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Thread: KOTOR 2 Storyline questions [SPOILERS]
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:50 PM   #81
JCarter426
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Originally Posted by Rtas Vadum View Post
I don't know if she will say it for sure every time(especially if you spare Atris), but Kreia(or at least, the impression of her in the holocrons), mentions...

"One of the Sith Lords has come to Telos. You know why he has come here. And if he is not stopped, here, now, then he shall lay waste to the planet."

That could mean Sion, but it's lilely Sion would only be after Jedi, and would not concern himself with the station. Which leaves only Nihilus, who is obviously more likely to lay waste to the planet, given what the Exile would know of Katar.
That happens after you've already gone to Telos in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Rtas Vadum View Post
Where else would it be? It might be suspect at that point, but in some ways, where else would Nihilus choose to attack? As far as the game itself goes, you only hear about Katar, and that's it. He hasn't went after anywhere else, to to anything similar. So he obviously had the need to quell his hunger, along with needing a place to do so. How exactly he would've heard about Telos(beyond Tobin specifically telling him), I can't say, but it's either that Kreia actually tells Tobin the information regardless of who the Exile sides with, or...well else I don't know.
Kreia only tells the Exile the Sith are even going to attack at all in the dark side version. Obviously the Sith have been destroying worlds and such, but the line suggests a certain, imminent attack, and there really isn't any evidence for it.
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Originally Posted by arsenalforever View Post
And how did the Ebon Hawk even reach the Academy? I thought the codes were only with the Handmaiden?
I think the codes are part of a cut subplot, like the HK factory; best ignore the whole thing. And I agree Atris probably wanted the Exile to come to her anyway.
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If we side with the Queen on Onderon, there is a cut scene of Kreia telling Colonel Tobin to tell Nihilus to attack Telos and that there is a Jedi Academy there, but if we side with General Vaklu, who tells Nihilus to attack Telos? And why would Kreia want Nihilus to attack Telos?
The scene isn't in the game at all, it was cut. So I don't get your question.
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Nihilus could not sense the Jedi Council meeting on Dantooine (when they tried to strip the Exile of the Force) because it was difficult to sense Force Sensitives on such worlds, then does that make Telos any different?
In all likeliness, yes. Kreia describes it as "a place hidden from the galaxy, like the academy on Dantooine" and calls Atris clever for choosing it.
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And when Atris asks Kreia who she is, Kreia says "I am the one who ordered him to be exiled". Is this true?
That was also cut from the game. I believe it was cut for a reason, rather than due to time constraints like many of the other cuts; Avellone has admitted they went through several different drafts of the story and removed things they didn't feel were working. Kreia and Atris were completely different characters, originally.
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It was the loss of lives that left a wound in the Force, not the severance of ties by the Exile.
Wounds happen all the time, it's how you react to them that matters. The Exile chose to sever their connection to the Force, rather than succumb to the wound's corrupting power. It may have been a subconscious choice, but it was still a choice. Kreia sees it as the Exile choosing to retain his/her identity rather than become a pawn of the dark side. A light sided Exile chose to turn away from the force out of fear of what the dark side would do to him/her, and a dark sided Exile had no choice but to give up his/her power in the same way the ancient Sith Lords chose not to develop Nihilus' hunger.
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Atris also says: "These Sith are spawned of you, spawned of the Mandalorian Wars... all those deaths, all those Jedi"

So the Sith DID learn those techniques from the Exile?
Atris blames the Exile for everything that happened in the Mandalorian Wars. And she's right to some extent; had the Exile not entered the war, the course of events would have turned in a different direction. That doesn't mean the Exile is personally responsible for everything that happened, though. Even if the Exile is - indirectly - responsible for creating the wound at Malachor, the wound that Nihilus and the other Sith feed on, to blame the Exile for everything they do with that power is still not fair. The Exile could have done the same thing, but chose not to.
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Atris said that Kreia was waiting at Malachor for the Exile, where she intended to create another echo that would deafen and kill all Force Sensitives. I wanted to ask, that how she intended to trigger another echo? By making the Exile kill her at the heart of Malachor? Then she succeeded didn't she?
No, by then she just wanted the Exile to kill her to succeed her; the master must kill the apprentice.
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In order to kill these Force sensitives, an echo of a magnitude similar to the one created by the Exile at Malachor must be triggered, and Kreia thought that the magnitude of the echoes created due to her death at the hands of the Exile at Malachor would be enough to kill the Force Sensitives? Surely not?
No, I don't believe so. Her death might have been necessary for the sealing of the wound at Malachor, but I don't believe it was ever part of her plan for destroying the Force.
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And Atris said that if the Exile did not follow her to Malachor, she will kill herself, resulting in the death of the Exile as well. Did she mean this or was it another one of her lies? I think she was speaking the truth, because if she killed herself on Malachor, the Exile would be caught unprepared and would die of the pain too (like on Dantooine (dark side version))
Who knows? Kreia's obviously a hypocrite and a liar, but what she does takes some serious guts. Would she kill herself just to prove a point? Wouldn't surprise me.
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Well Kreia said that if echoes like the one the Exile created were created in succession, it would lead to the death of all Force sensitives. But I think the magnitude of these echoes are not all the same.

Obviously, the magnitude of the echo created by the activation of the MSG is much larger than ones created by small acts of charity or cruelty.
"From the smallest of actions, the smallest of cruelties and kindnesses, great tragedies are made."
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If she wants to kill Force Sensitives, she would have to come up with a better plan that would create echoes of a larger magnitude right? If she wanted echoes, she could've just let Nihilus consume Telos lol
That uh... that was the plan. The fate of the Republic depends on Telos. The fate of the galaxy depends on the Republic.

But I don't think she really had a plan to destroy the Force. The galaxy isn't ready to give up the Force, and there's nothing she can do about it. Hell, even Kreia couldn't give up the Force. But she can help the only person who has made the choice to do so. Perhaps it's just that - a choice. You can't force it upon anyone, let alone the whole galaxy. And perhaps the galaxy will choose to give up the Force due to the Exile's influence. Someday.



Last edited by JCarter426; 06-18-2012 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:22 AM   #82
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Even if the Exile is - indirectly - responsible for creating the wound at Malachor, the wound that Nihilus and the other Sith feed on, to blame the Exile for everything they do with that power is still not fair. The Exile could have done the same thing, but chose not to.
Nihilus and the Sith feed on Force sensitives, not the wound created by the Exile right? They themselves are wounds.


Her death WAS a part of her plans to end the Force right? She wanted the Exile to kill her, which would send out echoes (whether this plan was a sound one or not is a different matter).

Quote:
Her death might have been necessary for the sealing of the wound at Malachor, but I don't believe it was ever part of her plan for destroying the Force.
Why would HER death seal the wound at Malachor? She has nothing to do with Malachor right? It's the Exile who's related to Malachor. And it is the destruction of Malachor that sealed the wound, not Kreia's death right?
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:42 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by arsenalforever View Post
Nihilus and the Sith feed on Force sensitives, not the wound created by the Exile right? They themselves are wounds.
I only meant it in the metaphorical sense. They learned their power to feed on Jedi from the wound.
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Her death WAS a part of her plans to end the Force right? She wanted the Exile to kill her, which would send out echoes (whether this plan was a sound one or not is a different matter).
No, I don't believe so. I believe she wanted the Exile to kill her because she views that as an apprentice's final test. Even if she wants to kill the Force, Kreia believes in the Sith teachings to some extent. It's also a bit of an ego trip, as it's the goal of any teacher for their student to surpass them; when you're someone who can kill people with your brain, killing you is the only possible proof. Twisted, I know.
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Why would HER death seal the wound at Malachor? She has nothing to do with Malachor right? It's the Exile who's related to Malachor.
She was Darth Traya once. She was the headmistress of the Trayus Academy. She taught Sion and Nihlius there. She taught Revan, who designed the wound there, the wound that corrupted all his followers. She's very much connected to Malachor.
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And it is the destruction of Malachor that sealed the wound, not Kreia's death right?
Well no... mainly it's the Exile facing Malachor. The destruction might be a part of it as a final act to completely wipe out the memory of what happened there, to forget the past and look to the future. But Kreia's death serves the same purpose, on a more personal level.


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Old 06-19-2012, 08:50 AM   #84
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Kreia says " I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve so measure of balance, when countless lives are lost"

What does this mean?

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Yes, but with her goal of getting rid of the force, she teaches her student to use it. Perhaps it does go along with her ideal of using the force like a poison, but given that the Exile would rely heavily on the force, it should be obvious to anyone that the Exile would fight against such a goal, dark or light.
But the Exile does not rely heavily on the Force? If he did, he wouldn't have been able to sever his connection?
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:03 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by arsenalforever View Post
Kreia says " I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve so measure of balance, when countless lives are lost"

What does this mean?
Well, what is Star Wars about? Wars. IN SPACE. With Jedi. For thousands of years, powerful Force users have fought each other in horrible wars on a galactic scale. The Jedi claim the Force controls everything, that it's trying to reach a balance.

The Force must be a real ****, surely.

I also think that Kreia doesn't like the idea of being manipulated in any way, since she takes pride in her ability to manipulate others. But the Force uses everyone. If you believe in an energy field that connects everyone, and controls their destinies, it can seem like the universe is conspiring against you. In a sense, everyone in the galaxy is manipulating Kreia! Must drive her wacko.


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Old 08-16-2013, 07:55 AM   #86
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Hello
I have a question ... I read somewhere that when you return to meet with the Jedi Masters on Dantooine , if you killed 2 of them and remain only one there is another plot then if you killed all ore none , it is true?

What happen if there are 2 of them, same like 3 I suspect.

I played TSL many times but this option(remain only 1 jedi master) did not crossed my mind ...


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Old 08-16-2013, 12:33 PM   #87
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The storyline of TSL never fails to disappoint me. Just finished another DS playthrough and it's such an incredible journey. The Death of the Force; mind=blown. Just the sheer depth of Kreia's lectures and endless possibilities have me coming back for more. Man KotOR III would have been so flippin good.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:06 PM   #88
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Somewhere I read that Kreia was Chris Avellone's attempt to flesh out his "beefs" with the Star Wars universe. Am I insane? Was this only a figment of my imagination? If not, where can I read this [article] again?

Also, if you're a Dark Side Exile and you choose to remain on Malachor V, letting the planet remain intact, then what? Do you keep on trying to feed off of Force Sensitives and the galaxy? Do you continue your attempts to wound the Force and make more echoes? With the Sith Triumvirate dead, who can possibly defeat you in these goals?

You're shown hurling Kreia's dead body into the Trayus Core in the Dark Side ending, but what happens to her corpse if you're Light Side? Do you carry it with you on the Ebon Hawk so you can give her a proper burial on some other planet, or cremate her instead?

One more question: What happens to Kreia's soul after she dies? Jedi become one with the Force, as Vader did at the end of "Return of the Jedi", but what of her? Is she simply extinguished, so that she can't ever come back as a Force ghost?

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Old 08-21-2013, 12:28 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by MsFicwriter View Post
Somewhere I read that Kreia was Chris Avellone's attempt to flesh out his "beefs" with the Star Wars universe. Am I insane? Was this only a figment of my imagination? If not, where can I read this [article] again?
No, she represented the Anti-Jedi. Basically, she showed how the world in star wars shouldn't/isn't as black and white as the sith and jedi make it to look. Avellone used her to create a more dynamic Dark Side/Light side dichotomy.

Quote:
Also, if you're a Dark Side Exile and you choose to remain on Malachor V, letting the planet remain intact, then what? Do you keep on trying to feed off of Force Sensitives and the galaxy? Do you continue your attempts to wound the Force and make more echoes? With the Sith Triumvirate dead, who can possibly defeat you in these goals?
Presumably you're awaiting the arrival of the true sith. That ending wasn't exactly well thought out and we just assume it's out to our imaginations

Quote:
You're shown hurling Kreia's dead body into the Trayus Core in the Dark Side ending, but what happens to her corpse if you're Light Side? Do you carry it with you on the Ebon Hawk so you can give her a proper burial on some other planet, or cremate her instead?
No, her death was cut due to time constraints. In both endings she died by falling into the core
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:49 PM   #90
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I have a few questions about Visas Marr:

1. Out of all the Miraluka on Katarr that Darth Nihilus slaughtered, why did he choose Visas as his apprentice? Was her ability to "see" through the Force more keen than those of her people?

2. If Visas remains on the Dark Side of the Force, Kreia says after her defeat: "The blind one shall return to her home planet, and see what she was meant to see." What does this mean? What was Visas meant to see if she stayed on the path of revenge and hatred?

3. I know that Kreia is definitely not a fan of any of the Exile's companions, but as for Visas, I don't quite understand why our favorite "teacher" dislikes her. Sure, she has ties to Nihilus, but is that the only reason Kreia's wary of her?
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:41 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Tharr View Post
Hello
I have a question ... I read somewhere that when you return to meet with the Jedi Masters on Dantooine , if you killed 2 of them and remain only one there is another plot then if you killed all ore none , it is true?

What happen if there are 2 of them, same like 3 I suspect.

I played TSL many times but this option(remain only 1 jedi master) did not crossed my mind ...
During one of my playthroughs of this game, I killed Zez and Vrook, but let Kavar live.

Intrestingly enough, when I arrived at Dantooine Kavar immediately spoke of my betrial to the Jedi and attacked me. No conversation was available.

Hope I helped.


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Old 08-22-2013, 05:09 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFicwriter View Post
I have a few questions about Visas Marr:

1. Out of all the Miraluka on Katarr that Darth Nihilus slaughtered, why did he choose Visas as his apprentice? Was her ability to "see" through the Force more keen than those of her people?
I'd imagine that it's a similar situation to the Exile and Kreia, in that a bond was forged between the two, likely when he walked on the planet's surface(if that image on her wiki page is true). Although the reason he would've done so, is because he likely saw a flicker of life on a dead world, and was curious.

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2. If Visas remains on the Dark Side of the Force, Kreia says after her defeat: "The blind one shall return to her home planet, and see what she was meant to see." What does this mean? What was Visas meant to see if she stayed on the path of revenge and hatred?
Depends on if you mean in Nihilus' view, or her view after she travels with a DS Exile. Considering Nihilus, it would've been her simply believing to the end, as he did. Perhaps in some respects she already did(and in a way still does just after she joins the party), but to the point were she would see no more than a dead world, and believe things are as they should be. As for her views after traveling with a DS exile, she might not see things that differently, save for the fact that she would stand on the sight of tragedy, knowing that, at least as much as could be done, she has taken revenge on the one responsible - even if she didn't land the killing blow herself.

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Originally Posted by MsFicwriter View Post
3. I know that Kreia is definitely not a fan of any of the Exile's companions, but as for Visas, I don't quite understand why our favorite "teacher" dislikes her. Sure, she has ties to Nihilus, but is that the only reason Kreia's wary of her?
Presumably because she is the only other that has come close to "seeing" in the same manner as Kreia and the Exile. But where the exile can be manipulated, as can some of the other party members, Visas, as it seems, might understand how to resist it. And thus, it comes down to her not liking the fact that it is someone that she cannot manipulate. Plus, unlike the Exile, who doesn't see the truth about Kreia until late in the game, Visas is likely aware on some level. After all, she is the one who confronts Kreia after the Enclave scene.

Here is an interesting thought - the Character menu is how the Exile sees the party. For most, it likely provides the truth. But for Kreia? It lies. Or that is how the Exile is forced to see her.

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