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Old 04-28-2011, 11:38 PM   #401
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Is that a trick question.
The trick is rhetorical :O


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Old 05-04-2011, 02:50 PM   #402
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Crap! It's been delayed until 2012.

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Old 05-04-2011, 02:58 PM   #403
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I'm blaming you for this, Rhett

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Old 05-04-2011, 03:00 PM   #404
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I'm actually happy about the delay. It shows that Bioware are serious about giving us a more polished product and not a rush job.

And two new screenshots:





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Old 05-04-2011, 03:05 PM   #405
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Well yeah, every developer, not just BioWare should really have the guts to delay their game a little more if it'll make a difference.

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever"- Shigeru Miyamoto

He should have taken his own advice with The Wind Waker... though even then it turned out pretty damn good.

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Old 05-04-2011, 03:30 PM   #406
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Crap! It's been delayed until 2012.

Linky
Well aren't you full of good news. Next Rhett you will be telling me Christmas is being delayed too.


Don't care just make it good. I don't want a huge delay and then get the game equivalent of the The Phantom Menace.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:35 PM   #407
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I'm actually happy about the delay. It shows that Bioware are serious about giving us a more polished product and not a rush job.
Same here.. though there is that whole Skyrim 11.11.11. thing too...
Game time won't feel so crowded having to choose between the 2


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Old 05-04-2011, 03:42 PM   #408
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Same here.. though there is that whole Skyrim 11.11.11. thing too...
Sorry ChAiNz, but Skyrim has been delayed too. The next date that fits Bethesda date scheme is 12/12/12.

I know what you are talking about, been playing Oblivion getting ready for Skyrim. Also in case you haven't seen this, something Achilles pointed out to me: I'm going back to Morrowind very soon.

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Old 05-04-2011, 03:47 PM   #409
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I'm actually happy about the delay. It shows that Bioware are serious about giving us a more polished product and not a rush job.
Well, as long as it puts on the polish and keeps the paid for DLC to a minimum (or even better, nonexistent), I'm fine with it.


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Old 05-04-2011, 04:09 PM   #410
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Sorry ChAiNz, but Skyrim has been delayed too. The next date that fits Bethesda date scheme is 12/12/12.
NoooOOOOooOOOOooo.... [/vader]

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in case you haven't seen this, something Achilles pointed out to me: I'm going back to Morrowind very soon.
wow.

Guess I know what I'll be installing this weekend.. hehe


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Old 05-04-2011, 04:16 PM   #411
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And two new screenshots:

Is that Earth or the Salarian homeworld?






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Old 05-04-2011, 04:20 PM   #412
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It looks like Earth to me from the background buildings, but that huge structure looks like a Reaper construction. It's a lot like the structures on the Citadel. Could also be Asari.


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Old 05-04-2011, 04:36 PM   #413
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If i was to guess, I would say the Asari homeworld (Thessia i think?). Looks really cool, whatever it is.
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:08 AM   #414
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I'm actually happy about the delay. It shows that Bioware are serious about giving us a more polished product and not a rush job.
According to Eurogamer (quoting EA's John Riccitiello), the reason for the delay is that they want to retool the game for a "wider audience".

Linky

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"One of the things that Ray Muzyuka and the team up in Edmonton have done is essentially step-by-step adjust the gameplay mechanics and some of the features that you'll see at E3 to put this in a genre equivalent to shooter-meets-RPG," he said, "and essentially address a much larger market opportunity than Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 began to approach.

"We're huge believers in the IP and are purposefully shifting it to address a larger market opportunity."
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:17 AM   #415
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What ever the reason for the delay it is no bother to me. I thought that releasing it this year was pushing it.


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Old 05-05-2011, 04:37 AM   #416
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Oh ye gods. So ME3 is going the DA2 route then. As if it wasn't already watered down and mainstream enough.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:44 AM   #417
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That really worries me. And they might get away with it easier this time, because they know a lot of people will be buying it anyway to see how the story finishes.

ME2 was already pretty much a shooter. How much further can they possibly take it and still retain any semblance of an RPG?






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Old 05-05-2011, 04:49 AM   #418
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Does that mean Mass Effect 1 was a watered down shooter?

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Old 05-05-2011, 06:04 AM   #419
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I imagine that's what Astor meant and if he didn't, it's the truth anyhow. Picture related, gameplay concept art of Mass Effect:



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Old 05-05-2011, 06:18 AM   #420
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pew pew pew!

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Old 05-05-2011, 06:24 AM   #421
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It just occurred to me that even Space Invaders didn't use a soggy cover system and actually forced you to, you know, move behind and stay in cover.


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Old 05-05-2011, 06:56 AM   #422
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Does that mean Mass Effect 1 was a watered down shooter?
Nope, it was an RPG with shooter elements. I know this was directed at DarthP, but it's a good opportunity to try to make a point.

There is no philosophy involved in what is an RPG in the context of video game genres. Just like there's no philosophy involved in what is a Real-Time Strategy game. In order for a video game to be classified into the RPG genre of video games, it must posses a specific set of gameplay elements. The same applies to RTS games, Shooters (Third and First person), Action games, P&C Adventures and any other genres you can think of.

I think the genre confusion can happen when a developer borrows gameplay elements from another genre in order to enrich the gameplay of their game (this is the reason most "modern RPGs" give the player the ability to talk to people like he can in good old LucasArts adventure games). This is especially the case if a game is marketed as belonging to base genre A while borrowing elements from genre B, when in fact it belongs to base genre B and borrows elements from genre A.

Since we're talking about RPGs, here are some related examples.

Darksiders was an Action Adventure game. There's no doubt about it - it possessed all gameplay elements of such a game, but it also borrowed certain RPG elements to enrich its gameplay. Namely, you had some light progression in the form of primary weapon level ups gained by gathering enough experience (the gathering was done by killing enemies), as well as a limited inventory and weapon upgrades. You could also buy new/upgrade your weapon combos and abilities at Vulgrim's store. So you could say this game was an Action Adventure with RPG elements.
A similar example would be the Assassin's Creed game series (specifically ACII and AC:B).

On the other hand a more recent example of an action RPG would be Divinity II: The Dragon Knight Saga. This game has all the elements of a classic RPG - inventory with lots of slots, attributes, a bunch of skills (where each skill/spell can be upgraded at least five times), quests, character progression; to name a few. What this game also has is real-time combat (also labeled as button-mashing combat by some) where one click equals one weapon swing (or one arrow shot) and where you have to position your character yourself in order for that swing/shot to count - similarly to the above mentioned Darksiders, or AC, or even Jedi Outcast/Jedi Academy. You can also jump/roll around to avoid enemy attacks, but the damage you deal is calculated based on the equipped weapons and appropriate attributes. After a certain point in the game, you will be able to turn into a dragon at will and fly around and burn stuff like a dragon tends to do. So there's even a flying element in there.
A similar example would be Two Worlds II.

Keeping all this in mind, it is correct to say that Mass Effect 2 is a Third-Person Shooter with RPG elements, while ME1 is an RPG with shooter elements. And there's nothing wrong with that. Both games have their good and bad sides, just as each genre has its good and bad sides. It is important, however, to differentiate them in order to avoid confusion.

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Old 05-05-2011, 07:01 AM   #423
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ME2 was already pretty much a shooter. How much further can they possibly take it and still retain any semblance of an RPG?
I'm having trouble figuring this out as well...
What more can they do?
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:12 AM   #424
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:24 AM   #425
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BioWare aims to "enrich" Mass Effect 3's role-playing mechanics without burdening players with heaps of trivial statistics that barely impinge on the action, according to senior designer Christina Norman.

"We want to enrich the role-playing aspects of the game, while making sure that they're always meaningful in combat," Norman told OXM when asked whether the threequel's fleet-footed tactical gunplay might clash with its RPG elements.

"We don't want to have any meaningless behind-the-scenes stat games, where the output is very minor in combat. Every single thing you do has a real impact in the battle."

Fans of Mass Effect 2 might not notice many of the alterations to the combat system at first, Norman went on.

"We got combat the way we wanted it for ME2, so you're going to feel right at home straight away. But there are so many subtle improvements that you'll miss them if you go back."
Source


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Old 05-05-2011, 10:34 AM   #426
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I'm not sure what the "meaningless behind-the-scenes stat games" refers to. There are no combat character stats in ME - it's all twitch-based. I can only assume it is some reference to the scaling damage of powers and weapons, as there is nothing else you could really term a "stat".

The ME system is already about as bare-boned as it can be without being a pure shooter in the vein of Gears of War. I can't see how on the one hand you can say you are bringing back RPG elements that were stripped out in ME2, yet on the other hand say you're are streamlining elements out.
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:55 PM   #427
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@ igyman: I feel so used...
It felt awesome, just admit it. After all it was all in the name of education.

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I can't see how on the one hand you can say you are bringing back RPG elements that were stripped out in ME2, yet on the other hand say you're are streamlining elements out.
I have to agree with you on that one. It's very confusing and, like pretty much everything they said about ME3 so far, worrying. Except the screenshots, they look cool.

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Old 05-05-2011, 03:35 PM   #428
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I have to agree with you on that one. It's very confusing and, like pretty much everything they said about ME3 so far, worrying. Except the screenshots, they look cool.
Well, RPG is more then only Stats on skills and whatnot, who get used in a "Dice" rolling system. It was pretty clear they sort of kicked that out in ME-2.

Mayhaps, teh developpers are bringing back a more slightly elaborate item upgrade thing and armours? That could be considered an RPG aspect aswell.

Then ofcourse they did say they'd bring back more indepth stat stuff... I could see they offer you more choices to spend points in when you level up, sort of mini skill tree's?

Ack... idiots >_<


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Old 05-06-2011, 05:15 AM   #429
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Well, RPG is more then only Stats on skills and whatnot, who get used in a "Dice" rolling system. It was pretty clear they sort of kicked that out in ME-2.

Mayhaps, teh developpers are bringing back a more slightly elaborate item upgrade thing and armours? That could be considered an RPG aspect aswell.

Then ofcourse they did say they'd bring back more indepth stat stuff... I could see they offer you more choices to spend points in when you level up, sort of mini skill tree's?

Ack... idiots >_<
I think all of that was already mentioned by the devs, exept for the armors which they apparently don´t like.

And i want separate charm and intimidation skills back...


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Old 05-06-2011, 05:26 AM   #430
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Just a heads up - it seems ME1 is $5 and ME2 is $10 today on Steam, for anyone that doesn't already have them (or only has the console versions).
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Old 05-06-2011, 09:12 AM   #431
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Well, RPG is more then only Stats on skills and whatnot, who get used in a "Dice" rolling system. It was pretty clear they sort of kicked that out in ME-2.

Mayhaps, teh developpers are bringing back a more slightly elaborate item upgrade thing and armours? That could be considered an RPG aspect aswell.

Then ofcourse they did say they'd bring back more indepth stat stuff... I could see they offer you more choices to spend points in when you level up, sort of mini skill tree's?

Ack... idiots >_<
You are right when you say that a RPG video game is more than just stats, but that applies to all the other elements you mentioned as well - you can't just put some weapon upgrades, or just put some kind of inventory in a game and call it an RPG.
If you've read my previous post (the long one), then you should see that this is precisely one of two points I was trying to make - if you want to classify a game as belonging to a certain genre, then it needs to have a specific set of gameplay elements that defines that genre of video games. Not just one or two elements, but the whole set. This applies to any genre, not just RPGs.

My other point is that players need to understand this in order to successfully differentiate between, for example, an Action RPG (RPG with elements of action games) and an Action game with RPG elements.


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Old 05-06-2011, 11:50 AM   #432
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PC gamer scans of ME3, maaaaaajor spoilers.

http://imgur.com/a/C5Q82#fLXmO

Show spoiler
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:57 AM   #433
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@ above spoilers

spoiler:
Not too much of a surprise considering some of the stuff they unveiled in the comics. TIM got his shiny eyes from Reaper tech, so I kinda figured it would only be a matter of time before we got some sort of OMGTIM=REAPARZ!!!1!!11 plot twist
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:09 PM   #434
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I've always knew it was coming...
But i had hope they wouldn't go for it.

Really pissed on how Renegades continue to get the shaft...
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:22 PM   #435
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Show spoiler
Show spoiler
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:35 PM   #436
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Urgh. So lame and predictable.
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:41 PM   #437
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Urgh. So lame and predictable.
Depending on how it is done, true. However, since I don't know how it will be incorporated into the story I will hold off my judgment. What do you really expect from a company that biggest plot twist to date was in KOTOR, which by the way was lame and predictable?
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:56 PM   #438
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That "plot twist" re TIM and Co. makes sense, even if predictable and lame. Besides, I'll also w/hold judgement till I see what they do w/ME3. Still, I plan to go into this w/no real expectations beyond it being at least as good/no worse than the first two games.


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Old 05-06-2011, 01:12 PM   #439
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At least Tali is confirmed as being back as a permanent squad member. Not that there was much doubt - I'm pretty sure they would have been lynched if it were otherwise.
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:20 PM   #440
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Yeah, and ChAiNz would have been at the front of the mob building a fire under the tree branch they hanged them from.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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