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Thread: The Critic's 2 cents
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:59 AM   #11
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Originally Posted by christos200 View Post
No. They are just some very poor crazy peasants that hope for a better future. Also when a soldier knows that he has other 5 million soldiers while the enemy on 50,000 then he will be expecting victory.
Thank you for your kind attention. One thing I enjoy is a willing student. As fror why I asked, there was no rational reason for your army to be so badly equipped. As to 'knowing' you will win, I give you two quotes. The first is from my Return From Exile prior to the battle of Dxun. The Republic commander has accepted an honorable challenge, and this is the Exile's reply as second in command as a Jedi among the Infantry contingent: When told she has to take exactly the same number of troops as she faces. She can expect massive certain losses when a defender starts at needing two to one jjust by using available natural cover even before considering redoubts etc where it can climb to needing six to one to defeat them.

“How the hell do you expect me to maintain an army this idiot is busy destroying to make himself look good in the history books!”

“Then it can’t be done?”

“Oh it can be done!” Marai shouted. “But the reunion will be ten or fifteen of them sitting around afterward because all the rest of us will be dead!”

The other quote comes from the Movie Big Red One at the end where the men bust their humps saving the German sergeant that had been stabbed after the ceasefire had occurred. The narrator end the movie with this:

Zab: [narrating] Saving that Kraut was the final joke of the whole goddamned war. I mean we had more in common with him than all our replacements who got killed whose names we never even knew. We'd all made it through we were alive. I'm gonna dedicate my book to those who shot but didn't get shot, because it's about survivors. And surviving is the only glory in war, if you know what I mean.

What both are saying is this. My Exile is saying you can win, but remember the cost. The second quote boils down to surviving is the only goal of a soldier. For the commander is trying to keep as many of your own alive.

You're still ignoring everything that could be done before your troops deploy. Whether a single planet or a hundred, you have to face the fact that such a poorly armed force is going to suffer massive casualties every time they go into battle and I cannot see any group of Jedi no matter how tainted leading them in this regard.

The reason I suggested Taris for the starting point is simple, in an overly built up city with narrow and short approaches, your army has the best chance of assaulting enemy troops with better weapons, meaning more of your troops survive.

Take for example, your army attacking Manhattan Island. I will allow that you were able to get them all into present day Harlem before the army reacts.

Too many commanders are not going to think deep enough and high enough as it were; there are sections of Harlem where a 2 by 6 or 2 by 8 plank will get you to the next street over not touching the ground in between. For that matter, thanks to the narrow alleyways of that section of the city you can go through alleys and only touch streets when you cross them to get to the next block. You can walk in the front door of this street, out the back door into the alley, in the back door of the next building, and now you are on the next street over.

As for down there are tunnels under Manhattan up to a mile down that have not been used in a century, and poorly mapped. So you can flank the better armed enemy, and eventually win, but what happens then?

Originally Posted by christos200 View Post
Also the revolution started in multiple planets. That means that with a huge supplies and and shipyards they could take over a lot of planets. Also with the help of almost half the jedi knights, they have generals to lead.
Whether ten or a thousand planets, ignore what your enemy can do, and you will automatically fail. Let's use the US as an example. Somehow your army has defeated our army, and they immediately move to capture enough ships to invade other countries. But ships are not like used cars; except for the mothball fleets, you do not have ships just sitting at the dock for you to examine and buy. Even the cheapest derelict out of WWII is going to cost a couple of million dollars to buy, and there are enough small shipping companies out there that the only reason a working ship is still docked is that it is desperately in need of repair, in a mothball fleet, or judged as scrap.

There are six mothball fleets, one at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, another at Bremerton Washington. One in San Francisco Bay, another in Mobile Alabama, Two more, one in Philadelphia Harbor, the last in Boston. So let's say you've started on refurbishing these ships. It isn't going to be immediate, these ships has rested since WWII and you have to open the shells, check what needs replacement, and fix them. Assuming a full wartime emergency General Haskins of The Third Word War fame said it would take a week to ten days to refurbish each group assuming every effort is used. Your own army would not be able to force this or speed it up, but it doesn't matter.

The only question is how I, as the opponent would stop you? While you have conquered the nation, the 'wet' navy has not given up. The US has seven fleets with carriers supported by surface warships; one in the Med, one on the Indian Ocean Station, two on the Atlantic coast, three in the Pacific. Both third and seventh fleets (Pacific) can hit the West Coast and Hawaii, First and Fourth (Atlantic) can hit the East. They do so.

Alpha strikes (Full assaults) hit Boston and Philadelphia, on the east coast, Two more alpha strikes hit San Francisco and Bremerton. All within less than five hours. A modern Nimitz class carrier (As portrayed in the Final Countdown) could duplicate what it took six WWII carriers to do in WWII. It could destroy the entire WWII Pacific fleet by itself. In each harbor, it devastates the mothball fleets plus every functioning ship and every shipyard. The only two remaining are Mobile and Pearl. While your army is working to move the ships somewhere safe, six hours after the first bomb dropped on San Francisco, the first bomb of Alpha Strike II is dropping on Pearl Harbor. Five hours later the Mobile mothball fleet is being blown to hell.

This is not hyperbole, a carrier stationed fifty miles west of Los Angeles can strike San Francisco 400 miles north, Bremerton 1000 miles north or as far East as St Louis. It could also attack Pearl Harbor without moving. Not all at the same time, but in sequence. Two Carriers (7th and 3rd fleets in the Pacific historically) can do this. 1st and 4th fleets (Atlantic) could do the same in the Atlantic. The only reason for the delay for destroying Mobile in because after their first strikes, the fleets would have to steam south then west into the Caribbean. One fleet could launch a second alpha strike while the aircraft from the other used what is called 'hot decking'; They fly from their carrier, fully loaded, land on the second carrier, load fuel then launch again. The first strike hits, returns to their carrier, then, instead of staying there, flies to the other carrier after only loading fuel so the second strike returns to the first carrier. They have already destroyed you ability to expand beyond the Western Hemisphere, they just have to play 'musical strike groups' to get the proper aircraft back where they belong.

In the Star Wars universe, I could just use something postulated back in the 70s here but never deployed. So on a world called Yurth, their military unveils this weapon.

As your army starts to refurbish one of the fleets, suddenly hell reigns.

It's called Tactical High Orbital Response, or THOR. Really all it is is satellites with a hundred kinetic energy weaons, nothing more than a hundred one hundred pound steel crowbars. They orbit between 300 and 1000 mile above the planet, with the aiming system using the Keyhole satellites in geosynchronous orbit. It is so simple that Reagan's Star Wars initiative ignored it. An artillery system using simple Newtonian physics to deliver hell.

So as satellite A rotates into position it's payload is de-orbited. No explosives, no armor piercing sheathing or shaped charge warhead. With the gravity of the planet behind it, the 'crowbars' don't need it. Only orbital mechanics, gravity, and mass. As they paraphrased in the Treasure of the Sierra Madre, 'we don't need no stinking payload'. Each 'crowbar' has a rudimentary targeting system, and is aimed at less than 50 targets. Within an hour, these destroy the ships your army already has, and less than an hour later every shipyard joins them.

Yet the constellation imagined back in the 70s is not expended. In fact less than 5 % has been used. Your Army cannot interfere, and the defeated are still fighting back.

I submit that the army you postulate would be trapped on the planets it sprang from, never able to escape it by simple orbital mechanics.

'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
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