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Old 11-03-2010, 05:53 PM   #41
PR-0927
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What I don't understand is how does this upsets people? Why do you think he releases and re-releases the movies (now in 3D)? Because people want it, and are willing to pay for it. Is he to blame? It's as I said before, why do people complaint about George milking the cash cow if people like it's milk? People have different tastes, all we have to do is to deal with it.

People have a problem with it because it often results in him creating new things of poor quality or reducing the quality of existing things, in order to maximize profit on potential toy and paraphernalia sales.

In fact, his obsession with toy sales is one of the primary reasons the movies started decreasing in quality after ESB (although I personally loved RotJ). He found he was making more money on toys than the movies, and decided to focus on movies with easily-exploitable characters/vehicles for toys, rather than a solid story. This was the problem with the PT and all this Clone Wars nonsense. Low-quality goods.

As someone above commented - it's about diminishing returns as well.

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Old 11-03-2010, 06:16 PM   #42
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People have a problem with it because it often results in him creating new things of poor quality or reducing the quality of existing things, in order to maximize profit on potential toy and paraphernalia sales.
Are you saying that a movie with a good story doesn't sell as much toys as a movie with a poor story? And who defines quality?

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In fact, his obsession with toy sales is one of the primary reasons the movies started decreasing in quality after ESB (although I personally loved RotJ). He found he was making more money on toys than the movies, and decided to focus on movies with easily-exploitable characters/vehicles for toys, rather than a solid story.
No. "movies with easily-exploitable characters/vehicles for toys" can be applied to any Star Wars movie. That's not a good excuse. The story of the prequels could never have the same feeling as the OT, no matter how good it was done. The story hasn't the same formula, since it's not about a hero and his companions (story that brings a closer proximity to the audience).

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This was the problem with the PT and all this Clone Wars nonsense. Low-quality goods.
Low-quality is subjective. The OT is not without it's faults, and the PT has it's virtues. As for the "Clone Wars nonsense", have you seen the series at all? How much they've progressed ever since the theatrical movie?



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Old 11-03-2010, 07:44 PM   #43
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I'm going to repeat myself. The Mandalorians have been made... PACIFISTS.


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Old 11-03-2010, 08:05 PM   #44
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I'm going to repeat myself. The Mandalorians have been made... PACIFISTS.
During a certain period. So what?



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Old 11-03-2010, 08:07 PM   #45
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Are you saying that a movie with a good story doesn't sell as much toys as a movie with a poor story? And who defines quality?

Not necessarily, but a focus on toy-production will always help. Read up on Gary Kurtz's comments on all this. It brings an interesting perspective. George Lucas made it a profit-loss situation more than anything, which is deeply saddening.

Quality is defined by, for SW, the classic SW fans, who loved SW before the PT, IMO. It's subjective, but there is objectivity in it as well. OT definitely trumped PT in quality of story and character connection.

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No. "movies with easily-exploitable characters/vehicles for toys" can be applied to any Star Wars movie. That's not a good excuse. The story of the prequels could never have the same feeling as the OT, no matter how good it was done. The story hasn't the same formula, since it's not about a hero and his companions (story that brings a closer proximity to the audience).

I again point to Gary Kurtz. And saying that the PT "could never have the same feeling as the OT" is REALLY a what-if scenario - no one can adequately discern this. Your statement is unnecessarily definitive.

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Low-quality is subjective. The OT is not without it's faults, and the PT has it's virtues. As for the "Clone Wars nonsense", have you seen the series at all? How much they've progressed ever since the theatrical movie?

No one said the OT was superior in every regard. I certainly don't think so. But overall, it is. As for CW stuff - I LOVED the cartoons, which were NOT directed by Lucas (thank God). The CG movie was an embarrassment to SW fans everywhere. I've heard the new CG shows are pretty decent, and do intend to watch them. But this isn't where it stops - the milking of CW nonsense has permeated video games to a sickening degree - LucasArts is basically one of the ****tiest gaming companies around, which has been exacerbated by the horrid CW-themed games (SWRC is an exception to this). And the EU books dealing with the CW tend to pale in comparison to other-era EU books.

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I'm going to repeat myself. The Mandalorians have been made... PACIFISTS.

To be fair that's only a sect of Mandalorians. That being said, I bet a lot of people won't get that.

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Old 11-03-2010, 08:19 PM   #46
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but there is objectivity in it as well. OT definitely trumped PT in quality of story and character connection.
Character connection, yes. As for story, they are too different. But the question remains. Just because the OT has more quality (whatever that means) than the PT, does it mean the PT has no quality?

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No one said the OT was superior in every regard. I certainly don't think so. But overall, it is. As for CW stuff - I LOVED the cartoons, which were NOT directed by Lucas (thank God). The CG movie was an embarrassment to SW fans everywhere. I've heard the new CG shows are pretty decent, and do intend to watch them. But this isn't where it stops - the milking of CW nonsense has permeated video games to a sickening degree - LucasArts is basically one of the ****tiest gaming companies around, which has been exacerbated by the horrid CW-themed games (SWRC is an exception to this).
I'm not sure how the theme of a game is the problem. There has been what lately? Three Clone Wars themed games? One of them was fairly well received. The other two, not so much. Then there was TFU which was fairly well received too, and TFUII, which was what everyone can see. The problem is quality control. Be it a Clone Wars game, or the next Jedi Knight.

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To be fair that's only a sect of Mandalorians. That being said, I bet a lot of people won't get that.
Yes, forgot to say that. The pacifist is just one of the factions.



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Old 11-03-2010, 08:49 PM   #47
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Just because the OT has more quality (whatever that means) than the PT, does it mean the PT has no quality?

Never said they had NO quality. Just reduced quality.

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I'm not sure how the theme of a game is the problem. There has been what lately? Three Clone Wars themed games? One of them was fairly well received. The other two, not so much. Then there was TFU which was fairly well received too, and TFUII, which was what everyone can see. The problem is quality control. Be it a Clone Wars game, or the next Jedi Knight.

Well, to be honest the theme of the game matters because it drives the story - and as we've already discussed here, most "classic" SW fans tend to take OT-related stuff as better in story (including myself). Quality control is indeed an issue.

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Old 11-04-2010, 12:22 PM   #48
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Well, to be honest the theme of the game matters because it drives the story
A story can be good or bad, no matter the timeline. And I bet the EU has proven this.



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Old 11-04-2010, 03:03 PM   #49
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:33 PM   #50
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=To be fair that's only a sect of Mandalorians. That being said, I bet a lot of people won't get that.
Yeah but weren't they like the main sect that's supposed to have won out? Besides, Mandalorians are not pacifists, period. They're not a race of people, they're an ideal. Mandalorians were supposed to be the best of the best trained warriors. They embraced war and tempered their very beings in battle. To call the pacifists Mandalorians is like calling someone who doesn't believe in the Force a Jedi. Or a Sith Lord who doesn't use the dark side.


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Old 11-07-2010, 04:07 PM   #51
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Yeah but weren't they like the main sect that's supposed to have won out?
Wasn't the Death Watch that came out victorious?

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Besides, Mandalorians are not pacifists, period. They're not a race of people, they're an ideal. Mandalorians were supposed to be the best of the best trained warriors. They embraced war and tempered their very beings in battle. To call the pacifists Mandalorians is like calling someone who doesn't believe in the Force a Jedi. Or a Sith Lord who doesn't use the dark side.
The Death Watch in the series address the same concern, as such there is still another point of view about them.

This article on Wookiepedia explains how this happened, and I find this concern very valid.



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Old 11-08-2010, 02:56 AM   #52
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I'm going to repeat myself. The Mandalorians have been made... PACIFISTS.
If it makes Karen Traviss and her little retards cry it's for the best.
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:14 AM   #53
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Karen Traviss didn't make the Mandalorians. In fact, she dumbed them down almost as much as The Clone Wars did.

The example of Canderous Ordo is the only Mandalorian paradigm I need.


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Old 11-08-2010, 04:44 AM   #54
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To be fair that's only a sect of Mandalorians. That being said, I bet a lot of people won't get that.

- PR-0927
If what I've seen is any indication, hardly anyone gets it. At least anyone who has read the Republic Commando books.

But, as others have pointed out, the fault here mostly lies with Traviss and her turning them into something they were never supposed to be in the first place. After all, she did her best to turn them into cuddly, noble space warriors with hearts of gold.

All the Clone Wars did was take it a step further and remove the 'warrior' bit.






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