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Old 04-27-2002, 04:05 PM   #1
Wired
 
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Something MUST be wrong, help me

When I do a Fastvis(1/2), whatever that means, it compiles in 2 minutes and 28 seconds. This time I chose to do a Fullvis and t0 this time (1 hour and 36 minutes later) it hasn't finished. Is it really supposed to take this long or is something wrong?

I really don't want to abort after such a long time, but I don't wanna sit here like a moronic moron for god knows how long.


Close the world, txEn eht nepO.
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Old 04-27-2002, 04:15 PM   #2
Darth Draugmahl
 
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It depends on a few factors. If you maps is really complex or poorly made it can take a horrendous amount of time to compile. My first map for Heretic II took 46 minutes to compile under full vis and it had polygons overlapping and quickly made plugs to fill leaks and all variety of extremely nasty design issues. The map file was a wreck. The last map I made for that game took 4 1/2 minutes to compile under full vis. I haven't seen your map or the map file so I can't tell you if either of these things is the culprit. If you want to send them to me I will look at them. The other suspects would be your system specs or the available resources during your compile. Other than that you could have a different issue I supposed but these would be the place to look first
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Old 04-27-2002, 05:05 PM   #3
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Here are some pics of the level:
Tha Pics

And the map file can be found here: (do a save as)
Map



I forgot my specs, they are a 1.7 GHz p4 with 512Megs of memory, so I can't see that as the root of the problem...


Close the world, txEn eht nepO.

Last edited by Wired; 04-27-2002 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 04-27-2002, 06:07 PM   #4
Mr. Nip
 
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Your problem is not your system. It's a problem of optimization.

First of all, sweet map. Very nice architecture. Of course, that's the problem. I downloaded your map and tried to compile... waited for 20 minutes... then gave up. Okay, open up JK2Radiant...

Whoa! You don't have any detail brushes in there. That's what's making your vis data huge. Every single brush is marked as 'structural', so when computing visability the program checks each and every brush to see if it blocks the view into other sections of your map - even the decorative arches which obviously can't, even if you're pressed right up against them. This is especially a problem in the interior of the temple with all those... uh, angled columns supporting the roof. They don't do much to block vis, but they have to be calculated anyway, and that takes a lot of time.

What you have to do is go through your map and find every brush that is just 'decoration' and can't possibly block the 'view' into other large sections of your map. Select them, right click, and choose 'Make Detail'.

I did a quick job of this and reduced your vis data by more than half (~200k to ~70k). It still took about 10 minutes to compile, but that's already a huge improvement. Then I loaded it up and fought a few shadowtroopers on the platform in the temple. Very cool!
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Old 04-27-2002, 06:30 PM   #5
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Thanks!

I'm totally new to editing in Q3, so far I've kept myself to Unreal powered games.


Just a question, since I dunno what to make into detail, could I make the stairs into detail brushes and the collumns. What about the platforms in the central chamber and so on?

And should I use the caulk_nonsolid texture?


Close the world, txEn eht nepO.

Last edited by Wired; 04-27-2002 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 04-27-2002, 06:54 PM   #6
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How do you make out what's a detail brush and a structual brush, so I don't make them into detail brushes over and over... not that it matters but it's a waste of time.




Nevermind, I figured out how to toggle it on/off.


Close the world, txEn eht nepO.
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Old 04-27-2002, 06:54 PM   #7
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structural brushes are generally:

walls, floors, ceilings, stairs, anything used to close off one room from another, or one level from another.

detail brushes would be crates, pillars, and other decorative brushes you add to give the level depth and make it look better.

HTH

the purple one


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Old 04-27-2002, 06:56 PM   #8
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Ok, thanks... hopefully it's speed things up...


Close the world, txEn eht nepO.
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Old 04-27-2002, 07:01 PM   #9
Mr. Nip
 
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Arches and columns certainly yes. As for stairs, in your case I see that the steps are simple blocks sitting on top of a ramp, so also make them detail. Think of it this way - if you removed the steps, would you be able to see from the inside of the temple to the outside? If no, they should be detail. If yes, keep them structural! If a brush that separates major areas of the level is made detail, the visualizer will treat it as if it's not there at all, causing the engine to 'see' one area from the other, drawing lots of extra polygons and decreasing framerate.

Caulk is a different matter. Only caulk surfaces that will never be seen by the player! Otherwise, they will block visibility but not be drawn, causing weird visual effects that you probably don't want. The neat thing about using 'Make Detail' on brushes is that it will do a fair job of caulking non-visible surfaces of the brushes. It can screw up sometimes if you have overlapping brushes by caulking visible surfaces, so be sure to check its work.

The platform in the main chamber is tricky. If you're standing on it, it could certainly block the view of the fancy piller underneath. If you're looking at it from the side though, it really doesn't block anything. You can try both and compare compile times and framerates - it's not an exact science.

Making detail/structural brushes is a balance of compile time vs. framerate. Make the wrong things detail and the engine will render areas that aren't actually see-able by the player. Make too much structural and compiling will take forever. The basic framework of your map should be structural, while the widgets and decorations should be detail.

As a side note, I really should take my own advice... I had some fancy grillwork around a fan that I forgot to make detail, and my level took 5 minutes to compile. I made them detail, and suddenly it only took 24 seconds! Computing visibility seems to be exponentially complex, ie. doubling the amount of vis data will increase your compile time by way WAY more than 2x.
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Old 04-27-2002, 07:35 PM   #10
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I just did the 'make into detail' thing and compiled the map.... it took 17 minutes, an obvious improvement over 1 hour and 42 minutes.


Close the world, txEn eht nepO.
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