lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: [Debate] Starkiller alive?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 07-25-2010, 04:09 PM   #81
Darca Lar
Forumite
 
Darca Lar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 532
Current Game: Dragon Age Origins
He could be the first successful clone, but failed in the fact that he still contains the memories Vader may not want. Vader's just as manipulating as his master, the trailer doesn't offer much other than the clones we know to be clones.


Yesterday is history. Tomorrow, a mystery. Today is a gift...that is why it is called the present.
Darca Lar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-25-2010, 05:09 PM   #82
Slaterx
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
Juno mourned Starkiller as dead...but now he is back, purged of all memories and programmed to kill. And as fate brings Juno and Starkiller closer to reuniting, with Darth Vader determined not to lose his assassin a second time, they will both have to make a stand. The prize is freedom. The punishment for failing will be eternal enslavement to the dark side of the Force...

This is an entry from the Amazon product page for the book. Alot say the books are just as canon and i agree. this shows that starkiller is most likely alive just purged of memory similar to Revan
Slaterx is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 07-26-2010, 09:46 PM   #83
tigers
Lurker
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed Jedi View Post
I know some have been throwing in their ideas in other threads about how Starkiller could have survived, but I thought we should have a thread to actually debate the matter.

So what do you think? Was he actually still alive some how? Did he use some sort of ancient Force Power(essence transfer), or perhaps a new found power? What if Vader lied about him being dead, used the force to conceal his life through the force, and salvaged him once again?

I think Vader could have been masking Starkiller's life from the emperor so that he could try his hand again at claiming the Mantle of Dark Lord. Vader's quotes from the new game trailer maybe some what of a hint.

I'd like to also share that on wookiepedia there has been a small discussion that Starkiller is in fact dead, and the place we see him in in the trailer is the Netherworld.
well of course its not tht starkiller is dead but when darth vader try to make a clone army of him one of the clones started getting his memorys back thus starkiller is reborn
tigers is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-12-2010, 03:26 PM   #84
Smith_Stalker
Lurker
 
Smith_Stalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2
Lightbulb

You cant clone dead tissue/ cells. the cloning process in star wars shows it only touching the fine line of cloning, the perfect clone would not be phsycally linked to one another, nor share the memories unless the original was alive ,read the science behind star wars and you will see. To clone Master Sifo-Dyas's dna for the medicholrine gene for greivas "Star wars" visionaries" they had to keep him under a medical koma when he was half dead, so he wouldnt wake or die. Therefore able to retreive the dna and clone that specific part.
So to conclude, i must suggest that the original G Marek is and will certainally be in a near dead state but kept ( like a vegitable ) in one of those komas, thats why the mentally unstable clone ( the one you are playing as ) is phsycally attached to his memories. Vader wants to remove this and clone one who is not then he will destroy the original. p.s - this is to some content probably true but i am on the other hand just speculating. lol

Last edited by Smith_Stalker; 11-12-2010 at 03:40 PM.
Smith_Stalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-13-2010, 03:55 AM   #85
DarthSlinky
Rookie
 
DarthSlinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 97
Current Game: Starcraft II
Starkiller need not be alive. The "Spirit" of force users exists long after their death. The force is the glue of the GFFA and I would not be surprised if it complicates cloning.


Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.
DarthSlinky is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-13-2010, 08:05 PM   #86
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
Actually, that's not right: In Star Wars, the ability to preserve one's consciousness after death is a technique that one must learn and perfect, and very few knew of it at the time of the movies. I can find no evidence that Galen knew of this technique, so I would assume that he faded into oblivion as any other soul that doesn't possess this secret knowledge. In fact, the novelization of the first game supports this for it describes Galen's soul rising from his body and then dissolving into nothingness.

Good post, Smith_Stalker. I hope you don't turn out to be one of those people that signs up for Lucas Forums only to make a single post and then goes away forever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-14-2010, 01:46 AM   #87
MajinMikeyX
Rookie
 
MajinMikeyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 247
Current Game: Halo Reach, BFBC2
It's hard to say but I'd like to say that Starkiller is alive. Considering the Distant Thunder cutscenes I like to think that Vader showed the Dark Clone the "dead" body of Starkiller and then after that Vader awakens or resurrects Starkiller and he has amnesia like Revan did in KotOR. Either that or that there's the Dark Clone and a good clone(the one we control in TFU2) and the original is still alive but in stasis.

Who knows though, the Distant Thunder cutscenes may not even be canon, and may only be used to create some sort of an infinities backstory to the Dark Clone just for the Dark Side ending.


"All too easy."
MajinMikeyX is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-15-2010, 11:21 AM   #88
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
They're canon. It's the only thing the make sense. As I explained in another thread, everything up to the moment where you make that dark side/light side choice is canon, including everything going on behind the scenes. That means that, for the events of the non-canonical dark side ending to play out, everything before then in the canonical portion of the story has to take place. The Dark Apprentice doesn't just "poof" into existence at that point. Therefore, he exists in the canonical story, but doesn't show his face.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-06-2010, 04:56 PM   #89
Mandalorian Mercenary
Rookie
 
Mandalorian Mercenary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lusby, MD
Posts: 226
Yeah, it'd be kind've cheesy if the dark apprentice just popped out of thin air and stabbed Starkiller..

I believe this Galen Marek is a clone. Just because he had memories that the original Starkiller had doesn't mean he IS Starkiller. Remember, the clones of Jango Fett would often have memory flashbacks from HIM; and he died in Episode II.




"If at first you don't succeed, hire a mercenary to do the job for you. At least they'll get it done right."
Mandalorian Mercenary is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-07-2010, 05:43 PM   #90
Darca Lar
Forumite
 
Darca Lar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 532
Current Game: Dragon Age Origins
You know, i'm gonna change my answer to alive. But I think he will truly be dead by the end of the third installment.


Yesterday is history. Tomorrow, a mystery. Today is a gift...that is why it is called the present.
Darca Lar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-07-2010, 08:16 PM   #91
Mandalorian Mercenary
Rookie
 
Mandalorian Mercenary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lusby, MD
Posts: 226
Wait, there's a 3rd one coming?




"If at first you don't succeed, hire a mercenary to do the job for you. At least they'll get it done right."
Mandalorian Mercenary is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-08-2010, 11:29 AM   #92
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
The ending (or lack tereof) of TFU2 definitely indicates a planned third installment. I guess it depends on how it sells. If it makes a profit, then of course LA isn't going to let the franchise die.
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-08-2010, 04:43 PM   #93
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
I don't know about that. Look at Knights of the Old Republic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-08-2010, 06:11 PM   #94
Mandalorian Mercenary
Rookie
 
Mandalorian Mercenary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lusby, MD
Posts: 226
Indeed. Did you ever chase/fight Boba Fett in your game? I have it for PC, and I never got to fight or see him except for the brief cutscene with Vader.. :/




"If at first you don't succeed, hire a mercenary to do the job for you. At least they'll get it done right."
Mandalorian Mercenary is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-08-2010, 06:33 PM   #95
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Exactly, look at Kotor. The first one was a huge hit, so they rushed a sequel out. That, due to being rushed, was significanly less well received and suffered much worse sales. And they axed the series.

There's a cutscene with Boba Fett and Vader, then you see Fett grab Juno and drag her away on the... Salvation or whatever that ship's name is, and then once you get to the hanger you see his ship blast away just as you enter the room. All in all, less than 30 seconds of screen time.
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-09-2010, 03:00 PM   #96
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
Yeah, it seems a complete waste of the character. We should've had more interaction with him, possibly even battling him as a boss. It's weird because when I read the part of the novel where Starkiller reaches hanger where Fett is abducting Juno, I though for sure there would have been ample interaction with the character in the game at that point. But nope! We barely even catch a glimpse of his ship departing, which was far less dramatic than it was in the novel and graphic novel (wherein Fett blasts out into space with Juno in his grasp and merely slaps a breathing mask on her, which is just retarded. I suppose, in a way, the way it played out in the game was good in that respect).

If you want to gain better insight into Boba Fett's role in the story, I suggest reading the graphic novel because that's about it. Unfortunate, yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-09-2010, 05:43 PM   #97
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Oh, and speaking of underwhelming, what about that bit where Juno is seen lying in the middle of an empty room? There was no indication of what knocked her out and the placement is so conspicuous that it just screamed TRAP! in my face. I thought she'd been knocked out by Fett and placed there as bait. But nope, guess not.
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-09-2010, 07:08 PM   #98
Mandalorian Mercenary
Rookie
 
Mandalorian Mercenary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lusby, MD
Posts: 226
Where was that again? ^^ And change your costume to a Nemoidian, it looks so stupid it's hilarious xD




"If at first you don't succeed, hire a mercenary to do the job for you. At least they'll get it done right."
Mandalorian Mercenary is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-09-2010, 07:53 PM   #99
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
That's on the Salvation, right before you encounter the Terror Troopers for the first time. You see Juno on the floor through some glass (which, unlike any other glass in the game, is inexplicably Force- and lightsaber-proof). Then you backtrack a bit, take the long way around, and smash through an identical looking glass just as Fett takes her away.
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-10-2010, 01:28 PM   #100
Smith_Stalker
Lurker
 
Smith_Stalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2
thank you Zerimar Nyliram hahah but no i am not a one time replyer, i have joined this forum as i am a loyal brethern to the Star Wars Universe and from knowledgeable terms i have read contless times i came up with that theory lol any questions just ask lol
Smith_Stalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-10-2010, 04:38 PM   #101
Darca Lar
Forumite
 
Darca Lar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 532
Current Game: Dragon Age Origins
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
That's on the Salvation, right before you encounter the Terror Troopers for the first time. You see Juno on the floor through some glass (which, unlike any other glass in the game, is inexplicably Force- and lightsaber-proof). Then you backtrack a bit, take the long way around, and smash through an identical looking glass just as Fett takes her away.
Actually I believe its a shield like from ep. 1, not glass. But the second was glass that also acted as a data screen


Yesterday is history. Tomorrow, a mystery. Today is a gift...that is why it is called the present.
Darca Lar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-10-2010, 10:05 PM   #102
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Which of course leads to the question of what kind of ship designer would put impenetrable forcefields between rooms on the inside but would make windows out of ordinary glass that breaks if you so much as cough at it.
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-10-2010, 10:26 PM   #103
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
Okay, there's one thing you need to keep in mind with videogames, and this applies to every single game ever made: Gameplay is never ever canon. Ever. The plot is canon, the non-combative character interactions are canon, and the general progression of the story is canon; but all of the elements that make up the game which the player interacts with and manipulates are purely representational because they are subject to the player's activities. Sometimes this includes some of the level designs, or even the entirety of them. With situations like the one in question, you just have to take the suspension-of-disbelief road and realize that it's only part of the gameplay.

This is the one universal rule of gaming. For The Force Unleashed in particular, we've got a higher level of storytelling that supersedes all other presentations of the story, and that is the novels. I'm not saying that the games should be dependent upon the novels in order to tell the entire story (which, unfortunately, they are in some cases), but that if ever there is a question as to how the story truly plays out when the gameplay factor leaves it ambiguous, the answer is to be found in the novels. If it isn't in the novels, then it's up to your own imagination.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-10-2010, 11:38 PM   #104
Mandalorian Mercenary
Rookie
 
Mandalorian Mercenary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lusby, MD
Posts: 226
It'd be kind've nice if everything was destructible, just cut your way through the whole starship But then the game would be over in less than 30 minutes..




"If at first you don't succeed, hire a mercenary to do the job for you. At least they'll get it done right."
Mandalorian Mercenary is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-02-2011, 10:12 PM   #105
gallandro
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 27
If we follow the George Lucas rule of "If it didn't happen on-screen, it didn't happen," then it's completely possible he's alive. The only evidence to the contrary is that Vader and Palpatine said he was dead about 30 seconds after the explosion.

One deep breath, followed by a, "Lord Vader, he lives still! Perhaps we can use this to our advantage" and we're completely back on track.
gallandro is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-03-2011, 02:16 AM   #106
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
George Lucas doesn't really adhere to that philosophy, though. He says it, but then he turns around and reveals something that happened off-screen. What he really means is, "If happened on-screen, or if I say it happened, it happened."


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-03-2011, 03:00 AM   #107
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Well yeah, but who pays any attention to what George says anymore?
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-03-2011, 11:58 AM   #108
gallandro
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
Well yeah, but who pays any attention to what George says anymore?
Ha. Fair point.

My only point was that the book in no way can be considered proof that he died. I mean, in the Empire Strikes Back novel, Yoda is a 12" tall purple elf with long white hair.
gallandro is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-03-2011, 01:11 PM   #109
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
What? Seriously?
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-03-2011, 01:13 PM   #110
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
It's not the same thing. The movie novelizations were adaptations of early versions of the scripts, when things weren't very clear, so the films take precedence over their novel counterparts. The same isn't true with The Force Unleashed, where both the game and the novel technically exist on the same level of canon ("C-Canon," to be exact). However, it has been said (either by the development team of Leland Chee at the Holocron Community, I can't remember which; possibly both) that the novels take priority over the games. So where there is a contradiction, we are to look to the novels first to see the way things "really" happened, and any additional info from the games is only canon if it can fit in with the events in the novels without contradicting them. (That, plus what I said in another thread about gameplay never being canon, ever).

For example: In the first novel, PROXY is possessed by the Core--the collective consciousness of the planet Raxus Prime--when he fights Starkiller. In the game, however, he's simply seizing the opportunity to achieve his primary function (which I was a bit disappointed to discover that it wasn't like the novel, personally). In this case, the novel's account is "truer" than the game's. In fact, the novelization of the second game references this event as it was told in the first novel, rather than the first game.

However, if there is a retcon at play, then yes, all of this information can certainly be overridden. However, I believe all of this Starkiller-isn't-really-a-clone business is just a bunch of fan wanking, and the Occam's Razor explanation is what is a play here: that he is indeed a clone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-03-2011, 10:16 PM   #111
gallandro
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
It's not the same thing. The movie novelizations were adaptations of early versions of the scripts, when things weren't very clear, so the films take precedence over their novel counterparts. The same isn't true with The Force Unleashed, where both the game and the novel technically exist on the same level of canon ("C-Canon," to be exact). However, it has been said (either by the development team of Leland Chee at the Holocron Community, I can't remember which; possibly both) that the novels take priority over the games. So where there is a contradiction, we are to look to the novels first to see the way things "really" happened, and any additional info from the games is only canon if it can fit in with the events in the novels without contradicting them. (That, plus what I said in another thread about gameplay never being canon, ever).

For example: In the first novel, PROXY is possessed by the Core--the collective consciousness of the planet Raxus Prime--when he fights Starkiller. In the game, however, he's simply seizing the opportunity to achieve his primary function (which I was a bit disappointed to discover that it wasn't like the novel, personally). In this case, the novel's account is "truer" than the game's. In fact, the novelization of the second game references this event as it was told in the first novel, rather than the first game.

However, if there is a retcon at play, then yes, all of this information can certainly be overridden. However, I believe all of this Starkiller-isn't-really-a-clone business is just a bunch of fan wanking, and the Occam's Razor explanation is what is a play here: that he is indeed a clone.
Good point, although I disagree. Not with the facts of your statements, but with the implication. No matter what the developers have said, for 3 decades now, there has been one flat rule with Star Wars products: If it didn't happen on a screen, it didn't happen. Until the Force Unleashed, video games were excluded, but this game was specifically declared canon, which changes the rules, and if they later decide the game's ending was the ending, it's not entirely invalid. It wouldn't be a retcon, as this is new territory. If they want to change their minds and say the game itself was the "true" canon, there's no rule saying they can't.

I also disagree (respectfully) about the fan wanking. They purposely created it as a mystery in the context of the story. This isn't a "Boba Fett survived" thing. This is a fundamental plot element to the point that main characters declare he can't possibly be a clone because force users can't be cloned. It's not fan wanking when the story deliberately sets it up as a mystery. It's perfectly reasonable and fair speculation. It's actually a fundamental part of the story itself, in the book and the game. I can't see - in any connotation - how that could be considered fan wanking.

My personal belief is that he's not a clone. Not because that's what I want to happen (I personally hoped the sequel would be about a new character, as I felt the Force Unleashed story was complete with the first game). But since they didn't go that route, I think he's not a clone for two reasons:

1. Since this is now part of the official Star Wars saga, it would throw a massive hydrospanner into the works in regards to episodes IV, V, and VI. If Vader and the Emperor have perfected cloning, there's simply no way I think it can be explained away that they never tried it again, considering they have infinite resources. Luke should have been fighting twenty Palpatines. A hundred. I think the trilogy will motivate them - from a story standpoint - to make it so Starkiller is the real deal, and they'll find a way to conveniently get rid of him.

The only other option I can think of is if they decide to declare that only the first game/book was canon and the rest is just an offshoot reality. If that's the case, all my theories are void.

2. Kota. His absolute confidence that Starkiller isn't a clone is guided by his logic, but also because the force told him (in the book and I think in the game). I think the inclusion of magic (the force) is the single strongest indicator that he will be Starkiller. Kota has yet to be wrong, that I recall.

So far they have (barely) managed to tell a genuinely good story without directly contradicting the events of the movies. If Starkiller is a clone, they'll have a much, much more difficult time doing this (IMO).
gallandro is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-03-2011, 10:22 PM   #112
gallandro
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
What? Seriously?
Yup. Tiny, purple elf.

But to be fair, Zerimar is correct in that those novelizations are based on early screenplays.

That aside, I definitely recommend them. In Return of the Jedi, the unspoken interaction between Luke and the Emperor during the final confrontation is really, really cool.
gallandro is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-04-2011, 02:50 AM   #113
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
That it is, and I couldn't help but notice that it retroactively feels like a reference to Yoda's and Sidious' battle in Revenge of the Sith.

The "if-it-didn't-happen-on-screen-it-didn't-happen" rule corresponds only to the films themselves (which, as I mentioned, has the unfortunate unspoken addition of "It also happened if George Lucas said so"). This isn't the same as video games. Yes, the game has been declared canon, but it wasn't the first time; almost all Star Wars games are canon. C-Canon, that is. The films are G-Canon. Even if George Lucas pointedly declares that he considers the events of a certain game, novel or comic book to have "truly occurred" within his universe, it doesn't automatically elevate that piece of media to G-Canon (because he's also made the same declaration about Knights of the Old Republic as well as the Dark Empire comic series, the latter of which he would later come to denounce).

So just because something has George Lucas' stamp of approval doesn't automatically put it on the same level of canonicity as the movies. After all, Lucas has the notorious habit of going back on his word and contradicting those stories, or even flat-out disowning them.

Further, how can The Force Unleashed possibly be G-Canon if Lucas' own animated television series, The Clone Wars, isn't even that high? (It's on it's own level: "T-Canon," which a new category and the second highest, between G and C.)

Yes, The Force Unleashed is canon, but in the same sense that the rest of the Expanded Universe is canon.

As for your points about Starkiller, they are fairly convincing, except for one small factor: the Dark Apprentice from the dark side ending and the "Distant Thunder" videos. Now, there's a perfect clone of a Force user, as Vader stated. They can't both be the real Starkiller. (And let's not get into the whole debate over whether or not the Dark Apprentice truly exists despite the non-canon ending. I've made this argument at length in the past. In short, the only logical conclusion is that he does exist.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-04-2011, 03:38 AM   #114
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Gawd. C-canon? T-canon? G-canon? And I get told off for taking this stuff too seriously?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
As for your points about Starkiller, they are fairly convincing, except for one small factor: the Dark Apprentice from the dark side ending and the "Distant Thunder" videos. Now, there's a perfect clone of a Force user, as Vader stated.
Considering how little we've seen of him, I wouldn't make such a bold statement. If Vader was telling the truth and imperfect clones eventually go insane, he may well turn out to be unstable. Maybe his insanity just manifests later. Indeed, being able to suppress memories and convince himself that he's somebody else than he remembers would make him pretty damn crazy in my book.
Alternately, of course, he may actually be the real Starkiller, whom Vader managed to convince that he's a clone. The protagonist would then be just another clone, and indeed towards the end he does seem to become more unstable and obsessed, and experiences hallucinations complete with hearing voices.
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-04-2011, 05:27 PM   #115
gallandro
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
That it is, and I couldn't help but notice that it retroactively feels like a reference to Yoda's and Sidious' battle in Revenge of the Sith.

The "if-it-didn't-happen-on-screen-it-didn't-happen" rule corresponds only to the films themselves (which, as I mentioned, has the unfortunate unspoken addition of "It also happened if George Lucas said so"). This isn't the same as video games. Yes, the game has been declared canon, but it wasn't the first time; almost all Star Wars games are canon. C-Canon, that is. The films are G-Canon. Even if George Lucas pointedly declares that he considers the events of a certain game, novel or comic book to have "truly occurred" within his universe, it doesn't automatically elevate that piece of media to G-Canon (because he's also made the same declaration about Knights of the Old Republic as well as the Dark Empire comic series, the latter of which he would later come to denounce).

So just because something has George Lucas' stamp of approval doesn't automatically put it on the same level of canonicity as the movies. After all, Lucas has the notorious habit of going back on his word and contradicting those stories, or even flat-out disowning them.

Further, how can The Force Unleashed possibly be G-Canon if Lucas' own animated television series, The Clone Wars, isn't even that high? (It's on it's own level: "T-Canon," which a new category and the second highest, between G and C.)

Yes, The Force Unleashed is canon, but in the same sense that the rest of the Expanded Universe is canon.

As for your points about Starkiller, they are fairly convincing, except for one small factor: the Dark Apprentice from the dark side ending and the "Distant Thunder" videos. Now, there's a perfect clone of a Force user, as Vader stated. They can't both be the real Starkiller. (And let's not get into the whole debate over whether or not the Dark Apprentice truly exists despite the non-canon ending. I've made this argument at length in the past. In short, the only logical conclusion is that he does exist.)
Before I get in argument mode, let me just say it's a pleasure debating this with you. I love debates that aren't full of attackery (new word!).

That said, I think the distinction of the Force Unleashed is the Lucas did the story for it (the first one, that is), and has even made comments to that he's toyed with the idea of a movie about Starkiller, although he later recanted - in classic Lucas fashion.

And as for Starkiller, I'm talking about the story of the game, not the game itself. There is a difference. The devs stated that the "lightside" ending is the actual ending and the darkside breaks off in a "what if" tangent. At least they said that about TFU1. I'm not sure about part 2.

My actual position that Starkiller isn't a clone isn't based on my love of the character. Like I said, I wish they had left his story alone with the first game and told someone else's tale with the second. My hope that he's real is because if he's not, it'll be the final straw that - for me -turns this story from a good story to absolute cheese. Just IMHO.
gallandro is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-04-2011, 06:42 PM   #116
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
Well, I think the new DLC kind of solidifies the dark side ending as apocryphal, because we're shown that it leads into a version of the original Trilogy that is very different from what we know. Plus, the light side endings are always canonical. It's just how LucasArts rolls.

Hey, likewise. It's so good to not have a debate end with all parties going for one another's jugulars. I'm used to that from other forums, though there I tend to argue politics, which is always a touchy subject.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-04-2011, 10:59 PM   #117
Darca Lar
Forumite
 
Darca Lar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coruscant
Posts: 532
Current Game: Dragon Age Origins
Lightside is how they roll. They should make something that of the Darth Bane novels.


Yesterday is history. Tomorrow, a mystery. Today is a gift...that is why it is called the present.
Darca Lar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-05-2011, 03:35 PM   #118
JediOrinDavari
Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
Post Starkiller being alive?

Honestly I believe that Starkiller was just presumed dead. vader lied to Palpatine and told him that hes dead. But then after the emperor wasnt looking, he had took starkiller to kamino to make clones of him, but Starkiller woke up suddenly and broke out. Though vader did make some clones that went mad. I mean seriously, Starkiller is too powerful for them to just claim him as dead. And in the dark side ending when the dark clone sees the body of starkiller/ The body he sees is of a clone. Thats my opinion.
JediOrinDavari is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-06-2011, 02:20 AM   #119
Klw
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
I can find no evidence that Galen knew of this technique, so I would assume that he faded into oblivion as any other soul that doesn't possess this secret knowledge.
I don't know if you've seen this yet, but on the official Facebook page a developer said:

(Original Question: "At the end of TFU Starkiller supposedly dies (LS ending) yet didnt become one with the Force...why not?" - Joe Tapp)

Answer: "Without touching spoiler territory (I'm not about to reveal whether or not he died!) it is important to remember that the technique to become one with the Force like Anakin, Yoda, and Obi-Wan was something passed on through Qui-Gon Jinn. Yoda even had to teach Obi-Wan about it after Episode 3."

Considering that Starkiller was the student of Obi-Wan's student, what do you make of this? Does it help at all, or is it just a useless answer? Maybe he's just relating some handy SW knowledge.

Last edited by Klw; 01-06-2011 at 02:28 AM.
Klw is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-06-2011, 03:12 AM   #120
starkiller1157
Rookie
 
starkiller1157's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klw View Post
..it is important to remember that the technique to become one with the Force like Anakin, Yoda, and Obi-Wan was something passed on through Qui-Gon Jinn. Yoda even had to teach Obi-Wan about it after Episode 3."
Also in the Revenge of the Sith Novelization, Yoda was speaking to Qui-Gon in the force and he(qui-gon) was teaching Yoda.

It's hard to understand if Anakin was ever taught this. There is no mention of it in the prequels. And originally, before I saw The Phantom Menace, I assumed it happened to all Jedi.

I'm curious where the developers were going with the story. At this point, I highly doubt there will be a 3rd game. It's gotten some pretty bad reviews and was even nominated as the top 5 worse sequels =/

I prefered the idea that Starkillers soul returned and entered one of the clones, but I don't think that's what the developers chose, since all the clones had the memories...


"I've got a bad feeling about this!"
starkiller1157 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Force Unleashed > General > The Force Unleashed 2 > [Debate] Starkiller alive?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.