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Old 06-29-2012, 01:11 AM   #1641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
Mass Effect may be a b-grade sci-fi movie trilogy, but it's a b-grade trilogy you can be part of. I think that's the reason for ME's success, as opposed to any spectacular quality of writing. It's the emotional engagement of the player with the characters, which Bioware does so well. In this regard, imo it's 'the journey that's more important than the destination' (ie, the playing of the game as opposed to the actual ending), and it's for this reason that I personally will be likely to play these games again.
So then essentially it's no different from any other game.

Usually I'd agree with you, but the ending is such nonsense that it ruined the journey (especially any subsequent journeys) too. I was prepared for multiple runs of the trilogy before I witnessed the ME3 ending leaks... however, now I'm of the opinion that once around is all the series deserves from me.

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Old 06-29-2012, 03:20 AM   #1642
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So then essentially it's no different from any other game.
Well, yes. I don't think I implied otherwise. But if there were a distinguishing element of ME that set it apart from other games, I'd say it's Bioware's aforementioned style of emotional engagement. Gamers just can't seem to get over engaging with game-worlds on an interpersonal level (as evidenced by Bioware's extreme success with it's RPG's.. even though the structure of most of those games are almost exactly the same..)

Quote:
Usually I'd agree with you, but the ending is such nonsense that it ruined the journey (especially any subsequent journeys) too. I was prepared for multiple runs of the trilogy before I witnessed the ME3 ending leaks... however, now I'm of the opinion that once around is all the series deserves from me.
Fair enough. BW did imply that they'd implement an unprecedented level of choice-outcome/storyline permutation complexity. It's quite apparent they didn't deliver. (Though as I've said before, I never took those statements seriously - it just sounded like standard [meaningless] marketing blurb to me).


On another note, Is anyone playing the multiplayer?

I've never really liked first-person shooters, but preferred third-person ones. Mass Effect 3's is the first third-person shooter multiplayer I've played, and I gotta say, I'm getting a serious kick out of it. I love it!

What really surprised me is that the MP feels just like the SP. Sure, things have been tweaked a little, but for the most part, the weapons, powers, and gameplay feel just like the SP. I don't know if this is to be expected of a game with SP and MP (I don't have much experience with MP's), but for some reason, I expected the MP to feel quite different. (I'm glad that I was wrong.)



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:11 AM   #1643
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Originally Posted by Lynk Former View Post
Usually I'd agree with you, but the ending is such nonsense that it ruined the journey (especially any subsequent journeys) too. I was prepared for multiple runs of the trilogy before I witnessed the ME3 ending leaks... however, now I'm of the opinion that once around is all the series deserves from me.
I agree with you, but I just treat the endings (and the whole ME3, in fact) like parts of the Expanded Universe in Star Wars: completely ignore it. For me the series ended with the destruction of the Collector base. Period. I can replay ME & ME2 to my heart's content, and even if I wanted to play ME3, I can't because I returned it two months ago.

You should try it, it's very cathartic. Haven't felt better since I refunded Dragon Age 2.
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:36 AM   #1644
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Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
Well, yes. I don't think I implied otherwise. But if there were a distinguishing element of ME that set it apart from other games, I'd say it's Bioware's aforementioned style of emotional engagement. Gamers just can't seem to get over engaging with game-worlds on an interpersonal level (as evidenced by Bioware's extreme success with it's RPG's.. even though the structure of most of those games are almost exactly the same..)
I've played quite a lot of other games... what BioWare has isn't unique, but like I said before, they have successfully followed the formula of creating a game that is also a b-grade sci-fi movie series.


Quote:
Fair enough. BW did imply that they'd implement an unprecedented level of choice-outcome/storyline permutation complexity. It's quite apparent they didn't deliver. (Though as I've said before, I never took those statements seriously - it just sounded like standard [meaningless] marketing blurb to me).
Don't promise it if you can't deliver. It's just as disappointing as when Nintendo said how the Wii Remotes motion controls would do this, this and this. They only just STARTED delivering what they promised with Skyward Sword but it was too little, too late.




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I agree with you, but I just treat the endings (and the whole ME3, in fact) like parts of the Expanded Universe in Star Wars: completely ignore it. For me the series ended with the destruction of the Collector base. Period. I can replay ME & ME2 to my heart's content, and even if I wanted to play ME3, I can't because I returned it two months ago.

You should try it, it's very cathartic. Haven't felt better since I refunded Dragon Age 2.
Heh, that'd be even better actually. Like one of those oldskool sci-fi shows where a rocket hits the earth and it's half way blowing up at the end of the show with the announcer saying "Will the Earth survive this brutal attack?! FIND OUT NEXT TIME!" and they never make another episode.

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Old 06-29-2012, 11:56 AM   #1645
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Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
In my mind, a plothole exists in that in the Arrival DLC,
You can't base the ending of the whole trilogy on something that might happen in the Arrival DLC though, since Shepard's participation in the Arrival scenario is optional. If you didn't play the DLC a squad of marines sent by Hackett carried out the mission instead in ME3 (getting wiped out in the process).


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Do you know what happened to Saren Arterius and Jack Harper After being electrocuted by a Reaper artifact?
Going by what is said and mentioned in the games (and not any comics and novels), both these gentlemen also spent several months in close proximity to a Reaper (Inside Sovereign, and just upstairs from the embryo). Indoctrination is not a quick process, it is mentioned that it takes weeks or months to do properly. There is a Quick Indoctrination option as well, but using that the victim goes insane within a few days so it's not really an option for sleepers and long-term operatives, or a Shepard that seemingly remains herself 6 months later.

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...like piles of bodies appearing out of nowhere around the conduit?
The conduit (if you mean the beam up to the Citadel) was a transporter beam meant to move organic material up to the Citadel for processing for use in Reaper construction. Thus it's not unreasonable IMO that husks etc continue to shovel up bodies, especially since a fair number of them just were produced nearby with the failed rush attack.

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That's why I found it reasonable to postulate that it wasn't an attack beam, but an "Indoctrination Beam".
There is no such thing in established lore. See above.

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Old 06-29-2012, 04:52 PM   #1646
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Originally Posted by stoffe View Post
The conduit (if you mean the beam up to the Citadel) was a transporter beam meant to move organic material up to the Citadel for processing for use in Reaper construction. Thus it's not unreasonable IMO that husks etc continue to shovel up bodies, especially since a fair number of them just were produced nearby with the failed rush attack.
The bodies aren't there before Shepard is knocked unconscious. And they are al the same bodies over and over again. Ashley and Kaidan. Ashley is more obvious because of the Pink and White phoenix armour we see nowhere else in the trilogy. Evidence that it's a dream, because Shepard is guilty about Virmire.
A company that doesn't have time on their side wouldn't add this if it wasn't deliberate.


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Old 06-29-2012, 05:49 PM   #1647
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A company that doesn't have time on their side reuses assets because it's cheaper and quicker to do so.

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Old 06-29-2012, 10:30 PM   #1648
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It's less about time and more about the hardware restrictions of the consoles.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:46 PM   #1649
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It's less about hardware restrictions of the consoles and more about whoever it was who was in charge of that particular part of ME3 deciding it'd be funny to have a bunch of dead Ashley's and Kaiden's laying around.

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Old 06-29-2012, 11:53 PM   #1650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taak Farst View Post
The bodies aren't there before Shepard is knocked unconscious. And they are al the same bodies over and over again. Ashley and Kaidan. Ashley is more obvious because of the Pink and White phoenix armour we see nowhere else in the trilogy. Evidence that it's a dream, because Shepard is guilty about Virmire.
A company that doesn't have time on their side wouldn't add this if it wasn't deliberate.
The husks you have to fight when Shepard drags herself into the beam wasn't there before you got knocked out either. They might be responsible for gathering up the bodies for beam transport.

As for re-using art assets, I doubt it was very high priority to give each individual corpse, that most players won't even notice, a unique appearance. Generic corpses are copypaste throughout the trilogy.

As for the white and pink armor (that Ashley isn't wearing in ME3 any more), I doubt the Systems Alliance would give each lowly infantrymen guarding backwater colonies unique and customized armor. Thus it would stand to reason that her armor was standard issue for SA troops of her rank and function, and that thus a lot more of those would be present on an Earth under attack.

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Old 06-30-2012, 12:17 AM   #1651
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It's less about hardware restrictions of the consoles and more about whoever it was who was in charge of that particular part of ME3 deciding it'd be funny to have a bunch of dead Ashley's and Kaiden's laying around.
I never saw any Ashley and/or Kaidan corpses myself. I was talking about the generic corpse piles. The reason they all look the same is to cut down overhead. The thing the consoles are very short on is memory, so you get a lot of mileage by reusing textures. Hence why the corpses all the look the same.
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:19 AM   #1652
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I wasn't replying seriously.

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Old 06-30-2012, 03:15 AM   #1653
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:47 AM   #1654
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Don't promise it if you can't deliver. It's just as disappointing as when Nintendo said how the Wii Remotes motion controls would do this, this and this. They only just STARTED delivering what they promised with Skyward Sword but it was too little, too late.
Found this relevant quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Hudson in Pre ME3 Release interview with gameinformer
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”


All I can say is wow. I see where you're coming from.

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You can't base the ending of the whole trilogy on something that might happen in the Arrival DLC though, since Shepard's participation in the Arrival scenario is optional. If you didn't play the DLC a squad of marines sent by Hackett carried out the mission instead in ME3 (getting wiped out in the process).
A logical opinion.
It's just that contact with a reaper artifact as shown in Arrival is *exactly* what would be required to cause the kind of IT-proposed indoctrination attempt effects in ME3.


Quote:
Going by what is said and mentioned in the games (and not any comics and novels), both these gentlemen also spent several months in close proximity to a Reaper (Inside Sovereign, and just upstairs from the embryo). Indoctrination is not a quick process, it is mentioned that it takes weeks or months to do properly. There is a Quick Indoctrination option as well, but using that the victim goes insane within a few days so it's not really an option for sleepers and long-term operatives, or a Shepard that seemingly remains herself 6 months later.
Yes, what happened to Saren and TIM was not instant (I should have been clearer), but the point is that it started with close, indirect contact with a reaper artifact, just after the First Contact War.


Quote:
The conduit (if you mean the beam up to the Citadel) was a transporter beam meant to move organic material up to the Citadel for processing for use in Reaper construction. Thus it's not unreasonable IMO that husks etc continue to shovel up bodies, especially since a fair number of them just were produced nearby with the failed rush attack.
Shepard would have to be knocked out for hours for this many bodies to be piled up:



As for them being Ashley and Kaidan, I can't see the resemblance in their faces, because it's such a low-quality, horrible texture, but the fact that the piles feature Pheonix and Onyx armours, and *only* those armours, does seem to be peculiar.

Quote:
There is no such thing in established lore. See above.
Before ME3, neither were Crucibles, Catalysts, or cause-shepard-to-shoot-anderson-with-a-wave-of-a-hand powers.



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:48 AM   #1655
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Haven't played the game, yet, but 'twould be a disservice if I didn't post this.



"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:46 AM   #1656
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Haven't played the game, yet, but 'twould be a disservice if I didn't post this.

True story. I still am truly disappointed by the way things turned out for one of my favorite franchises...

Nothing to look forward to on xbox now except for Halo 4!



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Old 08-21-2012, 10:57 AM   #1657
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An interesting interview with Drew Karpyshyn and some very interesting things he has said about the ending of Mass Effect 3 and how things could have been... http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...drew-karpyshyn

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Old 08-21-2012, 12:36 PM   #1658
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I think this says it all.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:10 PM   #1659
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I still find it mind boggling that he talks about going into a project set up as a trilogy from the start with no overarching plot mapped out, just making crap up as they go along, like it's a good thing. That's precisely the reason ME3 ended up the way it did.
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Old 08-21-2012, 03:04 PM   #1660
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I still find it mind boggling that he talks about going into a project set up as a trilogy from the start with no overarching plot mapped out, just making crap up as they go along, like it's a good thing. That's precisely the reason ME3 ended up the way it did.
As much as I enjoyed the Mass Effect games (to a degree), this is one of the reasons I don't consider this one of the best (gaming) trilogies of all time, as some gaming sites dare to claim. If even the ending of the series was subject to change and wasn't set in stone from an early period, it doesn't deserve that kind of praise.

You often hear of serialized TV shows having a concept to start with, a begin point and a clear vision on how it should end. Often, the creator only knows these things for certain and has a general idea of how to get from point A to B. Some ideas will change, or be expanded upon, but you're pretty sure that it at least will make sense within the rules of the created universe. What happens when you don't have the ending planned out even in a general way is what you get with Mass Effect, where changes and additions (Cerberus in ME2, for example) feel forced and the setup for the grand finale needs to be explained during the finale.


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Old 08-25-2012, 03:19 PM   #1661
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I know I'm a bit late to the party in bashing on ME3's endings, which really are quite bleak, but I actually am about to say that the bad started a bit earlier than the final scene.

Show spoiler
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:39 AM   #1662
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The voice-over guy is pretty bad, but it still gave me a laugh nonetheless:

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Old 08-26-2012, 04:30 AM   #1663
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I'm waiting for the next ambitious project by some other developer to do with the ME trilogy promised but fell short on. I'm sure one day someone will try again...

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Old 08-26-2012, 04:50 AM   #1664
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Explicitly promised by Bioware, or just what you hoped the series would be? I don't recall there being anything particularly revolutionary in the various claims they put forth over the years, regardless of whether or not they actually achieved any of them.
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:17 PM   #1665
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What I hoped the series would be, of course. Why would you think otherwise? Also, no video game is going to be revolutionary unless it can suddenly pop out 3D holographic images out of nowhere or something drastically forward like that. I just expected it not to disappoint me on so many levels by the end...

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Old 08-26-2012, 03:22 PM   #1666
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Unless your expectations aren't too specific, that should happen soon enough (In my case it already has, Alpha Protocol was that game mechanic and story wise for me).


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:24 PM   #1667
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What compelling space based sci-fi series is coming out soon?

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Old 08-26-2012, 10:31 PM   #1668
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What compelling space based sci-fi series is coming out soon?
There is Halo 4, but that series has been around for a while now, and compelling is rather subjective.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:16 AM   #1669
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I'm liking the look of Halo 4 because it has a lot of Metroid Prime flavouring added to it, but I wouldn't count it as a contender.

I mean compelling in terms of story and depth and character interactions. Halo has the scale, but not the depth needed for what I'm thinking of.

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Old 08-27-2012, 12:52 PM   #1670
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Halo 4: finish the new fight so you can finish it again in Halo 5 XP

I haven't really paid attention to anything that comes close to Mass Effect in terms of compelling sci-fi, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if another developer comes out with such a genre of their own in the next E3
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:59 PM   #1671
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What compelling space based sci-fi series is coming out soon?
I'm with you there. Over the past few years, I've been mainly looking into RPG's because I found the genre had the biggest potential to tell interesting stories. Sadly, the genre is mostly occupied with fantasy settings. Finding a decent space based sci-fi game that isn't just about shooting stuff is hard as it is without looking to specific genres, let alone finding one in the RPG category. I'm guessing it's part of the reason I'm still excited every time a Star Wars game is announced.

Also, Prey 2, where are you?!


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Old 08-28-2012, 03:13 AM   #1672
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What compelling space based sci-fi series is coming out soon?
Cowboy Bebop: The RPG

MAKE IT HAPPEN PEOPLE


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Old 08-29-2012, 10:28 PM   #1673
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Anyone play Leviathan?

I did, and i found it to be
spoiler:
surprisingly good.


Show spoiler



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:31 PM   #1674
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To hell with the DLC.

Doesn't matter if it's the best thing ever made, make a game complete when you release it or it doesn't count.

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Old 08-29-2012, 11:37 PM   #1675
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Indeed Leviathan is great. It makes a lot more sense out the ending. But, like Lynk said, it should've been put in the final product from the start. There is no justifiable reason to keep chunks of the story that important out of the game. To hell with "good business."
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:58 PM   #1676
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I'll pass on the DLC.

Will watch it on youtube

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Old 08-30-2012, 02:39 PM   #1677
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I'll play it...sooner or later... I support my brothers to the North and their capitalist economy. Lynk is just bitter and wants free stuff.


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Old 08-30-2012, 03:09 PM   #1678
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I don't even want it at all, free or otherwise. I'm done with Mass Effect lol.

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Old 08-30-2012, 06:28 PM   #1679
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I don't want any spoilers, but does it actually change the ending(s), or does it just explain them? Because spending money to have the worst par of the game drag on even longer doesn't sound like a good deal.


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:01 PM   #1680
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It makes more sense out of them, but it doesn't change them.
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