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Old 01-12-2012, 06:40 PM   #1
Jay Pee
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Manual prestige padawans

Although I really appreciate the creator's effort, the prestige padawans mod has a major flaw and besides that it's not compatible with TSLRCM. Hence I manually want to give my crew their respective prestige class when their basic jedi class has reached lv15, I intend to do it via KSE by adding a class, NOT changing a class.

Now the problem I'm facing, when the PC becomes lv15 and selects a prestige class after having talked with Palpatine's annoying mother, it gets the status of its basic jedi class lv15 and the selected prestige class lv0. As soon as you level up you will get some prestige feats/powers automatically and you get the pick the rest as usual during leveling up. However, if I add a prestige class to one of my crew members using KSE, it automaticcally levels the prestige class up 1 level and it does not give the feats/powers that should come with the prestige class. So you'd end up with basic jedi lv15 + prestige class lv1 without prestige stuff. This way you can't do the leveling up yourself...

Any solutions? Thanks.
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:03 PM   #2
Qui-Gon Glenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pee
when the PC becomes lv15 and selects a prestige class after having talked with Palpatine's annoying mother


Uh, I think that what you want isn't out-of-the-realm... It is a mod request though, and so this thread should probably be moved.

The nuts and bolts of it would be this - you would need to know the specific granted feats and powers of each prestige class that are granted to the PC, and then just add those via KSE. The other way to do it would be to try and tweak that mod a little for your own purposes... I think it is a problem wiht TSLRCM because it alters the dialogs of the party members. The scripts used for multiclassing the padawans could be used elsewhere, on a special placeable on the Ebon Hawk perhaps, that way not messing with the padawans dialog files, making it an all dependent on a simpler/less difficult to make compatible placeable. If the Exile had quarters, I'd put it there..... Where does the Exile sleep anyway? In the chair next to Atton in the cockpit?

EDIT: Ok, so this is less complicated than I thought... or is it?

Most of the "changes" done by SuperSquall's Prestige Padawans are actually in loading items into the override so that a specific class robe can be given... none of that is an issue unless there is a conflict in how SS did his file naming, and what he overwrote vs what TSLRCM overwrites. If that is the case, and you want to take the time, it will literally be an hour of changing some tags and templates and making your changes consistent - all easily done by KotOR Tool.

The major change I would think is in the a_makejedi script... That is where the "incompatibility" must lay. Not really sure why though... If you are real concerned about it, I bet Stoney would provide his version of that script's source code, and we could whip up a patch for ya right here in this wacky Holowan Lab! Of course, you would have to ask him (if there is one???)

Were he to do that, I think we could merge his source with a tweaked version of SS's and make a version for you that granted the feats and powers you want to the padawans, and give them whatever special item as well.


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Last edited by Qui-Gon Glenn; 01-12-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:14 PM   #3
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For the record, if it'd be Atton's choice he and the female PC would sleep in the warm engine room, preferably with the hatch sealed.

Guess my only option is to reload a savegame where I'm about to select my prestige class, select them all to check which things get added, and then add those to the respective prestige classes of my crew. I asked for manual.. Seem like I'm getting it manually...
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:43 PM   #4
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Yeah.... I need more info before I start digging into this one. I think you could find what gets added for Prestige Classes from one of achilles' lookup sheets... perhaps do some searching for that info?

If you tell me what is added for each class, I will edit SS's original a_makejedi for you so it does what you want it to... It will still not come into play, to me, in a balanced or wholly successful way, but would be closer to what you want. I really doubt that it is the compatibility issue, as I see no need for Stoney or zbyl2 to have changed that particular script, so you can take my "fixed" version and try it in your game a la carte.

EDIT: Just to show you the relative simplicity...
Code:
// This global script is intended to be used for making each CNPC a Jedi.
/* Parameter Count: 1 (Which CNPC you intend to make a Jedi.)

NPC numbers, as specified in NPC.2da

0       Atton
1       BaoDur
2       Mand
3       g0t0
4       Handmaiden
5       hk47
6       Kreia
7       Mira
8       T3m4
9       VisasMarr
10      Hanharr
11      Disciple

*/
//// CFA 10-5-04

void main()
{
    // Grab the Parameter.
    int nScriptNumber = GetScriptParameter( 1 );
    int goodEvil;

    // If Param = 0, then it's Atton. (Trying to make it consistent with the CNPC integers.)
    if ( nScriptNumber == 0 ) {
        goodEvil = GetGoodEvilValue(GetObjectByTag ("Atton"));
        if(goodEvil >= 70){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDIWATCHMAN, GetObjectByTag ("Atton") );
        }
        if(goodEvil <= 30){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_SITHASSASSIN, GetObjectByTag ("Atton") );
        }
        if((goodEvil > 30) && (goodEvil < 70)) {
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDISENTINEL, GetObjectByTag ("Atton") );
        }
        CreateItemOnObject("ss_robe_01", GetFirstPC(), 1);
    }

    // If Param = 1, then it's Bao-Dur. (Trying to make it consistent with the CNPC integers.)
    if ( nScriptNumber == 1 ) {
        goodEvil = GetGoodEvilValue(GetObjectByTag ("BaoDur"));
        if(goodEvil >= 70){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDIWEAPONMASTER, GetObjectByTag ("BaoDur") );
        }
        if(goodEvil <= 30){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_SITHMARAUDER, GetObjectByTag ("BaoDur") );
        }
        if((goodEvil > 30) && (goodEvil < 70)) {
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDIGUARDIAN, GetObjectByTag ("BaoDur") );
        }
        CreateItemOnObject("ss_robe_03", GetFirstPC(), 1);
    }

    // If Param = 4, then it's the Handmaiden. (Trying to make it consistent with the CNPC integers.)
    if ( nScriptNumber == 4 ) {
        goodEvil = GetGoodEvilValue(GetObjectByTag ("Handmaiden"));
        if(goodEvil >= 70){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDIWEAPONMASTER, GetObjectByTag ("Handmaiden") );
        }
        if(goodEvil <= 30){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_SITHMARAUDER, GetObjectByTag ("Handmaiden") );
        }
        if((goodEvil > 30) && (goodEvil < 70)) {
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDIGUARDIAN, GetObjectByTag ("Handmaiden") );
        }
        CreateItemOnObject("ss_robe_05", GetFirstPC(), 1);
    }

    // If Param = 7, then it's Mira. (Trying to make it consistent with the CNPC integers.)
    if ( nScriptNumber == 7 ) {

        goodEvil = GetGoodEvilValue(GetObjectByTag ("Mira"));

        if(goodEvil >= 70){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDIWATCHMAN, GetObjectByTag ("Mira") );
        }
        if(goodEvil <= 30){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_SITHASSASSIN, GetObjectByTag ("Mira") );
        }
        if((goodEvil > 30) && (goodEvil < 70)) {
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDISENTINEL, GetObjectByTag ("Mira") );
        }
        CreateItemOnObject("ss_robe_04", GetFirstPC(), 1);
    }

    // If Param = 11, then it's the Disciple. (Trying to make it consistent with the CNPC integers.)
    if ( nScriptNumber == 11 ) {
        goodEvil = GetGoodEvilValue(GetObjectByTag ("Disciple"));
        if(goodEvil >= 70){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDIMASTER, GetObjectByTag ("Disciple") );
        }
        if(goodEvil <= 30){
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_SITHLORD, GetObjectByTag ("Disciple") );
        }
        if((goodEvil > 30) && (goodEvil < 70)) {
            AddMultiClass (CLASS_TYPE_JEDICONSULAR, GetObjectByTag ("Disciple") );
        }
        CreateItemOnObject("ss_robe_02", GetFirstPC(), 1);
    }
}
This is the code from SuperSquall's mod. It is not perfect code, in that you get a robe regardless of whether you actually earned a prestige class. Oh well.... it would be very simple to add in a few feats and powers to this code.


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Last edited by Qui-Gon Glenn; 01-12-2012 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:11 AM   #5
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First of all, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention I'm also using the RCM compatible USM mod. So to clear things up, I'm running: vanilla+RCM+USM for RCM. What I know for sure is the USM's addition to the dialog to have the NPCs make their own lightsaber is not compatible with SS' modification which gives the NPCs their custom personal robe and a standard non-USM lightsaber.

Also, the above code shows what is like 'the' flaw of SS Prestige Padawans. Certain basic jedi feats/powers only come (without modding/cheating) naturally during basic jedi class lv1~lv15. So you need your crew to be a basic jedi class up till lv15. E.g. Bao-Dur would have to be a lv6 techno geek+lv15 jedi guardian+lv1 weapon master when he turns lv22. The issue with the current SS Prestige Padawans mod is that it does not stack a prestige class on top of the basic jedi class. Instead it replaces the basic jedi class, thereby messing with the feats/powers in that NPCs do not get the basic feats/powers they should be getting during their basic jedi lv1~lv15 phase. Examples are the immunity feats for sentinels and the force jumps for guardians.

The ideal mod:
1. No messing with RCM or USM for RCM files.
2. Have USM manage the entire proces of lightsaber creation, not the new mod.
3. Automatic addition of the lv0 prestige class for NPCs when their basic jedi class becomes lv15, so you can then manually level up to lv<xx> character's class+lv15 basic jedi class+lv1 prestige class.
4. Automatically getting the proper feats/power upon leveling into the first prestige class.
5. OPTIONAL: Have the NPCs acquire their own custom personal robes as developed by SS upon leveling into the first prestige class. He did a very fine job making them! Also, as far as I'm concerned he's got one of the few options to have Bao-Dur wear armor that does not restrict use of Force.

Later this day I will come up with a list for all 6 prestige classes of the feats/powers they automatically get upon leveling into the first prestige class.

Starwarsknights.com already has a full list of all the prestige feats/powers, it's just a matter of sorting out which ones you get automatically for free when leveling to a certain level, and which ones are to be selected by the player when investing points.

Would be very cool to have this fixed, it's just that I'm not much of a modder so I would need all the assistance I can get. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just the addition of a prestige class and their auto-feats/powers. Personally I see no single reason -when placing myself in the Star Wars context- why the PC should be able to learn the "subtitlies of the force" whereas the crew is stuck with a mere basic jedi class. Also I think the RCM fans/community will be pleased with this mod (cite needed)! Imagine Mical as a consular+jedi master, he'd be the ultimate buffer/healer support class... Or Bao-Dur with all guardian+weapon master feats after farming Hssiss' to lv50, he'd be the leading damage dealing class, breaking every barrier possible!

I'll update this thread later this day. Lemme know what you think of it please.

Last edited by Jay Pee; 01-13-2012 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Automatic addition of the lv0 prestige class for NPCs when their basic jedi class becomes lv15, so you can then manually level up to lv<xx> character's class+lv15 basic jedi class+lv1 prestige class.
What you want is not possible. The game only supports up to two character classes. Adding a third class can crash the game. Even when it doesn't, it simply replaces the second class.


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Old 01-13-2012, 06:12 AM   #7
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OK. That's bad, but not lethal. I think the best option then is to have the NPCs classchange when going from lv15 to lv16 in their prestige class. However, what would then happen with feats/powers learned (either automatically or hand picked by the player) during the lv1~lv15 basic jedi phase?
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:05 AM   #8
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Right. Here's a list of the feats (FT) and powers (FRC) a prestige class automatically gains when becoming a certain level. Feats/powers that are opened but not automatically given to the class are not included in this list. Please do not quote this list as I'll be updating it. The results are based on leveling to lv50 by giving the PC 2M exp.

Weapon master
@ lv1
FT weapon focus lightsaber
FT greater prestige sense
FT deflect
FT increase melee damage 1

@ lv3
FT inner strength 1

@ lv7
FT innerstrength 2

@ lv8
FT increase melee damage 2

@ lv11
FT inner strength 3

@ lv15
FT increase melee damage 3

Watchman
@ lv1
FT weapon focus lightsaber ***
FT sneak attack 1
FT greater prestige sense
FRC force camouflage

@ lv4
FT sneak attack 2

@ lv7
FT sneak attack 3
FRC improved force camouflage

@ lv10
FT sneak attack 4

@ lv13
FT sneak attack 5
FRC master force camouflage

@ lv16
FT sneak attack 6

@ lv19
FT sneak attack 7

*** I find it very odd that a watchman gets FT weapon focus lightsaber as the feat clearly states a jedi guardian is one of the prerequisites. Even more so while I am a sentinel+watchmen during testing. This must either be (1) a bug, (2) due to RCM, (3) or due to USM for RCM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pee View Post
OK. That's bad, but not lethal. I think the best option then is to have the NPCs classchange when going from lv15 to lv16 in their prestige class. However, what would then happen with feats/powers learned (either automatically or hand picked by the player) during the lv1~lv15 basic jedi phase?
No, that's not possible either. Once you have a few Jedi levels, the game will simply crash.The more levels of a Jedi class you have, the more likely it seems it will crash. I'm not able to predict exactly when it will crash, either. With some characters I can get up to 5 Jedi levels, with others only 2 - it might depend on the class choices, or possibly on the feat progression of the classes (e.g. level 6 might cause it to crash because feats are granted on that level, but level 7 might not). And there is no script function to change class in any stable way. - it's not supposed to happen. So in the case where it doesn't crash, it's still broken. Anything you have picked as a Jedi is kept, but your levels are are erased, so it lets you level up more than you should. For example, Atton is a Level 3 Scoundrel. Turn him into a Jedi Sentinel, level him up twice, and he's a Scoundrel 3/Jedi Sentinel 2. Then if you try to give him a prestige class, assuming the game doesn't crash, those Jedi levels are replaced and he becomes a Scoundrel 3/Jedi Watchman 0, but he still has all the abilities of a Level 2 Sentinel. And his XP is the same as it was, plus one level for the prestige class, so you can level him up to a Scoundrel 3/Jedi Watchman 3... but you've effectively leveled up him 5 times - twice as a Sentinel, three times as a Watchman. Yeah, maybe that sounds like a good deal, but they're low levels and that's cheating anyway.

Even if you could give a character three classes, or change one of their classes, the feat progression would be all wrong. It's based on the class level and not the character level, so if you had two classes that share a feat tier, you'd have a gap in your progression at some point. For example, Sneak Attack is available to a Scoundrel, Jedi Watchman, or Sith Assassin. Let's say you turn Atton into a Jedi Sentinel when he reaches Level 6. Sneak Attack III is granted at Level 5, so he will have up to the third tier when he becomes a Jedi - once he does he stops getting it. Understandable, I guess - his focus is elsewhere. But if he becomes a Jedi Watchman after level 15, he should start getting it again. However, a Watchman doesn't get Sneak Attack IV until Level 10; he's supposed to be getting I-III during all that time. So Atton won't get another tier of Sneak Attack until he has 25 character levels (Scoundrel 6/Jedi Sentinel 9/Jedi Watchman 10).

Frankly, the game just doesn't support multiclassing very well. It was designed with D&D mechanics, but without the same design philosophy. In D&D, you can choose any class you want when you level up - that's why most things are based on class level rather than character level. But here, we have that limitation, without any choice.

The only way to resolve - and I'm pretty sure I saw someone suggest this in another thread recently - would be to specifically change Atton's feat progression to give him Sneak Attack based on his character level, along with Survival and his other special feats. But this would mean he would get Sneak Attack even if you never make him a Jedi or give him a prestige class. And the game would still give you annoying messages saying he's gotten Sneak Attack I when he has like 7 levels of it already.


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Old 01-13-2012, 07:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426 View Post
No, that's not possible either. Once you have a few Jedi levels, the game will simply crash.The more levels of a Jedi class you have, the more likely it seems it will crash. I'm not able to predict exactly when it will crash, either. With some characters I can get up to 5 Jedi levels, with others only 2 - it might depend on the class choices, or possibly on the feat progression of the classes (e.g. level 6 might cause it to crash because feats are granted on that level, but level 7 might not). And there is no script function to change class in any stable way. - it's not supposed to happen. So in the case where it doesn't crash, it's still broken. Anything you have picked as a Jedi is kept, but your levels are are erased, so it lets you level up more than you should. For example, Atton is a Level 3 Scoundrel. Turn him into a Jedi Sentinel, level him up twice, and he's a Scoundrel 3/Jedi Sentinel 2. Then if you try to give him a prestige class, assuming the game doesn't crash, those Jedi levels are replaced and he becomes a Scoundrel 3/Jedi Watchman 0, but he still has all the abilities of a Level 2 Sentinel. And his XP is the same as it was, plus one level for the prestige class, so you can level him up to a Scoundrel 3/Jedi Watchman 3... but you've effectively leveled up him 5 times - twice as a Sentinel, three times as a Watchman. Yeah, maybe that sounds like a good deal, but they're low levels and that's cheating anyway.

Even if you could give a character three classes, or change one of their classes, the feat progression would be all wrong. It's based on the class level and not the character level, so if you had two classes that share a feat tier, you'd have a gap in your progression at some point. For example, Sneak Attack is available to a Scoundrel, Jedi Watchman, or Sith Assassin. Let's say you turn Atton into a Jedi Sentinel when he reaches Level 6. Sneak Attack III is granted at Level 5, so he will have up to the third tier when he becomes a Jedi - once he does he stops getting it. Understandable, I guess - his focus is elsewhere. But if he becomes a Jedi Watchman after level 15, he should start getting it again. However, a Watchman doesn't get Sneak Attack IV until Level 10; he's supposed to be getting I-III during all that time. So Atton won't get another tier of Sneak Attack until he has 25 character levels (Scoundrel 6/Jedi Sentinel 9/Jedi Watchman 10).

Frankly, the game just doesn't support multiclassing very well. It was designed with D&D mechanics, but without the same design philosophy. In D&D, you can choose any class you want when you level up - that's why most things are based on class level rather than character level. But here, we have that limitation, without any choice.

The only way to resolve - and I'm pretty sure I saw someone suggest this in another thread recently - would be to specifically change Atton's feat progression to give him Sneak Attack based on his character level, along with Survival and his other special feats. But this would mean he would get Sneak Attack even if you never make him a Jedi or give him a prestige class. And the game would still give you annoying messages saying he's gotten Sneak Attack I when he has like 7 levels of it already.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is ****ed up! Srsly, if Obsidian did their work properly, hell, if Bioware would've done it, we wouldn't need 75% of all the community effort put in this game!

I guess your explanation is also the reason why the SS Prestige Padawans mod kinda messes up the feat/power tiers of the NPCs. And I guess it's like you said, if they would've just imported the 3.5 mechanics and left all the dynamics open instead of scripting, we wouldn't have all these trouble...

I think totally revising the entire feat/power tiers of the NPCs, with their starting classes kept in mind and presuming they will turn into the most fitting prestige classes at jedi lv15, is one hell of a job! Probably too much for a 2003 game already being supplanted by an MMO variant...
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:57 AM   #11
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I really think D&D is a very poor choice for Star Wars to begin with, but that's another matter. But having a class system and being forced to stick with it, that's just terrible. It ends up being a slippery slope - either the classes are so different that you're seriously screwed if you change your mind later (K1), or the classes are so similar that there's little point in having classes at all (K2). I think NWN gave you more freedom, too - and being a D&D game, it makes more sense anyway. I would prefer some sort of talent tree system like Wizards uses, but anyway, back to the prestige classes.

I think it might be worth it to just forget about the prestige classes at all, and just give the Jedi classes more fancy stuff after 15th level - maybe give the prestige classes some extras for the Exile, Kreia, and Visas - that way all the Jedi can get a chance, even a gray Exile who can't even choose a prestige class. This would be pretty easy to do, too - just some 2DA editing - and compatibility wouldn't be an issue.


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Old 01-13-2012, 08:11 AM   #12
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So you're saying slice out the entire prestige class system, and give both PC and NPC from lv16 and higher the ability to select the proper prestige feats/forces to generate in-party balance and equality? It would be appropiate then to say when good/evil<50 you would open up darkside feats/powers, while when good/evil>=50 you would open up lightside options. We would have to assume that -when using this mod/script- both the NPCs and PC continue down their paths. That is, sentinel > watchman/assassin, guardian > wm/marauder, etc.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:02 AM   #13
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Actually, for a while now (i.e. several years) I've had this idea in the back of my head to just eliminate the prestige classes completely so that new classes could be added (you can't just add a class however you please, there are limits) and then overhaul the entire system, but I've never actually had the time to sit down and do it. But I'm not suggesting to get rid of them entirely, not just yet... more like this:
Code:
* - available, not automatic

Jedi Guardian			Jedi Weapon Master		Sith Maurauder

15 - [...]
16 - Greater Prestige Sense	1 - Greater Prestige Sense	1 - Greater Prestige Sense
     *SWF: Lightsaber		    *SWF: Lightsaber		    *SWF: Lightsaber
     *S. Two-Weapon Fighting	    *Sup. Two-Weapon Fighting	    *S. Two-Weapon Fighting
     *Increase Melee Damage I	    Increase Melee Damage I	    Increase Combat Damage I
     *Deflect			    Deflect
     *Increase Combat Damage I
17 - 				2 - 				2 - 
18 - *Inner Strength I		3 - Inner Strength I		3 - Ignore Pain I
     *Ignore Pain I
...and so on, with the prestige classes gaining them automatically and the corresponding Jedi classes having the choice to pick them (i.e. they have to spend a feat).

Some of the prestige feats don't do anything if you're the wrong alignment, so in theory you really could give them to everyone, but I think it would work better as a choice. And to be fair, you could have the prestige classes able to select the other version too, but gain only one of them automatically. There's no way to have it specifically based on your alignment, because the level up system is done with 2DA files and not scripts (I believe this is because all the GUIs aren't technically in the game, they run off different code).


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Old 01-13-2012, 12:25 PM   #14
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Yeah I feel ya... But lemme get you straight, aside from your 'select and spend' system, you want to give non-prestige classes the same feats/powers as prestige classes. Why not remove Obsidian's way of multiclassing (as it stinks anyway) and implement your prestige class surrogate method for the PC as well? If only for the sense of simplicity and uniformity...

From my logical way of thinking that would only require two basic things:
1. Cut out the old bitch's prestige class trigger.
2. Implement a simple script saying IF level xx is accomplished AND good/evil>50 THEN give feat xx etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong... This way you would only get the appropriate prestige class but mixing base classes with different prestige classes weakens your char. anyway imho. I don't wanna bitch at your proposition but I really don't see why you should bother with the hassle of the original prestige system and yours altogether if you can simply cut off the access to the original system of multiclassing.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:19 PM   #15
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Well, I do have plans to remove them and redesign the system at some point. My above suggestion is more or less a rudimentary prototype of my ultimate goal, but... I have no real intention of doing it anytime soon. So I don't see any point in removing the prestige classes if you're not gaining anything from them (i.e. space for other classes). And I can think of at least one reason to keep them: if you remove them, you're stuck with one class for the whole game, with a system that's already limited because of the classes. Additionally, this:
Quote:
Implement a simple script saying IF level xx is accomplished AND good/evil>50 THEN give feat xx etc.
...is easier said than done. There's no way to fire a script every time you level up. You'd have to fire the script some other way - either force the player to do it manually, or change some heartbeat scripts. Of course, making the player do something every time they level up is asking for trouble, and hearbeat scripts are always trouble.

If I were to remove the prestige classes, I'd keep everything the way it is now, but rather than get a new class, you'd get some of the class' feats (Prestige Sense, Deflect, etc), while others would be innate to the Jedi classes (Superior Two-Weapon Fighting, Sneak Attack, etc). The light/dark abilities are still an issue, as are most feat tiers, though. One idea I have would be to grant Light Side Enlightenment/Dark Side Corruption when the Nihilus video is triggered, rather than have it be limited to Jedi Master/Sith Lord.

Also, I generally don't like it when you can't select something because of your class (for the record, the most unappealing of all are the Weapon Master/Marauder "features", simply having access to a dozen feats, not getting any of them for free, and not letting anyone else even select them) so I would remove a lot of the restrictions, and change a few other things to make it more balanced.

In any case, there are really three things that I'd like to accomplish, regarding the prestige classes:

1. Prestige classes are unusued, so there's space for other classes
2. The Exile is still able to gain new abilities at level 15, so you're not 100% stuck with what you chose at the beginning of the game
3. The party members don't get the shaft.

And simply getting rid of the prestige classes wouldn't be enough for #2, and to an extent #3.

As far as my other changes go, most of them relate to the skill system - the seemingly random assignment of class skills and certain party members' inability to use their supposed features. One other thing I'd like to do is have the option to multiclass the party members into non-Jedi classes, since this a roleplaying game and you shouldn't have to base your choices on their strategic value. But this issue is so complex that I've never really laid out what I really want, what I can and can't do, and so on.


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Old 01-13-2012, 02:24 PM   #16
Qui-Gon Glenn
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You never said that the USM was the source of your incompatibility. The help here is free to you sir, try to provide all the pertinent information so the help provider doesn't run around wasting precious time on wild goose chases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pee View Post
2. Implement a simple script saying IF level xx is accomplished AND good/evil>50 THEN give feat xx etc.


Simple.

Bu...But where do you put this script, to make sure it fires at the proper time and place accordingly for each padawan party member. Ooooooooooh........ not so simple now. Probably only doable by playing with the Ebon Hawk's OnEnter script, which will still be less than perfect implementation of what you would like to do, with the additional horror of modifying what is already a massive script heavily modified by the TSLRCM. Ummmmm...... Yeah..... We're going to need you to come in on Saturday.....

I am pretty sure you mis-read JC's intentions there JP... I think he was suggesting exactly the same thing you were.... same system for all RE: leveling.

I like your sense of humor, but your sense of expectation could be toned down just a hair. For example, this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Pee
That, ladies and gentlemen, is ****ed up! Srsly, if Obsidian did their work properly, hell, if Bioware would've done it, we wouldn't need 75% of all the community effort put in this game!
Huh? We don't need 5% of the communities effort, shoot we really don't NEED the effort WE (who is we?) put into it, we have done these things because we wanted to do, a labor of love if you will. 99% of the mods out there have nothing to do with fixing bugs.

Welcome to the forums JP. Not a task I would take on My work is done here.


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Old 01-13-2012, 03:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Glenn View Post
I am pretty sure you mis-read JC's intentions there JP... I think he was suggesting exactly the same thing you were.... same system for all RE: leveling.
Ultimately... but I don't think anyone was suggesting that the Exile's class progression should be changed in any way, just the party members, hence my alternate proposal - to keep the prestige classes and just alter the regular Jedi classes after 15th level to incorporate some of the prestige abilities, which would have the added bonus of letting the a gray Exile gain some prestige abilities. But if one does want to change the whole thing... then yes, do away with them entirely. I have plans... but as I said, "ultimately" likely means "several more years".
Quote:
Huh? We don't need 5% of the communities effort, shoot we really don't NEED the effort WE (who is we?) put into it, we have done these things because we wanted to do, a labor of love if you will. 99% of the mods out there have nothing to do with fixing bugs.
Maybe not fixing bugs, ultimately all of them exist either because people didn't like the way the developers did something, or just wanted to learn how to do something. A percentage of modders go on to do this professionally, becoming the next generation of developers, and ultimately do something their players don't like, and thus the circle is complete. That's how I like to see it, anyway.


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