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Old 07-30-2010, 08:50 AM   #41
Snugglecakes
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It is indeed fantastic, and I love it. It's just that it could've been better, at no additional cost, if they had someone there who knew the game as well as we do. I am merely lamenting that fact. Wasted opportunity. Things like using the wrong MIDI instruments are still pretty poor, you have to admit, and the patch was for things that really should not have been released in that state in the first place so I don't see why LucasArts deserves applause for it. I've never had applause for fixing a website that was broken when I delivered it.

Don't get me wrong I do love what they've done, and I believe we do all share the same opinion of the SE, except elTee, who is very valuable to this community but seems to see this SE through rose-tinted glasses. There is stuff wrong with it that shouldn't be wrong with it, that's a simple fact.

Doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it, but LucasArts' idea of quality control is useless and certain parts will irritate me until they are fixed, if ever. This was never a problem with the classic LucasArts titles. In my mind, if you're going to remake a classic game, you need to include all the things that made it great in the first place, including the polished quality of MI2. Fail.

If they had the time to include audio commentary and concept art, none of which is essential, then they had time to get basics right, which is.

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Old 07-30-2010, 09:28 AM   #42
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It is indeed fantastic, and I love it. It's just that it could've been better, at no additional cost, if they had someone there who knew the game as well as we do. I am merely lamenting that fact. Wasted opportunity. Things like using the wrong MIDI instruments are still pretty poor, you have to admit, and the patch was for things that really should not have been released in that state in the first place so I don't see why LucasArts deserves applause for it. I've never had applause for fixing a website that was broken when I delivered it.

Don't get me wrong I do love what they've done, and I believe we do all share the same opinion of the SE, except elTee, who is very valuable to this community but seems to see this SE through rose-tinted glasses. There is stuff wrong with it that shouldn't be wrong with it, that's a simple fact.

Doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it, but LucasArts' idea of quality control is useless and certain parts will irritate me until they are fixed, if ever. This was never a problem with the classic LucasArts titles. In my mind, if you're going to remake a classic game, you need to include all the things that made it great in the first place, including the polished quality of MI2. Fail.

If they had the time to include audio commentary and concept art, none of which is essential, then they had time to get basics right, which is.
Rose-tinted glasses? As in, overly nostalgic? That sounds like everyone except me...

The point is, I'm treating this thing for what it is: an attempt by LucasArts to bring the game to a new generation of fans. When you compare it to the first SE, and take into account that they only had a year to make it in, then I think they've done a really excellent job. Because I'm not getting hung up on irrelevant details; some of you don't seem to be able to see the wood for the trees here. What's most important is the atmosphere, and they've got that exactly right in my opinion. That is far harder to achieve than anything else, and I'm glad they spent their development time on it.

There's much more to like here than there is to dislike, I'm utterly convinced of it. And I'm not the only one. I'm just trying to be rational about it.


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Old 07-30-2010, 09:47 AM   #43
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Sorry elTee if I hit a nerve, didn't mean to. I just found your review quite... happy... compared to the older mojo reviews which were quite honest!

Like I said, yes I love the SE, but I'm lamenting what should've been. That's all. And anyone who spends money on anything is entitled to give their opinion on it. Like you said, the atmosphere IS great, that's the most important thing. To me, a huge part of my love for the originals comes from the exceptional quality they had. This quality seems like a thing of the past for LucasArts and it makes me sad. I'm a sucker for painstaking attention to detail, and over the years I've come to expect just that from LucasArts. The new team has a long way to go still.

At the end of the day, do I want my 10 bucks back? Of course not! But it should be better than it is.
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:01 AM   #44
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You've not hit a nerve, I think this is an important debate - there's clearly a big split here between people who are satisfied with the SE, and people who think it doesn't live up to the original.

The way it breaks down to me is: yes, it could have been better. Most things could be! But it could have been so much worse that it doesn't even bear thinking about. Look at the first SE

Fundamentally, LucasArts exceeded my expectations with the game - which is more of a sad commentary on what I'd come to expect from LucasArts more than anything else, but nevertheless, it was better than I was expecting it to be, and better than it actually needed to be (in the eyes of LucasArts.) So I am happy, and I the review tried to project the enthusiasm and relief that I felt outwards. I really am sure that if I analysed the original in the same way that some people have analysed the SE, I would find a whole load of 'problems' with it - but it's just lodged in all of our memories as the perfect game. In the same way that I don't want to corrupt that memory, I don't particularly want to lessen my own enjoyment of the SE.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I am happy to disagree with people because we're all on the same side, at the end of the day


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Old 07-30-2010, 10:52 AM   #45
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Although I understand that there are many irritating problems with the SE that should not be there, I also must say I understand where elTee is coming from. Generally put, it was a good game. And it gave youngins like me a chance to really play the game at all, which is invaluble (it was hard to hang around here when I knew only CMI and EMI; the SE's and Tales really helped out). The fundamentals were all there; I was able to see past the bone song fiasco and overly-fast timed puzzles and still call it the best game I've played in years. If these had been fixed? Well, then it'd have been the best game I'd played in a decade.


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Old 07-30-2010, 11:10 AM   #46
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Is there actually someone here who's disappointed with the SE? Not talking about the first one, obviously.

To me it feels like everyone agrees it was pretty great. Everyone seems to agree that there were some issues also. I think the only rift here is that the issues bother some people more than others. These things didn't bother me that much when playing through the game and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's just better to let Lucasarts know about them so they can improve.

Maybe it would be more effective if I just went to their Facebook page. The problem is that Mojo rocks and the Facebook doesn't. I guess the "worst" problems have now been fixed, though.


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Old 07-30-2010, 11:45 AM   #47
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Now that the unforgivable offences have been fixed in the second SE (like the removal of the intro from classic), I'm not that bothered by most other small problems it has. I think it's a really good remake. Though like has been said before, it should have been fixed from the day of the release. It's a missed opertunity.

And moaning is indeed important. If you strive for perfection, you may never actually achieve it, but things get improved along the way.

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Old 07-30-2010, 12:30 PM   #48
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Is there actually someone here who's disappointed with the SE? Not talking about the first one, obviously.
Not here.
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:37 PM   #49
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Jeopando is right. We shouldn't feel like we're curmudgeons or picky or cynical because some of us choose to invest a little energy in talking about what could be better. Sure, it's am embarrassment of riches. Sure, even 3 years ago this project would have been unthinkable. I am jumping for joy at the idea that they actually did this. Still there are areas for improvement and some of them are things that could be improved without too much work, so they are well worth talking about - after all, many of those things have indeed been fixed in this latest patch.

What I do NOT agree with is thinking you know so much that you can attribute every flaw to some fundamental failing at LucasArts. It's never that simple. Your special edition not being perfect cannot simply be attributed to LucasArts being bad at what they do. It can be attributed to a handful of genuine mistakes, compromises made due to deadlines that almost all developers have to deal with and your own idealised expectations not being met. Some people here are desperate to maintain this 'LucasArts are bad' narrative and while I can understand their reasons, weaving the MI2 flaws into this narrative simply ain't working for me.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:42 PM   #50
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What I do NOT agree with is thinking you know so much that you can attribute every flaw to some fundamental failing at LucasArts. It's never that simple. Your special edition not being perfect cannot simply be attributed to LucasArts being bad at what they do. It can be attributed to a handful of genuine mistakes, compromises made due to deadlines that almost all developers have to deal with and your own idealised expectations not being met. Some people here are desperate to maintain this 'LucasArts are bad' narrative and while I can understand their reasons, weaving the MI2 flaws into this narrative simply ain't working for me.
Yeah, I think this attitude informs part of my reaction to the complaints, in a way. I've seen enough from LucasArts over the last ten years or so to know when they're being 'bad' and when they're not, and this time, they're really not. This is the best we've got from them in a very long time.

I encourage everyone to speak their mind freely, whether they're happy or extremely upset about the SE, but for me, my enjoyment of the game was not harmed in the slightest by the issues that have been raised in this thread. It's not a case of 'ignorance is bliss' or even being some kind of LucasArts apologist, I'm just genuinely extremely satisfied


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Old 07-30-2010, 03:40 PM   #51
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Glad they fixed the timing puzzles more than anything. It seems like that would hurt new players to the series the most who don't know what to do or how to solve the puzzle. Hopefully the patch will come to PSN, but honestly I probably won't play it through again even if so. Nice to know it would be fixed though.

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Remember all the art was outsourced. They probably can't get Korea to do anymore.
It was Singapore, but yeah, they probably can't.

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For people who are obsessed with the original version, they can just play it on ScummVM...
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Yes, because there's no such thing as deadlines.
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Its an almost ridiculous embarrassment of riches, a fanboy's dream and more than anyone would have thought possible a few years ago. And yet still we moan. Crazy.
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There's much more to like here than there is to dislike, I'm utterly convinced of it. And I'm not the only one. I'm just trying to be rational about it.
So do you guys get this defensive every time? I mean this is a thread about fixes. Discussion of lack of said fixes and want for more fixes is bound to happen. No one seemed to be assuming deadlines don't exist. I'm not even sure if anyone here (my own bitter self included) even rallied against this remake with full wanton dislike in any thread like the first one. There's just some hangups that people are talking about it seems to me.

Even if you can go play the old one, maybe some people still want to play the new version with the new music cues all intact and working, an updated intro with the new graphics, classic mode completely intact etc... Not that I'm at all disgusted with this new SE by far, but there's many other things I can think that fit a fanboy's dream in all honestly. Had all acted uniformly grateful or no one complained on the Facebook, you probably wouldn't even be getting these fixes. Either way, the Mojo forums is a great place to talk about such things.

AKA what Jeopando said and SurplusGamer backed up.

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And moaning is indeed important. If you strive for perfection, you may never actually achieve it, but things get improved along the way.
I find this is a good way of thinking if you create something or other and are always trying to find ways to get better. I guess this doesn't have much to do with a thread about a Steam Update, but I agree very much so.

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Old 07-30-2010, 04:34 PM   #52
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LucasArts made a patch to address mistakes, and they've released it now. This suggests to me that, whatever the case, they're finished with MI2SE. Leaving the intro out, for example, was not a mistake but a choice - whatever the reason may be.

I don't think we're being defensive about the errors, it just makes me sad that the majority of posts on this forum regarding the game are about the things that people didn't like, rather than the things that they did. If I worked at LucasArts and I came to the Mojo forums, I'd feel underappreciated, basically, which is a major shame because they've taken several enormous strides in an effort to please people like us.

I'll duck out of this thread anyway, I'm not really helping matters. We can agree to disagree, no hard feelings of course


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Old 07-30-2010, 04:42 PM   #53
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They just ran out of time, but the intro was halfway done, so they said "cut it."
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:49 PM   #54
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I don't think we're being defensive about the errors, it just makes me sad that the majority of posts on this forum regarding the game are about the things that people didn't like, rather than the things that they did. If I worked at LucasArts and I came to the Mojo forums, I'd feel underappreciated, basically, which is a major shame because they've taken several enormous strides in an effort to please people like us.
Well, I think a lot of that just comes with remake territory, just the want to compare. People tend to nerd out on differences between ports as it is already, so when a remake comes along a lot of scrutiny will happen. Just seeing the long and exhausting "changes" lists that get uploaded to certain remade games on GameFAQs makes me think it's become a bizarre gaming pastime.

I always felt like many here sort of started off bitter because of first remake, but instead most of the users here have ended up overall happy so far. I certainly had a very pleasant experience.

LucasArts did do better than Double Fine who still has not released an essential fix for Brutal Legend on PS3, and instead of figuring out some covert way of getting it to us, they just blame EA all day on the Action forums.

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They just ran out of time, but the intro was halfway done, so they said "cut it."
Yeah, I would still love for them to redraw the art for the intro credits sequence, but I guess the intro is not that essential to be remade. It's just important that it's in there one way or another, I think.
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:59 PM   #55
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The monkeys were done. Only Guybrush and the map art weren't finished.
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:06 PM   #56
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The monkeys were done. Only Guybrush and the map art weren't finished.
I don't think that was because the intro was half-way done and they shelved it. Not even all of the money art was finished (as far as I know, there was no backflip animation done in the remake style for instance).

What was done for the monkeys was for the LucasArts logo in the console releases. I doubt there was more to it than that.

I'm now 100% happy with the remake after this update. My biggest complaints were the timing issues and the bone song. With those fixed (and the classic version intro, and to a lesser extent, the outro being available) I'm quite satisfied.

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Old 07-30-2010, 08:12 PM   #57
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Seriously, any flaw aside, Dom's Hamill impression made it all worthwhile.

And yes that's why I haven't contributed to this thread; that made it all good for me. :~


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Old 07-30-2010, 08:47 PM   #58
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Not even all of the money art was finished (as far as I know, there was no backflip animation done in the remake style for instance).

What was done for the monkeys was for the LucasArts logo in the console releases. I doubt there was more to it than that.
What's this then? There are 10 of these sprite sheets with ALL of the monkey animations in the game.
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:57 PM   #59
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Seriously, any flaw aside, Dom's Hamill impression made it all worthwhile.
Haha, my thoughts exactly.


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Old 07-30-2010, 10:49 PM   #60
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Haha, my thoughts exactly.
Glad somebody else saw that. That was a spot on impression!


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Old 07-30-2010, 11:43 PM   #61
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Glad somebody else saw that. That was a spot on impression!
It was! I was really impressed. It could have so easily been corny or lame, but he did it perfectly.


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Old 07-31-2010, 05:01 AM   #62
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Yes I agree aswel, that was really well done.

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Old 08-19-2010, 10:07 AM   #63
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Question

I was curious if anyone knows when (or if) the PS3 and 360 versions are getting title updates? I feel like I've searched around a bit and can't seem to find any other information.

I've been holding off on playing the game on the consoles in case there's a patch in the works - mostly for the iMuse fixes.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:58 AM   #64
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The fact that the Xbox version hasn't been patched for iMuse is ridiculous. The fact that only the Steam version has been patched at all is even more ridiculous.

But this is LucasArts we're talking about. I'm surprised that other people are surprised about the latest developments over there. They got a lot of praise recently for what really only amounts to a couple of remakes and a budget puzzle game.

I wouldn't hold my breath for a patch. My version isn't patched yet either. Hell will freeze over first.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:18 PM   #65
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I get the feeling that patches exist for those versions but that it's harder to get them actually released through PSN and XBLA, as in more hoops to jump through.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 08-19-2010, 05:57 PM   #66
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It's easy for the PS3, eventually. But Microsoft only allows one free update and then anymore after that costs the developer money. Maybe they just want to get it right the first time?


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