What trend in the gaming industry do you find the most troubling?

[Lynk Former]

I know, I'm just pointing out the fact that people think that these companies exist purely for them, as if these organisations were created for the very sole purpose of making a game just for *points at someone very specifically* YOU!

But it wasn't an attack on you, chainz... just an observation about gamers in general who can't understand why video game developers want to make money.

[ChAiNz.2da]

Originally Posted by Lynk Former

I know, I'm just pointing out the fact that people think that these companies exist purely for them, as if these organisations were created for the very sole purpose of making a game just for *points at someone very specifically* YOU!

But it wasn't an attack on you, chainz... just an observation about gamers in general who can't understand why video game developers want to make money.

No worries man, just was confused. Wanted to confirm that I was agreeing with ya

[Alexrd]

Originally Posted by Lynk Former

But it wasn't an attack on you, chainz... just an observation about gamers in general who can't understand why video game developers want to make money.

Gamers understand why devs (or should I say, publishers) want to make money. What they are fighting against is the wrong preconception some have against PC gaming. At least I do.

When people say consoles sell more than PC, what exactly are they saying? That 3 different plataforms sell more than one?

[Lynk Former]

Originally Posted by Alexrd

Gamers understand why devs (or should I say, publishers) want to make money. What they are fighting against is the wrong preconception some have against PC gaming. At least I do.

When people say consoles sell more than PC, what exactly are they saying? That 3 different plataforms sell more than one?

I was going to write up a huge post about this but it's easier on all of us just to do dot points...

- You mean 2 consoles, can't count Wii in this since it's not on par with the PS3 and 360.

- PCs are not standardised like consoles are, every PC is different and it takes a lot more time/money/effort for developers to make PC games because of this.

- Console gaming population is huge and still growing and tend to spend A LOT more money than PC gamers do.

- Developers have more control over their games on consoles. Developers/publishers try to exercise this on PC by the way of DRM... which isn't very popular.

- The majority of consumers want accessibility in their games. Insert disc, push start... start playing. Easy. Consoles do this, PC doesn't... developers know this.





...now what I want to know is what are these "wrong preconceptions" developers have of the entire PC gaming platform? I mean, a lot of them have been developing PC games for a long time before they started to trend to consoles. Obviously something is happening that is making them do that... but if they're wrong for doing it, why?

[Alexrd]

Originally Posted by Lynk Former

now what I want to know is what are these "wrong preconceptions" developers have of the entire PC gaming platform?

That PC doesn't sell, that DRM protects their games, that piracy affects the sales hugely, etc... Do you really think that if they release a PC version of a game, that they won't have any profit (i.e: doesn't cover the expenses)? Look at The Witcher 2, for example.

I don't mind to wait a year or so for a PC version (we usually get all the DLC). In fact, I understand them when they do that. But giving some poor excuses to not release the game on PC is just stupid. I believe PC sells as much as a single console (if not more).

[Lynk Former]

I don't think developers/publishers think they WON'T profit from PC games... it's just that most of them think they will get more profits from console games...

- PC games do sell... just not as quickly or as much as most console games unless it can do something a console just cannot... like TOR.

- DRM does protect their games, the more passive methods consoles and Steam employs seems to be pretty acceptable to a lot of people... but as you know, PC gamers draw a line and boycott games if it passes that line (see Mass Effect 3 on Origin).

- Piracy does have an affect, don't think it doesn't. We all do it but don't start thinking there is no affect.

You may have your beliefs but these companies have sales data on their games that seem to suggest that releasing games on a console is more profitable for them than on PC.

I'm not saying that we should like it, but they're not doing this out of some kind of malice or evil plan to take over the world or whatever personal attacks a lot of people feel PC developers are making against them. It's just business... it's the same reason why Nintendo of America didn't want to release Xenoblade, The Last Story and Pandora's Tower in the US... of course that's all fixed now since the success of those games in the EU and AU have changed their minds.

[Alexrd]

Originally Posted by Lynk Former

I don't think developers/publishers think they WON'T profit from PC games... it's just that most of them think they will get more profits from console games...

I know. But then isn't it legitimate to ask for a PC version (even if it's released later on)? They have got "nothing" to loose.

Originally Posted by Lynk Former

- PC games do sell... just not as quickly or as much as most console games unless it can do something a console just cannot... like TOR.

I don't argue that.

Originally Posted by Lynk Former

- DRM does protect their games, the more passive methods consoles and Steam employs seems to be pretty acceptable to a lot of people... but as you know, PC gamers draw a line and boycott games if it passes that line (see Mass Effect 3 on Origin).

How exactly does DRM protect their games? DRM is cracked mostly before or on the day the game is released. And in the end, the legitimate consumers are the ones who have to deal with it, while the pirates play the "normal version". Is it really worth it? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Lynk Former

- Piracy does have an affect, don't think it doesn't. We all do it but don't start thinking there is no affect.

"Hugely" is the key word.

Originally Posted by Lynk Former

You may have your beliefs but these companies have sales data on their games that seem to suggest that releasing games on a console is more profitable for them than on PC.

On the short run, yes. And as I said, I understand why they want to focus more on the consoles. I only think PC shouldn't be ignored either. And no, they are not charity organizations, but that doesn't make the plea any less valid.

[Lynk Former]

How does DRM protect games? It doesn't, but it makes the investors of companies feel more secure of their investments.

I don't think any gaming platform should be ignored either but PC developers aren't ignoring the PC. PC games are being released, it's just that they don't take priority over the console versions since the console versions are seen as being more profitable.

However, if you're wondering why certain developers who have always made console games aren't making PC games... it's because they have 0 experience making PC games added on to the fact that they see consoles as being more profitable and secure than the PC platform as a whole.


EDIT: Also, piracy is a huge factor,.. after all, if it had no effect we wouldn't have DRM. The very idea that a company may lose a scrap of profit has made them react to piracy. That's a pretty huge effect, I'd say.

[Mav]

I'm not voting until "**** DLC" is added to the poll and no I'm not going to pick Yoda because I'm pretty tired of that "trend" too.

[mimartin]

Happy now Mav? Well I didn't remove Yoda, but I did add DLC.

Have to keep Mav happy, he is the reason I got to 400 in biochem in TOR.

[Lynk Former]

Admin edited one vote down for me in DLC... it's soooo stupid.

"Let's make an incomplete game! Yeah, people will love that and then we'll get them to pay more for parts of the game we release after launch!"




Also, just to finish off the console thing. Consoles make more money for developer/publishers faster. There really isn't any thought of the long term in this, rather, how much money they can make the quickest to please investors who want high returns quickly. It sucks, but unfortunately that's just the way things go in this business. Of course, through all of this no one has mentioned all of the good things PC gamers get that console gamers don't get... which I find interesting.

[mimartin]

Originally Posted by Lynk Former

Of course, through all of this no one has mentioned all of the good things PC gamers get that console gamers don't get... which I find interesting.

Can't speak for all console gamers, but I've been known to buy games for both the console and the PC if the game has more good things for the PC gamers. That is if it isn't mucked up with spyware. I own both ME and ME2 for both the 360 and the PC, ME3 I will only get for the 360.

[Working Class Hero]

Online activation will make me refuse to buy. Games like Civ 5 have no business requiring steam.

[Sabretooth]

Originally Posted by Alexrd

How exactly does DRM protect their games? DRM is cracked mostly before or on the day the game is released. And in the end, the legitimate consumers are the ones who have to deal with it, while the pirates play the "normal version". Is it really worth it? I don't think so.

As a representative of the Pirate Worker's Union, I'll have you know that pirates do not play any "normal" version. The pirated versions of modern game have to be manually patched, and that is IF a pirate group is kind enough to put up a game's update on the Internet. In 98% of games, there is also no multiplayer on pirated games. A Call of Duty or a Battlefield game could hardly be called "normal" without its multiplayer.

DRM helps protect games. It isn't the company's fault that the DRM ends up cracked by talented pirates. Piracy is a major concern for video game companies and while they can't shoot lawsuits at every torrent site like MPAA, they try to make sure they're trying their level best at the product-end.

Originally Posted by Alexrd

On the short run, yes. And as I said, I understand why they want to focus more on the consoles. I only think PC shouldn't be ignored either. And no, they are not charity organizations, but that doesn't make the plea any less valid.

Major companies maybe, but there is actually a very, very large mass of indie games that get released for the PC. Especially thanks to distribution models like Steam, where pretty much anyone with a good game on their hands can get the same platform as Valve or Activision (except in marketing). Then there's companies dedicated to the PC, like Paradox Interactive, who profess to making games that hearken back to the 90s.

[Lynk Former]

And that's one of the good things about PC gaming as a platform... the fact that it allows smaller and indie developers to do their thing.

[Alexrd]

Originally Posted by Sabretooth

DRM helps protect games. It isn't the company's fault that the DRM ends up cracked by talented pirates.

Well, it certainly isn't the legitimate consumer's fault that pirates crack their games. And yet they are the ones who have to deal with DRM every time they want to play the game.

Originally Posted by Sabretooth

Piracy is a major concern for video game companies and while they can't shoot lawsuits at every torrent site like MPAA, they try to make sure they're trying their level best at the product-end.

I agree that companies should try to protect their products, but not at the expense of legit consumers. In fact, these should be the priority, not the pirates.

Why does a company obliges someone to have an internet access (which is paid), to install a software that doesn't benefit the game, to create an account of said software, login every time they want to play the game, all in order to finally the person who paid the game can enjoy the product (s)he paid for? All this for a single player game like Skyrim and many others. In the end, the pirates are the one who get the "DRM free version", and the consumers are left to deal with all this crap.

[Red Hessian]

Originally Posted by mimartin

What trend in the gaming industry do you find the most troubling?

1. Online activation and online requirement to play (DRM). 3rd party requirement (Steam to play Skyrim or Origin to play Mass Effect 3).

2. Along the same lines. Digital distribution the move towards no longer having a physical copy and only being able to purchase the game from certain digital distributors (exp Origin)

3. Streamlining games in an attempt to make them more attractive to a wider audience.

4. More and more games being made with consoles in mind and PC just being a ported after thought.

5. More games trying to add multiplayer/co-op

How about: "6. All of the above"?

What happened to the days when you could just go to a store, buy the game on a CD/DVD, install it quick and easy, and play to your heart's content without being angry with the poor consol porting and not worrying if you'll have the money for the multitude of DLC's already announced by the time the game was released...

[mimartin]

Originally Posted by Red Hessian

How about: "6. All of the above"?

Nope, because the question is "What trend in the gaming industry do you find the most troubling", not Do you find these trends in the gaming industry troubling. In that case the "All of the above" would be a valid option, but I wanted to know which one everyone found the most troubling, not if they found them all troubling.