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Old 04-25-2014, 01:56 PM   #1
megarock58
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Th EU is being rebooted.

http://starwars.com/news/the-legenda...-new-page.html
discuss.
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:31 PM   #2
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Yep. Now all the EU is "Legends" and can only be considered canon if they decide to reuse it. like (in the article) The inquisitor, Sinear fleet systems, and the Imperial Security Bureau.

Tho it is kind of sad to realize now, that fans have to figure out if it is Canon or legends, and the mere fact something becomes canon could lead to a question of how big the snowball gets.

For example the fact they have the ISB, does that mean COMPNOR exists? how much of it? or does it remain in limbo until it is mentioned?

If we see a twi'lek does that mean Ryloth is now canon? what about ryll? Slavery? what color twi'leks are there now? do they still use a secret language with their Lekku?


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Old 04-25-2014, 05:08 PM   #3
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I'm not sure if the Legends brand will be applied to everything or just post-RotJ EU.

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Originally Posted by K_Kinnison View Post
If we see a twi'lek does that mean Ryloth is now canon?
Yes.

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Old 04-26-2014, 01:03 AM   #4
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I'm pretty sure they mean they want to start a completely new slate so everything that isn't the six current movies and TCW material is now part of the Legends brand.

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Old 04-26-2014, 07:36 PM   #5
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I love (most of) the EU, but I still say "about time". It was out of control.


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Old 04-29-2014, 03:35 AM   #6
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Out of control? The legacy/legendary Star Wars EU is the most controlled expanded universe content for any piece of fiction out there.

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Old 04-29-2014, 09:59 AM   #7
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By "out of control" I didn't necessarily mean "contradictory" (though it is at times); I was more speaking to the sheer volume and expansiveness that the EU has grown into. I think there's just too much. Don't get me wrong - I soak it all up being the fan that I am... but it does lose some potency due to the sheer volume (re: NJO series, Legacy of the Force series, FOTJ series).


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Old 04-29-2014, 10:07 AM   #8
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I have a feeling that the new expanded universe will end up being just as bloated as the old EU sooner than you think considering Disney is milking Star Wars for all that it's worth.

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Old 04-29-2014, 04:32 PM   #9
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Maybe - who knows. I like the idea of 1 canon though.


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Old 04-30-2014, 03:32 AM   #10
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We had one canon before

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Old 04-30-2014, 08:26 AM   #11
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One, multi-tiered and heavily debated canon.


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Old 04-30-2014, 03:45 PM   #12
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Sure, after all this time it became just that, however it was all meant to be one unified universe. After a while certain things happen such as Lucas overriding and changing a bunch of things with the prequel trilogy and the sheer volume of the works in the EU and you end up getting quite a mess in the end.

All that's happening is that things are being rebooted. You can bet that after a certain period of time, this new universe will suffer the same drawbacks as the old from the sheer volume of material being produced alone.

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Old 04-30-2014, 04:19 PM   #13
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You're probably right, but I'm still excited.


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Old 05-28-2014, 12:31 AM   #14
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Even if you limit things to just the films that exist now, you'll still get debates about matters of consistency. With a new trilogy and spin-off movies in the works, inconsistency is inevitable.


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Old 06-18-2014, 09:42 PM   #15
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I have been saying they should do this for years. About time!

Now that's not to say that it will be better this time. It all depends upon how they handle things. Basically they made Star Wars "canon" virtually meaningless in response to the Prequels.

The "purpose" of having a canon in a fictional franchise is to give guidelines for content creators within that franchise to keep the story straight and show them what they can and cannot do with the characters and storylines. Fans will always judge what they like or don't like and vote with their wallets. If the "canon" keeps changing every week, it just ends up a mess, as if there were no real guidelines to begin with. And that would be fine if each new bit of content was self-contained, but so much of it relies upon the idea of a larger continuity that makes some kind of sense.

I agree that there are continuity problems within the films themselves (even before the Prequels and special edition changes began). But when you throw in so many other hands it just got worse and worse. Whoever is in charge of it this time needs to do better than Lucas. Rebooting fictional franchises sees to be all the rage now, but already the new films are supposed to be in continuity with the old ones, so we'll see how well it goes. The size thing makes sense, but who says that the Star Wars franchise needs to be so big? I feel like we've been over saturated with Star Wars stuff for quite awhile. It's not everybody's religion, but I can't blame them for wanting to bleed it dry with all the money that could be made. It just comes at the expense of the material itself.

But overall I say good on them and good luck with it this time around. They should still give game developers a greater degree of freedom though.


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Old 06-21-2014, 07:04 PM   #16
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Did someone IU go back in time and alter the Canon timeline or something? It seems so, because now the EU/Legends are in an entirely different timeline. In other words, the SW Universe seems to have split in two, just like what quantum physics predicts for the OOU "Grandfather paradox" (time follows a different path). I just need to know when the 2 timelines split apart from each other; probably 36,453 BBY or earlier.


According to quantum physics, every physically possible universe exists in what's called the Multiverse. This means that the Star Wars galaxy could possibly exist in another, inaccessible universe. I wonder which one...
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate38 View Post
It seems so, because now the EU/Legends are in an entirely different timeline.
No, it simply ceased to exist.



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Old 06-26-2014, 02:35 PM   #18
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Question HOW in the entire multiverse can a timeline just suddenly cease to exist?!

In other words, you're saying that someone went back in time and altered the timeline so that the Canon events would take another path, thus eliminating the EU? That sounds like a variation on the Grandfather Paradox (In other words, it's impossible for an alternate timeline, like the EU, to just become non-existant, without the main timeline doing the same thing):

1. the one that altered the timeline would no longer exist, because he/she/it (for droids/hermaphrodites that have no apparent gender) would have come from the EU timeline, resulting in the Canon timeline returning to it's original pre-April 2014 EU state.
2. Because the timeline returned to normal, then the person who altered it would exist again. Return to #1 and this will repeat forever, thus, it's a paradox.

1 and 2 contradict each other, just like the grandfather paradox. Thus, both timelines must exist, mutually connected by a past (or future) event. Neither can cease to exist without a paradox. This also works in with quantum physics: Anything that can happen, does happen, because when an event occurs, it happens in all possible ways. Only 1 of these timelines is truly Canon, and it's the one in the Prequel/CW/Classic/Sequel.

Some examples of what this means:

1. As a result of Vader throwing Sidious to his death, many non-canon timelines popped up, all originating in 4 ABY, but just before Sidious started using Force-Lightning on Luke. In some of these, Luke was able to kill Sidious and/or Vader.
2. When Anakin became Vader (in 19 BBY), the timeline split into many different variations of said event. In some of these timelines, Order 66 never occured. In others, Vader had a vision of what was coming and turned back to the light side. Again, only 1 timeline is Canon (the one leading up to the death of Padme, and the events of ANH).
3. Many of the non-canon timelines would look like movie bloopers to you, with Jedi tripping over stones, Jedi and Sith accidently dropping their lightsabers at random, the Death Star's laser malfunctioning/overloading, Alderaan not exploding, Sidious having a heart attack or stroke, etc., all due to quantum physics and chaos.
4. Still others might look like nonsense, with planets suddenly turning into pure energy, or vice versa, by way of the mass-energy relationship (E=mc˛)

That's right. If you were to go way back in time and alter/destroy something as small as an atom, you will have altered the timeline considerably, even to the extent of the Jedi and Sith (or even life itself) never coming into existence, depending on which atom you destroy. All this is due to chaos. However, the main timeline will always exist, but now it's completely inaccessible, unless someone finds a way to jump between timelines. Maybe wormholes would be helpful for that?


According to quantum physics, every physically possible universe exists in what's called the Multiverse. This means that the Star Wars galaxy could possibly exist in another, inaccessible universe. I wonder which one...

Last edited by stargate38; 06-26-2014 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Correct Mass-Energy Equation typo
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate38 View Post
In other words, you're saying that someone went back in time and altered the timeline so that the Canon events would take another path, thus eliminating the EU?
No, I'm saying that the fictional stories and characters that are part of the EU no longer exist (in-universe, of course. You can still buy the books). There are no alternate timelines or parallel universes. They just don't count anymore.



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Old 06-26-2014, 05:05 PM   #20
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NONE of it exists... that's obvious. The "not counting" applies to when content creators make new licensed stuff. As was said, you can buy whatever you want and like whatever you want. It's like anything else. If they make a sequel to your favorite book/movie/game and you think it sucks and want nothing to do with it as a fan, nobody, not even the creator(s) of that series can tell you differently.

That's not the point of canon. We'd now be talking about an individual's "personal canon" which has to do with their suspension of disbelief as they enjoy an entertainment product. If it enhances the experience to imagine the sequel is "real" with regards to the original that's one option, if it enhances it to ignore it, that's another. But the point of canon here is for the content creators themselves to manage how they create new content for that franchise to market to potential fans who will pay for it.

To illustrate how it works, let's say Kevin J. Anderson or Timothy Zahn wants to write a new "Star Wars" novel, whatever the Disney company's policy is, they have to follow it. Like you can set your story in this time period and use these characters but character X can't be killed, character Y is married to character Z and you can't break them up, concept B must acknowledge concept A, etc. Or if Raven wants to make a new game and they say the Force works like this and you can use this but not this or whatever.

The trouble with any continuity like this is that if something is stupid, it becomes part of the "canon" and every other new bit of content as to at least in theory acknowledge it or be hampered by it. So whoever is in charge of it has to be extra careful (we hope) in managing that sort of thing. It can be good in that it requires less suspension of disbelief by the fans and might motivate them to stick with it longer and spend more money (if that's important to them). It can be bad in that it limits the creativity of content creators and might cause the franchise to become more stale, if the people in charge don't have good ideas for the direction of the franchise, plots, characters, etc.

Think of it this way, some of the best shows I've seen had what was called a "writers bible" at the start. This established the trajectory of the show and how the characters were, etc. When this was adhered to, it prevented wild inconsistencies from happening that would deviate from the show's original intention. Now sometimes a show is badly received or gets stale and then you start taking risks changing things. Lucas kind of set the ball rolling by changing things and then saying he "always intended" this or that. He made drastic changes in his own franchise and the hired content creators had to keep up, whilst simultaneously trying to keep it fresh so fans especially new ones would want to pay their money and not alienate too many of them in the process for those who liked the older stuff.

A franchise can survive with a loose continuity, a tight one, a big one or a small one. In this case, it's a step in the right direction, especially if they plan to crank out another decade of new content. Comic books did this a few times in my lifetime. Anybody remember the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" thing with DC? They tried to resolve the continuities of the 1930's through the 1980's in a series to basically create one continuity. Now from a real world standpoint, this wasn't necessary. They can just say the new stories don't acknowledge the old. Who says they have to? But they wanted to explain, in-universe, why Superman is like this, rather than how he was in the 40's or 60's or whatever, they tweaked the stories and characters, etc. I doubt Star Wars is going to have a "Crisis" saga that explains how the old EU stopped being canon with time travel or something. They could, but it's not really necessary.


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Old 06-26-2014, 06:21 PM   #21
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Angry Is there ANYONE on this site who supports my theory?!

I think a reason IS necessary for the disappearance of the EU Timeline. Again, How IU can a timeline suddenly revert to the end of the Battle Of Endor, eliminating characters such as Cade Skywalker, Palpatine's clones, and Vergere? It would have to have a cause (Time traveler accident, Unexpected Galaxy-scale quantum fluctuation, Unbelievably powerful hyperspace fluctuations, Collision between 2 universes, etc.), and a cause for that cause (Technological accident, Human/alien error, a Mynock shorting out the time machine's wiring, Natural cause, Unknown deity, intervention by the Celestials, etc.)

If someone were to write a Canon book to explain this, it would help support my theory. But I'm not sure who/what they would pick as the time traveler/time reset causer. Maybe Cade Skywalker or a Yuuzhan Vong warrior would go back in time, to 1 standard year after Palpatine dies, causing a major paradox that destroys the current universe. Thus, the nearest parallel universe, that's most similar to the EU one, replaces it as the Canon universe, resulting in the Post-Battle of Endor timeline being different. Or The Maw collapses under its own gravity, due to relativity, and somehow causes a major space-time disturbance, which reverts the timeline. Or the Celestials got fed up with the recurring battles between Jedi and Sith, returned to the Galaxy, and went back in time to prevent the Yuuzhan Vong from entering the Galaxy. But those are just bizarre theories with no proof.

Another thing: Wouldn't it make more sense to make the EU/Legends become a parallel universe (alternate timeline), rather than just disappearing into oblivion for no IU reason? I just want the EU/Legends to keep going beside the Canon, as an alternate history, not as a non-existent dead-end universe! Someone out there, PLEASE support my theory! I want the EU/Legends to keep going forever, as a parallel universe! I want to know what happens after 138 ABY! How about renaming it "Star Wars: The Forgotten Timeline"? I know a lot of you want Chewbacca to live past the year 24 ABY, but I have many reasons for the EU to not be non-existent IU:

1. I want to know if there are any Fosh, other than Vergere.
2. I want to know if the Yuuzhan Vong ever make peace with the other sentient species.
3. I want to know if the Sith ever surrender to the Jedi, without any major battle, even if it happens after the year 35,600 ABY.


According to quantum physics, every physically possible universe exists in what's called the Multiverse. This means that the Star Wars galaxy could possibly exist in another, inaccessible universe. I wonder which one...
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate38 View Post
In other words, you're saying that someone went back in time and altered the timeline so that the Canon events would take another path, thus eliminating the EU? That sounds like a variation on the Grandfather Paradox (In other words, it's impossible for an alternate timeline, like the EU, to just become non-existant, without the main timeline doing the same thing):

1. the one that altered the timeline would no longer exist, because he/she/it (for droids/hermaphrodites that have no apparent gender) would have come from the EU timeline, resulting in the Canon timeline returning to it's original pre-April 2014 EU state.
2. Because the timeline returned to normal, then the person who altered it would exist again. Return to #1 and this will repeat forever, thus, it's a paradox.

1 and 2 contradict each other, just like the grandfather paradox. Thus, both timelines must exist, mutually connected by a past (or future) event. Neither can cease to exist without a paradox. This also works in with quantum physics: Anything that can happen, does happen, because when an event occurs, it happens in all possible ways. Only 1 of these timelines is truly Canon, and it's the one in the Prequel/CW/Classic/Sequel.

Some examples of what this means:

1. As a result of Vader throwing Sidious to his death, many non-canon timelines popped up, all originating in 4 ABY, but just before Sidious started using Force-Lightning on Luke. In some of these, Luke was able to kill Sidious and/or Vader.
2. When Anakin became Vader (in 19 BBY), the timeline split into many different variations of said event. In some of these timelines, Order 66 never occured. In others, Vader had a vision of what was coming and turned back to the light side. Again, only 1 timeline is Canon (the one leading up to the death of Padme, and the events of ANH).
3. Many of the non-canon timelines would look like movie bloopers to you, with Jedi tripping over stones, Jedi and Sith accidently dropping their lightsabers at random, the Death Star's laser malfunctioning/overloading, Alderaan not exploding, Sidious having a heart attack or stroke, etc., all due to quantum physics and chaos.
4. Still others might look like nonsense, with planets suddenly turning into pure energy, or vice versa, by way of the mass-energy relationship (E=mc˛)

That's right. If you were to go way back in time and alter/destroy something as small as an atom, you will have altered the timeline considerably, even to the extent of the Jedi and Sith (or even life itself) never coming into existence, depending on which atom you destroy. All this is due to chaos. However, the main timeline will always exist, but now it's completely inaccessible, unless someone finds a way to jump between timelines. Maybe wormholes would be helpful for that?
Maybe the changes are for the better all the events you posted it would be something to see a scene change when you know what originally was about to happen.


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