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Old 03-28-2002, 11:57 PM   #1
kagemusha
 
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To those criticizing the sabre

Well, like most people I've been reading everything posted over the last couple of days so I feel fully prepared
One of the things I seem to come across a lot is people criticizing the mp sabre, along the lines of 'random slash fest/less frames'. I just thought I'd add my two cents. When you try and compare it to the single player game, of course it's going to be hack and slash. Why? Because in single player, there's always at least one proponent that has a full understanding of the system, and guess what... it ain't the guy who just brought the game a few days ago. I only got my copy today so I definitely am in no position to make any sort of final judgement, but I must say that from what I've seen and the potential apparent in the flexible controls, I'm very hopeful. You might say I have a special interest in sabre dueling since I've been practicing kendo for some time now, and you'd better believe the first few times any beginner tries to actually fence with someone it's not pretty. Of course, nobody becomes a master without passing through that stage, and that's where most of us are now. Of course, I see a great number of people who get discouraged by their lack of immediate prowess and give up there and then. I think you can see wheer I'm heading... For a possibly more realistic take on mp duels why not read some of the posts, such as those featuring ChangKhan's posts, written by people with some experience. (OK, I know he's the developer but he can't be making it up completely. Anyway, the others who have dueled him seem to tell much the same stories).
As to considerations regarding the number of frames, it seems a bit of a pointless debate. Compared to all the other inescapable mp issues (lag etc.) we all know and dread it seems minor. I'd rather a few less frames that enabled smoother dueling where you could feel you'd won by skill than a complete lagfest. Perhaps for the gifted few who can actually run these games on highest detail in mp then it could be an issue, but surely no disaster?

I look forward to developing my skills with all of you in the near future
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Old 03-29-2002, 12:13 AM   #2
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Amen , i was a bit down on sabres during my first botmatch when i thought it was all kind of hack and slash , but if you take time to actually learn how to use it the sabre is nothing short of awesome

some tricks include

throwing - anyone with a sabre out is likely to have sabre def and will block a sabre thrown at them (ive got 3 in every sabre skill and 3 in jump always) , throw it to the side of them and then as it returns hit them in the back with it

when duelling with someone or fighting an indivudual sabre user dont flail wildly and hope to hit something , dont press attack unless you are reasonably sure you will connect and that way if they attack you you can block it because your sabre isnt swinging. when you do attack, anticipate the next move before the current one finishes then press the appropriate direction, just hold down the mouse (or whatever you use to fire) make your first swing then press the next direction when you see where to attack next.

dont forget kicks! running up to someone and jumping just at their feet with a sabre drawn will result in a flying kick to the head with a knockback, deadly on maps like warring factions and ns_streets

if someone is shooting at you with a blaster or repeater STAND STILL and dont swing your sabre , just point at them , these idiots will kill themselves as long as you have level 3 sabre defense . luckily you get the frag for it

if someone is shooting rockets/flechette/demp at you then level 3 force jump is your friend , these projectiles are relatively easy to avoid in an open area , in a closed in area your best bet is not to face them head on or knock them down with push and then strike

foce push is your friend , knock people down and strike

when facing a tight packed sabre battle with multiple opponents consider switching to fast style and nonstop spinning attacks, otherwise stick to medium style and keep your attacks and defending controlled

heavy stance is unweildly and in a multi opponent situation will get you killed , do not use where there is any danger of interferance - this means only duels and duel game type

remember your sabre does passive damage to whatever it touches , depending on where you are pointing you can do damage to an opponent without swinging the sabre


also does anyone know the conditions that initiate a sabre lock? its only happened a few times to me but its really cool , wondering what actually caused it
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Old 03-29-2002, 01:08 AM   #3
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One of the features of the Quake engines that I've always liked is the ability to record demos. So... any Mace Windus out there get recording and show everyone what you can do!


-Manners are the first line of self defense-
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Old 03-29-2002, 01:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darksider
also does anyone know the conditions that initiate a sabre lock? its only happened a few times to me but its really cool , wondering what actually caused it
I thought it was both players performing an overhead chop head-on.


eets cumen, cap'n!
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Old 03-29-2002, 01:28 AM   #5
arctic_series
 
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Quote:
also does anyone know the conditions that initiate a sabre lock? its only happened a few times to me but its really cool , wondering what actually caused it
like when you run into each other when you don't swing or something.

happened alot when i played the bots.
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Old 03-29-2002, 03:18 AM   #6
ls20
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darksider
Amen , i was a bit down on sabres during my first botmatch when i thought it was all kind of hack and slash , but if you take time to actually learn how to use it the sabre is nothing short of awesome
very helpful. i will incoporate this into my next game
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Old 03-29-2002, 03:27 AM   #7
ChangKhan[RAVEN]
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Excellent points and tips guys, I'm actually very pleased witht he number of people who are really takingt he time to learn the system and become good at it... I look forward to encountering you in online duels...


Michael Chang Gummelt
Game Programmer
Jedi Academy
Raven Software
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Old 03-29-2002, 03:36 AM   #8
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The thing that I find really helpfull in saber only games is switching my stance. A LOT. Against bots right now I'll actually defend with the strong stance and then attack or advance with light and medium. Usually I'll move in with light and go right into medium.


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Old 03-29-2002, 03:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN]
Excellent points and tips guys, I'm actually very pleased witht he number of people who are really takingt he time to learn the system and become good at it... I look forward to encountering you in online duels...
teach us o' great jedi in the sky




to add:

backwards stab (seen in preview)

just back + primary (enemy must be behind u) and u must be in med. stance
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Old 03-29-2002, 03:44 AM   #10
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Actually, it's the light/fast stance. Medium or strong will give you a 180...


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Old 03-29-2002, 04:03 AM   #11
enderWiggin6
 
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hey all, i've been in on a couple threads about this topic. i think that the mp saber complaints are a direct result of the whole separate-teams-working-on-multiplayer-and-single-player thing. basically, the single player game is what most people are interested in, and have been diving right into. the saber play in single player is lightning fast, full of blocks and parries, slow-mo deaths and general bad-ass-ness. it sets the standard quite high, and when people are now jumping into multiplayer, it definetely seems quite slow and generally nonresponsive in comparison. if i hadn't dueled reborns left and right, i'd prolly think mplayer was great... i think the guys who worked on the multi-player component should've taken a look at the single-player code...maybe a little copy/paste. hehehehe. i just played multiplayer for 2 hours, and while somewhat fun, i think anyone would agree that the saber fights in mplayer don't even come close to fighting tavion or dessaan(sp?)...the bot ai is also a factor, as it seems completely uninterested in dueling with you... just my 2 cents.

ender.
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Old 03-29-2002, 04:17 AM   #12
Tree
 
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Re: To those criticizing the sabre

Quote:
Originally posted by kagemusha
Well, like most people I've been reading everything posted over the last couple of days so I feel fully prepared
One of the things I seem to come across a lot is people criticizing the mp sabre, along the lines of 'random slash fest/less frames'. I just thought I'd add my two cents. When you try and compare it to the single player game, of course it's going to be hack and slash. Why? Because in single player, there's always at least one proponent that has a full understanding of the system, and guess what... it ain't the guy who just brought the game a few days ago. I only got my copy today so I definitely am in no position to make any sort of final judgement, but I must say that from what I've seen and the potential apparent in the flexible controls, I'm very hopeful. You might say I have a special interest in sabre dueling since I've been practicing kendo for some time now, and you'd better believe the first few times any beginner tries to actually fence with someone it's not pretty. Of course, nobody becomes a master without passing through that stage, and that's where most of us are now. Of course, I see a great number of people who get discouraged by their lack of immediate prowess and give up there and then. I think you can see wheer I'm heading... For a possibly more realistic take on mp duels why not read some of the posts, such as those featuring ChangKhan's posts, written by people with some experience. (OK, I know he's the developer but he can't be making it up completely. Anyway, the others who have dueled him seem to tell much the same stories).
As to considerations regarding the number of frames, it seems a bit of a pointless debate. Compared to all the other inescapable mp issues (lag etc.) we all know and dread it seems minor. I'd rather a few less frames that enabled smoother dueling where you could feel you'd won by skill than a complete lagfest. Perhaps for the gifted few who can actually run these games on highest detail in mp then it could be an issue, but surely no disaster?

I look forward to developing my skills with all of you in the near future
You taking Kendo in the US? I was gonna get some classes but I heard that the instructors in the US are a joke. :/ Guess I'll just go to Japan :P
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Old 03-29-2002, 04:54 AM   #13
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Switching stances is a great tactic. Generally, my uses of the stances are as follows:

Fast: Don't use it much, harder to learn the moves than the other two since they come so fast. When I get good I think I'll use it for heated up-close duels.
Medium: All around usage, use almost exclusively in duels.
Strong: VERY powerful tool if used correctly. I use it when I see 2 or more people fighting eachother and they're not paying attention to me; easy kills that way. I also use it after I knock someone down(kick is way more reliable than Push in my experience).
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