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View Poll Results: Does the patch SUCK?
Royally, get rid of it, it\'s ruined the game 89 48.37%
Yes, but it\'s tolerable 19 10.33%
No, I love the nerfs in it 68 36.96%
Huh? 8 4.35%
Voters: 184. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: All who hate the patch, post here
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Old 05-09-2002, 12:48 AM   #81
fitzwilliamd
 
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CENSORED!

I edited out a harangue against the 1.03 nightmare which included a barrage of profanity and some highly inappropriate 'heat seeking' Latin.

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Old 05-09-2002, 03:04 AM   #82
failsaf3
 
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Quote:
To avoid people who whines about how people 'whine', let's just say that UNPATCHED VERSION OF JK2 RULES!
Amen!
Quote:
65 liked : 33 disliked so far on the poll...
which poll are you looking at?
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Old 05-09-2002, 03:43 AM   #83
pnags
 
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wow, this patch really doesnt change all that much. you should play cs and then you can see some patches that REALLY change gameplay everytime
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Old 05-09-2002, 04:40 AM   #84
Desler
 
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I've finally given myself enough time to test out this patch. The good news for me is I can still own in it without much trouble - going server to serverl without a loss. The bad news is, I hate it. Game balancing should come from small precision changes, not large thrown in your face changes that force you to change your entire style. Incremental changes would have been very much appreciated, instead, we get the style of the game changed around tremendously, and are forced to adapt. I think this is where most people have the problem. Adapting is fine - but some people enjoy playing a game a certain way, now they are forced to play another one or else revert to the earlier version which will eventually be invalidated for competitive gameplay.

I do like the fact that heal and drain can now be used with a lot of consequence - the consumption of a gallon of force power. I still think however that drain whoring is still alive and well. The problem with drain is, it takes 4 force power to use, and it will stop once you reach the minimum amount of force power needed to start it. Meaning, once I get down to 3 force power, it stops automatically. Instead, it should stop when it gets down to null, and only be able to start up again when you get 4 force power. THAT will eliminate the spamming. If I had a choice between drain or heal, I'd still take drain any day. Heal is fine - however, the amount of force needed to heal is horrendous, and I feel for light side users. Instead, how about a scale like drain, make heal a continuous power instead of a one shot power, healing like 3 points per force point, until the user runs out of force, only able to heal again when they have 4 bars.

The decreased damage (I think) from Kick is fine - however, I think the game would benefit from being able to have both styles - one jump or two. Two jumps is nice because you can kick in midair, but one jump rocked because it didn't make your hand hurt after hitting the jump button so much from kicking someone who insists on repeatingly charging at you. Something I would -love- to see is kicking different areas having different effects. Kicking in the legs wouldn't do much. Kicking in the head would send your opponent down for a bit. While kicking in the back would knock em flat on their face.

Backwards moves are nifty - and making them hard to block is ok - BUT, the damage must be reduced. Again, incremental. Don't -kill- the damage, just make it like 3/4ths what it is. At the very least, give people with full health pools a chance to survive the attack. I personally have had little difficulty predicting and countering these moves, but your average player just doesn't have

DFA is still extremely useful. One of my old style techniques, while not -as- effective, still works well. The damage seems to all be there - but it isn't totally unblockable as it was before, which is why people think the damage just isn't there. It works well against some players, and others you shouldn't try it against unless you want a mouth full of saber. Good change here, no complaints or suggestions.

Lightning finally isn't totally useless with the heal and drain changes - and despite what many think, I don't think it's overpowered either. I have never used lightning at all in my career because I think force powers should be used as tools to aid your sabering, not as tools to damage your opponent. Lightning is fairly easy to dodge if you are quick, you'll likely get scorched a bit, but that is inevitable.

Overall, sabering style itself is what I dislike. It's more luck then timing now. However, I try to stay away from constantly clashing saber fight swing fests and concentrate on timed aimed blows. Quality, not quantity. This has always been my strategy, and every good person I have played against will always go for the timed blows as opposed to the swing like a madman style.
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Old 05-09-2002, 04:48 AM   #85
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I love it


The title of this thread asks for people who dont like the patch to post here, but the poll is still very close. That indicates that as many peope like it as dont,or maybe more.

Its the same story in every game. One persons "playstyle" can also be an "exploit".
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Old 05-09-2002, 04:50 AM   #86
GileS__l7l
 
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If it aint broke, don't fix it

The poll doesn't lie...

The majority of the votes say that Lucasarts/Raven need to take this patch back, man.

I could list things about the patch, many many cons, but the most weighty one is that IT ISN'T THE SAME GAME AND DEFNITELY NOT FUN ANYMORE.

Sheesh, why do companies do this? Spend more time testing it, you wankers, instead of getting the public hooked on a game and then TOTALLY altering everything about it!

Did you guys talk to Blizzard before you did this?


--Mr. GileS™

http://ll7ll.owns.it

GeT SomE GriP*™
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Old 05-09-2002, 05:02 AM   #87
GileS__l7l
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_Mormegil
The saber combat is so ****e now, all the whining gay playersl are happy with this patch but I want them all to burn in hell for being stupid. I really, really, really Łucking hate this patch.

im not gonna use it because its just not fun ffs, this patch doesnt even deserve any intelligient comments & I can't control the anger i feel for the patched version.

PATCHED VERSION = GOOD FOR WOMEN AND FAGGOTS
LMFAO

Man, I couldn't say it better myself. Mormegil, I will be running pure unpatched games on the MSN IGZ. Look me up, my username is the same

Here's to the ANTI-PATCH MOVEMENT!!!!


--Mr. GileS™

http://ll7ll.owns.it

GeT SomE GriP*™
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Old 05-09-2002, 05:30 AM   #88
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Re: If it aint broke, don't fix it

Quote:
Originally posted by GileS__l7l
The poll doesn't lie...
I demand a recount! Go Gore 2000!


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Old 05-09-2002, 07:16 AM   #89
Fear
 
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Thumbs down Great game gone down hill

There are things the patch does good.... the bug fixxes, chat icon, new levels,(even though I don't play duel levels) and a few others. But what they did to the force powers and sabre battles just watered down the entire online game play. Before you had to react to someone or you could get killed fast.... not now. The sabre battles are too long and its not how good your are but how many times you can hit him to kill him now. And they might as well take all the darkside powers and thrown them out after how they stripped the punch out of them. Take Grip, its useless unless you have someone that does not use force. You walk so slow now when using the power anyone can just push there way out of it and half the time send you on the floor. Also they boost a power that was more than powerful already in absorb. Oh ya, they make healing cost more but who cares there are health packs all over and bacta. So the light side gets very strong and the dark side gets left with lightning.(which I hardly use unless they run from me) So I am left with force pull and push on the darkside. Well I am unpatching after this and if they don't fix this in another patch I will play it till I can't find players, then shelf it. But I will remember when it comes time to buy another game from them.

Last edited by Fear; 05-10-2002 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 05-09-2002, 11:16 AM   #90
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Why is it that everybody who hates the new patch has to be babbling crybabies? Why am I even reading this thread?

Here's a big clue for you all:

If you don't like the new patch then STFU and PLAY THE UNPATCHED VERSION !!!!

OMFG how simple is that?

DA


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Old 05-09-2002, 11:21 AM   #91
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Re: If it aint broke, don't fix it

Quote:
Originally posted by GileS__l7l
The poll doesn't lie...

The majority of the votes say that Lucasarts/Raven need to take this patch back, man.
[Sarcasm]
Ya, your absolutely right man. They should take the patch off right now
[/Sarcasm off]

You don't think the whole title of this thread has anything to do with the results do you?

Title = "All who hate the patch, post here"

I'd say that this poll was just a litttttttle bit biased. Check out the OFFICIAL poll results in this forum for the UN-BIASED results.

(Currently 87 Like and 35 Dislike)

Have a nice day


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Old 05-09-2002, 01:24 PM   #92
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First off, I will say that Raven's efforts to appease fans should be recognized and appreciated even by those who dislike the patch. Regardless of what was changed, it is clear that most, if not all of it, was due to the requests of players. So, big kudos to Raven for putting forth the effort to improve the game based upon player requests.

However, my personal opinion is that "the vision" of Star Wars and the reality of multiplayer online play (particularly Saber-fighting) have become confused and distorted. The problem I have is that, though the new changes to multiplayer (inclusion of the single player saber fighting system) serve to make saber fights look more "realistic" and more like the movies, actual gameplay shows a distinct lack of depth and strategy when compared to the former style. What they did was essentially trade gameplay for "the vision", and anyone who's played EverQuest can attest to the fact that sometimes you have to sacrifice "the vision" to create a fun game.

There are some great aspects of the new patch:

-DFA changes -- good changes, though I think simply altering the clipping problems and disabling turning while performing the move would have sufficed. As it is now, DFA is still a viable move in the right situation -- the way it was intended to be.

-Light stance changes -- Big big plus. Though the light stance in the previous style was not as useless as many believed (Backstab and the lunge/upward slash have always been excellent moves), the new changes are definitley welcome.

-Absorb -- This change single-handedly shifted the balance of power from Dark to Dark/Light. IMO the forces are now more balanced than ever.

There are also some bad ones:

-Blocking -- The parry system is good, everything else sucks. Constantly applied combos are basically the only way to mount a frontal attack. The "headless chicken" style of play just became the ONLY way to play the game -- players now will be classified as "players spamming combos" and "players spamming regular moves because they don't know any combos."

-Heavy stance -- The reduction in speed was unwarranted. The only change this stance needed (besides DFA tweaking) was a slight reduction in damage dealt. As it stands the stance is far too cumbersome to be used realistically in saber combat.


With all these changes, the game is still playable. The problem is, JKII MP before revolved around timing and strategy -- knowing when to risk a DFA (unless your opponent was a moron), knowing when to risk a pull/kick, and generally being able to handle yourself with a saber in regards to general defense and offense. Being a successful saberist in all situations required a mastery of all stances, forces. Now, being a successful saberist involves memorizing combos and repeatedly executing them, hoping a few slashes manage to get through the ridiculous blocking.


-j030
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Old 05-09-2002, 01:50 PM   #93
Desler
 
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A nice evaluation Jaded, although the best combos still lie not in saber combos, but in force/saber combinations. When your opponent swings like crazy, he'll often leave open a blind spot that can be hit even in heavy stance (with the forward-left quick swing). Same goes for those who jump around wildly trying to kick people, same move, just a little more aim. As I said in my post earlier - if LucasArts or Raven did this process a bit slower and more incrementally (making smaller minute changes instead of game changing changes), they could have weighed the reaction accordingly.

The true veterans however have no problems playing in this patch, though knowing most of their styles, I can say that they are probably having a lot less fun, because like myself, they prioritize precision, accuracy, and finess over spamming.
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Old 05-09-2002, 01:52 PM   #94
RGF_Derfla
 
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Hers why the patch is liked / disliked

Pretty simple really. You bought the game. You decided to get elite. You did what everyone does you found the little tweaks in the game like the one hit in the toe death red stance move. You practiced it hard to perfect it. You owned. Then one day poof it's gone. You have to hunt for new things to practice. Your not sure you want to do that all over again. So you complain - don't upgrade - only play on the old servers where you own.

I never really liked the saber the way it was. I didn't ask Raven to change it - I just play games with forces and guns. Yeah they increased the ammo usage of my two fav guns because you could kill the saber guys easy enough. I'll just adjust...

So if you are truly good. If you can really play MP games - you'll adjust. If you just practiced to get kills on little things the programers missed then your outta luck.

Thr RGF has a CTF ver 1.03 server up 206.206.105.181. Come play if you like...
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Old 05-10-2002, 01:06 PM   #95
kDaWgG__l7l
 
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GHeYBiE®™ Patch

OK this is one dumbass patch that could have done better not being made at all and that person shouldnt have wasted time like that.

The spamming was a problem I would guess but why create something this stupid designed MAINLY to stop this but, yet screw so many more of the aspects of the game up?

This just goes to show you how game maker just wanna screw you out of your money and make more by having bugs in it so you have to patch it and click their banners and blah blah blah.

They really do need to take this GHeYBie®™ patch back for the good of the people, I mean why play the game if it sux.....?
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Old 05-10-2002, 01:19 PM   #96
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Just an FYI:
Developers don't listen to simple whining. They don't bother reading it. They aren't masochists.
Try using constructive criticism.
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Old 05-10-2002, 04:46 PM   #97
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i hate all of you haters
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Old 05-10-2002, 04:47 PM   #98
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I own on 1.02 and 1.03. Regardless of what people defend 1.03 it is a noob friendly patch and lets the people with no skill live longer and do the lame ass auto blocking. Yes the patch sucks the force tweaks are good except lightning which is to powerful now and yellow is fubar. And no im not a noob or a former DFA whore i still own with the llama 1.03 system it just sucks now and is boring as hell. The truth hurts, you know it to be true hehehe!
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Old 05-10-2002, 04:53 PM   #99
-=VIB=- Wang
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SaberPro


Sounds like you're a racist, no?
Ummm.... neither Russia nor whiners is a race, dumbass. Russia=country
Whiners=pathetic dumbasses on the jk2 board who are crying b/c they can't DFA all over the damn place

Sounds like you're a moron, no?


Shop smart! Shop S-Mart!

Sorry, I am no longer in VIB. I can't change my name.
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Old 05-10-2002, 05:33 PM   #100
Trannyn Covnant
 
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Ive read enough about the new patch and i refuse to download it seeing as how from what ive read it completely screws up saber combat.

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Old 05-11-2002, 03:54 AM   #101
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No, you mean you're gonna get screwed up in saber combat, cause you suck ŕss.
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Old 05-11-2002, 06:52 AM   #102
nemis111
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Would all the people think that the patch haters are whining because they cant spam dfa, STFU and STICK YOUR HEADS IN YOUR ASSES, THE FKING GAME IS BORING !!!!! IT HAS LOST SOOO MUCH OF IT"S RUSH, TENSION AND ABOVE ELSE FUN !! I swear it was the best Ive ever played online EVER, and now I FCKING HATE IT, I FCKING HATE IT. IT"S LIKES SOMEONE GIVING U PURE BLISS AND THE SUDDENTLY DECIDED TO GIVE YOU A FCK IN THE ASS. IT"S NOT FUN ANYMORE< GET THAT THRU YOU THICK SKULLS !!!!!! I"TS NOT ABOUT SPAMMING DFA< I"TS ABOUT THE GAME BEING A FKING WRECK NOW< BORING BORING FKING BORING!!!!!!

BRING BACK 1.02 !!!

BRING BACK 1.02 !!!
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Old 05-11-2002, 07:41 AM   #103
Jeffie
 
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The "Newbies gets kills easier" remark is the supidest thing ever!
This game is still a testing of skills vs skills no matter what you think, its always (almost) the best player who comes out on top.

Now the saber duels do go on ALOT longer i can gree with that, and it IS also harder too get a kill but these things just improve gameplay. I always wanted long even duels in this game not the ones pre patch that could be over in 2-3 seconds (although this still does happen)

What the game was about before was wait for the fellow to attack and then counter it, now you have too swing alot more but this does not make it a less skillfull way of playing as you will have too dodge alot more swings aswell.

I dont win as much as i did before, the game has become harder, but it dosent matter as i still have fun playing, alot more fun i might add.

This is a more balanced version of the game I have no idea how anyone can think differently, so what if you have problems killing the spinning N00bs just learn too counter it that is what have always been said when someone whines about the DFA or whatever.

I dont know about you but i bought this game because i wanted too have fun with it, not go out on servers just too 0wn people.
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Old 05-11-2002, 07:59 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by nemis111
Would all the people think that the patch haters are whining because they cant spam dfa, STFU and STICK YOUR HEADS IN YOUR ASSES, THE FKING GAME IS BORING !!!!! IT HAS LOST SOOO MUCH OF IT"S RUSH, TENSION AND ABOVE ELSE FUN !! I swear it was the best Ive ever played online EVER, and now I FCKING HATE IT, I FCKING HATE IT. IT"S LIKES SOMEONE GIVING U PURE BLISS AND THE SUDDENTLY DECIDED TO GIVE YOU A FCK IN THE ASS. IT"S NOT FUN ANYMORE< GET THAT THRU YOU THICK SKULLS !!!!!! I"TS NOT ABOUT SPAMMING DFA< I"TS ABOUT THE GAME BEING A FKING WRECK NOW< BORING BORING FKING BORING!!!!!!

BRING BACK 1.02 !!!

BRING BACK 1.02 !!!
that's exactly how I feel. it's not about no DFA, or about newbies owning, or about people being able to spam, or about backstabbing. it's about the saber combat feeling like I'm playing in mud and just not being fun anymore. Obviously I could get good at any game given adequate time. I just choose the games I want to get good at by how much fun they are to play, how much they draw me in. Quake 3 did that to me like no other game. It required total concentration at all times. JK2 did that for me UNTIL 1.03. Now I just can't really be bothered to play hard because I don't enjoy playing at all. I had my month in online gaming paradise, and then Raven out of nowhere took it away for no good reason.
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Old 05-11-2002, 10:56 AM   #105
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The patch has good and bad sides. Problem is, the bad sides are on subjects, never to be touched. Spoiling the fun.

At first, (if i play with force on) i played Dark Side, i played Duels, i used Yellow stance and played (mostly) in NF duels. And i was good (subjective). You see from that, i was a saberist, so my main focus lies on Saber Combat.

This is no whining post. You want a solution? Repatch and incorporate a button to change between 1.02 and1.03 whenever you like. Make it OPTIONAL.

Main problem is, that the patch has good and bad sides as stated above. I could live without the good things, but i absolutly cant live with the bad things.

Good things:

-DFA isnt that variable anymore. BUT it could had been changed with a mere hitbox correction, so the buried saber wouldnt do full damage. Overexaggerated move from Raven.
-Red stlye has a 2 chain combo now. Not that easy to pull out in actual combat, BUT it gives at least a chance on tactic.
-The mere standing attack (attacking without pressing directional keys) isnt randomized anymore. I still cant see why there were people complaining about hat, but hell, i am deseperate to get good things to post about the patch
-New maps. It is a good thing, BUT its just an add, IT IS NOT THE PATCH. So why do you patch lovers field it as positive aspect for the the patch?
-Absorb has finally some chance on tactical deployment (if the drainer has his sound turned off).
-Chat boxes and finally the ability to redo player settings without loosing you place in the duel listing.

Bad things:
-The autoblock or "keep the nOOb alive" feature is way overexaggerated. The blocking prepatch wasnt the best but it worked to some extent. I wished they would have added "a bit" more chance on blocking, but this now, is just plain stupid. More movie like? Nope, because there were no headless chickens in the movie.
-Saber Throw in NF duels. WTF!! Grats Raven. You still dont know the way of the exploit. Optional, ok (like force powers optional? Nice idea but THIS is NOT in the patch).
-The killing of the Yellow Style. Have you ever realized that the range of yellow is only then at full extent when you spin? Guess not. The yellow style lacks now tactical deployment and range. There is now only ONE (useless) combo with yellow. Just holding the attack button is no combo peeps. I understand that this was done to boost the Blue style a bit more. Overexaggerated as allways. With the addition of one more special move to blue, this wouldnt have been neccessary. Just a special that can cover some area OR range at normal damage.
-Make MP like SP?? Hell nearly everyone who said that just wanted more special moves like the things the Reborn, Shadow Trooper and the named pulled on us. Did we get it? Of course not. We got a dead yellow style and autoblock (You played SP after this patch? Even in SP the autoblock isnt that extreme).
-More control. Lol, peeps. The moves and the Saber combat were perfectly under your control prepatch. No randomizing, nothing (only the standing attack). If you had trained a bit, you would have realized it. You have control now too, like before. But you loose it due to the high block chance and the resulting headless chicken combat.
-Heal and Drain. Gee i used the word too often, but IT IS OVEREXAGGERATED. Yes, both of them needed a nerf, but WTF, not that. Heal is a joke. Let Heal replenish about 35 HP for half the force bar. It would be still useful AND is counterable. Drain should just drain less. Not 200% but about 125% to 150% of the used force to drain someone. You could still deploy it, but it wouldnt be overpowered.
-Guns and the Ammo problem. I hate guns, but THIS was just plain stupid. CTF is just complete crap now, and the only weapon that would have a right to be nerfed was the Imp Repeater and his secondary fire rate.

There are still things to be changed, not even touched by this patch. Push/Pull kills are too easy and opens you without ANY defense. And the janitor action. Backstab, just shouldnt do that much damage, or make it blockable (but more difficult to block).

Rant about this, flame me or do what you like. But try to be constructive and think about it.

And for you who say "Just use the old version if you dont like the new". Think about what you say. All new things which will be released, will be based on the latest version. So it is our concern to have a good compatible game. And in my opinon, the game isnt very god atm.

Regards,

+ManusDei+[JDG]
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Old 05-11-2002, 01:08 PM   #106
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Didn't even bother to read the whole thread, but got one question:

Who's whining now?

Former DFA spammers, cuz they no longer can exploit bugged hit detection and have virtually still sabers doing max damage?

Oh no, they made the game more realistic and now you actually have to learn some skills to compete! What is the world coming to?!

Sure, there are some headless chickens out there, but to claim that all blue or yellow stancers are just swinging their sabers around hoping for a miracle is plain ignorance. I use yellow exclusively and I know what I'm doing. The far biggest reason why I'd sometimes lose to a 1.02 DFA spammer is cuz I'd lose my patience with this boring one-hit/evading spammer and make some foolish mistake.

And on the issue of crying 'whiner'; it's just plain sad to see people coming to boards to proclaim all having a complaint as whiners. It's easy to brand someone a whiner and abusive, cuz you're simply playing on the common perception that no one wants to be branded a whiner and they'll immediately back off or continue by forming a flamefest between the lot of you. A flamefest that will (virtually per definition) lead to nada and zip.

Calling whiner is what I call a shallow crowd pleaser. You see these often in political debates with an audience. When one party is backed into a argumentative corner they will use some witty remark or cliché, which the audience swallow whole and suddenly that party has the backup of the audience without really having said anything of relevance. They put themselves on top by belittling the opponent, not by counterarguing.

Now, while abusers of shallow crowd pleasing should be blamed more so should the audience letting themselves be manipulated by these shallow crowd pleasers.

Knowing that this post will change nothing I am

Jubatus
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Old 05-11-2002, 01:58 PM   #107
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I like the new patch.
Why do I like it?
It makes the game more what I imagined it to be like.
When I first saw this game I thought it would be cool to replicate those long saber battles we saw in the movies. And it did it in singleplayer, but not multiplayer. Instead people would run forward and swipe and run backward till somebody died. That was gay. Now it's more like what I saw from the movies.
Maybe it requires less skill now...but you know what? I don't give a flyin fuc|< about all these l33t cl4n d3wds who have m4d sk1llz. I play cause it's neat. It wasnt neat before the patch, it is now.
Boo hoo your little league is gh3y now, lets all cry cause everyone cares about how good we are right? My heart bleeds.

And to those who disagree with me, may a pox of rancid blisters sprout on every open patch of skin hanging on your wretched sleleton, you worthless son of a lepritic whore and a french jahovas witness.
lol
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Old 05-11-2002, 07:42 PM   #108
flippo
 
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i love the new patch! not for it's content, but for what it's done to the 1.02 servers. ever since it's come out, the 1.02 servers have been a joy to play on. no more spamming DFA, no more drain/grip whoring, i love it! just skilled people fighting fairly and nicely.

THANK YOU 1.03 YOU'VE MADE 1.02 EVEN BETTER!
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Old 05-12-2002, 02:14 AM   #109
MARKUSPRIME
 
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Yes 1.03 sucks its noob auto block lame(whiffle ball bat) saber combat patch that lets no skilled players live longer . I still own their sorry arse tho.
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