it pretty well.

And it's not like if you don't give them crack pipes they'll just stop.
I'm with Nedak, I don't really see the issue, speaking as someone who has friends who have (and some are) addicted to Heroin, they will use it regardless of safety, at least this "Needle Exchange" makes what is already a very dangerous drug a little bit safer...



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Old 08-11-2010, 09:08 AM   #10
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Sorry...can't go with ya on this one. First, all of it is illegal, the using, the distribution of pipes and needles etc... Second, if these people really cared about these addicts they would be better served getting them medical and professional help rather than feeding their habit.

As I said before I understand what their doing, but after some thinking I don't agree with it. Encouraging their habit is not the way to help them regardless of intentions.


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Old 08-11-2010, 09:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedak View Post
Did any of you actually read the article or are you just spouting stuff? Because the article explains it pretty well.

And it's not like if you don't give them crack pipes they'll just stop.
Yes, and crack pipes while they MIGHT cause a spread of Hep A and give them burns, is not really solving anything. I understand their needle exchange. I agree with that. I even said so. But giving them a pipe of their own won't stop them from sharing pipes when Zippo has a rock and Fleece doesn't.


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Old 08-11-2010, 09:55 AM   #12
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What Nedak said.

The only thing I don't really understand is why they would feel the need to give out crack pipes - since you can pretty much make one yourself in 30 seconds. A more interesting question is, what kind of a company makes pipes specifically for smoking crack? I had no idea they had a model for that

Show spoiler


Last edited by Pho3nix; 08-11-2010 at 03:22 PM. Reason: Added Teracracktyl
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:49 AM   #13
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It is nonprofit charitable organization acting in what they believe is best for interest of their community. They are obeying the laws of their state legislator set forth. They are not a government entity and as such don’t need to prescribe to the mortality set forth by the community. If you disagree, then do not donate to their cause. End of story.

Don’t know anything about illegal drug use beyond what it has done to friends and family member. Same goes for HIV. However, I do know enough that I can agree with Michael Hanrahan when he said it is “theoretically plausible” that someone cutting their lip on a glass pipe could spread HIV. Is it likely probably not, but possible nevertheless.

Do I support the moral choices that lead people to abuse their bodies in such a way, no. However, I do support those that seek to lessen others suffering and I also support those who attempt save taxpayers money by preventing the spread of diseases, especially those that would be a drain on society.


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Old 08-11-2010, 01:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediAthos View Post
Sorry...can't go with ya on this one. First, all of it is illegal, the using, the distribution of pipes and needles etc...
What are you talking about? It's not illegal to distribute pipes OR needles.

Quote:
Second, if these people really cared about these addicts they would be better served getting them medical and professional help rather than feeding their habit.
Do you have any idea how much money that would cost? And even then in most cases it would be for nothing. An addict must chose THEMSELVES to get sober, nobody can make them.

Quote:
As I said before I understand what their doing, but after some thinking I don't agree with it. Encouraging their habit is not the way to help them regardless of intentions.
You're right. So instead lets let them contract diseases from crack pipes. I'm sure they'll stop using then, right?

Come on man. These people don't have the Flu, they're deathly ill with a disease that only they can stop.

I live in Seattle, by the way...so I'm fully aware of how big of an issue crack is in the city.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommycat View Post
Yes, and crack pipes while they MIGHT cause a spread of Hep A and give them burns, is not really solving anything. I understand their needle exchange. I agree with that. I even said so. But giving them a pipe of their own won't stop them from sharing pipes when Zippo has a rock and Fleece doesn't.
It's not even much abouts sharing if you read the article dude. If Zippo has the rock and Fleece shares with Zippo, if Zippo has a clean crack pipe then it's an even less chance that both of them will get anything.

Also, why did you chose the names Zippo and Fleece? Are these the names of people you picture smoking crack? Or maybe Zippo and Fleece are actually German Shepards looking to score some crack?

Lmao.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:00 PM   #15
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With all do respect with some of the opinions being made here, I really don't think some of you see the main failure in this idea. It does not solve the main problem, but actually endorses it, which is the abuse of these drugs.


Even if what they are doing prevents the spread of diseases, and okay I'll give them that, it does not take away from the main fact that it really supports drug abuse. I mean, you might as well give them the damn drugs as well. Meanwhile, it's a slap in the face to authorities who have been trying to eliminate the problems of drug use and remove drugs off the streets since the beginning, plane and simple.


Look! Humanitarianism is all good and well when it's applied properly, but not with the counter measures of what they're doing. So even with their methods of trying to prevent the spread diseases, it really defeats the main purpose of stopping drug abuse and getting the scourge of it off the streets.

And they're clearly sending the drug abusers the wrong message when they are giving away these items, especially with the crack pipes and overdose prevention drugs, it's like they're saying: (Hey! It's okay buddy. Smoke it and shoot it up all you want. We just want you to abuse your drugs safely. But if you would, please try and get clean someday...okay. )

Aaaah..NO! I don't think so....nnnnnnot gonna work!


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Old 08-11-2010, 03:08 PM   #16
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Spoiler: The War on Drugs doesn't work, and it never will. People will never stop using drugs, It's a part of our history, culture and even heritage in some cases.

I wouldn't be surprised if the number of heroin addicts dropped significantly if they started prescribing it, and this doesn't just apply to the U.S - but every country. And no, I'm not saying It's going to solve the issue entirely, but I just don't believe the current 'model' is working.


Last edited by Pho3nix; 08-11-2010 at 03:13 PM. Reason: Added paragraph.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purifier View Post
With all do respect with some of the opinions being made here, I really don't think some of you see the main failure in this idea. It does not solve the main problem, but actually endorses it, which is the abuse of these drugs.
So what?

Do you mean if I go up to these people and tell them I do not approve and that I very disappointed in them they will stop?

Not going to happen. Ive been a part of interventions in the past. People cried, people vented, people hugged, and in the end it all meant nothing until the person with the problem decides they want help. All in all trying to help someone quit that does not want to quit is a waste of everyones time.

At least these people are trying to keep the drug abusers alive long enough for them to come to their senses and seek help. Besides protecting someone from themselves is not an endorsement of that behavior.


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Old 08-11-2010, 07:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by purifier View Post
With all do respect with some of the opinions being made here, I really don't think some of you see the main failure in this idea. It does not solve the main problem, but actually endorses it, which is the abuse of these drugs.
I already covered this.


Quote:
Even if what they are doing prevents the spread of diseases, and okay I'll give them that, it does not take away from the main fact that it really supports drug abuse. I mean, you might as well give them the damn drugs as well. Meanwhile, it's a slap in the face to authorities who have been trying to eliminate the problems of drug use and remove drugs off the streets since the beginning, plane and simple.
Too bad the drug war doesn't work...blame your politicians for the drug problem, not the users.
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedak View Post
Too bad the drug war doesn't work...blame your politicians for the drug problem, not the users.
6 words: No drug users, no drug problem.

However, I also see no reason to enable crackheads to continue with their habits. I chalk it up to misplaced compassion for miscreants. It's one thing to actually try to intervene and put someone in a detox program, another to provide them w/the paraphenalia to continue their slide. If you're going to cite potential savings for problems that might only exist if the status quo continues, I'd say that letting them die would also save a lot of money. Point being that potential $$ saved is not sufficient argument for allowing a person to commit slow suicide b/c they don't feel up to quitting just yet. Given that many crackheads are usually petty thieves, perhaps the govt should lock them up much as the mentally incompetent often are in order to protect the rest of society and even them from themselves as well.


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Old 08-11-2010, 11:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pho3nix View Post
Spoiler: The War on Drugs doesn't work, and it never will. People will never stop using drugs, It's a part of our history, culture and even heritage in some cases.

I wouldn't be surprised if the number of heroin addicts dropped significantly if they started prescribing it, and this doesn't just apply to the U.S - but every country. And no, I'm not saying It's going to solve the issue entirely, but I just don't believe the current 'model' is working.
Sure, I can see that...the "War on Drugs" is not THE total solution to eliminating all drug abuse, but I've also seen these tatics save some lives and prevent some from eventual overdose or being killed over drugs deals gone wrong. And it's not perfect. So yes, they are obviously going to have to revise it at some point, there is definitly some room for improvement.

Of course that is, if the powers that be, under the current administration want to really help reduce the addictions of drug abuse. But still, what these individuals in the above article are doing, is only adding fuel to the fire. And that really doesn't help the situation at all.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
So what?

Do you mean if I go up to these people and tell them I do not approve and that I very disappointed in them they will stop?

Not going to happen. Ive been a part of interventions in the past. People cried, people vented, people hugged, and in the end it all meant nothing until the person with the problem decides they want help. All in all trying to help someone quit that does not want to quit is a waste of everyones time.

At least these people are trying to keep the drug abusers alive long enough for them to come to their senses and seek help. Besides protecting someone from themselves is not an endorsement of that behavior.
Mimartin your kidding me..right? How is this NOT, what this group is doing, the endorsement of drug abuse? They might as well throw in a couple of bags of crack while they're at it too. There's no logic in that, it just makes it easier for them and further fuels their drug addictions. Also, they're not really helping drug abusers "come to their senses" by giving them paraphernalia. What that really does is make the suggestion, psychologically, that it's okay to do drugs and they need to use fresh needles/new crack pipes instead. And they're not totally protecting the drug users from themselves either, with the
exception of diseases of course, but what they are doing is adding to the downward spiral in the misery of abusing herion and crack.


And no Mimartin...I don't think going up to them an telling them that I don't approve and that I'm disappointed and whatever else I say, is going make them stop. Even if the truthful reality of it slapped them in the face, they'd probably still do it anyway. And probably because they really think they're helping drug abusers overall and being good samaritans about it.



And yeah, I know what your saying and where you are coming from about interventions Mimartin...I've been a part of interventions too. Rarely have I ever seen any good come from interventions either, you throw your hands in the air and say: (Oh why do I even try), but you still need to try regardless; you never know..you just might actually reach somebody at least once. And that could make all the difference in that person's life. But unlike what these individuals are doing in Seattle, when it comes to interventions, you sure in the hell don't see people in interventions give drug abusers some paraphernalia while trying to stop their drug abuse...do you?

And how would that go if they did do that btw, maybe something like this: (Hey man, seriously, you gotta stop killing yourself with the abuse of drugs dude. Because we really care about you. But here! Here are some needles and a crack pipe in case you need them. But still, we really care about you so stop using drugs dude.) Most likely that person is gonna say: (Yeeeeep....whatever you say man. Bye!) And he or she goes right out the door and on there marry little way to their local drug dealer, skipping along and singing: (I got me some neeeeedleees, I got me some neeeeedleees....gonna shoot it up now, YEAH, gonna shoot up it now, OH YEAH!)

You want to talk about a wasit of everybody's time, giving them paraphernalia like that is really a waist of everybody's time. Defeats the purpose.

Hell! Come to think of it, that would be like me telling my teenage daughter: (Okay, I want you to abstain from sexual intercourse because you really don't know what the hell your doing right now. But here's some condoms just in case, so you don't get a HIV or something. BTW, stop at the drug store sometime and get yourself some birth control pills as well. Oh wait! Here!...I'll throw in some mints too. But no sexual intercourse...understand?)

Mixed messages Mimartin...they're psychologically sending mixed messages, defeating the main purpose of trying to reduce drug addiction, and like I mentioned to Pho3nix...it's adding fuel to the fire more than anything. It doesn't help.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedak View Post
I already covered this.
I'm a little confused Nedak. Where and how did you exactly cover......"I really don't think some of you see the main failure in this idea. It does not solve the main problem, but actually endorses it, which is the abuse of these drugs."

So enlighten me Nedak, where and how?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedak View Post
Too bad the drug war doesn't work...blame your politicians for the drug problem, not the users.
Yeah, I DO....especially under the current administration. Some of the politicians are to blame as far as that's concern. I'm not making an argument against that Nedak, all I'm telling you is...that giving drug abusers paraphernalia supports there addiction, and it doesn't really help the matter. It hinders those who are really trying to reduce the misery and the afflictions of drug abuse within the population.


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Old 08-12-2010, 12:58 AM   #21
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Again I'll write the same question. So what?

Are you actually saying because someone gives me a pipe I'm more likely to smoke crack?

They are exchanging used pipes for new ones. The people already have the means to do the drugs and the drugs, all they are attempting to do is make it a little safer. Like I wrote before, if you don't like it then don't donate to their cause. Personally I believe this make a little more sense than "Just say no." Of course "just say no" made no sense whatsoever.


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Old 08-12-2010, 01:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
6 words: No drug users, no drug problem.

However, I also see no reason to enable crackheads to continue with their habits. I chalk it up to misplaced compassion for miscreants. It's one thing to actually try to intervene and put someone in a detox program, another to provide them w/the paraphenalia to continue their slide. If you're going to cite potential savings for problems that might only exist if the status quo continues, I'd say that letting them die would also save a lot of money. Point being that potential $$ saved is not sufficient argument for allowing a person to commit slow suicide b/c they don't feel up to quitting just yet. Given that many crackheads are usually petty thieves, perhaps the govt should lock them up much as the mentally incompetent often are in order to protect the rest of society and even them from themselves as well.
It is impossible to eliminate drug usage.

I refuse to comment on the rest of this post because it's full of so much closed-minded -snip- and lack of compassion it makes me sick.

I'm sure you're very happy with the -snip- perception you have of yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by purifier View Post
I'm a little confused Nedak. Where and how did you exactly cover......"I really don't think some of you see the main failure in this idea. It does not solve the main problem, but actually endorses it, which is the abuse of these drugs."

So enlighten me Nedak, where and how?
I covered as to why that statement is invalid and how it doesn't actually endorse it.

It's up to you to go and find it.




Quote:
Yeah, I DO....especially under the current administration. Some of the politicians are to blame as far as that's concern. I'm not making an argument against that Nedak, all I'm telling you is...that giving drug abusers paraphernalia supports there addiction, and it doesn't really help the matter. It hinders those who are really trying to reduce the misery and the afflictions of drug abuse within the population.
As a man who has been to AA meetings, who has watched family members go through addictions, I can honestly say that it doesn't matter if you give them crack pipes or not. They're going to do it anyways. And as a rational human being that understands that these people are sick, not criminals, I wholeheartedly believe in giving these 'paraphernalia' out. A lot of these drug users/drunks will continue to use even if their drug makes it so they have no limbs...they will STILL find a way to get their fix. Killing them, isn't the solution because there will always be drug users as long as there are drugs (not to mention how many resources that would waste and the obvious moral consequences).

If one crack user is kept safe while using and eventually he decides to get sober....I call it a success.

Moderator note [08-12-2010 02:25 PM]

Easy with inflammatory remarks, I understand this can be an emotional topic and how you can perceive others as being uncaring or unknowledgeable, but please dont resort to name calling to make your point. ~ mimartin


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Old 08-12-2010, 03:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedak View Post
It is impossible to eliminate drug usage.
You obviously missed the point. Was playing off your comment that the problem was only the politicians and not the drug users. It's unlikely we'll ever be rid of either.

Quote:
I refuse to comment on the rest of this post because it's full of so much closed-minded -snip- and lack of compassion it makes me sick. I'm sure you're very happy with the -snip- perception you have of yourself.
It's not a lack of compassion to say that these people would be better off having others keep them away from the drugs (as much as humanly possible) so that they can clean up their lives. Mixed messages like giving people paraphenalia so they can continue their habit while decrying said habit as destructive does nothing to solve their problem. Thinking it makes one compassionate to do so is merely engaging in self-delusions, not genuine open-mindedness. We can both agree, w/o name calling, that crackheads need help. I'm not talking about locking them up w/violent criminals, but forcing them to undergo drug rehab and make restitution for any crimes they may have committed to support their habit is not inhumane.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

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Old 08-12-2010, 03:41 PM   #24
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let them burn their lips off and spread diseases the communities they affect deserve it for being safe havens for crackheads



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Old 08-13-2010, 12:04 AM   #25
Liverandbacon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedak View Post
And as a rational human being that understands that these people are sick, not criminals
I think there's an important difference: The vast majority of people who get sick don't do it on purpose; the vast majority of drug addicts start taking drugs of their own accord, knowing the illegality and other problems (of course there are exceptions where drugs are forced on people, but these are far from the majority of cases).

However, I still believe they deserve to be treated humanely. Where we differ is what we consider humane. You believe that they will do drugs no matter what, so we might as well make the drugs as safe as possible and hope that they will quit of their own accord (at least this is what I gathered from your posts, correct me if I misinterpreted you). I know that it is possible to prevent them from using drugs if you put them somewhere where they cannot have access to them. Ideally, this would not be prison, unless of course the addict committed a crime other than drug use (assault, robbery, etc.). It would be more similar to a mental institution.

From where I see it, this would be far more humane than letting them spiral further downward into a wasted life.



--Too Dumb to Quit--
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Old 08-13-2010, 01:09 AM   #26
mimartin
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I don’t really think them quitting on their own is what Nedak is saying. If I’ve read his posts correctly; I believe he is implying that you cannot force someone to quit. All you can do is try to keep them alive long enough until they decide they want to quit. Then you can help with drug rehab. In my experience with family members that was the way it was. We tried the interventions, put him in rehab (all that did was waste a lot of his parent’s money; he was high again within 3 weeks of getting out). We tried the incarceration (all that did was teach him to use different drugs and made it easier for him to find drugs). He finally quit, but only when he decided he wanted to quit and that was only after he forced his parents into bankruptcy because of the cost to put him into rehab 7 times.

A small glass pipe is a little cheaper than wasting money on imprisonment or drug rehab when all you can really do until they decide they want your help, is try your best to keep them alive.


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Old 08-13-2010, 01:09 AM   #27
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Quote:
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Also, why did you chose the names Zippo and Fleece? Are these the names of people you picture smoking crack? Or maybe Zippo and Fleece are actually German Shepards looking to score some crack?
Those are the street names of two crack addicts that I know.


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