I'm in Act 3, playing as a male mage Hawke on PC, with 1.02 patch and NVIDIA 270.51 drivers. Since start of Act 2, possibly earlier, I've experienced an intermittent issue where my controlled character loses the ability to attack during combat. Mouse arrow won't turn to the sword when placed over an enemy and all I can do is run my character around using keyboard WASD keys. When this happens I've had to switch to another character in my party, run an attack with that party member, and then I can switch back to the party member I originally couldn't attack with and that party member will now be able to attack as normal. I don't experience this behavior all the time but often enough to find it a distracting annoyance.
Mainly I find that I just haven't gotten into Dragon Age 2's story. Before DA 2's release I recall looking forward to BioWare's first foray into framed narratives. I thought this gave BioWare an opportunity to mix things up a bit, to present their typical epic hero story in a different way. Unfortunately the way DA 2's narrative has unfolded hasn't enfolded me as it usually does with a BioWare game. This coming from a guy that completed Dragon Age: Origins six times and two partial play-thru's. I think the combat changes are an overall improvement. I'm good with the voiced player character. I'm intrigued with Flemeth's role thus far. At this point I'm not entirely sure why Dragon Age 2 hasn't grabbed hold of me like its predecessor did. All I know is that it hasn't. Maybe my feelings will change once I complete the game this weekend but at this point I find it difficult to maintain motivation sufficient to even finish Dragon Age 2. I did not in the slightest anticipate this would be the case when I started the game.
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A rant on BioWare/EA's most current Dragon Age release
Sung to the tune of "Singin' in the Rain" by Gene Kelly
This game--it is so lame. This game--it is so lame!
An inglorious feeling: frustrated again.
I'm laughing at crowds that spawn from above.
No fun's in my heart. Oh, this game I don't love!
Fifty gold I must chase, for a quest low and base.
Its goal? Make you rich. There's a frown on my face!
Roleplaying's in vain when you're writhing in pain.
Dragon Age 2: this game--it is so lame!
This game--it is so lame. This game--it is so lame!
An inglorious feeling: frustrated again.
The tall tale of Hawke is so dull, it makes me squawk.
What's my favorite part? None! It's Varric's cheap talk.
Let the Qunari chase everyone from this place.
Gonna delete my savegames--a fifty-buck waste.
Roleplaying's in vain. It's not meant for this game.
Dragon Age 2: this game--it is so lame!
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VERY FEW PC GAMES nowadays want to make me plunk down fifty dollars of my limited monetary supply for RPG joygasms. However, as soon as BioWare and EA's "Dragon Age II" digital download arrived on amazon.com, I was ecstatic. I didn't care about the price--all I cared about was the chance to revisit the wondrous realm of Thedas. At last, I'd find out what happened to my old friends Leliana, Alistair, Zevran and the rest! Finally, the wait would be over when it came to resolving the conflict between the templars and the mages! Most of all, my new hero, the Champion of Kirkwall, would equal or surpass my Warden in sheer power. Move over, Aeducan--here comes Hawke!
I honestly tried to love Dragon Age 2. I tried. And tried. And tried...
I shall divide my critiques into three areas: quests, choices and Hawke.
QUESTS
Quests are the bread-and-butter of role-playing games (RPG's), whether they be the chief storyline or simple missions that allow you to become acquainted with the game's fantasy world and characters. A quest that is truly worthy of this name, even on the most basic level, has three essential ingredients: 1) a quest giver; 2) a goal or objective, and 3) an outcome. "Talk to Merrill" is NOT a quest; "rescue Merrill from the clutches of a pride demon" IS. The former is simply a conversation lumped under the category of "quest" for simplicity's sake. BioWare and Electronic Arts seem to have forgotten this entirely. Or, perhaps a more sinister and disquieting rationale is at work here: gamers do not want to take the time to talk to their companions anymore, because it interrupts the game's main focus: combat, even in an RPG. In days of yore (read: Dragon Age: Origins, Arcanum, Baldur's Gate, etc.), it was simply a given that you, as the player, would roleplay your character. You would make a conscious effort to get to know the fantasy realm and its inhabitants, not simply figure out the best way to hack them to pieces.
More on this point later. Aside from pitifully-short conversations mislabeled as quests, another major flaw of the actual quests in Dragon Age 2 is their failure to involve the player on a deep emotional level. Missions are carried out as routinely and joyously as a trip to the grocery store or laundromat, with about as much consequence involved. More examples of quests that aren't true quests are the various "lost object" missions: Open a chest or barrel, find a noblewoman's stray shawl or guardsman's pommel, and return it to the highlighted NPC in question. In all cases, the NPC does not seek you out and plead for your help with the necessity of finding this object. It is simply THERE, and you know that the story of Dragon Age 2 would still keep grinding on if poor Apprentice X never found his missing magical grimoire. THIS is the kind of thing that keeps gamemakers raking in profits year after year, but game-players ultimately frustrated and bored--meaningless quests.
CHOICES
There's a not-so-familiar old saying that "having only two options is not a choice. It's a dilemma". Such is the case, over and over again, in Dragon Age 2. Even in the original titles--Dragon Age: Origins and Awakening--there were several factors to consider EVEN IF you could only select one option over another. You had to weigh your "pros and cons" very carefully if you chose to aid the werewolves in their quest for vengeance and self-identification, or to favor a kind but ineffectual monarch over an effective but dictatorial one.
This is almost never the case in this game. Granted, I never played it all the way through, but does "the Exotic Wonder of the East" come back to help or haunt you if you spare her life? What of the charlatan Miracle Makers? Do the Carta's newest recruits come up with an even crazier scheme to bilk the citizens of Lowtown out of their hard-earned coin? One never knows. "To kill or not to kill": that is the perennial question in Dragon Age 2. Even if some decisions do come back to reward you or bite you in the rear end, one gets the sense that all is not--and never would be--lost. In Origins, at least, entire regions of Ferelden would fall to ruin, and disaster would strike, depending on the paths you took. Not so much in this essentially-volitionless world. The only true choice you can REALLY make is the one I mentioned earlier. Never have I been so tempted to spare "evil" characters' existences...
There are plenty of (even major!) quests with only one outcome, whether you "roleplay" with kind, funny, or aggressive dialogue options. The final result is the same. Merrill is recruited into your party no matter what, and your character must venture into the Deep Roads to get rich, regardless if he or she is disinclined. Certainly, some quests have more than one outcome, but by "more than one", I mean "two". You can side with EITHER the templars OR the mages. There is no "middle ground" or tantalizing "third option", where you can tell both sides to screw themselves and blaze your own trail. At least you could do that in Fallout: New Vegas, ostensibly not a BioWare game, but generally reviewed as worse than DA2 on such sites as GameSpot. "The power of choice", reported to be "unprecedented" in this game, is actually very limited. Either go left or right at the fork in the road.
Here is a choice I wish I could have made in the course of Dragon Age 2. Instead of either A) handing the pirate captain Isabela over to the Qunari or B) dueling the Arishok to the death for her freedom, I would have C) taken Isabela's place as a prisoner, becoming the Arishok's loyal and humble new Karasten. Either that, or I would have D) fled Kirkwall with Isabela, leaving the rest of my companions behind if they did not wish to join me on the run. You can pick neither of MY two choices in the game. Care to guess why?
HAWKE
Perhaps the greatest flaw of the greatest sequel to one of BioWare and EA's greatest games is its hero. Hawke (whether s/he be "Marian" or "Garrett") is not a character. I wouldn't even call him/her an archetype (warrior, rogue, mage, hero, comic relief, villain). Hawke is a BUILD. It doesn't really matter what Hawke SAYS; it only matters what Hawke can DO. Meaning, how well Hawke can fight. Combat is the main purpose of this game, if not the sole purpose. If Hawke is not a bad@$$, s/he is no one, not even when s/he is crowned the Champion of Kirkwall (and possible viscount/ess). Even then, what is Hawke the champion OF? Justice? Nobility? Good-natured chaos? Perfidy? No one can really tell. That's because, in the case of Dragon Age 2 "champion" only means "winner" or "best fighter". You've won the game, and you earn a title to prove that you've won the game. That's it. No more. You only lose if you die, and no one wants to do that. Thus, you're slated to win.
There are far more threads about how to "build" Hawke than Hawke himself or herself. "The Ultimate Vanguard", boasts one fan thread. "Anders Vengeance 2.0," boasts another, exhorting readers to beef up one of their companions. These are not characters; these are "bots", and only the strongest survive. At least my Warden, to her credit, had huge qualms over some of the choices she made. The only thing that my Hawke can regret is picking the side that s/he considers the "wrong" one in the end. All other things are considered equal. Ceteris paribus is the real name of this game, in the form of Hawke.
No wonder I've always given her the first name of Perdre. There's no winning here for a roleplayer who wants to roleplay--and, even to lose.
I find it funny how score inflation has gotten to the point that a review can make a game sound about as fun as an enema, and then give the game a 6/10. Apparently 6 is the new 1.
Which begs the question: If someone despising a game gives it a 6, what does it take for a game to earn a 1 or 2, short of actually causing the reviewer's computer/console to explode into a deadly cloud of shrapnel?
(Not really directed at you Tysyacha, more just the direction reviews in general have been heading.)
I think the 6 is generally given for playability and effort. I imagine you'd have to play a game that's fundamentally broken, buggy beyond control/progress, or somehow clearly unworked on. Yes, the reviewer's scale has been chopped down to 6-10, blah blah, but most of these reviewers, cannot in their right minds, give a product 1 or 2 when dozens of people have spent hundreds of hours working on it. Remember that despite repeated cries to the contrary, most people hold reviews to be more of an objective evaluation than an opinion.
For example, think an RPG with no textures, where the NPCs are just moving black blocks, controls become unresponsive every few seconds, the game itself is unplayable on most systems, events fail to trigger and the game just doesn't work at all, and is still marketed as a finished product. But in such a case I'd probably just throw a consumer advisory rather than bother writing a review.
^that particular scene I remember to be pretty difficult. You suddenly run into a dozen of these guys.
Anyway, I think Tysyacha focused on the negative points when writing this review as to show the disappointment with this sequel. It's not so bad as to warrant a 1 or a 2. I think a 6 is an accurate score (as accurate as number can get, at least) for DA2.
It's not so bad as to warrant a 1 or a 2. I think a 6 is an accurate score (as accurate as number can get, at least) for DA2.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't make it a 1 or 2. I'd give it a 5 probably, since it felt very mediocre. Though I actually wouldn't give it anything, since I think a number score is going to be pretty arbitrary no matter what, and should only be assigned to give Metacritic something to work with. A review of major pros and cons, followed by a 'definitely buy it', 'consider it', or 'avoid it', would be better.
Anyway, while I might not give it a 1 from my own opinions, if I were assigned to read Tysy's review and assign a number, it'd be in the 1-4 range.
My personal feelings? DA:O was a good, though flawed, game, that couldn't quite decide whether it wanted to appeal to old-school RPGers or a newer audience. Fun, but can't touch the Holy Trinity.
DA2 decided who it wanted to appeal to, coming down firmly on the 'newer audience' side of the fence. This made the people who liked old-school RPGs annoyed (for instance me, and to an even greater extent, large portions of the Codex). Unfortunately for Bioware, certain design decisions annoyed the 'newer audience' as well.
My hope would be for DA3 to be a shift back towards the old-school RPG type, even if it ended up just sitting on the fence like DA:O did.
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Quests are the bread-and-butter of role-playing games (RPG's), whether they be the chief storyline or simple missions that allow you to become acquainted with the game's fantasy world and characters. A quest that is truly worthy of this name, even on the most basic level, has three essential ingredients: 1) a quest giver; 2) a goal or objective, and 3) an outcome. "Talk to Merrill" is NOT a quest;
You have never talked to companions in any RPG you’ve ever played? Did you talk to Bastila and/or Carth when you were in the Ebon Hawk? Well guess what those were quest as they moved the story along. Without talking to your companions you could not set off the trigger that set off looking for Bastila’s father, Carth’s son or Mission’s brother. The only difference between DA2 and KotOR in that department is DA2 hits you over the head telling you that Hawke needs to talk to the companion. So just like KotOR and most other RPG type games companion quest are usually depended on talking to the companion. If you follow through with the talking then you get to move on to the next branch and finally the real objective and then you have an outcome. Fail to see how anyone can be critical of something almost every other RPG does. Now if you are just upset it is a document quest instead of an undocumented quest, then I can understand that. Don't see why it is a big deal, but can understand it.
As to your example:
1. Quest Giver
spoiler:
Merrill
2. A Goal or Objective
spoiler:
friendship/love interest or even rivalry
3. An Outcome
spoiler:
Merrill sticks with Hawke through thick and thin no matter his/her decisions or she leaves Hawke when those decisions conflict with her own
I mostly agree with your assessment that some other quests were kind of stupid, but not all the quest were emotionless drivel. For the most part I thought the companion quest had some emotional content to them. I also still believe All That Remains is one of the best quest I’ve played since I Remember Me in Mass Effect.
I will also agree with you about the choices. After first completing Dragon Age II, I thought it was a really good game. After playing the second time making largely different choices (still on the good side of things) I was left with about the same outcome. Only real difference was Hawke romanced Isabela instead of Merrill , but siding with the templars over the mages only seemed to shuffle some of the fighting order.
I will say the options you are given with Anders towards the end of the game did allow me forgive some of the other shortcoming I had with DA2.
The only difference between DA2 and KotOR in that department is DA2 hits you over the head telling you that Hawke needs to talk to the companion.
Not even that as KotOR would warn the player (in a different and slightly less artificial way) that a certain character has something new to say. Like "[Carth looks like he has a chip on his shoulder, perhaps you should go talk to him]."
To liven things up and try and finish the game, I uninstalled and reinstalled the game in French! I barely know any French ("bonjour" and "Voulez-vous jouer avec moi aux echecs? Tu vas perdre!" is about my limit). If I don't know what kind of crazy thing is going to fall out of Hawke's mouth, that makes this game so much more interesting!!!! I find myself smiling and going "Huh?" when I get an earful of Varric's long-winded but suave monologues. Plus, I've played the game in English enough times to guess what they're saying in Act 1.
"They were not pleased with some of the innovations and things we'd done."
I love that. Even when something is widely regarded as a step backwards, he calls it an innovation, or at worst a 'thing we'd done'. He just can't bring himself to use the word 'mistake'.
Well there was their reuse of the same level layouts 10 million times as supposedly completely unique environments. I don't think anyone else has ever been that cheap or lazy before. That's innovative surely?
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Well there was their reuse of the same level layouts 10 million times as supposedly completely unique environments. I don't think anyone else has ever been that cheap or lazy before. That's innovative surely?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miltiades
Yeah, I think they should take a patent on that.
What, you're saying this haven't been around since Mass Effect?
Surprisingly enough, treading the same place over and over again didn't bother me as much as it did in ME. I suppose the MAKO bits were insult added to injury.
What, you're saying this haven't been around since Mass Effect?
True, everyone did have that one warehouse or mine, but at least they had the decency to put them in the middle of nowhere on different planets with unique terrain. DA2's reuse just seemed so much more in your face.
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Yeah, it makes no sense to the story in DA2 to reuse the the same areas over and over. I mean the buildings and landscape around my hometown has change so much over the past 10 years.
We don't vacuum the carpet, we burn down the house and build a new one when the carpet gets dirty.
Yeah, it makes no sense to the story in DA2 to reuse the the same areas over and over. I mean the buildings and landscape around my hometown has change so much over the past 10 years.
We don't vacuum the carpet, we burn down the house and build a new one when the carpet gets dirty.
That makes sense for houses and other buildings in Kirkwall, but no so much for caves and beaches being exactly the same.
Yeah, in the real world the same caves and beaches rearrange themselves every few years.
Not what I meant. In the real world, no two caves or beaches are exactly the same, unless you're suggesting that it's literally the same cave/beach every time.
Every time? No, I'm not suggesting that it is literally the same cave every time. Most of the time? No, I'm not suggesting it is the same cave most of the time. I know it is the same cave. As to the man/dwarf/elf made mine/caves, well there are only so many ways you can dig a cave during a certain time period. Pretty sure mines dug in the 1800's look different from those dug in 2000's, but pretty sure those dug in 1800 look pretty similar to those dug in 1805 or 1810 in the same area.
As to beaches I know for a fact there are at least two different beaches layout in DA2. I also know for a fact Hawke visits one of them more than once on different quest. It makes sense at least to me since you take the same path to reach it every time. I'd be more upset if it were different given I've lived most of my entire life within 10 miles of Surfside beach and it has not changed much in 30 some odd years. Beaches do change after major storms (hurricanes), but the only major storm we heard about in DA2 happened when Hawke was journeying to Kirkwall. Surfside Beach change somewhat after Hurricane Alicia in 1983 and did not really change again until Hurricane Ike in 2008.
Yeah, it makes no sense to the story in DA2 to reuse the the same areas over and over. I mean the buildings and landscape around my hometown has change so much over the past 10 years.
We don't vacuum the carpet, we burn down the house and build a new one when the carpet gets dirty.
This would make sense if the duplicate areas were actually the same in-game location, just at a different time. However, while this is sometimes the case, a lot of the time the duplicates are apparently meant to be two different places.
It was annoying in Mass Effect, though mainly from a gameplay standpoint, since there at least, one could imagine that there was some sort of standardized modular design for buildings that you want to quickly set up on just about any planet. This doesn't really work in a world like Dragon Age's, where you don't have huge automatic assembly plants that can churn out completely identical building sections.
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This doesn't really work in a world like Dragon Age's, where you don't have huge automatic assembly plants that can churn out completely identical building sections.
Unless that's what the big steampunk foundry (that you see in the distance in the lower ward) in Kirkwall is used for.
Just played through the new Legacy DLC on a fresh playthrough.
It to me seems pretty good, lot of good fights for a good legth area.
And the final boss is one of the toughest i've faced in a long time.
I know that its early, but does anyone have the locations for the fortress armor pieces? I only found two of them, and as it is very closely based on the Warden armor we see in the game i want to find the remaining pieces (if there are any that is).
I played through it myself. It was pretty good, though still quite overpriced for three-ish hours worth of play.
As for the armor pieces: the boots are in the carta hideout, gloves are either in the tower base area, or in the area right before that one (I don't remember exactly), the helm is in the area right after the tower base one (the area you go to after you pick a side) and the chestplate is on Corypheus' corpse. Basically, the order in which you are meant to find the pieces is boots->gloves->helm->chestplate, so if you missed one, you know you have to backtrack to try to find it.
I've only played through the game once, as a warrior - didn't see much replay value in it and I wanted to wait for them to fix the bugged quests (among other things) before I considered another go at the game. Having said that, the warrior version of the Armor of the Fortress is better than the Champion armor, both stat-wise and appearance-wise - now my warrior Hawke actually looks like a champion, instead of a mercenary in a silly spiky armor. When I do decide to do another complete playthrough of DA2, I'll probably try the mage.
On a side note, as good as the DA2 Grey Warden armor looks like, I have to wonder whose brilliant idea was to give members of an order called the Grey Wardens blue uniforms.
Man, i just want an expansion pack. And if they can make it anything like Awakening, it would be great. Awakening was bugged as hell but it was a decently lengthed, interesting, enjoyable game ^^
I'll be honest, the whole thing seems a bit too similar to the Kasumi DLC for Mass Effect 2. That being said, I do like the sound of seeing Felicia Day's Tallis character, even if it's not in Dragon Age: Redemption.
the last dlc and It seems this have no impact on the actual storyline whatsoever.
They are doing the shovel out crap for money thing, as has been consistent with DA2. Nothing beats DA:O and Awakening up to now, for me. I want an EXPANSION to DA2, and a good one.
Now, there have been a lot of puns and cheeseball stuff in this game, which I mostly like, but this took the cake for me.
EDIT: Ok, having become a little frustrated with certain aspects of the game, I decided to read through this thread a little more thoroughly. Most of my complaints are voiced here quite well, especially the repetitiveness factor, which to me is worse and less in-world "explainable" than Mass Effect.
My big beef though is this: Yes, this is an RPG. We should want to talk to our party members. Why are they scattered all over the place? Yes, nothing will ever be as cozy as the Ebon Hawk or the Normandy... but where did our little campground go? Oh yeah, we are stuck in a city.... how about rich ol' Hawke ponying up for a place for his homies to chill?
To talk to Fenris, Anders, Varric, Isabele, uh.... anyone, you have to go to that members favorite hang. Long walk to get to Anders - yeah.
Hack'n'slash, ridiculous variance in the difficulties of Boss Battles and in general combat (wow, these Bosses sure can spawn lackey's like nothing I have ever seen)...
If Hawke wasn't funny, I would hate this game. As it is, I cannot imagine playing it again. Pretty sad really.
Last edited by Qui-Gon Glenn; 09-19-2011 at 02:19 AM.
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